Hegel H120 or H190

You never specified your preferred source.  In the case that you're streaming, I'd take a hard look for a used H390.  Since the new H400 is out there should be some 390s around at a good price.

Thanks for your answer.

My preferred source is my CD drive (Cambridge 651C) or my TT (Clearaudio Emotion with Furutech / ADL GT40 Alpha phoo pre-amp). I might use the USB DAC entry but I won't do streaming.

I'm afraid that for now, H390 is out of my budget, even used.

if you think the H190 is better, I don't see how you will ever be happy with the H120. You will always think you are missing something. However you room is so small, I don't think this is the best way to spend your money, nor that the difference is significant. (Small in the amplifier need sense, not in any experience limiting sense)  75wpc Class A/B is twice of what you need easily.

I would save that money (the difference) for a speaker upgrade. That's your weak link and best bang for the buck.  

Agree with Grisly, the CM1 is a good speaker but rather disproportionate to what you are spending on the amp. If the speakers are staying for the 2 years but the lower priced amp and upgrade it all when the time comes.

Thanks!

So you would recommend another amp, maybe less powerful but of better design?

I'm considering a speaker upgrade indeed but I first need an amp: the previous one failed and the repair is too expansive. So I'm ampless for now :)

I have been looking buying the Hegel H90 and H120 but both are outside my budget. I believe they are very reliable and great sounding amps. So, recommending something else would be a bit of a tangent. (Plus, when you ask for a recommendation here of whatever amp, you will get a lot of "you must have what I have, regardless of budget, synergy, etc.)

I have tried a lot of amps and I feel I arrived back at the conclusion that the source and the speakers are way more important.

I would stick with the H120, they will drive any speaker for you room. My favorite source for recommendation and synergy is the British Audiophile

I had a H190 and got rid of it, was very dull flat, sterile to be honest. I ended up buying a Kinki Studio EX-M1 way more musical of an amp. 250WPC if that matters, more than enough power to drive most speakers out there.

If you are going to upgrade your speakers in a couple years. What might those speakers be? Research what amp that might be most synergistic with your new speakers. 🔊. I find there are a lot of switchbacks on this journey we take. 

Try the Hegel H360 used.

Just depends on how much power you want. I have the 190 and love it with the Dynaudio Heritage speakers.  I use it mainly for streaming.  My main listening is a tube integrated.

If you can find a H190, then go for it.  Great bang for the buck! 
 

All the best.

@gkelly +1    To avoid the rabbit hole make sure your new amp, whichever one you pick, will play nicely with your future choice of speakers.

Try the Hegel H360 used

no, it would make zero sense

The H190 is overkill for the room - but if you ever plan to move the system to a larger space it would be the smarter purchase.  Looking at a couple of sites - the used H190 sells for $600 to $1000 more than the H120.  There are many more H190s available.  I would spend an extra $6 to $700 to get the H190 now.  I wouldn't spend $1000 more, however.  Put that towards your CM1 replacements.  If you want a small room system now,  I'd get the H95 or H120 and a pair of used canton reference 9k, dynaudio specials or even larger fyne F502's I saw online for sale.  Good luck !

Thanks everyone for your recommendations!

I'm not planning to move anytime soon - so power should be enough with either amps for now. I'm more concerned about the overall sound quality of the two amps, for now given the fact that a future speaker upgrade could reveal more sound qualities than the CM1 are doing now.

So the H190 is overkill for the room and maybe the H120 is too but what about their sound? I can't find any significant information about a design change from one amp to the other that could "objectify" a step forward in SQ.

I know that listening by oneself is the rule of thumb but after several tests I'm beginning to be a little confused so other people opinions could help.

The H190 sounds a little better to me with some tracks but it may as well be placebo effect...

Or maybe the way to go is to upgrade the speakers first, then find the right amp!

The advice on figuring out your potential speaker upgrade, what your preferences are and picking a new amp based on how it meets the potential new speakers needs along with synergy is key.  How an amp sounds paired with speakers is heavily impacted by the synergy between the two.  Even if you aren’t streaming currently, might be a good idea to buy an amp that offers the capability, opens up an entirely new world of accessibility.  Hegel is highly regarded and specifically for their integrated units, you won’t go wrong with them.  They also should be able to drive most speakers.  I’d lean into the 190 or 360 used, Hegel has a great reputation for their integrated amps digital streaming / DAC capabilities, you’ll get a slightly better amp / pre and gain the all in one package needed to stream should you ever get the itch.  Bang for buck, Music Fidelity makes some great integrated amps, used some models should fall within your price range, same with Peach Tree Audio.  I think PS audio also makes a Class D integrated that can be found at a good value used.  Schitt has built their brand off of delivering high performance and reasonable prices, would look at their gear, integrated units as well. 
 

