HoloAudio STREAMER is out now

could be a good one

inside looks very neat, unclear how effective the isolation is handled, that will be a major determinant of sound quality, perhaps hans b or darko will do a review

i do wish they would make em in silver or black 🤣

@thyname I got a few headphone amps and kept 2.

Matrix Mini Pro 3 - this one is almost like a portable DAC/amp. At least it is easy to move to various room in the house or backyard. It also sounds pretty good, as do most $1000 DACs. That reminds me I need to help a friend set his mini up.

Benchmark BHA-1 - A bit too fatiguing so sold it. I loved the look of it though. This amp maybe nice with the Musetec oo5 DAC I have. I never tried them together.

Benchmark HPA4 - a great headphone amp and a great 2-channel preamp. I sold it by mistake, but I no longer needed the headphone amp part because I ONLY use RAAL SR1a and CA-1a phones. I ended up buying the Benchmark LA4 preamp to replace the HPA4. Though I made money on the sale of the HPA4. The HPA4 + old Meze Empy is great, not RAAL SR1A great but great in a headphones kind of way. The RAAL SR1a is a level beyond headphones.

Schitt Jotenhuim R + Sony SCD-1 SACD player - I have this in my second office room. I also have a Topping top end DAC hooked up to it. THis is used for the RAAL SR1a and CA-1a.

RAAL VM-1a - this is an incredible tube headphone amp solely made for the SR1a and CA-1a. I cannot imagine anything better than these 2 phones with the VM-1a. I use a neutral DAC with this amp, the Benchmark DAC3B. It is not as good with the smoother sounding Musetec 005 DAC.

I am building a Livingroom system and it has to sound as good or better than the VM-1a and the SR1a combo. Not an easy task.

I thought this thread was about the Holo streamer. 

This looks interesting because it supports NAA and therefore HQ Player. Not many streamers have that support. It also has Ethernet or USB to I2S conversion and output to a DAC with I2S inputs. It looks well built and all for about $800. Sounds enticing. If it only had Optical (not Toslink) inputs, it would kill the OpticalRendu and be an undisputed champ. Oh. It also supports Qobuz via Roon. So I would be all set. No need for a screen on the streamer. It’s on the other side of my listening room. Besides I look at the Roon Remote on my phone. No need for a streamer screen and the added cost and noise. 

@kingbarbuda, could you kindly explain the difference between toslink and optical?  I just assumed they were the same.  Thanks.

@doni I am not fully knowledgeable regarding all the technicalities and differences. Someone else here may be better at explaining them. But I will give it a shot. 
Toslink is a unque optical protocol invented by Toshiba. 
Toslink cables are usually of shorter length than what optical cables can be. 
There may be bandwidth differences between Toslink and optical. 
I believe related to the above, there are differences in how the Toslink and optical signals are processed. Others should comment on this. 
I hope that is somewhat helpful. 

For DAC owners that seek a Swiss army knife for streaming/DDC this seems a great value proposition. After digging in I've learned the USB and clock implementations are inferior to those included in my DAC so scratching from my list. And the streamer search continues.

Anyone try the Holo Red streamer yet?

Some folk over on Head-Fi are using/discussing it, I believe.  Check out the “Dedicated Source Component “ forum.

I listened to the Holo Audio streamer today and it was amazing. It is quite nicely made and heavy, too. It was delightful sounding. Went through a Bent TapX preamp into some Coincident tube amps. Wow.

@hilde45

I listened to the Holo Audio streamer today and it was amazing.

Was it really "amazing"? If so, that’s quite encouraging at its price point. I wonder how it compares sonically to the Magna Mano Ultra MK III that really impressed Hans Beekhuysen with its sound quality. He described it as 8/10ths performance of the mighty Grimm MU1 which is his current reference. Quite the compliment given the Ultra MK III is about1,300.00 USD. Really high praise.

Charles

@charles1dad When I say it was "amazing" I am choosing that word carefully. That's how it sounded to me and to the experienced audiophile with whom I listened. In addition to building audio equipment (including amps, preamps, speakers, and his Intel NUC) he has extensive computer experience. This is his conclusion, also, and we went back and forth to compare. The Holo exceeded his best streamers after many years. So, that's my basis for the word "amazing."

Am I a professional reviewer with the experience of a Darko or Hans Beekhuysen? Not by a long shot. I am an amateur and only speaking to my experience. 

Would we agree that there are not that many options between the Bluesound Node and much more expensive streamers? Indeed, along that line of argument, you mention the Magna Mano Ultra MK III that impressed Hans Beekhuysen. Well, it is about $1500. The Holo Audio Streamer is about $800, nearly half the cost.

