msommers, Because half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chink, whilst thousands of great cattle, reposed beneath the shadow of the British oak, chew the cud and are silent, pray, to not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field; that, of course, they are many in number; or that, after all, they are other than the little, shriveled, meagre, hopping, though loud and troublesome insects of the hour. You have much to learn grasshopper.
Help me narrow down some speaker choices
Had the opportunity to listen to a bunch of well-known brands with my XA30.5 and DirectStream dac/pre and at the end of the day, left even more confused of what direction I wanted to go. I tried:
Totem Sky - Great air and high extension, fun, slightly forward from neutral, but too boomy and midrange wasn't working for me.
Focal Sopra 1 - The BE tweeter was making my ears bleed.
Opera Seconda - Great impact, dug deep, beautiful construction but on the opposite end of the focal, way too warm and congested (relatively speaking). It was definitely a fun speaker that wouldn't offend anyone but left me looking for more clarity and air.
Reference 3A MM deCapo - Really enjoyed these overall in the 2 hours I listened at someone's home but the BE tweeter again was wearing on me in the long run. Acoustic guitar and Gregory Porter's voice sounded absolutely stunning though.
ATC SCM40 - Great extension on either end, very accurate, guitar and voices sounded very real, in the room type of feel, not hifi. Lacked impact and wish it was a little more forward, otherwise very enjoyable and one of my top choices. I think my amp might be part of the limiting factor here.
Verity Audio Finn - Didn't sound coherent at all, top end was very overpowering. Each component was working fine but seemed like I was hearing each individual one rather than a blend, was very unusual.
Harbeth SHL5+ - Wrapped me in music, nice and cozy. Laid back speaker, female vocals sounded great but male voices didn't have the grunt I was hoping for. They left me a little snoozy and wooley sounding (but not signficantly so).
Looking back, I'd like the high-end extension and instrumental texture of a deCapo BE but a notch-back of the sizzle, with a more forward sounding SCM40 that can generate some impact.
I'm looking at all sorts of options at this point and wondering where to go. Looking at internet direct options as well from PranaFidelity Bhava, Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Sig Floorstander, Salk Sound Song3, Tekton (would have to be the Lore References, I can't stand the sight of the tweeter bug-eye array no matter how they sound. Wife wouldn't let them in the door either).
Totem Sky - Great air and high extension, fun, slightly forward from neutral, but too boomy and midrange wasn't working for me.
Focal Sopra 1 - The BE tweeter was making my ears bleed.
Opera Seconda - Great impact, dug deep, beautiful construction but on the opposite end of the focal, way too warm and congested (relatively speaking). It was definitely a fun speaker that wouldn't offend anyone but left me looking for more clarity and air.
Reference 3A MM deCapo - Really enjoyed these overall in the 2 hours I listened at someone's home but the BE tweeter again was wearing on me in the long run. Acoustic guitar and Gregory Porter's voice sounded absolutely stunning though.
ATC SCM40 - Great extension on either end, very accurate, guitar and voices sounded very real, in the room type of feel, not hifi. Lacked impact and wish it was a little more forward, otherwise very enjoyable and one of my top choices. I think my amp might be part of the limiting factor here.
Verity Audio Finn - Didn't sound coherent at all, top end was very overpowering. Each component was working fine but seemed like I was hearing each individual one rather than a blend, was very unusual.
Harbeth SHL5+ - Wrapped me in music, nice and cozy. Laid back speaker, female vocals sounded great but male voices didn't have the grunt I was hoping for. They left me a little snoozy and wooley sounding (but not signficantly so).
Looking back, I'd like the high-end extension and instrumental texture of a deCapo BE but a notch-back of the sizzle, with a more forward sounding SCM40 that can generate some impact.
I'm looking at all sorts of options at this point and wondering where to go. Looking at internet direct options as well from PranaFidelity Bhava, Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Sig Floorstander, Salk Sound Song3, Tekton (would have to be the Lore References, I can't stand the sight of the tweeter bug-eye array no matter how they sound. Wife wouldn't let them in the door either).
