How loud do you like to play your music?

always at 11

I try for a "realistic" level. In practice this means, for example, that the violin in a violin concerto should not be louder than a real violin can play. Unfortunately, when recordings are mastered the (featured and highly paid) soloist is often boosted relative to the orchestra, so that the orchestra is too weak when the violin is right. In a multichannel system, when the soloist is located in the center this can be corrected by lowering the center gain, and turning up the overall gain.

Some "realistic" levels are very loud...organ music and Sousa marches for example. I would never play a piano solo that loud.

Curious question: Is this dBA or dBC, and 'fast' or 'slow' response?

Still at download default settings, I've not had time to experiment.

Weighting is set for Flat with option for A or C.
Response is set for Impulse with options for fast or slow.
Level type is set for LP with option for Leq.

For comparison I just checked my listening / living room and got 39-41 DB.

>Albertporter:
>well in excess of 80 DB

Curious question: Is this dBA or dBC, and 'fast' or 'slow' response?

TIA!

Mike

Almag,

Since I carry my DB Meter inside the iPhone I frequently check places that have annoying SPL. Many restaurants reach well in excess of 80 DB in the waiting / bar area where floor, walls and ceiling is hard and customers don't have food in their mouth :^).

Drives me crazy. I've actually quit going some places because it makes me so uncomfortable.

does any one know what osha safety levels are to prevent hearing damage ? im 38 and want to keep my ears for a while. thanks chris

Here is the OSHA (Occupational Safety & Health Administration) regulation on occupational noise exposure:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9735

As you'll see, the answer is somewhat complex and depends on volume level, frequency, and exposure time. The specified limits are based on A-weighting, which as shown in the first figure gives greatest weight to frequencies in the 2 to 4 kHz area, de-emphasizes low frequencies greatly (which is obviously a very relevant factor when it comes to listening to music), and de-emphasizes very high frequencies somewhat.

Exposure time also very dramatically affects the maximum permissible levels.

The bottom line, based on A-weighting, would seem to be captured in this sentence:

When information indicates that any employee's exposure may equal or exceed an 8-hour time-weighted average of 85 decibels, the employer shall develop and implement a monitoring program.

The monitoring program is required to include annual audiometric testing of employee hearing.

Also, Table G-16 specifies maximum permissible exposures which must be adhered to, whether by means of administrative controls, hearing protectors, etc. Among other numbers, these limits include exposure to levels of 90db for 8 hours per day, and 110 db for 30 minutes per day. All based on A-weighting.

Regards,
-- Al

Knowing no better, I bought a digi SPL meter from Rat Shak... noy yhr snsloh (fisl) yypr drbrtsl yrstd sho. I don't use it as often as I should.

I played some big band jazz from Gordon Goodwin and Illinois Jacquette and I believe some rock from Def Lep... as I like Pour Some sugar on me... and wondered just where am I with the fun knob.

Apparently I could not take prolonged listening past an avg of 94db. Peaks were higher for sure. But 94-95db is p[retty dong gone high IMO. I'm in the mid to upper 80's or less, ususally.

Truth be told, I'm such a woose with high volume settings. I keep envisioning drivers being propelled out of the cabinents, or burning up, or some other crazy scenarios resulting in equipment failure.... so the vol knob around here gets some pretty judicious attention.

having had to encroach onto the sound stage by migrating into the nearfield due to one ear now being about 4db less than the other, my listening levels have diminished a bit more I suspect.

But with live recordings and the prioper musical recordings, elevating the fun knob seems almsot mandatory. thjough not with all... I don't want to hear Johnny Hartman or Ella Fitzgerald out in the yard. Also intimately or closely miced pressings don't dictate higher levels either.

ZZ Top and Def Lepp... well thay do need some decibels... though not through the whole aolbum... just now and then.

does any one know what osha safety levels are to prevent hearing damage ? im 38 and want to keep my ears for a while. thanks chris

To all my above friends... everything said above is spot on correct. It's possible the difference I hear has something to do with my amp. In most every review of the Usher's there is a comment that the Usher's need a "big amp" to really sing. My amp is a 5 channel Theta Intrepid (100 watts) which I don't think puts it in the league of a "big amp". Both the Usher's and the Focal's are great speakers.

