Ideal power cord lengths?

Anyone else done A-B tests of like cables of different lengths?

It’s a power cord thread; welcome to the party, lol!

@1971gto455ho , no, that stuff is not what makes the real difference.  I’ll let you in on my secret:  all the magic all is in my beefy 10AWG AC lines…. WAY better than wimpy 12 or 14 AWG!

Well, the results were done with a blind test, so not so subjective actually!

You can try the test as well, if you are interested. You may very well not have the same results as me, given differences in systems. Had I started out upgrading cables before my amp and speaker upgrades, I highly doubt I’d notice the difference in power cables or USB cable lengths. Part of the journey when you realize it makes a difference, objectively through blind tests. Some will never get there and that’s okay.

There’s one thread on here where a dude was going on with all the usual arguments - what about all the wire leading up to your house, and the non-audiophile approved wire in your wall (actually I do have audiophile approved 10AWG twisted wire in my walls, lol)… Anyways everyone challenged him to try a demo at his local dealer going between power cords, and to his credit, he actually did, he said “I don’t know how it makes a difference, but it does.” And impressively, he said “I was wrong.” Again, not everyone will get there.

This subject is like religious fundamentalism, and it’s highly amusing how worked up people get.  

Apologies for giving you all a bad name, lol!!  

I definitely hear perfection, mostly due to my 10AWG wire I am certain ;)

10AWG wire over 14AWG costs an extreme, totally outlandish premium of $150 extra, for my lower resistance and greater access to instantaneous peak current. Sounds fantastic!

ooh, poked the bear methinks…

Regarding getting back to enjoying the music…. I’m actually at the point where I am enjoying considering how to improve my system, as opposed to stressing over certain aspects of my system that sounded bad to me, and not knowing how to resolve those issues. But as I am conducting critical listening analysis now, and going through blind A/B tests (with family participation - they don’t actually care but they think it’s fun when they are otherwise bored), I am finding more often now that all of a sudden I’m sucked back into the music. That happened the other night and I stayed up all night re-discovering the back catalogues of some of my favourite artists, which entirely due to my 10 AWG wire, @1971gto455ho , are now presented in an entirely different light…. ;)

@tablejockey, I actually know of specific people doing this in the US! Or at least, convincingly local power companies to upgrade their pole transformer at their cost! I do draw the line somewhere, and some point long before this type of upgrade….

That said, I hear it definitely helps!

I’m not planning on going out and buying more cables of differing lengths. It’s more just a curiosity to me, based on a few experiences I noted above. Seriously, if you have a highly resolving system with upgraded cables, especially speaker cables, if you can manage to get a high quality 1m USB cord and the same cord in a 2m version, I think you will be shocked at the difference.

As I said I’m not stressing at all over my system or the next upgrade. I’m totally happy with my system, to the extent I want to learn more about it, the impact of components including cable lengths. Looks like no one really has had the direct experience of objective comparisons. I just love obsessing over this stuff.  I’m FINALLY through with always trying to fix some sort of sonic fault in my system. Any change from now on would only be to improve something, rather than to fix something, which is just awesome.  That said I’m just mesmerized by how awesome my system sounds as-is.  All thanks to that 10AWG wire in my wall, surely!!!

@bigtwin , The end of the chain is the most important. It’s a filter for all the noise on the public grid. Both for THD noise coming into your system and eventually manifesting in your speakers. And as a blocker for noise generated by your gear that goes back out to your AC lines which your other gear can pick up. The theory is that the longer the end cable feeding your gear, the greater the filtering effect. Which at a point becomes detrimental…

THD is measurable with meters, and it doesn’t magically disappear - it shows up in your speakers if you don’t deal with it with conditioners and/or power cords….

I know it’s an unpopular concept for those who have not conducted blind tests…. On a relatively resolving system, with good quality speaker wire, that is. Otherwise you may very well hear no difference in which case your priorities should be elsewhere…

As an aside, I do think the prices for premium cabling is stupid…. But I guess it’s simply an effect of supply and demand.

Not trying to convince anyone, at all.  This debate has been raging for 25 year or longer!  I doubt it will ever be put to rest with consensus reached.

Wow @pennfootball71 , thanks.  Impressed you have those recommended lengths by vendor at your fingertips!

Would you know of the ideal length for Audioquest? And, how those recommended lengths might vary if you have one cord for a conditioner and a second from the conditioner to your components?  Would it be the vendor’s recommended length, or  half that because there are effectively two in series?

No amp will draw more than a few amps continuously. You definitely have RMS current covered with your full house of 12AWG! And your breakers won’t trip as all they care about is RMS. Heck 20A breakers are overkill for RMS current demands of your amp!

Seems odd that Audioquest rates their conditioner models by the amount of current they can provide instantaneously for up to 25ms, with their top TWO models able to supply up to 90A for up to 25ms? Very odd, hmmm, I wonder why….

