“House” Character of Popular $20-$30k Speakers

what gear / amplification was paired with the A5’s when you listened to them?

I did not demo the A5.  I’ve heard the A3, S1,S3, S5mk2, M2, M3, M6 so I am very familiar with Magico house sound.  My electronics are the Constellation Inspiration Pre+Stereo which is more neutral than your Diablo.  As mentioned before, you won’t know if you like the A5+Diablo unless you try for yourself- speaker preferences are very subjective. 

I have always loved SF’s take on what music sounds like. Who knows better than the Italians? And one of the most real sounding speakers I have heard were Rockports.

The paradigm persona 7f or 9h would end your search. I thought the Be mid and tweeter would steal the show but it was the quality, quantity, speed, and articulation of the bass that kept amazing me. My hegel h360 wasn't the best match for the mids and a pair of kef blades came up locally I wanted to try so I sold them. I have heard the persona properly set up and they are exceptional.

In your price range I would put the Acoustic Zen Crescendo mk2 on the short list. Impeccable sound quality!  

@mayoradamwest , thanks for the clarification and yes I fully agree with the importance of hearing everything first hand.  That said, before auditioning, I wanted to get a “general consensus” of the character of these different brands.  Before I audition amplifiers I did the same thing, and it helped.  In most cases, but not all, I agreed with the consensus on how a particular amp or preamp sounded.

Speaking of aging, I know that even in my 40’s my high frequency hearing is starting to degrade, based on a test I did years ago.  The test showed where my high frequency rolloff was happening. It’s not something I notice yet, but I am scared to do another test!  Having said that it might be valuable info in selecting which speakers I choose :)

@nyev you can find Alexia’s at a reasonable price used, but my bigger point was that I ended up getting rid of the 802 D3 because of bass. And yes, I would say Wilson and B&W, while not having the same signature, certainly both reside in a more neutral land. Keep in mind, that when some of the old timers here say something may be neutral, they probably lost their high frequency hearing decades ago. ;) you definitely need to hear them for yourself. 

Nyev, This is impossible to do because the same speaker in 5 different rooms is going to have 5 different sounds. You can predict sound stage size and depth to a degree whether a speaker is a point source or a line source. Some speakers such as dipole planars and horn are less room sensitive because they have controlled radiation patterns and do not spray sound all over the place creating a multitude of early reflections. From an amplitude perspective you can make a speaker sound any way you want it to if you get a digital room control unit with 1/3 octave EQ capability. Once you get use to using it you will know exactly what you like and how to get there with any loudspeaker. I like the bass boosted below 100 Hz up 6 dB at 20 Hz a flat midrange and the treble rolled off from 1000 Hz. By 20 kHz I am usually down 6 dB but this depends on the recording, some more, some less. With digital EQ you also are able to balance the channels so that they have the exact same frequency response curve which really sharpens the image.

All the speakers you mentioned are excellent and I agree on your evaluation of the looks of Wilsons. I like the workmanship on the Sous Fabers the best. Italians are really good at that. But, I am totally invested in ESLs so perhaps I am not the one to listen to when it comes to dynamic loudspeakers. I would tell you to get Magnepan 20.7s or Sound Labs 545 - 8s. 

Instead od SF Amati, I would look for Franco Serblin Ktema speakers.

BW, Focal and Magico (speaking in general, don get me wrong) are not 'my cup of tea'...and prefer the Franco Serblin's models more than new SR stuff

..

@nyev 

Have you auditioned completely redesigned and improved B&W 802D4? 

My speaker dealer didn’t carry Gryphon products, so I schlepped my 90 lbs Diablo to the dealer and auditioned it with a bunch of speakers. There was an ARC 160s lying on the floor minding its own business so we compared it to the Diablo using an Aurender A10 as the solo source. No pre-amp.

Oh My Goodness…. That was a mistake…!

I came in for a new pair of speakers and walked out with a new amp.

I have heard Magico… incredible speakers…. But you better have first class electronics behind them. Or you are going to hear any shortcomings. 
 

I was seduced by Sonus Faber for their natural sound… as in perfectly reproducing acoustic sounds which translates into all music genre sounding great. I have now had three sets of Sonus… Amati Traditional now.

@mayoradamwest , do you mean your Wilson’s have the same character as the B&W’s, just with the added bass? If not, how else are the Wilson’s different?

