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Hi Bache, When I first saw Stenheim with their Aluminium boxes which btw are not as inert as Magico, I thought sterile colorless sound but the sound is alive with great tone and it sounded closest to live music. Before Stenheim my favorite was Acapella Cellini. The strings to can sense the rosin. Same room right beside Alumine 3 the famous Sonus Faber $20k made with solid wood sounded dark and closed in more like dead haha. My point is I want cake it doesnāt matter what you use to make it, as I know you like bamboo which is fine, but the speaker will be judged on its final sound into the room. I never heard your speakers hope they are doing well. Btw I heard QLN no beuno!āŗļø |
The QLN Signature 5 Monitors at $18K can hang with some of the very best speakers made ! https://www.parttimeaudiophile.com/2022/05/07/best-of-axpona-2022-axpona-2022/ |
The all new Qln Signature 5 speakers never heard these speakers yet but I will now ! https://www.positive-feedback.com/show-reports/axpona-2022-my-six-favorite-rooms/ Ā Feedback from Part Time Audiophile on the Qln Signature 5 speakers were really good ! They are going to review these Qln Signature 5 speakers now ! |
One of my friends went to Axpona 2022 show and listened to the all new KMD Orchestalls Reference speakers and was amazed by their sound saying they were the closest to Live Music that he has ever heard in his life and he has heard a lot of very very high priced Reference Systems too ! We are waiting for the USA to get some Dealers here to listen to them a lot more. If not we will go listen to these speakers at Axpona 2023 www.kmdeng.co.kr/KMD/elementor-1042/ |
Many of you mention MBL. There is also BayZ Audio, according to some one of the most natural sounding models. And designer is a scientist.A hardcore scientist. Now, I bet none of you heard Zeta Zero Orbitals! Their designer is sound engineer, professional one. Makes his own drivers with specs way beyond any other drivers. At least subwoofers and omni ribbons. Midrange, perhaps there is some competition like AER. Its just that he totally does not care about marketing.... so you dont hear about these speakers, almost nowhere. So with Orbitals we have tubus cabinets - best shape for a cabinet, aside from a sphere. These speakers can take unreal amount of current.... so their distortion is almost nil at any volume.Ā Capable of filling with (undistorted) sound the entire, full size! stadium. All that with a pair of towers you can put in mid sized room. The mass of their drivers is lower than MBLs. Sensitivity is way higher 92dB so they can be driven by tube amps. While MBLs.... not really. Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā |
milhomesI heard the stenheims alumine 3, Rockport atria II, Borresen 02, Magico A3, TAD E1tx from AXPONA 2022 My preference is Borresen 02 >= TAD E1tx = Rockport >= Stenheims >> Magico Regarding to theĀ holographic sound, Borresen and TAD are absolutely the most impressive one, with Borresen slightly better for its incredible small size |
... Why Perfection Doesn't MatterĀ Ā Klipsch LA SCALA Heritage 2021 Ā https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MULb81Fp5eY&t |
Here is the Ohm Guruās opinion. Ā https://ohmspeaker.com/news/top-10-greatest-speakers/ Mbl makes the list.Ā |
There are so many speakers out there it boggles the mind. I find it helpful to group them in categories by technology; Dynamic, horn, planar magnetics, ESL and Line Source. I think everyone should go out of their way to listen to examples of each and decide what kind of sound they like. Compare them with the experience of live music in various venues. Some people do not care to emulate the live experience. Whatever. Decide if you prefer the large soundstage of a line source vs the smaller one of a point source. Then compare open dipoles to enclosed speakers and finally horns to regular dynamic drivers. Many people choose speakers based on the amplifier they are using. The SET group does this. IMHO that is backward. You chose the amplifier to drive the loudspeakers you like. There are many decent loudspeakers out there. Most of them are enclosed dynamic speakers because they are the most commonly produced driver and can be reasonable sized. Any major "breakthroughs" are more likely to be marketing hype. It has all been done. The only significant new development of recent time is the use of more exotic materials in enclosures such as composite and aluminum. The prevalence of CAD mills makes this much easier to do without human labor. Wilson was the first to do this. I believe it was Dan D'Agostino who started using aluminum in subwoofer enclosures.Ā Ā |
kw6, you, avanti1960 (MBL), and mapman (Ohm Walsh), have got to hear the Muraudio PX speaker!!! Breath taking. https://www.muraudio.com/px1 audioman 58 - - - you`ve gotta get a life. Bose 901`s. No highs, no lows, must be a Bose. |
Boenicke (Switzerland) I've had various speakers over 30+ years (Linn, Naim, Neat, Harbeth, Sonus Faber, Proac, Spendor). My favourite from all these were the Sonus Faber Electra Amator II. Since 2015, I have settled forĀ Boenicke W8 (for a large room) and W5 (for modest sized room). With descent electronics (I use Devialet 250 Expert Pro, Nordost cabling) they are both excellent. Sound quality, ergonomics, aesthetics. |
My first question to Allan Moulton would be: how many live music events/venues, has your 10 year old son attended/visited?Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā The only Magnepan that could be fairly compared (to the Stenheims), would be the 30.7, given the prices.