I must add that the othee plots of BOTH the focals and Ushers are HIGHLY impressive - so I am not saying either one is not an awesome speaker - they both are!! However, I would not expect to be able to drive them hard playing a big jazz band or rock in a large room (as they aren't designed for this....horses for courses - don't get a bookshelf or a small monitor if you want realistic loud)

FWIW - the Ushers show signs of compression at a mere 90 db SPL - so you can forget about clean 110 peaks that Ralph mentioned.

And the as for the Focals, well ouch the distortion from what might be the tweeter resonance is scary. I have always considered that tweeter to sound splashy or in your face - and perhaps that plot says it all...who knows.

When I played the Focal’s at the same mark, the sound was “uncomfortable”.

As Ralph pointed out - distortion and particularly of higher harmonics is usually what makes the sound uncomfortably loud or just plain "uncomfortable" in small stereo systems.

Distortion can come on the source (a compressed Green Day or Red Hot Chilli Peppers CD), from your amplifier or from your speakers. Small speakers are most often the consistent culprit if you are using decent CD's. There is an article on Siegfried Linkwitz website about common midrange distortion and how it rises dramatically at higher SPL's.

It is surprising how loud music from real instruments can be without sounding uncomfortable but, for sure, consistent average energy above 100 db SPL is going to qucikly become uncomfortable. You can even cause IMD distortion in your ears at these high levels with midrange frequencies...although ultra LF bass frequencies do not become loud until you reach 100 db SPL...

Confusing...yes it can be.

Seconding Everest_Audio's comment, John Atkinson's measurements of the Usher indicate a measured sensitivity of 85db/2.83V/1m, less than their claimed 87db specification, while the Focal's are specified at 89db.

The usual confusion factor of 2.83 volts vs. 1 watt is present, but since both speakers are specified as nominally 8 ohms, and have a minimum impedance in the vicinity of 5 ohms, that is probably not significant in this comparison.

Regards,
-- Al

Raks, you said "When I played the Focal’s at the same mark, the sound was “uncomfortable”. That confused me because the Usher’s are more efficient than the Focal’s."

Actually, it's the other way around. The Ushers are much less efficent than the Focals. I made the switch in the opposite direction from you (from Micro Utopia BE's to the Ushers and there is definitely a difference in the efficiency with the Ushers needing considerably more power to hit the same volume level). So, if you set the same volume level on the Focals that you listened to with the Ushers, that explains why the sound was "uncomfortable". At the same volume position it would have been louder with the Micro Utopia BE's. So, it's most likely not a matter of the Focals giving you the fidelity you were looking for at a lower level.

Disclosure: I am an Usher dealer and a former Focal dealer.

I listen a lot based on the volume that one would expect if the music was live. So with Wagner- peaks around 110, but ELP's first LP I'll have dialed back a bit to peaks at 100-105. Solo guitar is then at 75.

In order to play these volumes comfortably (the way real music can do- 110 db is easy for a live orchestra), the system has to be free of resonances and odd-ordered harmonic generation (odd ordered harmonics are the cues that the ear/brain system uses to determine how loud a sound is). With no artificially enhanced volume cues then the cues come from the sources rather than the playback.

A few weeks ago I sold my Usher BE 718’s and replaced them with Focal JM Labs BE Micro Utopia’s… forcing me to mess around with speaker placement. I was perfectly happy with the Usher’s, but the temptation was too great so I took the plunge. I don’t know exactly what db level I was playing the Usher’s at, but I always set the volume level at the same mark. When I played the Focal’s at the same mark, the sound was “uncomfortable”. That confused me because the Usher’s are more efficient than the Focal’s.

I finally figured out that I must have been playing the Usher’s at a db level that gave me the fidelity I was happy with. At the same time, I realized that the Focal’s would give me the fidelity I was looking for… but at a lower db level... and that has made my wife very happy.