Update:  Never mind, just saw the price of the Alexia 2’s, they are in another league lol!!!

I had the 802 D3 and they definitely lacked bass presence. Switched to Wilson Alexia 2 and it’s like someone added a sub. Almost the same size drivers but ported. 

@kennyc , what gear / amplification was paired with the A5’s when you listened to them?

I feel like I have no harsh or sibilant components in my chain, so hopefully the A5’s won’t be strident or harsh sounding in my system.  The Diablo manual advocates not trying to “correct” sound with cabling, but rather to select the electronics you like and choose cabling that does as little as possible to the sound.  They recommend silver cabling, which I have.  So maybe the A5’s can be an extension to this philosophy…

Since I know how the B&W’s sound, how were the A5’s different?

And yes, I will be going and auditioning with my amp if I have to (hate to disturb it…)…

On a side note I still hope I like the Magicos, as I actually really like their “boring” understated look.  Sonus Fabers look incredible, but it reminds me of a fancy hotel lobby or the reception to a members only airport lounge…. Magico’s just look plain and cool to me!

@nyev 

I’m also shopping in the $20-30k range.

The Magico A5 is a bargain at it’s price point.  It surpasses the S3 and completes with the S5mk2.  It’s midrange is fantastic.  
Magico generally are neutral transparent speakers so should be a relatively clear window into the rest of your audio chain.  It may be an ideal subjective match for your Gryphon Diablo- only you can tell what you like.  The A5 is my top choice so far, but my dealer wants me to demo Rockports and Vimbergs first.

I’ve auditioned the Monitor Audio PL300 II several times- it’s sounds great at it’s price point, but was not in the same sonic and price point as the A5.  The PL500II are too large/tall for my tastes and space.  The Monitor Audio line offers great price/performance from the Silver and up.

I never warmed up to the Wilsons or B&W sound.  But it’s likely a matter of personal taste.

It’s best to demo speakers in your own system.  If not possible, then demo it with your Diablo.   Otherwise, you’ll be hoping and guessing what sound “you”  like based on data of what “others” like which may or not align with your own subjective tastes.  

@sc2 , unfortunately those brands are not available in my area. I’m making an exception and willing to travel to listen to the Rockports, just due to how many people seem to love and recommend them. Seems like people refer to them as a natural sounding, musically engaging speaker that strikes a good balance.

I do wonder if they have enough presence for my 600 sq feet high ceiling room though (the Atria 2’s)…

@thyname , yes, I meant to say that the review said the 802 D3’s would be lacking in bass in rooms larger than 430 sq feet.

As I mentioned, I have the 803 D2’s but initially auditioned my Diablo 300 with the 802 D3’s (a number of times for extended periods).

Have you considered Legacy Audio or Classic Audio Loudspeakers?

like the transparency and imaging of the 802 D3’s

I thought you had the 803 D2

I read a review of the 802 D4’s that said to expect bass to be missing in rooms smaller than 430 square feet.  My room is more like 600

Did you mean “rooms LARGER than 430 square feet? 
 

It’s one review (source by any chance?). Take it with a grain of salt. Besides, if you really want great bass, get dual subwoofer (or four). Any speakers.

Having said this, I understand you may be in a point of your journey you want to own other brands of speakers. Been there done that. Nothing wrong with it. Enjoy the journey 
 

Looks like Goodwin’s in MA carries both Rockports and Gryphon. This is where I might travel to!

Regarding Rockport Atria 2’s: how are they on bass presence and suitability for a larger room (600 square feet with high ceilings vaulting up to 12 feet?

As I mentioned, I really like the sound but find B&W’a in general to be lacking in bass presence and while I like the transparency and imaging of the 802 D3’s I think they are far too fussy with where the listening position needs to be.

I read a review of the 802 D4’s that said to expect bass to be missing in rooms smaller than 430 square feet.  My room is more like 600 with high ceilings vaulting up to 12 ft and openings to other rooms and hallways too.

I suppose that is something to consider with all of my speaker options as well.

If you like B&W general sound signature, the obvious choice is the new 802 D4. Or the 801 D4 if you can swing it. Your D2 is two generations ago

@bache - I think you hit the nail on the head in that folks that like Teton also like Las Vegas. I avoid both like the plague (or COVID).