It would be great to get a comparison between the Magna Mano and the Holo. Because if the Holo is 8/10 as good as the Magna, and the Magna is 8/10ths as good as the Grimm MU1, well, that would be...amazing.
 

@hilde45

High praise indeed for a $800 streamer. IME, we often overlooked the other most important aspect of these ‘giant killers’ …..the user interface and associated complexities i.e. how many more boxes, LPS we need to make these giant killers sing. Does it have its own robust app that is easy to navigate or are we relying on 3rd parties apps. Would you mind giving us a full operating breakdown of Red.

@lalitk I didn't have control over the streamer and was mainly listening. It was operated using Roon.

I think a longer, more in depth review by a professional is needed.

One thing I suspect is happening is that the streamer is entering a more mature phase as a product. As with other electronics familiar to folks here, new, smart ways of designing and economizing what is necessary to sonic quality is being implemented. I could be wrong, but doing streaming well is not rocket science; what is needed is a scalable, intelligent approach to solving a number of issues at once. The Holo may be an advance which builds upon both the higher priced and lower priced models and is finding the market niche in between. Others will surely follow.  

“doing streaming well is not rocket science”
@hilde45 

I agree, Raspberry Pi 4, Node 2 and iFI Zen Stream comes to mind. 

@lalitk I totally agree,  the user interface and associated complexities, is what seems to be a after thought for these manufacturers, and its the main reasons for keeping me looking and not committing to any right now. No one can seem to get it all on one simple app.

As quirky and low fi as Heos is, that's the only one I have tried that kind of covered it all.

@hilde45 

I hope that you did not misinterprete my inquiry. What you reported is very good news and inspiring to learn. Yes, the Magna Mano Ultra MK III is nearly double the cost of the Holo network player. 
 

I mentioned it because Hans is so impressed with its sound quality. He considers it genuinely a high end streaming component for very accessible price.He said that it really delivered quality performance. So, this and now the Holo seem to offer a level of sound quality well beyond Bluenode entry level standards. As far as I am concerned, this represents a very good development.

Couple the Holo or Magna with for example a high quality network filtering system (Network Acoustics) and one could seemingly have very cost effective, very good sounding audio streaming solution. Not dirt cheap nor exorbitant either. I hope that you understand my point.

Charles

@charles1dad Thank you -- that clarification helped a lot. I wrote to Hans via his Patreon channel asking him to review the unit. We need some professional assessments, for sure. 

“We need some professional assessments, for sure”
@hilde45

I am wondering why would you not wanna try Red in your system, even after being smitten by its amazing performance in another system? I think, your personal assessment would be quite helpful to many reading this thread.

@lalitk Because I have a $750 sunk into a Node 2i with an upgraded external LPS and I want to avoid a lateral move without some evidence. They take 6 weeks to build and are not returnable. So, without some additional data about whether they punch upwards, I'm reluctant to experiment.

I want to avoid a lateral move without some evidence. 

My two cents: I get it. I would probably hesitate too. Your logic is solid.
 

But, there is no such thing as “evidence “ from other folks. The only evidence that matters is you, trying it in your system. As inconvenient as it sounds, it’s the truth. Just my two cents.

“I want to avoid a lateral move without some evidence.”

@hilde45 

I get your hesitation with high probability of Red being a lateral move in your system. I must have misunderstood your high praise of Red thinking it punches way above its price point and better than your modified Node. Thanks for the clarification. 

@thyname ​​​​@lalitk ,

Yes, this is a bit puzzling to me as well. Hearing an audio component In person surpasses what “any” reviewer has to offer. At least for me it would. If I hear an audio product directly that is all I need to make a decision. A good professional review is certainly helpful when direct listening isn’t possible.

Perhaps I am missing something here. What could a reviewer tell someone that exceeds what they can hear on their own? The description of the Holo Red as “amazing “ and “sounds delightful “ is very high praise. @hilde45 would you describe your Blue Node listening encounters in the same manner as you did for the Holo network player?

My inference could be off but it appeared to me that you were highly impressed with the Holo listening experience.

Thanks,

Charles

Perhaps I am missing something here. What could a reviewer tell someone that exceeds what they can hear on their own? 

Simple:

1) the reviewers often simply omit the “compared to what?” Part

2) Unless you fully trust the reviewer, you would never know their intentions and the story behind what prompted the review. I hope you can read between the lines 

@thyname 

But, there is no such thing as “evidence “ from other folks. The only evidence that matters is you, trying it in your system.

I have to disagree. I read movie reviews, restaurant reviews, automotive reviews. My tastes are unique, but they are not completely idiosyncratic. I am not a solipsist.
If someone reviews the Holo Red and compares it to something else which is better than my Node 2i, it may contain information applicable to my tastes. Hans Beekhuysen would be a review to whom I would pay keen attention.

