Help. System sounds thin and bright or harsh

A dealer suggested a failing power supply. Something is off with it for sure.

Did you call Pass Labs? 
I owned the X250.5 for many years with 3 different speakers and the only way I was able to make it sound less than excellent was by using crappy components upstream. It’s transparent enough to show you what each component is doing. 
So this sounds odd to me but I’m there and I don’t hear what you hear in your system. 

yeah audphile 1 it is puzzling to me as well. I found the same degradation in sound quality again with the pass labs replaced after a couple of hours listening. I have called pass labs or Reno hifi where I purchased the amp from (back in 2014) and they tell me I would hear something different if the amp was to blame, like clicking and that both channels would not likely degrade at the same pace. 

I can't figure out what goes wrong...just some distortion and less meat on the bones. Felt new pre and dac fixed it but then it came back (bad sound) so I took the pass labs out of the mix and things sounded pretty good still using an Oppo bdp 105 as a transport via coax cable from DH Labs. I'm bypassing the tubed output stage using digital out.

There are only two components left the Oppo and the Harbeth 30.1 speakers. Also wondering if there some type of electrical bugaboo in the house that's only 5 years old.  I am using a Puritain 156 conditioner for all components except for the pass. I felt the Puritan really made a big difference and even tried it with the pass but pass labs recommends plugging straight into a wall socket with stock cord. 

I’m also using Puritan PSM156 and I like the sound of my Pass Labs amp being plugged directly into the wall outlet as well. Could be system compatibility when it comes to how all the component interact with each other (input/output impedance, gain, input sensitivity). 

@cymivka - I have x250.8 and psm156. They work beautifully. If you're looking for preamp, I recommend LTA MicroZOTL preamp. I just got it and sounds wonderful with Pass and Falcon Ls3a/5, which tells me it would also work well with harbeth. 

If you are using any rigid footers like cones, spikes, Rollerblocks, try removing them and replace with something pliant. If your issue is resonance related this should tell you. 

A fix no one has mentioned yet.

I've had the same problem over the last few years. Most of my listening time is at night from 11PM to 2AM. Supposed to be the best time to listen. System would start off great and get progressively brighter and thinner. Tried everything, amps, speakers, room placement, vinyl, digital, room acoustics. Nothing really helped. 

I started having a problem with the Oppo 105. Sometimes it would get stuck playing off the external hard drive. Had to be unplugged to unfreeze the gui. My VTL ST150 popped a resistor causing a tube to glow red. 

I joined the free Orchard Audio Starkrimson amp tour on the Hoffman website. The sound was so nice I had Leo build me an amp. New amp arrived and it wouldn't play! It automatically went into protection mode. The voltage was too high. As an experiment ran the amp with 300ft of 16ga extension cords. Wanted to drop the voltage. The amp played!

I now have the amp and Oppo plugged into a 20 amp variac set to 110 volts. Sounds nice throughout the night and, fingers crossed, the Oppo hasn't messed up since. Check your voltage. Mine steadily increases later at night. Funny thing, my big wire dedicated ac lines actually made the problem worse. Normal house circuits had more voltage drop and sounded better.

Loving the system and new amp.

Good luck,

aldnorab 

adnorab

thanks for your input.  I still come back to the oppo as my main problem aside from room maybe too big for the Harbeth 30.1's (no rear wall) I find i cannot tolerate music past 70 dcbls. voices "kill" in trying to get the music to excite the listening room. Very irritating.  I am running the oppo as a transport through a puritain 156 conditioner into a very good dac. Using an after market power cord (Puritain).

Sounds pretty good with the right recording at moderate levels.  Looking to try out another cd/transport before replacing the oppo.  

Also need to check voltage levels when sound gets worse.

Thanks

@raysmtb1 sounds like power issues to me

I might have missed it, are you using the Oppo’s Modwright DAC or an external one? The factory stock DAC in my Oppo 105 is relatively smooth, but a little bass lite and lacks depth, compared to the Ayre Codex. The Ayre has their proprietary digital filter that is as ring free as possible. No pre ring and only 1 cycle of post ring. The analog out put stage has great dynamics and bass power. First song scared the he.. out of me. The Oppo never did that.

The variac didn’t solve all the problem until it was also hooked to the Oppo.

Thanks,

aldnorab

E.S I haven't delved into actually measuring power. Don't have the gear or real knowhow for that matter.