Based on feedback so far, here is my prioritized order for auditions:

• Rockport Atrium 2’s are now in my top spot.  Would need to travel to audition.  Anyone know of a Rockport dealer likely to also have a Diablo 300?
• Magico A5 / Sonus Faber (would try multiple models). 
• Dynaudio (Confidence 30 I think?) but I think possibly might not have the low volume performance as I hear they like to be cranked….
• Monitor Audio, Audio Vector, Wilson, Paradigm

I've owned Dynaudio Contour 30i and jumped to Sonus Faber Olympica range. The SFs offer much better midrange very relaxed and yet very detailed high frequencies and good low end definition. Go and audition serafino or amati tradition. I'm sure you will like them

@teo_audio 

What are your thoughts and experiences with Rockport speakers ? 

I’ve probably owned over 100-150 pairs of speakers, over the years. I don’t rightly know. It’s a big number.

I’ve probably heard near 1000 or so pairs of speakers under favorable conditions, ie showrooms, audio shows, people’s houses. All hooked up with quality gear, etc etc.

Note that I mentioned Verity. I mentioned verity as the OP gravitated toward the Dynaudio speakers. Verity is in the same ballpark, but also...an upgrade. Ie, ’Audio technology’ drivers. Where Ejvind Skaaning went after all the other companies like skan-speak and dynaudio. His own company. I had the pleasure of speaking with him once, for about a hour. I called up Audio Technology to speak about some custom designs, and his son, Per (who was running the company) was away on holiday and Ejvind was manning the phones.

Quite a few of the brands mentioned use similar technology or they used dynaudio and scan-speak drivers in their past and right now. Or, some use ’audio technology’ drivers.

Verity uses audio technology drivers, in the past and probably still do, right now. Verity is one of those speaker brands that people end up with after they’ve finally got their head wrapped around how equipment sounds and can translate that to how things should sound, and can move in that direction. Verity owners generally (in my experience) aren’t on forums, or, if they are, they’re not loud about it. It’s all about the music.

If i had to chose between my expectations in sonic qualities.. and what I’ve experienced... and then translate that into what the OP might be looking for..the audition set would be between Dynaudio, Verity, Sonus Faber and Magico. With Magico being the odd man out.

Maybe one or two of the others..but that would require more scrutiny of their construction, crossovers, driver design, etc...Not saying they are somehow better or worse, but I just don’t know their design intricacies well enough. And, in the final analysis, well, it’s just, like, my opinion, man...

@mournbladeiv, thanks for this and your experience seems consistent with what others say in general about Sonus vs Magico. I’ll definitely need to audition these both. I don’t want absolute clarity at the expense of being strident. But, it is very possible that the A5’s wouldn’t be strident with my Diablo, as I also found my current B&W’s to be very slightly strident (in the upper mids mostly) at times when I was doing amplifier home demos…. Including with a McIntosh 452 and tube preamp.  The Diablo totally solved that though.

I also seriously think it is worth putting Rockports on the list even if I have to travel. Anyone know of Rockport dealers who would also have a Gryphon Diablo 300 on hand?

There seems to be a strong but smaller following of Monitor as well, which are available in my region, but I don’t know anything about their particular “house sound”.

Love my Monitor Audio pl300s

@nyev For me, I found the A5 could be a little strident at times, but if you are after absolute clarity, I give the nod to the Magico’s. For me, even though I generally listen to classic rock, prog rock and hard rock/heavy metal (with the occasional foray into classical and jazz) the Sonus fit what I was after: slightly warm, but with good separation, good bass (full disclosure: I am a bassist and even the Magico's could benefit from subwoofers IMO) and an excellent mid/treble It should also be noted that the Sonus were driven by Burmeister (not a good mix IMO) and McIntosh (truly beautiful) while the Magico’s in the other room I have heard through Soulution and MSB ( I preferred the MSB). All listening was done at Scott Walker Audio in Keller, TX with a full suite of Synergistic Research interconnects, power cables and room acoustics. I do not work for SWA, just a satisfied customer who wants to give full transparency.

@mournbladeiv, thanks for your thoughts! All brands you mentioned are available near me. How would you characterize the sonic differences between the A5’s and the Sonus Faber Amati Traditions and, looks aside, would you put one over the other in sonic performance?

For me looks are way down on my list of priorities, although my wife said she doesn’t like the like the look of the A5’s compared with my current speakers! Personally I think they look boring too, but also cool understated and very classic.

