If one is offered an opportunity to hear multiple brands/models of a component in the same room/system (in this case a streamer) keeping all other elements unchanged, then yes, one could potentially hear differences among those streamers. That’d be an ideal situation; one @mcmanus would be fortunate to have. However, what @mcmanus mentioned in his original post is the more typical audio show scenario wherein each room features one streamer, with a different brand/model streamer in each system. @mcmanus: My request is for advice on how to compare models that will, of course, be in different systems in different rooms, etc. In that scenario, the best one can do is identify rooms with sound that connects with the listener, and use that info to audition the related streamers at home. |
The last show I attended one room let us hear 3 different phono stages.
The first two clearly were tube. The third I said to the presenter, "What, solid state?" "Yeah." Not all solid state, I think he said some kind of hybrid, there was a mosfet or something. Point is, I had no trouble hearing to the level of being able to detect one solid state part in a whole component never heard before, in a system never heard before, in a room I had never been in my life, playing music I never heard before.
This was at least 20 years ago.
I don’t know why so many of you find this so hard. I do think however in light of the above maybe pay attention to someone who actually knows what he’s doing? As our second greatest most famous president would say, What have you got to lose? |
One good thing is that at a show most rooms are similar in size and shape. It will be easy to tell when a system sounds good or great compared to other rooms and their associated equipment. With a ballroom setup it can be hit or miss, too many variables.
If your hair stands up or you get goosebumps that's a good sign. Take your own material that you listen to regularly.
Good luck, have fun and be safe. 😉 |
@dynamiclinearity,
"If a system sounds good at a show it is good. If it doesn’t sound good you can’t be sure what’s going on and if it’s a product that interests you, you need to hear it in other venues."
I strongly suspect this is true but usually you don’t really have the time.
At one level a show is like a tournament of a kind with some folk trying the hearts out to be the best in show. That was certainly in evidence at that last show a few weeks back.
More than a few systems featured the use of certain well known isolation products. Some of the rooms such as the Kerr Acoustics room even went as far as use strategically placed panels in an effort to counter possible unwanted room resonances.
Whatever it takes, you the exhibitor owe it to yourself to present your product in the best light possible.
I’m sure many of us have heard show systems perform at way below what they might be capable of, and at this level, that really is unfortunate for everyone concerned. |
Another useful show strategy is find your reference sound as best as possible at the show, if you do not already know what that sounds like. Cost no object! Once you’ve identified it, don’t waste time listening to gear that is out of your budget range. Spend time listening only to things you can afford and might actually buy that are in a system that approximates that reference sound well. |
You have to identify items to try from the pack somehow. Use your ears. If you hear a good sounding setup at a show all you know for sure is each piece in it is capable of delivering that sound in that room. That’s a first good step to help identify specific items of interest. Then you have to do your homework and determine why that setup worked so well and how that might relate to your specific case at home. Nothing great ever comes easy. The devil is always in the details, right? |
Go in with a plan for what you want to get out of it specifically then spend your time wisely and don’t be afraid to ask questions.
May be doing CAF this weekend. Looking to assess some newer products. We will see…. |
@millercarbon So, how does it feel to be dumber than a sack of hair?
Your posts are laugh riots...everything you say is such BS. Do you sit around and make this up full time, or do you just do it in your sleep? |
+1 tvad, One simply can't account for so many variables.
And then we have listener state of mind, we are not in our usual at home listening mode, many distractions compete for attention, hard to disconnect from analytical mode.
On the other hand, shows give one exposure to new equipment. And the social aspects can be a positive, you may even be able to purchase a long desired component at discount through contacts at shows.
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Ever notice how someone will form an argument by twisting up some pretzel logic based on something that was never stated? It’s called a straw man. And here, folks, we have a classic straw man; stating it was written in this thread that attending audio shows is a waste of time.
Do some work. Carefully read every post prior to the straw man. Find the post where someone wrote attending audio shows is a waste of time.
It will take a long time. Forever, in fact. Because, no one wrote it.