33 responses Add your response
msommers, bondmanp and others, you seem a little unsure of what you are doing. such dramatic detailed accounts of speaker performance absent any standard for comparison is comical at best. when you talk about "highs being shelved down a bit from the midrange" and "female vocals sounded great but male vocals lacked grunt" and other pieces sounding "snoozy and wooley" .... wow! when you write this garbage do you have a mirror along side the computer so you can throw yourself a wink every now and then? Between winks you might want to ask yourself one question...did the artist or producer intend it to sound that way or are they off base too? and a followup question...how do you know? |
msommers: The German Physiks, to my ears (YMMV) do just about everything right. They place sound in the room, with a wide, tall and deep soundstage. Yet, the music seems properly scaled, pianos sound like normal-sized pianos, not miniature pianos or 30 foot long pianos. The speakers completely dissappear as a sound source. To me, transients are just right, not in your face, but present enough to make the music sound real and palpable. They offer plenty of detail, but in a way that does not induce fatigue. The highs are detailed but smooth, and, perhaps, shelved down just a bit from the midrange. I like that, others may not. But in no way does listening to these speakers make me feel like I am missing out on any musical information. The texture of vocals and instruments strikes me as extremely realistic. The bass is very good, but I would still want subwoofers with the HRS-130, as I would with almost any speaker, full range or not. But what you don't get with these omnis is a sense of listening to a bunch of drivers in a pair of boxes. The music just floats beautifully in the room, from wall to wall and from floor to ceiling. I think the two main reasons for this, other than the bending wave technology used by the DDD driver, are the lack of a baffle, and the lack of any crossover in the midrange or treble. |
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rsgottlieb I have a Monitor Audio dealer here and I think they have some PL series stuff in-store so I should check them out! Aerial looks pretty interesting as well, I'll have to check if a demo is at all possible. @reubent @grinnell Good option! The older 3A don't come up often so that is a difficulty but maybe 3A has some old ones kicking around as well...They just did vocals and acoustic guitar SO well, I was really floored a few times and made a serious impression on me. @audiotroy Thanks Dave! I'll try to track down a Legacy dealer and see what I can do as that certainly seems up my alley! @mofojo Congrats on the new speakers! The RAAL is really interesting but also very hard to audition. Glad you're liking them! @soix I think I'd at minimum want something like the Pulsar or Perspective from JA which are unfortunately beyond my means. @bondmanp I have never listened to a speaker with this design! Very interesting. How would you design their sonic signature in comparison to other speakers you've listened to? |
msommers - No, I have been enjoying my much less expensive Ohm Walsh 2000s (each with their own Vandersteen 2Wq subwoofer) since late 2009. But I have heard the GP HRS-130, and the GP are my dream speaker. They take the Walsh omni concept and realize it more fully than any speaker I am aware of. And they sound exquisite. |
We sell the ATC and the Legacy, the ATC SCM 40 are wonderful speakers they do like power and perform beautiufully with 30 watts but won't play loud without the amp going into some compression. We also sell the Legacy line and they might be perfect for you we compared them to the SCM 40 and felt that the Legacy was a stronger value for $7k over the SCM 40, but it still have some different strengths. Love those ATC 40's as well. The Legacy Signature Se has a lot of the things you seek: 1: they are 92db efficient so they will play loud on 30 watts 2: they throw a huge soundstage 3: the Heil AMT midrange and tweeter are both silky smooth and have good detail 4; they have deep full bass down to 22hz. 5: they are a managable size big enough to sound room filling with a huge soundstage but not so big at to dominate 6: they are a very reasonable price $7k 7: they come in many different wood finishes Currently they are our favorite overall performer for under $10k, unfortunatly Legacy is a very small speaker company so they may be hard to demo in Canada, they may have a dealer there though. If you are ever in the New York metro area for business, we can demo a lot of great speakers for you, PSB T3, Legacy, Dali, Kef, ATC. Hope that helps Dave owner Audio Doctor NJ |
@msommers The shipping to Canada shouldn't be an issue as Eric is shipping to a number of countries overseas. If you are worried about length of time, I'd order an available pair after confirming with him that it is. I can relate, since I am waiting on a custom order that is taking longer than expected. You have a number of really good options to choose from. Looking forward to learning about your final choice and how it works out for you. |
