You have a REF 3 pre-amp and a 110 amp. All from Audio Research. I would investigate a used Ph6, Ph8, REF 2SE or 2 phono stage. They would match very well with your existing gear and sound great. The turntable, arm and cartridge on the other hand. Well, that's a different story. Hard choices and totally dependent on what your budget is. But remember, there are a lot of very nice used turntable/arm combinations out there. enjoy |
Dear @jaym759: The analog alternative is the more imperfect way to listen MUSIC and due to those inherent medium imperfections is way hard task to achieve good quality performance. The issue is not to have a some one that help in the overall analog rig set up but that each audiophile must be learn by his self and in that learning time we have more falls down experiences than success. That's means not only time consuming but means spend higher money too. It is way easy for a newcomer to make several mistakes especially in the begining like you because you really don't have any knowledge level on the whole subject that can help you to evaluate in the rigth way all the advises/recomendations/opinions coming from other analog audiophiles/audio distributors/reviewers/manufacturers and the like. Today the digital alternative puts any one nearer and truer to the recording and from live MUSIC. I'm a MUSIC lover with over 7K LPs but I accept the digital superiority at today technology levels and enjoy it too. If you want to go ahed is up to you. The TT/tonearm advise @fsonicsmith gave you is really good. Read here about: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/gem-dandy-polytable/?page=3 G. Merril is a very well regarded designer and Jelco is a manufacturer that between other makes tonearms for Ortofon, Audioquest, Koetsu ( vintge. ) Sumiko. Jelco is not a TT manufacturer rookie " as many gentlemans here could think. In the other side the worst place to use tube technology is precisely in a phono stage nd it cn be proved easily. Forgeret biased tube lovers or biased tube mnufacturers. If you goes for tube units this will be your first huge mistake. For years I used it, not any more and for very good reasons. Btw, how many LPs already own? which are your MUSIC/audio priorities through your system.? what are you looking to achieve? R. |
Again thanks to ALL of you for responding to my question. I am getting quite an education and hopefully make some better choices going forward. I will be having help setting up the table from a local pro and learn more from him so that I can manage future tweaks better. I will post my choices for follow up. |
Regarding the phono section: A good phono section will reduce the number of ticks and pops you hear without curtailing bandwidth. An excellent turntable to consider is the Technics SL1200G. IMO its weakness is its arm, but its arm is competitive with many high end audio tonearms. But if you want to put a better arm on it, it can be done. The 'table part is very nearly state of the art- the platter is damped, the plinth is rigid and damped, and the platter is one of the most speed stable made anywhere at any price. Regarding arms and cartridges: the ability of the arm to track the cartridge is far more important than the choice of cartridge! So pay attention to that compatibility aspect and you will be rewarded. |
1 bpolletti! Just because the venerable 103 was designed back in 1962 doesn't make it a mediocre piece of cr*p! And the venerated Ortofon SPU's are even older! No, the stock 103 sounds fine and will do the job (play records). Upgrades are available (new stylus/cantilever, wood and metal bodies ... ) for far less than the cost of a new "higher end" cartridge!I'm just trying to save someone else from the anguish of my own mistakes. I am 59 and grew up with vinyl in the 70's, got out of vinyl in '84 and then back in around 2008. When I bought the Pro-Ject RPM-5SE, I had no clue what I was doing. I heard crackling that in fact was coming from a defective switch connector in my preamp (due to not using the input selector for so many years-my input was always my CD player) and I thought it had to be a loose or defective cartridge pin connector and I managed to snap off a pin on the factory-provided Blue Point Special. Pan forward to my next deck which was a VPI Classic purchased "blind" from Galen Carol Audio who recommended that I buy it from him with a Benz Glider SL and a Moon Audio LP5.3. All good gear though I have moved on mostly. But I abused the crap out of that Benz Glider while oafishly trying to adjust the unipivot arm on