@lalitk  My comment about Red punching above it's price point is a hypothesis based on the fact that my audiophile friend -- who has a streaming set up that is far, far better than my Node 2i -- has replaced his setup with the Holo Red. My argument is simply that if his *previous* streamer is better than my Node, and the Red is better than his previous streamer, then it's likely that the Red is better than my Node. Make sense?

@charles1dad  The "amazing" comment had to do with the Red on a different system. It is hard for me to gauge how good the Red would be in my system. What would another reviewer bring? Additional data where the Red is assessed with a different system. You're familiar, I'm sure, with audio reviews of equipment which discuss how a speaker (e.g.) sounds with amp A, B, C and with source A, B. Etc. This process helps to triangulate what is common to the equipment under review under changing circumstances. Were I to read a review of the Red with other speakers and, especially, in comparison to better streamers than my Node 2i, that would help me triangulate whether the Red would be a lateral move from my Node or whether it is likely a streamer that punches above its weight class (and, thus above my Node 2i). 

@hilde45 

Got it. Each one of us has our own method for assessing audio products of interest. No doubt you have determined which approach is most effective for yourself. I hope you are able to hear the Holo Red in your audio system soon. It seems a promising component.

Charles

@charles1dad For me -- as a philosopher who thinks about aesthetics and questions of subjective taste -- the question is especially interesting.

If everyone had their own unique taste, then there would be no reason to converse about it. There would be as much reason to talk about how a speaker sounds as talk about what that slight twinge below my left knee feels like. It would be indescribable.

But we do talk about it -- we do compare, argue, agree, and influence one another. We have a crude vocabulary for acoustic experiences, but it does work for us. The reviewers who understand this are very popular because they know how to connect with a variety of listeners.

This ability to communicate across the divide of our subjective experiences means that there is something like inter-subjectivity (or even objectivity, properly qualified) which permits conversation about audio. Those conversations are built not off our differences, but upon what we share: a biology, a culture, a physics, and a language.

My Node 2 died a few months ago. I don’t stream much but I like the fact it is a DDC along with streamer and can output I2S. Thinking I might order one soon. Would love to hear some more personal impressions of it but might just bite the bullet. 

@hilde45 Can you take your Node to the dealer and compare on the system used there?  That may supply some of the desired evidence. Thanks for the post.

@mesch I hope to take it back to my audiophile friend's house to compare with his system as the stable variable(s).

I hope to take it back to my audiophile friend's house to compare with his system as the stable variable(s).

@hilde45 , that would be excellent! 
If you’re able to do so, please post your impressions.

Charles 

@charles1dad I will! 

Learning more about Red from my friend. I asked about doing a shootout.

He said:  "You could [compare them] but they are very different devices. The red doesn't have any kind of controller app like the node and relies on other things sending it data. No qobuz, though it does have Spotify and tidal. I use the red as a roon end point, something I believe the node will do, so you could compare the sound quality but I'm not sure the red would fit into your current infrastructure. It does list airplay as an option, but of course that resamples everything to lossy compression. 

The node is much more of an appliance and lots of features, the red is more of a bare bones streamer or usb to digital re-clocker.

One option with the red is the ability to use alternative operating systems, such as roopiexl and volumio. Volumio will connect to just about everything. All that is needed is to put the image on a micro SD flash card. The downside is for all the features it requires a subscription that is 4.99 euro/month if paid annually."

I have no experience with this product, but I have learned not to discount Chinese made audio components. Denafrips, Holo Audio, Gustard, Musician, Willenston, FiiO, HiFiman, SMSL, Topping, iFi, Audio-GD, etc all make products that are great value and quality at there respective price points....usually setting a standard for punching above their cost

I just ordered one.  I think it will take 4-6 weeks to get here.  I’m using an iFi Zen Stream now with an external LPS into a Denafrips Pontus 2 connected via USB . I’m not sure this will be a big upgrade but I like the idea of trying I2S from the Red to the Pontus.  Also compared the measurements by Golden Sound and it has a much lower noise floor than the iFi.  I only use the streamer for Roon and other upgrade options — Lumin U2 Mini, Auralic Aries, etc. — are more features and cost than I really need.  Will share findings in a couple of months.

@nymarty  My recent experience at my buddy's with the Red was that USB was noticeably better into a Holo May DAC than the I2S. Worth experimenting if you can.

@hilde45 thanks!  Will definitely try the different connections.  I’m inclined to use USB but want to try I2S to see if it’s as good.  I’ve had good experience with AES too.

Qobuz is no problem for me with Bubble and selecting HQPlayer as the renderer.

Using Red as NAA and 1.4/1.5 MHz 20 Bit PCM playback into Holo May KTE via USB.