Again @1971gto455ho you have RMS current demands of your system totally covered, no issues there! Instantaneous (peak) current must totally be made up by AudioQuest as a marketing ploy, I’m certain! You’ve convinced me.  Dammit, wish I didn’t spend those extra few bucks on my beefy, low-resistance, high-current capable 10AWG wire… ;)

@ghdprentice , finally, someone who tried the comparison!  Thank you….  What I am also interested in however is how power cord length factors in when you have a second cord that powers a conditioner.  For your test, were you testing your Hurricanes connected to a conditioner (and if so how long is the cord feeding it?), or were you connecting your Hurricanes direct to wall?

I’m curious as to whether 1m to conditioner and 1m to component is ideal, or if 2m in both spots would be better (or worse).  Thanks again.  Good to hear some results after all the bluster (which I admit to have found to be amusing) on this thread.

Thanks again @ghdprentice , and your results are consistent with what I’ve seen others report.

When I was trialing the Niagara 5000 I definitely sound my amp preferred to be plugged directly into my second dedicated line as well. But I ended up with a Torus RM-20 and it’s better with everything including my amp plugged into that.

I guess my question with conditioners is if the positive effect of a single 2m cord is reproduced by two 1m cords with a conditioner in the middle. And, if having two 2m cords with a conditioner is too much cord and makes things worse. It doesn’t sound like you have the components needed to perform such a test.  But you answered the first part of my original post, so thanks again!

@ghdprentice , good luck. If you can swing it, I do recommend the Firebird or Dragon cords. Hurricanes do sound very good as well, but I find there is more air and more of a 3D presentation of instruments and vocals with the higher end cords. That said, I found no other differences other than that between the highest two cords and the Hurricanes.

I’ll ask my dealer for some demo cords, but I try not to do this unless I intend to buy. I doubt they will agree, as in the past Audioquest has had to manufacture their higher end demo cords just so I could try them (which I ended up purchasing).

I completely get why it’s tough to make sense of things when it comes to HiFi. I get it; I have an engineering background, and nothing in HiFi makes sense. In this hobby common sense does not apply, and is often inaccurate. The fact that a USB cable transmitting 1’s and 0’s can make difference is absolutely preposterous to me, even moreso than the fact that power cords matter. A system assembled through a practical, common sense approach will not get you far, in my experience.

To me this hobby is all about using your ears, preferably through objective, double-blind testing of one component at a time, on the right type of system that will reveal differences the component being tested makes, is what ultimately matters in this hobby. It is all that matters in this hobby. Other than your budget!

it is important to validate results through double blind testing if at all possible.  If not possible, I know enough to distrust my own perceptions enough to really question what I think I am hearing, and only make an assessment after many weeks of comparisons.  Many prefer to use a new component for weeks or even months, before going back to validate the difference it makes.  A/B testing is SO difficult because human auditory memory is absolutely terrible.  By the time you’ve connected a new component your perception of what you just heard before will absolutely have shifted.  It’s even worse if someone talks to you between tests.  That’s why double blind testing is so efficient and effective.  If you’ve not gone through this process, you are left only with common sense, and the rules that govern our world do not apply to HiFi.  Those who apply common sense will disagree, of course!

Early in your journey, when you are stretching just to get into what may be barely considered “HiFi”, speaking from my own experience at least, your mindset is just on obtaining the gear you can barely afford. The last thing you want to hear is that you should allocate a portion of your budget for cabling, including power cords..  It’s far more convenient to believe it’s ridiculous that power cords have an effect, and it IS a ridiculous concept.

I believe this is partly what has driven people to be so passionate about this debate for so many years, using the same common-sense based arguments that don’t apply, and passionately doubling down while refusing to find out for themselves by doing a simple blind test in their local HiFi shop. It’s far more convenient, budget wise, to believe that aftermarket cords make no difference. Very few people won’t hear an improvement with premium cords in a blind test when they actually get to doing it, and you absolutely don’t need to be an audiophile to hear the difference (my wife and daughter hear obvious differences but couldn’t care less).

I mentioned already but for me the stress of figuring out how to solve my system issues related to some sonic aspect that troubles me is FINALLY over. I find now it is more relaxing, and in fact highly enjoyable, to consider how I might improve my system. But the beauty of where I am now is that I’m in no hurry to do anything, because I think my system sounds fantastic. In fact, I already have a mix of 2m and 3m cords already! So no rabbit holes necessary.

I asked this question purely out of genuine curiosity to see if anyone had experienced comparing like power cords of varied lengths, and what effects there might be…. @ghdprentice did the comparison and he found he preferred the longer cord, while also confirming what others have said about the sonic differences that power cord lengths make, when used in highly resolving systems like @ghdprentice has (beautiful system btw….).

I suppose I didn’t start the thread for advice on my system, but rather simply to share experiences and maybe learn something about our hobby from other.

Next up for another highly controversial subject:  isolation and/or vibration control!

@lalitk , I agree, I am going to tackle room treatment next, before dealing with vibration/coupling.  But I might start considering vibration control and learning more about soon as I simply plan to engage a qualified expert to specify how to treat my room.  I think my room is more complicated than most as there are angles, open walls, high ceilings, and it’s not simply a rectangle like most rooms.  TBH I’m not noticing any issues with my room, but I know it can be improved.  I’ve had terrible rooms before for my system but not this time.