I can  speak to the Sonus Faber -  last week I heard a brand new pair of Amati Traditions, and they were exquisite. Visually stunning (red stain) and beautifully voiced, they are the top contender for my next speaker upgrade.

Another great sounding speaker I have heard many times is the Magico A5. While, IMO, somewhat boring appearing, they are anything but boring to listen to. It is a lively, detailed speaker with excellent bass response as well as a sweet mid range and treble.

I am sure there are other fantastic choices in this price range (Paradigm Persona 7f, Audio Vector R6 Arrete, come to mind), but the 2 above are the only ones I have heard in person.

Good hunting!

@larry5729 , I’d love to listen to the Rockports as they have a lot of fans. But I live in Western Canada and there are no dealers near me. Maybe I would consider using some Airmiles and flying to a dealer that sells Rockports and has a Diablo 300 as well? As I said their do seem to be a lot of Rockports fans.

Yes, I do like my speakers after finding the Diablo which made them much more engaging, natural and with excellent dynamic swing. Slight tonal darkness (from the Diablo) which makes pretty much everything I listen too sound great, even with noisy hard rock recordings (ie Pearl Jam, etc).

What am I missing? I’ve heard what the 802 D3’s can do with the Diablo 300 when I auditioned the Diablo. Far, far mor transparency with details in songs is never heard before, way more fully formed imaging, with instruments and vocals not just in a 3D space but sounding 3D themselves.

With both the 802 D3’s and also my speakers, I’m also missing some bass presence and the 802 D3’s MIGHT be a hair too mid-forward for me (but if they had more bass than they might be perfect). Also, the 802’s were very finicky when moving around - poor off-axis performance.

I feel like subwoofers shouldn’t be needed at this level. So what am I looking for beyond my speakers:

-More transparency and detail

-More bass, but not looking for crazy room shaking bass. Just a bit more.

-Better imaging

-I want speakers that are stunning at low volumes (like my current speakers with my amp. This might rule out Dynaudios from what I’ve read)

-I want a musically engaging sound. Whatever that means, but I know it when I hear it. I home demoed some Moon / SimAudio amps and found them to have wicked precise detail and pinpoint soundstaging but found the music so uninvolving it was depressing… Some may say that rules out the A5 but I’m thinking my Diablo could add the “life” as it did with my current speakers.

-I want speakers that are not fussy about where you listen to them. Wasn’t an important feature before but my current system is very unfussy and I like that about it.

-

it is, of course, a matter of taste, but I would say go for Magico. I have had three different pairs of Focal, including the Mezzo Utopia, a top of the range YG, but nothing gets even close to my Magico. I tried to like Dynaudio, but whatever model, it sounds to me like behind a curtain. BTW I have a pair of active Dynaudio - very convenient solution for non-critical background listening. But if you could stretch a bit or go for used the S5 both MK1 and MK2 are absolutely amazing and with the Diabolo I believe will make quite a good match. But of course nothing better then to try it first, ideally at home.

I agree with creditingkarma.  I think Rockport's are amazing. If I upgrade, they would be at the top of my list.  However, it sounds like you already like your current speakers. What don't you like about your speakers?  What's missing?  Are the tweeters too bright?  Will you be able to hear the new speakers before you purchase them?

Do you have subwoofers?  If not, I would add a pair of REL's because their high-level connection allows them to play like woofers and blend seamlessly.  I would make sure to buy their SHO or above subwoofers.  

You might also consider SALK speakers.  Jim uses really high quality speakers.  

@nyev    Some many years ago now Martin Logan realised that if the driven membrane is arrayed in an outward curve the sound waves spread wider and widen the sweet spot.  Since then all MLs have a curved panel or, where there is a two-way system, eg CLXs, the treble panel is curved, as the mid and bass is much less directional.  This largely deals with your issue.

Having said that, dome tweeters and ribbons can beam as well.

All that said, I mostly listen alone, of course in the sweetest spot.

I would add Rockport to your list. I was in a similar situation upgrading from magico s1mk2. I auditioned the A5, s3mk2, Wilson yevette and sabrina x with the ro kport atria II. The Atria is a great speaker.

@clearthinker, my main issue with panels is that they ONLY sound good (and really good) in the sweet spot.  So much so that I feel like you might as well get headphones at that point.  But I agree they can sound superb in the sweet spot.