Good Luck,

@boozendormi

I think you should buy the H120. Even the H90 would be fine, but the H120 would be a no brainer.

I tried 7 integrated amps in two months in search of my next best amp. What I found was that they matter the least. The source and the speaker make a much bigger difference.

Don’t buy the speakers first. You need to match the speakers TO THE AMP, not the other way. In your room size, the Hegel will do everything you need. Any 2-3K bookshelf speaker from Dynaudio or Wharfedale or alike would be a huge upgrade to the B&Ws

It's a bit of a shame you've ruled out the H390. Now that the H400 is replacing it, I fortunate enough to pick up one in a new/open box condition very recently for $4,500 and a new H190 is I think something like $4,200. Thinking ahead, if you can find  a new or used H390 in that range, the relatively small extra dollar stretch is definitely worth it. It will drive whatever speakers you get in the future admirably and the gobs of quiet clean power it has will just sound better at lower listening volumes with your current speakers. On the other hand, stereo gear is just like bikes. There is always something better for just a little bit more money.  My bottom line is go with the most power in their lineup you can swing. I  really like the sound Hegel amps produce and no matter where you end up in their lineup, I predict you will be a happy camper.

quiet clean power it has will just sound better at lower listening volumes

I seriously doubt that

Take this with a grain of salt as I dont know what kind of music you listen to, but a quick search on USAM turned up a pair of Harbeth C7ES and a Hegel h190 for around $4600 (separate ads) which are thought to have good synergy.

I based your budget on a new h190 listing at $4200.

along the lines of previous suggestions: buy a bee farm. It has nothing to do with your question just like many of the comments here 

From reading online it appears the digital section of the H120 and H190 are identical.  I think basically it comes down to are u going to hear a difference with 75 wpc vs 150 wpc driving your speakers when listening at 80 dB ?  I think you will hear more of an improvement with an H120 and better speakers than an H190 with current speakers.  

Used 390’s can be had for about 3000. If it were me I’d try to stretch. 

Used 390’s can be had for about 3000

in a parallel universe

Also, anyone pays attention to poster's room size?

Hegel H190 open box on sale…

Safe & Sound: Hegel H190

You can do much better than Hegel, even at a comparable or lower price point, I do understand that a lot of mid-fi gear is difficult to demo but make an effort instead of relying on paid print/video media or fanboys!

The Hegel 190 amp is on sale because it’s been replaced by the Hegel 190v. 

See mfg 190v amp link.

@bimmerlover other than the original price being $3900, yes, it's a sale.

@dayglow I have never been able to understand the Hegel pricing. They are much cheaper on the 2nd hand market because - I assume - at that point they are compared to their actual competition.

For one, they are hard to look at. But let's say simple is beautiful and scandinavian and move past that. 

I think it is high value for its functionality but not the rest,

By wattage its super expensive

Reliability- no idea

Sound quality - never heard them at home

I think they are marketing them to a younger, wealthier clientele who turn it on when the other doctors/traders/attorney buddies come over. Set and forget. 

I am not criticitizing the brand just trying to understand the secret sauce. 

@grislybutter

As an owner of a Hegel h390 let me take a stab at explaining the sauce. :)

Even at retail you get a lot for the $. You have a high quality DAC, a streamer, and a very capable amp that, yes, does sound very good. They are powerhouses as well. Not sure what wattage you’re wanting but the 390 has been bench tested at 270w into 8, and 490w into 4. Stable into 2. Damping factor is 4000. They can drive almost any speaker with grace and iron control. The 590/600 of course are even more powerful and I’m not sure there are speakers made they can’t easily drive.

So, literally all you need to listen are speakers. And, I got mine brand new for $4500. If that’s not good value then we have a different understanding of the word. 😉 Imo to get the quality of sound a 390, 590 or 600 provide, buying an amp, preamp, DAC, streamer, you’d be spending 5x as much. Frankly I cannot think of a better value or more bang for your buck. 👍🏼 People spend more for an Ethernet cord. 🙄

@megabyte thanks that makes sense. 

I have yet to reach $4500 total to spend in the last decade on all my hifi gear so yes, we have a very different understanding of the word (and the WORLD )

By wattage, in a small room, what I also have, I don't know why one would need anything over 75 Watts, so my opinion does not matter as I have no clue what 200+ Watts do.

I do understand it has a great DAC. And streamer. Which is why I said: high value for its functionality

I do want to try the H90 or H120 in my system because of all the good things I hear.... but none of them are in stock - the one place where they are, they have a 20% restocking fee but some day I might.... 