What was written, is that it’s impossible to separate out how one component affects the sound of an unfamiliar system at an audio show. Any logical audiophile knows this to be true. So, let’s assume one has listened to six systems that include six different streamers. Of those six systems, three sound fantastic. What is possible, is to conclude that a streamer in a system that sounds fantastic is contributing to that system’s fantastic sound, and perhaps it will contribute to fantastic sound at home. Therefore, hearing systems at an audio show can be very helpful insofar as it leads to the next step in the evaluation process. Hardly a waste of time. |
That's a good point there, when you know how to listen you can do it even over a YT video. When you don't then nothing ever will do, and so instead you spend your whole life thinking up excuses why you can't, or sometimes maybe childish put-downs, anything to avoid addressing the real issue: your own inadequacy.
Always easier to blame the other guy than take responsibility yourself, innit? |
Audio Troy you want $8,000 for a shelving unit give your head a shake what a rip off |
to hear tell of it he is on the gold standard, but count me in for $.02
I do enjoy the mature response by audio union. A guy with a good plan. |
Go back in time and read how MC evaluated speakers: he used YouTube!! I suggest we take up a collection so MC can attend an audio show to actually hear what a good system sounds like.
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As millercarbon sez -- You go to a room. You audition...er...listen to what's on. Maybe you've brought something for them to play, but that's not crucial to the experience. In any case, the vital question is do you like it? Does it push your important audiophile buttons? If it does but it still doesn't quite make it all the way for you, are you able to articulate what could still be better? In other words, do the shortcomings seem fixable? If so, take a brochure. Take some notes. Talk to the person in charge. (Sorry...I'm constantly being interrupted by trick-or-treaters.) |
Setting up in audio shows is always a problem. Some presenters are better at setting up, especially quickly as needed at shows than others. If a system sounds good at a show it is good. If it doesn't sound good you can't be sure what's going on and if it's a product that interests you, you need to hear it in other venues.
If you don't have a lot of time the Jim Smith advice to listen outside a room and if it's good there then go in is great advice. My friend, George Bischoff, didn't have much time to see shows as he was always exhibiting and that's how he decided whether to spend time in a room. |
To the best of my knowledge Dr. Vinyl will have 2 rooms at the show. I will have cables in both. I expect good sound, but it won't sound like my home system. You "will" be able to judge equipment as to whether you think it has potential in your system in Dr. Vinyl's rooms for sure. I do think there will be some after hours listening and possibly even a comparison between some equipment. Not counting that Greg will be playing tapes on UHA deck/recorder in the room with Vitus and Thrax. There will be several new pieces of equipment at the show. The media reviewers will be there and they will be sizing up equipment for review potential, Manufacturers will be there trying to influence reviewers and dealers. Dealers will be there sizing up equipment for sale and sell their equipment. I expect several room will shine above the others. No way to know for sure which rooms will appeal to you unless you go listen for yourself. I have been to and enjoyed audio shows in US, Canada, and Germany. I intent to enjoy the equipment and the music in several of the rooms. |
Obviously a lot of people swallow the idea it is all but impossible to audition anything at a show. Yet they all go to shows. Which they consider a complete waste of time. Crazier still, other people compliment them on their sage advice. Go figure.
To understand just how goofy this is think about something completely different and yet entirely the same: the test drive. Imagine someone says a test drive is a complete waste of time. They insist you cannot know how the car will handle without driving it up and down your home drive way. There is nothing you can learn about how a car handles on the unfamiliar roads around the dealership. Probably you must take the car on the same test track, drive the same speed, on the same day with the same weather I suppose as well.
When in reality we all know perfectly well exactly what will happen. You know very well how a car feels, how comfortable, quiet, how good the handling, no matter what road you drive it on. If you have any experience at all you are perfectly capable of understanding when you are on gravel vs concrete vs blacktop and all the different conditions of wear and smoothness of each of these- and how to factor this into the sounds and vibrations and everything else you are feeling while driving.
How is this in any way different than being familiar with the way different rooms affect the sound? Can you not hear the people in the room talking? The clues are everywhere.