Nil,
It is an ad-on.
and what is all this meshugas since I've been away?
You just can't leave the boys alone.....(;

I recently used a pro calibrated SPL meter to see what level I listen at. I was surprised. My average level was 75 to 80dB with peaks around 85dB. 90dB was getting uncomfortable for me. I thought I was listening at least 10dB higher before I used the SPL meter. My hearing hasn't gone down the drain after all these years of abuse after all.

"09-11-09: Acoustat6
I think the good Dr. Mechans will have a new prescription for you. Thankfully your name is NilthePILL."

Acoustat5, you are not kidding! If I change volume and then I need to get back to my specific level, i would use magnifying glass to rotate my preamp's volume knob back to its precise location (my preamp has old fashioned analog volume control)
I guess I am anal in this not because i have this crazy theory (like yours ;-)) but in my average size room, at my listening position, which is very close, everything sounds 'right' at this 'specific level'

Like I said, I do occasionally 'turn it up'. But may Dr Mechans can prescribe me a pill to do that more often or get rid of this OCD of mine ;-)

One could take ones SPL meter to the local pick up bar and
thwap it out when chatting up somebody and one could say with a big smile, 'wanna see If I can get you up to 110db with some serious bed thrashing'?

With the right personal "equipment" and the iPhone SoundMeter download you could do your personal best while reaching the threshold of pain in two ways.

At least one can dream.

Yep, the chauffeur is still in employ, although the offer
of 'you can park your car in my garage' is proving to be a tough refusal as I like to keep a professional distance between employer and employee.
In fact I am going to insist on the stereo (can it be stereo if the vehicle has 4 or 6 speakers)? being on and playing loudly so I do not hear the idiot beeps.

One could take ones SPL meter to the local pick up bar and
thwap it out when chatting up somebody and one could say with a big smile, 'wanna see If I can get you up to 110db with some serious bed thrashing'?
Her retort could be 'if you can't find my button you'll be lucky to hear me reach 60db! '......................

with a pr of zu's so how loud depends on the amount of power i can get out wall outlet w/ a 20 amp breaker so far 141 db

Is that what they call a "Brown note"? (So loud that you S&*t yourself?)

well ad/dc foos and stuff like that, loud 110 db at least blue nile 80. it can be quite earth shakin in my 10 x 12 room w/ 2 dna 500's monoed? with a pr of zu's so how loud depends on the amount of power i can get out wall outlet w/ a 20 amp breaker so far 141 db

What?

:)

Regards,
-- Al

well ad/dc foos and stuff like that, loud 110 db at least blue nile 80. it can be quite earth shakin in my 10 x 12 room w/ 2 dna 500's monoed? with a pr of zu's so how loud depends on the amount of power i can get out wall outlet w/ a 20 amp breaker so far 141 db

Nilthepill said

"09-11-09: Nilthepill
My volume is set at specific level, i never ( except in few cases where recordings are low volume) touch it and is tuned for both CD and analog playbacks."

I think the good Dr. Mechans will have a new prescription for you. Thankfully your name is NilthePILL.

Dr Mechans has diagnosed me as obsessive compulsive for doing exactly as you say. There is help.

05-22-07: Mechans
"Acoustat- If that diatribe wasn't toungue in cheek. I recommend you get the DSM IV out and look up obsessive compulsive disorder. Easier do a search on line . Help is available."

05-22-07: Mechans
"If you are a nurse then you have what is known as poor insight technically. The behavior you describe is absolutely obssesive and if you can only listen that way it is a compulsion. I say this with some degree of confidence My wife and I are seasoned MDs and she just so happens to be the Chair of a Psych Dept. I can say only this -after 14 years of her describing various cases every night no names all HIPPA o.K. and that I myself was good in Psychiatry got Honors etc blew the boards through the roof etc. - typical MD narcisiscm.
Please don't impose more insanity of ridgid inflexible behavior as the single and only correct way. Anyone who deviates from this single correct manner is not a person who appreciates music as audiophile ."