I love how this cable (and in particular power cord) debate has raged on for decades….  It seems that both sides always end up talking down to the opposing side.  All over whether or not you believe a power cord makes a difference in your HiFi system, lol…. Oh well, human nature.  No wonder humans have fought wars for thousands of years. @mahlman , I think you are on the right track.  There is a perception of elitism that people probably find distasteful, causing the drive to be condescending and judgemental.

You are also correct that I am compensating for poor source files.  Lucky guess!  But I would present an alternate way of looking at this.  I want the convenience of streaming via Tidal HiFi and Roon, but I also want quality.  As such you are right, I’ve purchased two items to equalize my streaming performance to that of local high-res files.  The two components are the Innuos PhoenixUSB Reclocker and the Innuos PhoenixNet Ethernet isolation switch.  These devices (not cables) offer me the convenience of streaming combined with the quality of local high-res files.

@lalitk , I know it will make a huge difference, but thank you anyways! I am also considering what I can put in front of my TV while listening to music..

@lalitk , I know it will make a huge difference, but thank you anyways! I am also considering what I can put in front of my TV while listening to music..

I just read the other thread on the merits of lifting cables off the floor with purchased or DIY cable risers - it’s even more contentious than this thread!

I plan to TRY using risers at some point, will attempt to do a blind test somehow, and then decide whether I believe it makes a difference or not in my system.

I will not blindly assume it’s silly, even if the concept is totally loony. Ears are the best judge, but part of the hobby is to work through any possible bias that might influence what we think we are hearing or not hearing. Bias is definitely a factor to contend with; I’ve encountered it myself and subsequently had to alter my assessments. Usually this only lasts for a few days when it happens though.

@ghdprentice , good point, and I agree, everything is additive. Might be worth just installing the cable lifters. That said, I’m still curious as to whether or not they might help.  I know there is consensus (of those who have actually done the comparisons) that cable lifters work, but I’m curious to hear the differences myself.

I’ve also read that vibration control for components do change things, but can impact tonal balance, and not always in a good way. There are so many anti-vibration products and different schools of thought. I do know enough to be aware that the mass of the component does factor into the equation, with ideal vibration being a function of mass, stiffness, and dampening.

@mirolab , as I noted I’ve not conducted a test of different lengths of identical model power cords so I cannot speak to any differences. I was simply asking if anyone had actually done this test. Quite by accident, I did find that longer USB cords are obviously superior than 1m or shorter ones. I verified this through blind tests after, which was quite unnecessary as the differences were so obvious in my system. Tested two Audioquest Diamonds of different lengths and Nordost Valhalla 2’s of different lengths. I simply asked if anyone had done this test with power cords as I’ve read from a few sources that it matters.

@ghdprentice was the only person who actually did the test as a result of this thread, and found that longer cords improve the soundstage, which is consistent with what I’ve read elsewhere.

As for power cords in general, as vastly entertaining as it is to endlessly discuss whether they make a difference (for decades!) there is a very simple alternative to answer this burning existential question for all members of humanity who are privileged enough to be able to get sample cords from a dealer. Go try a test, yourself, in a system that is configured to be moderately revealing. I don’t have stats but I know only a few who have done this test who can’t hear a difference. And you don’t need to be an audiophile to hear the difference.

That said, the discussion is still fun, albeit utterly non-productive. The only way to resolve this is to see if you can hear a difference. When I think back to when I was a bit younger, I too didn’t want to think about the differences a power cord could make, even if I actually knew they played a pretty significant role in the performance of a system (from a test I did when I was young). But I didn’t WANT to think about it because my entire focus was on being able to afford amps and speakers. So even though I knew there was a difference I lived with stock cords for many years. I have premium power cords now, and while a wouldn’t say I consider them to have the effect of a major component upgrade, the improvement they make in my system is not small.

Many audiophiles refuse to engage on this topic as the discussion is futile if people aren’t willing to try a test for themselves.  But I get a kick out of the discussion….

I always take info from vendors with a grain of salt. I had thought Nordost recommends 2m power cords but I could be mistaken. I once found a link on these boards to a Nordost Q&A that lists recommended lengths for all types of cables. The PS Audio guy also recommends 2m as “the sweet spot” and said he has a number of theories as to why, inferring that longer than this can be worse.

Regarding pricing, yeah, all HiFi vendors are seemingly making ridiculous margins. I just bought some Herbie’s Cone/Spike Decoupling gliders for my speaker spikes to sit on. They are considered the “budget” option for these types of products (but people report positive results). But for the life of me I can’t see how these would cost a manufacturer any more than a few dollars more than a standard set of furniture sliders from Home Depot. Cable companies get picked on but it’s all types of HiFi vendors really. On the flip side the HiFi market is minuscule. For anyone to be in such a low volume market, it would only make sense if the margins were exorbitant with the small number of people in the market willing to pay.

Of note, yes, the Herbie’s gliders do seem to make an easily noticeable difference. I tried putting them on one speaker and not the other.  That made the differences really obvious.  But I don’t have experience with similar products and I’m guessing others are effective as well.