@grislybutter    I will always reply when one takes the time to ask my opinion. Regarding Hegel no "secret sauce" exits other than marketing. Specifications are the Hegel selling point. As you might know watts are cheap and a very high damping factor can give an amplifier a very mechanical characteristic. How many times does a Hegel fanboy spew "4000 damping factor". Have heard the H390 enough times to know it checks few if any boxes for me, even for a second system. Yes, it can play loud and has bass control but so does a Crown XLS 2502 power amp. Transparency in production, consistency and parts quality has always been another issue with Hegel.  

Thanks @dayglow ! Good to have another objective view, it's a big world out there with a lot of options.

@boozendormi 

I am no expert at all as i am looking at a new amp as the initial set up was not well thought out as i knew no better.  Way too much research into this but.....ultimately know what direction you want to go with the speakers and what their requirements are to drive their best sound and get the amp that will pair with them as well as your ears, well.

I am leaning 190v as they should pair real nice with my MA silver 300's.  Mind you i have been at this for months.  No, i have no heard them with my speakers but have spoken to two who have as i have paired selections down. 

I am running 100w at these speaker now and you can hear they want more as they have so much more to give, and i have heard it from them when i tested and bought them and can hear i am not getting that at home.

And..... still not 100% positive on the amp selection, but close (90%) as this offers a great headphone amp (which i use a lot) and a pretty good DAC that means i do not need to work on upgrades there for the short term and can focus on other upgrades and whn the time comes (if it does) i can upgrade the DAC and/or headphone amp..

I have no knowledge about the speakers you have but again, if you are upgrading in the future, and that upgrade gets you into a speaker needing more power that 75 wpc,, I would go 190V or an equivalent....otherwise 120

Oh, i looked at 390 (now 400)....and no need for me to have that 30%+ increase in cost for power i do not need now, and likely ever and that goes with a few other integrated amps i have been looking at.

Hmmm...so....i would say make sure you know what you will power in the future so you do not need to upgrade again for need.  One can always upgrade for want.

I had several Hegels, currently 390 and 95. as many posters, plan to change the speakers asap. I had B&W 805s, but like the combination with Sterling (like Harbeth but better) and Dynaudio much more.  

Hegel 90 and 95 are mighty machines for small rooms. they can run a good size speaker. 

Well I am late to the show here.  That said, considering the fact that you don't listen at high volumes and have a smallish listening room I agree that you are not in need of more power than that provided by the Hegel 120. You should have no trouble finding speakers that play well with that amp in your room. 

The price differential between the 120 and the 190 could be used towards speakers. 

I have the Hegel h160 and found it to be a very good performer.  The h190 made changes to the pre section I believe adding an additional power supply, supposedly tweaked bass response for listening at lower SPLs but I can't definitively say which I would prefer. I never found the h160 to sound thin in the lows or mids.

Either way, both the h160 and the h190 can be found at good discounts used.  These amps are known to be reliable so I wouldn't hesitate from a used model.

I will be listing mine shortly as I have decided to downsize and seek speakers that respond well to lower power at lower SPLs where I listen.  I also don't want heavy equipment anymore, I'm over 60 and want smaller and lighter.

That limits alot of stuff I have looked at such as some audiophile standmounts that purportedly need a higher powered, higher current capable amp to sound good justifying their higher prices, even at lower volumes, especially if they dip well below 4 ohms.  That's a lot of constraints to put together a system that works well for me.

I could keep the Hegel as it has worked with everything well enough and has a good sounding dac that's still hard to beat unless you spend about a grand or more IMO, and then it could be more a match with a different coloration/flavor.  The h190 has the so called improvements however incremental more or less they may be and its a newer model.  Starting to see prices a bit under $2K used.  So an h160 will have to be substantially less. 

Either will give a taste of Hegel.  If 40 lbs and higher boxes are not an issue, I would go for the power.  Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.  If lower power is sufficient, then there are alot of other options as well. 

I preferred Hegel over Parasound for what its worth.  There's so many others around 100 to 150 watts as well, Creek, Outlaw, etc.  I would stay away from those with reliability issues or outdated parts.  Not that any can't be repaired, it just adds to the cost.  A good amp can sound good for many many years and not require repairs/maint.  At least Hegel is known for reliability and most say a neutral, smooth but powerful sound.  There are livelier amps, some darker, pick your preference.

@agwca I would be interested in your Hegel, if you post where you would list it. Probably would still be outside my budget.

Ok guys, thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts, tips & opinions. After some more tests, that will be an H120 for now. Enough power for the room.