Can someone who has a Red answer me this? Can it be used as an NAA using HQPlayer then Airplay or Spotify connect without rebooting. In other words, do you boot into NAA then, to do anything else, you need to boot into "regular" mode? Thanks.

@nymarty 

Any further impressions on Red? I tried to order one it’s been out of stock for a while. 

i was wondering if this thing is roon ready?  didn't see mention of it on their web page

@jjss49 I believe it is Roon ready. Viz., https://alpha-audio.net/review/holo-audio-red-streamer-and-ddc-red-alert/

I have both the Holo Audio Red and the Mercury V2. I think they are both good value for the money. I am using the I2S output directly into a Denafrips Pontus II. 

The default software on the Red is horrendous; I have installed RopieeeXL on both devices, since I use Roon or Roon + HQPlayer to feed them. Very stable, no problems.

One thing to be aware of is the Red has a top speed of 768k PCM on the I2S output, where the Mercury V2 tops out at 192k PCM. This is not an issue if you are not playing with HQPlayer's upsampling or filters. 

Both units compare favorably to what I was previously using (Roon to RPI4 / RopieeeXL to USB in of Iris DDC to I2S of Pontus). I'm on an extended business trip, but when I get back I plan to also evaluate the output of the Red's USB into the Iris, to compare the I2S from there to the Red's native I2S (basically a quality check on its I2S vs the Iris).

I currently use both units, with the Red using the NAA functionality of RopieeeXL for streaming Qobuz through the Pontus, and the Mercury set up separately for Spotify, Airplay, etc. going into a Schiit Modi Mulitbit.

@bhvf

Can someone who has a Red answer me this? Can it be used as an NAA using HQPlayer then Airplay or Spotify connect without rebooting. In other words, do you boot into NAA then, to do anything else, you need to boot into "regular" mode? Thanks.

I have the Red. As mentioned above, I’ve installed RopieeeXL instead of the stock software, as I think RopieeeXL is more stable and intuitive. This supports NAA. However, the one thing I find annoying about NAA is that, once HQPlayer has grabbed the device, it will not release it. So you will not be able to grab the device for, say, Spotify; even Roon can’t grab it for regular Roon play (i.e., not through HQP). You can have another player (RPI4, etc.) to switch to in the HQP interface, which then will release NAA on the Red (switching from NAA1 to NAA2 will release NAA1, which can then be used with Spotify). But this is a PITA. My solution was to have a different streamer and DAC for Spotify or Airplay, as mentioned above, and to leave the Red locked into NAA mode. Not ideal from a cost perspective, but I had the spare items around, and changing my preamp from Aux1 to Aux2 sure beats going to the HQP web page to release the device...

@sfgak Thanks for the info. That answers my question and allows me to cross the Red off my list.

@bhvf From what I’m reading, you may need to cross NAA off your list entirely. See, for example:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/ropieeexl-hqplayer-naa-interferes-with-airplay-shairport-output/206696/6

Per the discussion:

... as Jussi specified in another forum (AS), as long as the device is selected as active NAA (see attached screenshot) it won’t be available for anything else.
But there is no need to reboot or power cycle anything, you just need to select another NAA device and the other one will be released and will be available for other inputs.
If no other NAA device are available then you need to shutdown HQPlayer.

So this needing to select another NAA device appears to be a "feature" of the NAA protocol itself, which if true, means no device will do what you want... Having to go to the HQPlayer web page every time you want to switch inputs makes HQPlayer seriously less attractive. If I didn’t have a spare Mercury V2 and Schiit DAC (for Airplay and Spotify), I most likely would have dropped HQPlayer.

Slightly off-topic, my take on HQPlayer is that it isn’t life changing, just different. Any upsampling / dithering algorithms -- whether in HQPlayer or the DAC hardware itself -- color the sound. It’s all a question of what you prefer your coloration to be, and HQPlayer gives you more choices, some of which I like, some of which I don’t (note: I’m not converting PCM to DSD, so can’t comment on that functionality).

@sfgak Interesting. I currently use a micro-PC as an NAA and a Yamaha WXC-50 for Spotify and Airplay. My DAC has tons of inputs so it works if I’m the only one using it. The problem is if a family member wants to listen to something that I wasn’t listening to last. They need to figure out which input to choose. I also don’t disagree with your HQPlayer take. Sometimes I prefer the Yamaha via optical coax. I do have a pretty good DAC in the T+A DAC 200. I borrowed my dealer’s Innuos Zen and liked it better than the NAA on pretty much everything. It can actually work as an NAA but when you choose that you can’t do anything else. It also didn’t sound as good as my MicroPC NAA or using the Innuos Sense app. I should just get a Pulse or Pulsar. I hate this hobby. Lol.