Crank it up! Its good for your mental health

Bob

BTW, I listen near field- about 6-7 ft from my big speakers!

Detlof, gotta get the new IPhone as my vintage iPhone does not have a built in SPL meter. Or did you buy an ap for that?

My volume is set at specific level, i never ( except in few cases where recordings are low volume) touch it and is tuned for both CD and analog playbacks.

With this set up my volume/peaks varies between 75-85 db. You could say average is around 78 db!

for occasional high spirit listening sessions i crank it up a bit to may be around average of 85 dbs, peaks to 90 db- Solo Piano's and dance/rock music sounds much more believable at this level

Hey wait a minute Gawdbless. Utterly useless buzzes & beeps in your car? What, no more chauffeur?

BTW, dB meters don't measure to the ten millionth.

I find I need a minimum of 80db but prefer between 85 and 90.

I always use a SPL meter as I don't want to damage my ears more than they already have been and find it too easy for the volume to creep upwards (as I adjust for different music selections). Every once in a while I re-adjust to just over 80db (which can sound quiet if the volume has crept up).

Dear Mechans: In the day by day hearing I 'm on the 83db with peaks at 90-92db at seat position ( around 3m. )

Unfortunately not all recordings comes at the same " output level " and in some cases I have to reduce or to increase that normal volume by 1.5-3.0db

It is not only the output recording level and recording distortions and how we like it more but how low or high are each one audio system intrinsic distortions .

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Gawdbless,
I could not agree more.
For heavens sake, SPL meters are for AR types. It is a nice toy, if one feels so inclined, but hardly for a serious system set up. Used nothing but my ears. Those, though imperfect maybe, are the judges after all. What sounds right to them is fine and to hell with all measurements.
I am all for an Epicurean lifestyle.
But then, I am also all with Albert, as a toy they are way nice, those SPL meters.
Happy measuring, happy listening,
Detlof

More power to you if you feel the need to use a SPL meter, I just don't see the need. Music where instruments are plugged in should be played Medium to loud.

I lived very well without my SPL too, but going WAY back I've always had the Radio Shack meter around to verify home theater voicing, checking individual drivers for equal output, reporting to others about how loud a hum or buzz is from a transformer that's supposed to be quiet and even measuring the SPL from various record cleaning machines to see if "quietness" claims are accurate.

I even use it occasionally to prove to my wife that a favorite restaurant is probably in violation of OSHA on Saturday evening :^), for amusement if nothing else.

SPL meters are like speedometers on cars, we all know when we're driving way too fast, but it's nice to know how much over.

I personally compare SPL meters akin to the utterly useless
buzzes and beeps I have in my car, I do not need a beep
to tell me my seat belt is undone, nor do I feel the need for a gadget to tell I am listening at 86.3692963db, my listening levels is all done with my shell likes, either side of my head, if it is too loud, I just hit the remote and decrease the quality, if it is too quiet I hit the opposite button and just make it louder. I do like to fill my room with sound (13'x27') during the day as I am not going to annoy anyone (other than the dogs) I use my Oris 150's, but not at a level that gives me any ear ringing or causes my ears to bleed. In the evening (late) I use my single cone speakers and sit perhaps 12' from them, as opposed to my 25' listening positioning during the day.
More power to you if you feel the need to use a SPL meter, I just don't see the need. Music where instruments are plugged in should be played Medium to loud.
Rage Against The Machine played quietly? Nah.

Using my iPhone SPL meter (greetings Albert) I occasionally get 90-98 DB peaks. The rest is in the high seventies to mid eighties.

I listen on average about 80-85 db, with peaks close to 90.

I thought this was rather low, but it seems people lower than that.

Thank you, Albert and Sonofjim.

For me, the ideal is to hear playback at the same level I would experience hearing the same performance live, except for some rock. Anyone hearing very much live music should be able to adjust levels by ear, without need for a meter. For symphonic music, I prefer row M, not row B, so my levels would be lower than some others might like. For jazz, folk, etc., I prefer 20 to 30 feet from the stage. This provides better integration of sound when there is more than just a solo artist. Rock will be played back at lower than live levels since I don't want my ears ringing for days afterwards.