that deck. I never got good sound out of the VPI Classic teamed up with the Benz Glider. I watched Fremer's set-up video a dozen times and tried everything I could, and bought a Fozgometer and a test record but I don't think the Benz Glider and the original JMW10.5 arm were a good match and I can say that because I have installed that same Benz Glider (re-tipped by Peter Lederman) in a 12" Reed 3P and it sounds phenomenal. You gotta learn to walk before you can run. You don't need to get fancy/expensive analogue gear to get great sound. You do need to get stuff that matches up well, is foundationally solid, and you need to set it up right. There is not stronger argument for brick and mortar audio stores than setting up a turntable for newbies. And there is no stronger argument for an easily adjustable tonearm than the fact that newbies need to learn by doing. That VPI JMW10.5 had tiny recessed allen key grub screws that were awkward to access and needed to be loosened and than re-tightened for VTA and the idea of adjusting azimuth by turning the egg-shaped counterweight or trying to rotate the lateral counterweight ring all the while seeing your arm canted over to one side when your Fozgometer showed balanced cross-talk was a horrendous experience. I still have a VPI Prime with 3D arm and by then the arm became a bit easier to adjust by design and by virtue of my experience, but this is why I say stay away from VPI unipivots as your first decent deck. Unless you are going to have a local pro set it up for you. And after this very long screed let me say this; that Gem Dandy Polytable properly set up with a Denon D103R and a Manley Chinook can sound glorious-far better than a VPI Avenger with Lyra Delos and Herron Audio VTPH-2A that is NOT optimally set-up and the margin between "properly set-up" and not "properly set-up" gets finer and finer as you move up the ladder. |
-1 bpolletti! Just because the venerable 103 was designed back in 1962 doesn't make it a mediocre piece of cr*p! And the venerated Ortofon SPU's are even older! No, the stock 103 sounds fine and will do the job (play records). Upgrades are available (new stylus/cantilever, wood and metal bodies ... ) for far less than the cost of a new "higher end" cartridge! |
Despite Roberjerman's other wild and unfounded assertions, his Hana cartridge recommendation is a very good one - - very goo d performance for money, to be sure. The Technics SL1200 is also a killer good table (and OK arm, too). I use and like my ARC Ref 2SE for phono amplification - - it clearly bested the phono section in my VAC Ren Sig II. |
A D103R? Really? Why not a REAL cartridge like an AT OC9/II? The 103r can't compete at around the same price. D103 was only EVER an OK cartridge in the 70s. That's the 1970s. It's now a cult cart of sub-mediocre performance. Only after major overhauls by Soundsmith does the cart start to work up to it's original price point. |
Jaym759, you're more than welcome. The Jelco arms look dated but they outperform anything in their price range. It boils down to bearing quality, tolerance, construction and ease of adjusting VTA, SRA, VTF, azimuth, and zenith. Don't get me wrong, with a simple cartridge, getting VTA such that the arm tube is parallel with the record surface is going to take care of SRA. Which is why I would recommend you start out with a Denon D103R. For $450 you will get a great starter cartridge with a conical stylus which means great sound without a lot of fuss. Calling it a "starter" cartridge is unfair-it's an amazing cartridge period. Sure it is nothing to look at (true of every piecer of gear I've recommended and true of your VS110 (such a great amp though!) but trust me, once someone sits down and listens to music, no one is looking at their cartridge. So yeah, something like a Lyra Delos or Ortofon A95 is a beauty to look at but you can't see it from your listening chair, they must be set up perfectly due to their stylus shape, and one stray swipe of a finger and you're out $5K! |
"roberjerman1,274 posts09-03-2018 8:10am. ... In fact the phono cartridge will have a bigger effect on SQ than any phono stage. ... Only a snob would desire an expensive phono stage! ... Don’t you be so foolish to waste thousands on a phono stage!" Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just don’t get them confused with facts. |
@roberjerman " Only a snob would desire an expensive phono stage! Don’t you be so foolish to waste thousands on a phono stage!" That’s a ridiculous statement! |