I would totally look at the new FR30 from PS Audio.  

How Much Fun...! New Speakers for $20k - $30k....!

So...

My personal experience..? With My Diablo 300...? (I now run ARC separates)

Best Sounding - Wilson Sasha DAW $37k

Best Sounding and Best Looking - Sonus Faber Serafino Tradition or Amati Tradition.

I've listened to Audio Note, B & W - Dynaudio - Wilson - Sonus Faber - Magico - Focal - Joseph Audio - 

My ear always returned to the Serafino's. (Amatis if I had a larger room)

Musical - Detailed and Fast - Real 30hz bass - Imaging like electrostatic with a large sweet spot. I actually have mine toed way out lately. and....they are gorgeous...! They party..! Sweet on voices.... I find the Gryphon a little dark and clinical, so I think the Serafino's really rounded that amp out. 

I had the Diablo and the Serafino's for about 6 months. DCS Bartok and mostly Nordost wires and connectors.

Have a blast...! Im jealous...!

Sonos Faber nova 5 - are not bright as B AND W, the silk dome tweeter provides more neutral smooth sound, but in no way that would put it into a relaxed category. 

 If you're happy with the B and W then just upgrade from there but same brand.

I concur with @styleman : you really should give the Focal a honest try. The Sopra 2 are within your budget and they excel at "transparency and detail, imaging" as you mentioned you like.

I would consider Sonus Faber or Wilson.  You can get new or previously owned in that range depending on your preference.  I own pairs of both brands.

If you can stretch your budget a bit higher the Rockport Avior ii would be well worth an audition. Matches well with your Diablo 300. 

Wilson’s 

There is a very seldom to be heard comparison of the Monitor Audio Platinum PL 500 II, B&W 800 D3 and the Dynaudio. I was set to purchase the B&W 802 until I heard this video. The way you describe your taste for music is similar to what I was looking for. Hence, I started looking at Gauder and Focal. The Focal Sopra no. 3 was on sale because the box had been opened for a presentation, but never played. I saved 6K Euro and I have the warm sound I was looking for. I have the PS Audio 250 Amp that matches very well. Anyway, the youtude comparison is worth a listen just hear the differences between the spreakers. Have fun and good listening!

@nyev   You like fast?  You think Magico is fast?  Try panels.  Especially electrostatics.

One more note:  I actually really enjoy listening to a high-performing system at quiet levels sometimes, late at night.  When you can hear all of the system's character, and also imaging, at that low of a level, it becomes almost surreal.  I've heard that the Magico A5's excel at that.  Maybe it's because they are a "fast" speaker?

So subjective I guess, but interesting... My list is limited to speakers I’d be able to audition in my area. I am wondering if I am up for lugging my Diablo 300 to the audition - I don’t really want to put my beloved amp through all of that trauma, and it would add to the stress for me, worrying about it! But I suppose I’ll need to. Most speakers in this range aren’t practical for in-home demos.

Without having listened to many other than B&W before, purely from reading reviews which I know is sort of worthless considering how subjective speakers and amps can be, I really WANT to like the Magico A5’s. But, I do hear many say how clinical and analytical Magico’s can be, which doesn’t sound like my style at all. I just don’t want to swing too far the other way either. I hear many say Focals are analytical too.

One thing I’m a bit tired of is large speakers that don’t have enough bass presence, in my admittedly larger space. I think it was Stereophile’s all-positive Magico A5 review that said they had a tad too much bass, but that it was very enjoyable. Review said if bass was 3-5dB louder it would be too much.

But maybe Dynaudio’s will be the sweet spot for me, or maybe I’ll prefer the relaxed-leaning Sonus Fabers. One thing about my current B&W 803 D2’s is, they are very relaxed and easy to listen to for ages, but they only got this way when I drove them with my Diablo. Almost like an old pair of perfect-fitting jeans, and they are not fussy at all anymore. Before my Diablo, with many other amps I tested at home, and with my prior Arcam amp, I actually slightly regretted the purchase of the 803’s! So, maybe the Magico A5’s won’t actually be clinical or analytical when driven by the Diablo.

From what the op has described, I would say the Dyn Confidence or Raidho’s.

The Raidho’s would have to be picked up used unless you like bookshelf’s.