Had a windstorm last night but the system didn't seem to exhibit any real symptoms. Just the usual lean/bright sound with lesser quality recordings, (voices way too hot)

Aldnorab I am by passing the oppo/modwright dac for a musetec dac that sounds pretty good with the right recordings. Connected via a DHLabs rca coax.  Even using the analog, tubed outputs of the modwrighted oppo in the past, I always felt the sound was a little brittle or hard.  The musetec dac brings a whole different sound..more detail, and layers of instruments and voices with more separation.. Hard/brittle sound has not been eliminated.  (weakest link the oppo?)

Oppo 105 as transport

Musetec 005 dac ( xlr balanced outs)

Benchmark LA4 Pre (xlr balanced outs)

Pass Labs X250.5 amp

Harbeth 30.1's

Just wanna get to a decent base point before deciding on possibly changing speakers. I love what the harbeths do but they lack bass/involvement and I no longer need to be bass shy since I don't live in an apartment at this time.

Cymivka, thanks for the extra info.

Not familiar with the sound of your DAC. I wouldn't consider the Oppo built in as warm. Sabre chips can be a little relentless. Good designers can overcome this  by not using all of Sabre's baked in digital filters and settings. My Ayre uses a Sabre chip and sounds nothing like the Oppo. Oppo seems to make a good transport. 

It is easy to check the AC power. A VOM can be purchased for around $20. They are even available at places like wally world. Just set dial to AC and insert a probe into each flat hole of the wall receptacle. Warning - don't touch the metal prongs. If you aren't comfortable doing this get someone else to help. 

Good luck,

aldnorab 

thanks for the AC check advice.  I can easily go the VOM route,  Listened last night after a wine or two and the system actually sounded "choked" to me at higher volume

This video will give you ideas on how to verify your system set up and determine if there are changes to make improvements, such as reducing the harshness you are experiencing.

Using Key Measurements to Verify Basic System Setup

Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer

I’m not sure if someone mentioned it, but subs always help. Harbeths are nice but may not handle the new room. 2 Rel s510’s would do the trick. That’s the route I’m heading as well. Sitting in front in listening chair, my system is awesome. In the kitchen area 15 feet away, missing just a bit. Enter the subs, which I’ve always had but not in the new system. It’s my next purchase. 

What power cables are you using. In my system stock power cords made it sound harsh and bright and thin, lot of metallic sounding highs. Replacing with Pangea Ac14se mk2 eliminated emi and made music.

Is your phase inverted ?

Seems to me more and more the 30.1's are just not big enough. Room treatments and less speaker toe in will likely help but not fix the sound. 

Earthbound     I am seriously considering subs but a pair of rel s510's would be pretty pricey.  The rel website configured that a pair of t7x's would work based on limited data punched into it's questionnaire,,,speaker brand...model...room square footage and such. I have read threads saying its very hard to integrate subs  but also others praising the use of subs.  I already believe two is the proper way to go to. 

I'm waiting for a new cd transport to arrive to see what that might offer. (probably not the magic bullet but the new one should be better than the Oppo bdp 105.)

vrao 81     I have a couple of after market power cords including one for the cd player acting as a transport (puritain along with the Puritain 156 conditioner) The others probably aren't high end. 

pointtrucking      I THINK its phase correct as some recordings sound very good.

I own 30.2's with a Class A amp. My suggestion is a combination of the above. Place the speakers closer to the walls if possible. Use Ton-Trager or similar stands, or what I did was put springs under my speakers, made a huge positive difference, and get a sub. Even a small one, or two, will do it.

I think good quality wire is worth it, but it should not be used as a tone control. Do the above first before switching wire.

You could get a pair of SVS 3000 Micro subs for $1700. They have an app for setup and allow phase adjustment from 0-180, rather than REL’s 0 or 180. I’ve found that alone allows for better fine tuning. REL not having an app makes setup frustrating as your constantly getting up to turn dials on the back.

I would also trying using the Sumiko setup. It sounds unusual in that your speakers often times don't end up symmetrical but it's all about placing the speakers to your ears and room as no 2 are alike. See here. It's free and you may learn something about placement while doing it. This is how my dealer sets up all his speakers and the only way I do it now.

Update

New cd transport (Project RS2T) has killed most of the bugaboos for harsh sound. I am now on the right path without even doing room treatments. .Oppo bdp105 was just lean and bright in comparison.  Clean power, stereo subs (recommended by many here, thank you) and room treatments (also recommended here) are next and not necessarily in that order.   Clearly bits are NOT just bits...the transport into a decent dac is a game changer in my system/room.  Thanks all for all the help.