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@kw6Ā , The modern one way SoundLabs are a way different beast from what you have mentioned. They are more efficient, will go very loud, are virtually impossible to break and have a near perfect dispersion pattern minimizing room interaction. Read the reviews. I just wish it was easier for people to hear them. As far as detail, transient response and distortion levels are concerned they are farĀ beyond any dynamic speaker system.Ā richop, I really like Magnepans and have set up many of them up for other people. I owned Tympanys for two years but IMHO anything smaller than the 3.7i is not worth listening to and none of them come remotely close to a full range ESL. The best ESLs are not anything. They are not bright or dull or fatiguing. They are whatever you hook up to them. Driven by appropriate equipment ESLs are magic. Magnepans are great speakers, better than many if not most dynamic speakers. They punch way above their price point but they are not even remotely close to the best full range , line source ESL. I should say that the tweeter in the 20.7 is the best tweeter made. It just plain sparkles.Ā |
you know if you were to buy those speakers they would not come close to what you heard in that store & no matter how much Ā $ you spend cables & place meant location can make Ā or brake any big$ speaker i still love my old THIEL 3.6 Ā With all drivers upgrade Ā Need Big power amp to drive theses Ā they Blow Any Wilson puppies out of the box have fun greg |
mahalkita I have to agree with your assessment of the durability of the apogee speakers, the only thing that is finally getting bad on mine is the foam. |
It is always fun to see what everyone says when a question like "what is the best (fill in the blank)?" Ā We all are very passionate about what we love and it is always different. Ā It is like trying to get total agreement on what is the best beer or wine. Ā There will never be any agreement and that is a good thing. Ā It makes our hobby exciting.Ā |
Iām happy for the O.P. in 2 ways: he found speakers that thrill him; and he apparently can afford their price. Those 2 things donāt often happen together! Side comment about the Ohm Walsh speakers mentioned above: one of the many pleasures of Prime Videoās exception policier, BOSCH (based on Michael Connellyās books) is the vintage stereo gear scattered around his glass-enclosed LR with the astounding view of L.A. This includes Ohm Walsh speakers (pegged them the second I 1st glimpsed them). There arenāt many acclaimed omni designs around, and that is one of them. |
mijostyn having owned apogee duetta signatures for almost 30 years and now have divas from truesoundworksaudio since 5 years I do not agree at all with your assumption that apogee speakers are sensitive to failure. I moved the duettas from Saudi Arabia where I bought them to Germany and now to the U.S. without any problem or any failure. The duettas were rebuild once by truesoundworksaudio after about 15 years with better quality parts which were not available when apogee designed those speakers. On the contrary I had sound labs which did not survive one transport inside the same country, they are super sensitive in comparison, the foil easily rips and I had to bring them to Utah to get them fixed. After living with apogee for so many years sound labs sounded super slow and boring, dynamics are just not there at all in comparison.Any box speaker no matter how big or expensive using normal cones will not and can never approach the speed and dynamics and resolution of a ribbon planar speaker - but thats just my opinion and many other people will say thats complete bs because they like different qualities in a speaker and thats fine. For the original poster: buy what you like and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, for me they would be a no go, I would not even listen to them.I visited a showroom and they had super expensive speakers (I think made by rockport and wilson) with ultra expensive gear connected to them - they sounded super clean and super nice and super boring. If I listen to my divas and close the eyes I think the musicians are in my living room and I can touch them -Ā but listen to a box speaker while sounding nice and ultra clean they always sound like a box speakerĀ and like hifi and not like music. Its maybe like listening to a Ortofon SPU or another super expensive super clean and thin sounding super boring other cartridge - thats just me and to each his own! So for me I will keep my apogees till the end of time and my children will inherit them some day. |
@mapmanĀ I absolutely love MBL. I've heard many of their systems and the 101Extreme at least three times. Just incredible. But we are talking at least a million so it is also out of the question. @kw6Ā No one's mentioned it, but you probably know. Burmester is also amazing gear in its own right. I have a TAD system with E-1 speakers and the big Burmester (909 I believe) with their near top of the line preamp and an amazing table bested the TAD amp/preamp I have (with the E-1s), but it also is beyond my means. Burmester is killer but I think not all that many have heard it. If you don't have Burmester gear, that should be taken into consideration and will your current gear synergize like Burmester does withĀ Stenheim? BTW, would really like to hearĀ Stenheim, maybe some day. |