But reality means many recordings will be listened to at lower than ideal levels. As others commented, recording/pressing quality becomes very important here. For example, choral music can seldom be listened to at live levels without distortion.

But a real mystery to me is why so many audio friends tend to listen to all their music at the same level (individually, not necessarily the same as each other)? They find one volume setting and listen to everything at that level. The advantage of a remote volume control is not pure laziness, it is the ability to fine tune volume from the listening seat, even changing from one track to the next when necessary.

99% of the time 75-85db....drinking heavy fuel and listening to rock and the blues, who knows? (oh thats right!....my wife knows.....very loud).

Dave

I depends on the music for me. I turn up the volume till the song comes to life, every soung is different. Between 70 - 85 most of the time though

I do not have a didital meter but music that has a sustained loud passage I measure 92db. Most of the music I listen is well under that.

Thanks for the correction Albert. It looks like the app is called Soundmeter and costs $19.99 as opposed to $.99 for Decibel or Db but should be more flexible and accurate. Worth a try.

I like o listen at around 75 db-but louder if its a good recording-it feels more like a live event when its loud

For comfortable extended listening
Vinyl 75-85 db
Digital 65-75db

With the monitor/sub system I now have, I stay in the mid 80's to low 90's (continuous) range, which is also determined by the quality of the recording. This system simply lacks the impact the bigger system had & is not as much fun to listen to at higher SPL's.

This is the OTHER big factor in how loud one can go and enjoy it. It is NOT just the need to find a good clean dynamic recording that lacks distortion and compression...but ALSO the need to have a system that can play that loud effortlessly (i.e. with no more distortion than you get at 80 db).

For example the hardest to reproduce are drums: a drum set playing at around 90 db average SPL is likely to have accented peaks of around 100 db SPL, ghost notes at as little as 70 db, perhaps a squeaky foot pedal or the tail end of a crash at an even lower 30 or 40 db SPL, and on the flip side the max crescendos at the finale/end of a section/big rock fill should be around 110 to 115 db SPL. When you calculate this requirement at the typical 8 to 10 feet back listening position then you *ideally* need a speaker that can play at 120 db SPL comfortably and cleanly and without compression in order to get that relaxed "live" dynamic sound effect. It is a tall order and not many speakers can do that - so most music that you purchase has been heavily compressed - especially drums.

Are you people measuring in dB(A) or dB(C)?

For me anything between 75-92 dB(A)depends on music, time of day and wether or not my girlfriend is home.

Albertporter: What is the app for the iPhone?

It's not decibel Sonofjim, below is an active link to it. It's more expensive than the fun ones but according to posts I've read from engineers it's pretty darned accurate. It's also capable of being calibrated if you want it to be like a studio tool.

http://www.faberacoustical.com/products/iphone/

With rock and roll the bands seem to play it at one level only which is very loud and purposefully distorted.

Yeah - it is all noise today...no Stairway to Heaven or Bohemian Rhapsody anymore...since Oasis and U2 proved that hyper-compression sells there has been little else but constant monotonous noise for the last decade.

When I had a bigger system, I liked playing it over 100dB continuous at times because it sounded great but like a few folks have mentioned, it depended on the recording. I suppose the average was mid to upper 90's.

With the monitor/sub system I now have, I stay in the mid 80's to low 90's (continuous) range, which is also determined by the quality of the recording. This system simply lacks the impact the bigger system had & is not as much fun to listen to at higher SPL's.

Its funny, when I was younger I think I played that system pretty loud.
But it was mostly midrange and with the louder sound I was always trying to pull out (feel) more bass.

Now, as my current system is significantly better with better natural bass and soundstage, I dont need to play it as loud to get the same satisfying feeling.
Even with playing Led Zepplin !

Of course my wife will still say I play it too loud...

P.S. I still will crank it up from time to time though.