I will second Reubents comments on the De Capos I have a pair of the de Capos I in cherry and the sound is detailed, rich and works very well with my 4 watt Decware mini torii used around $1200 took me 8 months of looking but have enjoyed these for 7.5 years Also used these speakers with Primaluna PL2 with EL34 and a 2 watt Grommes PHI 26 sounded great with all the amps |
If you like the Reference 3A MM DeCapo BE, except they had a bit too much sizzle for you, perhaps you can find a pair of the predecessors - MM DeCapo-i. I had a pair for sever years and really enjoyed them. They had plenty of high end extension and detail, but I did not think the sounded hot or had too much sizzle. They are also more attractive with the excellent piano black lacquer finish, or real wood verneer. They also happen to be considerably less expensive when you find them. |
I'm delighted with Monitor Audio PL 100II--that's the bottom of the line at 6k, and it goes up to 30K in different forms. Great sound all round, very accurate, just the slightest bit of warmth, powerful bass and amazing highs. You also might look at Aerial. i heard the 5t and was mighty impressed--but got the monitors for 1/2 price on this site! Have fun. |
@david_ten Thanks for your comments! It's great that you also have Pass gear and they pair well. Given their overall assessment, I think for my tastes a tube power amp would be necessary. The Monitor might be a good option - smaller, cheaper to ship and not as physically huge as the Double Impacts. Such mixed customer service with Tekton is a really big concern, especially being in a different country... @steakster It certainly is possible but I would think it's more neutral than anything. I say that because I also have Schiit Yggdrasil to compare dacs and also a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium preamp with NOS 60's Mullards and RCAs to tweak things slightly. @toetapaudio I have not heard of that brand - will inquire further. What would you suggest? @bondmanp I will look into those further, thanks for the suggestions! Did you end up with anything from GP? If so, what are your other components in the chain? |
These will be difficult to audition, and they are sold direct with no return option (crazy, right?), but in what seems to be your price range, I really enjoy the Silverline Audio Bolero Supreme. The Esotar tweeter will definitely not make your ears bleed, but offer great extention and detail. I would also look into German Physiks, the Unlimited MkII or the HRS-120. Based on your reaction to the speakers you've heard (and I have heard some, but not all of them), you might really enjoy the way these speakers sound. |
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@msommers Your Pass XA30.5 and DS, as DAC and Pre, would be a really nice pairing for the Tekton Double Impacts or Impacts. I totally understand the concern about the 'array.' I had the same concern but the speakers have grown on me aesthetically and I'm really surprised by this. The array is actually balanced in it's 'look.' My wife complained about them for the first month (her concern was more about the size in the room and not the look per se - we have the DIs). If you go with a black finish, this will be less of a concern. My speakers are soft gray, so the contrast is sharper. I'd like the high-end extension and instrumental texture of a deCapo BE but a notch-back of the sizzle, with a more forward sounding SCM40 that can generate some impact. Given your first post and subsequent ones, I think they will give you what you are looking for, sonically. I have the XA-30.8. Those that have the DS (but other amps) are also happy with that specific DAC in the chain feeding the Tektons. Good luck and best wishes. |
msommers, it might also be that you are very hard to please, that is good but creates problems. Pass are good amps, don't know your source. And to me just about any digital sounds wrong. Still, it is unclear. I don't know your budget but you could try Lansche and Kharma if you operate at this level. Focal Utopia is usually best with tube electronics. |
@inna There is no way for me to know, but I suspect they were all broken in. The Totems had just over 200hrs so maybe not quite. @twoleftears I haven't heard any of those, I'll see who's local! @jperry I'll check these out as well! @islandmandan I have heard the Stirling GR (pretty sure). I really loved the sound from these! Also have heard Tannoy D10A which was also very, very good and much better to look at. Also heard the Revolution series and the bass was way too boomy and nothing like the others I had heard prior. These speakers are reaching pretty high up the price range for me though, I think buying a new GR anything would be beyond my budget. And I have to wonder if the D10A would be too large for my room. I should see if I can demo a pair again... |
OP I agree with you that the limiting factor in listening to the ATCs would probably be your amp. Great amp for efficient speakers, but at 85 db efficiency that is not what the ATCs are! My speakers are 85 db efficient and I would not expect much jump out of them with such a low powered amp. It seems to me you have to decide how committed you are to the amp. If you really want to keep it then more efficient speakers should probably be on your list to audition. Good luck! |