Clearly, there is no ābestā speaker or, in my opinion, piece of equipment. Ā Iāve always been happy with a piece being āin the discussionā. Ultimately, there are too many variables in a system. But, most importantly, the individualās perception or definition of what āgoodā sound is will ultimately determine which speaker one defines as best. The kind of glowing reviews the OP is assigning to the Stenheims are the kind of reviews I often hear about my Zellatons. For my ears- and frankly thatās all that matters to me- my Zellatons posses a ālife-likeā quality that is very hard to achieve with other speakers/ systems. Ā To that end, I am thrilled. Ā Are they the ābestā? Probably not... but in our hobby ābestā is actually āfavoriteā. Favorite is an unchallengeable position. My favorite ice cream brand is āxā. How can one argue what I call my favorite?Ā |
Having owned Apogee Diva's for six years I can tell you that I have never been so vexed by a loudspeaker. But at the bottom of it all is ribbon speakers are easy to damage and very unreliable. Even Magnepan's vaunted ribbon tweeter is subject to blowing. They have an ongoing tweeter replacement program. This issue was one of the reasons Apogee died. If you look online you will notice a that replacement ribbons are sold alongside ribbon tweeters. Replacing a 6 foot tweeter ribbon is quite an experience. Only the factory can replace a woofer ribbon. Because there are great and very reliable ESLs available there is no reason to go for ribbon speakers. I haven't heard of any apogee ribbons blowing, it's usually the foam that encases them under the clamps and frames that deteriorates and then they buzz. The foam on the tweeter also deteriorates and then the tension isn't proper causing way to much movement of the ribbon. |
I would definitely say any product must have a proper shootout against mbl before it can lay any rightful claim to being the best regardless of cost. The best demo I have ever heard (largely as a result of soundstage and imaging beyond anything Iāve ever heard otherwise), was mbl by a large margin....not even close....but that involved a very extensive and custom showroom setup that most would be challenged to ever reproduce at home. I know the same dealer never came close at audio shows I attended with the exact same gear. That was one demo at a dealer.Ā Ā How would they hold up for daily listening use at home?Ā Ā One would expect well BUT.....that showroom was a BIG part of the results which were off the chart...... |
I always look for highly recommended gear Ā at shows and dealers. Always looking to reaffirm my personal benchmark for good sound. Then comes the question is it worth it (to me)? Also is it practical for me? Or am I fitting a square peg in a round hole at home? Always looking. Always listening. Canāt wait until things can get more back to normal for that. |
I guess it's getting to be hard times for Magico. Ā ;)Ā The problem is when the OP asserts "the best" with little qualification, which is typical. Suggesting the other brands are "hifi" in comparison shows a fawning adoration that is not representative of reality. Ā What, he heard it in one system, in comparison to others in a different system, or the same system? That is supposed to allow a proper conclusion of "the best"? I beg to differ.Ā Properly stated, the OP should have said something on the order of, "I preferred this or that speaker in comparison in one system to these others..." It's nonsense to declare that a particular speaker is superior based on one listening.Ā Want to make a more definitive announcement of which is "the best"? Put up about a dozen, or even 18 rigs, and compare them all. Optimize each rig and see what you think. Of course, the average audiophile does not do this, but I do when reviewing. That is how you find out which is the best speaker.Ā Further, when doing that, you discover that all speakers have particular characteristics and flaws, and cannot fully capture all aspects of sound reproduction. The more speakers handled extensively, the less one is prone to make such grand assertions as one speaker being "the best".Ā But, this is a hobby fraught with emotion and preference, so such threads will continue on. Ā :)Ā The real irony will be if the OP saves up, buys the speaker, then when he gets it home, it doesn't sound nearly the same as in the shop. There is a strong possibility of that, and of the OP having to spend quite a bit in order to get a preferable result with the speakers at home. Worse, he could get it home and find that his current speakers do some aspects of sound quality better. That could be a problem. Many have thought they found the perfect speaker, only to find out that it's just not that easy. It's not too much fun when you declare to the world you've found "the One," then when you acquire it, learn that it's got issues with your rig and you'll have to drop a lot more money to optimize it. Oh, well, that's part of the hobby, too, at times. Ā :) |
Ohm is often affectionately referred to as the poor mans mbl or German Physics. Iāve heard all three. They are all cut from a similar and very unique Omni cloth. Ohm goes the extra mile to make that not just affordable for more but also more practical to place in more peopleās rooms for good results. also ohm is completely home grown in Brooklyn NY so there is that. Ā |