Honestly, I know people love to repeat what they hear without really thinking things through, because that is, you know, work. But do the work. Don’t be the guy who repeats mindlessly what a waste of time it is- while out the other side of his mouth telling you how important it is that you do it anyway. |
I was at one a few weeks back (nary a mask anywhere) and was again reminded of the importance of being organised. With so much going on, you really need to know beforehand how best to use your time. For the first hour or so, I was having trouble distinguishing large sonic differences between the various rooms. Nothing initially seemed to stand out in an easily identifiable bad way this year and that certainly has not been my experience previously at shows! I can’t also remember seeing so many folks using their phones as cameras this year. It can seem a little obtrusive but if done with some discretion it will help with preserving memories afterwards. It’s also best not to be too shy or reticent. Often the designers are there in person and most will appreciate a few choice questions. Most will also accommodate requests for tracks. Allan Hendry of Monopulse even handed out a couple of sheets with his favourite 100 tracks to select from! The main problem is just how fast time flies when you’re having such fun! Here’s a detailed write up by Ian Ringstead in HiFi Pig https://hifipig.com/uk-audio-show-2021-show-report/#more-141151 |
Pretty much the same way you get a great meal
at the Golden Arches. |
I also agree @tvad nailed it you're listening to a system. If you like the system then you may like the streamer you may not. Also consider with a streamer functionality and interface are on par with sound quality in terms of importance.
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i do think getting a feel for the operating software is valuable as someone noted above.
sonics…meh…
build quality of casework, etc a plus.
establishing some level of relationship w dealer manufacturers, etc a plus. possibly meeting other users….
have fun, enjoy |
Does that go for upchuck fest too? |
Passing on all audio shows for now.good luck let us know how you liked the show. |
We did have an ad running |
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my 2 cents
in general, @tvad has nailed it, you can’t really assess or compare gear at shows... wayyy too many variables/unknowns - shows are fun to see the gear ’in the flesh’, meet people behind the gear, and at best, provide a very very rough screen to note what might sound good to you -- thinking is, if a room sounds particularly good at a show, they have achieved something pretty difficult, and it may be worth your pursuing what’s in it - noting the gear in the chain, the room situation AND the setup - the latter 2 are critical, esp. listening triangle...
specifically, to ’hear the sound of a streamer’ at a show? forget it... done right, you can barely hear the difference between competent streamers in the controlled environment of your home and even then, is it the cabling? power management? connection interface? signal feed? -- that said, you CAN see how well a streamer is built, if you like how it looks, and what software/controls are being used (important!), see if those may suit your fancy |
Facten we do have an ad running |
Good luck at the Capital show. If you are looking at high end streamers you should consider Wolf Audio. They will be in at least 2 rooms. One would be at the House of Stereo room. They also have their own Wolf room and often they team up with Cardas so you can compare the sound in several systems.
I have no financial ties to Wolf Audio other than being a very satisfied customer who has purchased several units from them. |
@audiotroy How about taking out an ad and stop with the endless sales jobs within Forums of stuff you carry
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@mcmanus Great that you are able to attend. Enjoy yourself.
Connect with the dealers and manufacturers showcasing their components and systems.
Looking forward to your impressions and information on the various servers and streamers you are considering. |
Wear your mask and don’t get into a dinky hotel room with more than half a dozen other people. And if the sound is as bad as some shows that I have attended, brink additional masks for your ears |
mcmanus
you can hear the award winning 432Evo at the Dr. vinyl room.
we have tested the Evo vs innous and aurender and the evos sound better.
in addition only the evos are 100 percent modiular and fully upgradable:
a starter model like our 3,500 standard, can be fully upgraded to a $16,000.00, flagship Master.
many people order the $5500. high end model which can be easily upgraded to the $7500. Aeon.
the $7,500 Aeon can challenge a 14k innous statement and the Aeon rated as one of the best sounding servers out of Europe.
Because the servers are completely, modular the servers performance can be improved as better clock boards,sound cards and cpus arrive.
Even the back pannel can be swapped to alow for new connections that dont yet exist.
unlike most of our competitors we dont use a single motherboard, instead we have a seperate cpu board, a seperate clock board, and sound card.
all boards are independently powered by one or two Sbooster power supplies.
Dave and troy
Audio intellect nj
US. importer 432Evo music servers. |
You can’t compare components at an audio show. It’s impossible to hear an unfamiliar system and separate out the affect one component has on what you’re hearing. The best you can do is spend time in rooms that have components you are interested in and narrow down the rooms that sound best to you. Then, re-visit those rooms later in the day, or on another day to confirm your listening impressions. Ultimately, you will need to audition streamers in your system. Jim Smith, in "Get Better Sound", discusses the approach of listening from the hall just outside the door. If it sounds good there, then it’s a good sign. If it doesn’t sound good from the hall, then it won’t sound better in the room. |