Don't skimp on the phono stage. I learned first hand this summer when my failing 25 year old phono amp needed to be replaced. I tried an inexpensive phono stage, gave it weeks to burn-in but the music just seemed to dribble out of it. No dynamic swing, virtually no air around the notes and a small, unrealistic soundstage. After trading that in ($895 unit), I moved up to a ($2300) phono stage. Unbelievable difference. The biggest positive surprise was how it's dynamic headroom minimizes the impact of tics and pops on the music, Surface noise is just less noticeable. I am not saying there aren't very reasonably priced fine sounding units out there, the one I chose just couldn't get it done. |
Get a new Technics 1200 and a Hana SL mc cartridge. Phono stage can be a Project (very good value for the money). In fact the phono cartridge will have a bigger effect on SQ than any phono stage. Most of which all sound very good indeed! Only a snob would desire an expensive phono stage! Don't you be so foolish to waste thousands on a phono stage! |
You are asking a question that has no answer. Your choice of equipment only tells us a little about you. You like ARC, like tubes, and you either seek value in used equipment or haven't updated perfectly good gear in quite some time. I owned that VS110 until a year ago btw. And I now own a Ref 6 and Ref 150SE. So this meaningless answer is like throwing a dart with a blindfold on after having been spun around like a game of the pin the tail on the donkey. How do you know you will like vinyl? What's you game plan if you don't? If you have to ask such a broad question on a Board like this, how in heck do you plan to set it up correctly? Turntables mean cartridges and cartridges mean set-up expertise. I started out with a $1000 Pro-Ject RPM-5, then went to a VPI Classic and then to a VPI Prime and now I mostly used a hot-rodded restored Thorens TD124. I like to quote Art Dudley who recently wrote that he has a hard time recommending any current era new turntable. I am going to nonetheless venture out on a blind limb and suggest you consider this; http://www.hifigem.com/polytable.html and a Manley Chinook. Why? Well this table is not the sharpest looking but it delivers on sound basic principles. The Jelco arm on this deck is a classic, proven value. I advise all vinyl neophytes to avoid unipivot arms. That means forget about most VPI models. I own a Manley Steelhead and love it, so I am biased in favor of the Chinook. Let me say it again, answering your question is like answering, "what card am I thinking of?" You need to find someone to set up the table for you. You ought to also try and install a wall mount for your new deck unless you have poured slab floors. Good luck. In fact, since I just invested ten minutes, please PM me or report back publicly in this thread about where you end up. |
@jaym759 In my studied opinion and personal experience.... I don't use ARC electronics any more (I used to, but moved on), but a lot of people (including myself) think the Herron Audio VTPH-2A is about as good as it gets for a phono stage. Exceptional performance, flexible set-up, outstanding customer service and support. Not the only cowboy in the rodeo, but definitely one of the strongest contenders in any very short list of cost-no-object components. Lots to choose from for a table / arm combo. An easy choice might be a VPI Avenger fitted with an updated VPI arm. A less expensive alternative might be a VPI Prime Signature. If the Prime is chosen, place it on Bear Claw footers or (even better) original Stillpoint cones. Lots of other tables that would perform at the exception level to match the rest of your system. A good cartridge that matches this set-up is a Lyra Delos. As an alternative cartridge(s), other consideration might include Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC Star or Lyra Etna SL. Again, this is just a short excerpt from a long list of top performers. Your ears need to decide. In the end, it's what gives you the most musical satisfaction. All the suggestions in the world might just provide some ideas rather than a hard-fast list. From a personal perspective, my point of view, there are a LOT of very qualified turntable / arm / cartridge combinations that would make a fine match in your system. But also from that personal perspective and opinion, I don't think you can find anything better than a Herron Audio VTPH-2A at any price. If it were my money (and has been), I'd go with the Herron Audio VTPH-2A phono stage, VPI Avenger and Lyra Delos. But that's just me. YMMV. YOMV. That's MY OPINION. |
