Looking through the current Mapleshade flyer, the flyer states that speakers sitting on a concrete floor will have boomy bass and treble that is muted. Their suggestion is to buy their 4” thick Maple with 3” spikes platforms and place them under the speakers.
Now, forget for now the price of these platforms. Is their value to this claim? If there is a value, I would think that instead of steel spikes, speaker manufactures would make a Maple speaker type footer. Wouldn’t that make more sense?
And secondly, how would I be able to place a 215 lb speaker with large spikes onto this platform?
I don't know why you would need a 4" platform and 3" spikes. If you are right on the concrete, find some short cones or spikes with a wide base and place them under your speakers. If you are on carpeting over concrete, you'll need something just long enough to penetrate the carpet and elevate the speakers above the carpet.
However, you may need a spiked platform unless you want to install the spikes in the bottom of your speakers.
If the speakers are too heavy for one person to lift, have two people lift the cabinet while a third puts the platform in position.
I have a ceramic tile floor and I use carriage bolts, with the convex side to the floor, to great effect. My speakers are VSA SR IV's, at about 140 pounds each. Less than $5 at Home Depot. The bolts that is ;-)
Thanks for the replies. Yes the concrete floor is carpeted but no padding. I own the Andra 2 speakers. They have some pretty substantial steel spikes that lift the speaker about 3 inches from the floor. I also have some custom made brass Audio points for them, but I think the spikes that came with them work the best.
Still, I wonder if there is any reason to think that the speakers would sound better on a Maple platform.
Yes, I did. Pierre is a friend of mine and often has good ideas but this is not one of them. I tried one of his large $600 platforms that tilted the speaker upward and sat almost on the floor. Sounded VERY strange. I sold it to someone else who mounted floor standing speakers on it, not using the tilt feature. He had it for sale on Audiogon in a short time. I like the way my speakers sound on concrete [with thin rug]. I can't imagine how it would produce the kind of sound he describes. I had some boomy bass with WAY too much treble, but that was room reflection problems I cured with Ready Acoustics panels. I have had very good luck with Star Sound Audio Points but if what you have is working leave it alone.
" If your system is on a carpet (or tile) over concrete floor, you must cure the huge degrading effect of the concrete on the sound of your speakers. Concrete weakens and enormously muddies the bass while rolling off and harshening the treble." " Equally toxic to good speaker sound are modern "engineered" wood floors, particularly floating floors that rest on rubberery insulating sheets. Carpet over concrete or plywood just woresens the situation."
Based on these statements it would seem nothing is good. (except of course their maple platforms.)
So, I was wondering if placing Cardas Myrtle blocks under the speaker spikes might at least give me a hint if there is any creedence to these claims.
Maple is in effect telling you to decouple the speakers from the floor. Their are many materials that could do that, at much less expense. The issue is do the speakers you have benefit from one method vs. the other. Only trying it out will tell you. The key here is always remembering you hear the speakers/room, not just the speakers. Do some room analysis to 'see' how flat the room is.
Buconero117, I would like to try it but as I have posted, my speakers weigh 215 lbs each and this is not an easy task for this old man to move around and slide a maple platform underneath. And by by the way, the ones I would need for my size speakers from Maplshade would cost about $1600!
Tvad, I don’t under the treble statement either.
I am such a tweaker though, that I would like to get some inclination that there is merit to the Mapleshade statement
I do know that using a 4" Maple butcher block with Audio points underneath it improved my Amp.
Concrete weakens and enormously muddies the bass while rolling off and harshening the treble
I suppose "rolling off" and "harshening" could be reconciled in terms of, say, an emphasis in the 3 to 6kHz region followed by a rolloff above that. But I can't imagine how the surface that is immediately under the speaker could produce any kind of effect like that.
It has struck me in the past that more than a few of the statements in their catalog are, um, unlikely to have universal applicability.
I do, though, use their four-inch maple amp stand and isoblocks, and I've been pleased with them.
Tvad, Yes they are some expensive brass balls and pricey wood too. Timbernation, isn't that the place that many Audiogon members were having trouble getting the products that were paid for?
Srwooten, I always thought Concrete floors was a plus too.
Dog gone it though, I will have to at least try putting the Mrytle wood blocks under my speaker spikes just to see if there is a change. If I dont comment back soon, I am in traction.
As an alternative to maple get a sheet of 5/8 or thicker MDF, use 3 thicknesses of it separated by Blutak or generic equivalent at corners and held together by brass screws at corners and in center. Home Depot will cut it to size. I have done this for turntable stands. This is courtesy of Noel Noland at Skylan Stands. He maintains that it is better than maple, from my experience it is competitive with them but by the time I have taken my table apart and switched them and put the table back together it is impossible to make a reasoned judgement. The whole thing should rest on brass cones, tape washers or coins to bottom of stand for points to rest against or get threaded cones and drill stand to accept them. MUCH cheaper than maple, if you want to use maple try MICHIGAN MAPLE BLOCK or other supplier of cutting boards, I got a very good one from them.
I forgot to mention that I did get a maple platform from Timbernation last winter, took a little while but is quite good. On the other hand he told a friend of mine to send him diagrams for a custom stand but never followed up after he got them. So I would be cautious.
I was always under impression that using the spikes to pierce thru the carpet and contact the concrete was always the correct way to go;is this pratice not correct now?
If you absolutely don't want to spike, then use the universal cerapuc footers on top of your favorite wood that is on the carpet or try just on carpet.This will probably give you a good place to start listening as you can vary the size,shape and type of wood.
Lifeengineer, Actually I did own some Cerapucs for a time and I did try them under my Andra 2 speakers. In the end, I preferred the spikes that came with my speakers and sold the Cerapucs.
Lifeengineer, Tvad, Clio09, Thanks for the advise. Actually, I dont think my speakers have any problem, its just that the Mapleshade flyer seems to think that spiked speakers do not sound good on carpeted concrete foors.
I will lokk into the Herbies and Apex footer though . Thanks for the suggestion.
This seems wrong to me. I have my speakers spiked to a French limestone floor, with a rug with padding in front of the speakers. It sounds great, I wouldn't think of setting the speakers up differently. I would add padding for your rug, pour myself a single malt, and listen to some music.
My ESP Bodhran SE speakers are designed to be spiked to a concrete floor. The supplied spikes are a combination brass tip with a phenolic base. I thought these spikes might have been a compromise so I tried a set of solid brass Audio Points and did not like the results. The sound became too detailed and hi-fi sounding. I returned to the original spikes. Apparently the design was well chosen. I think any change in support will alter the sound of the speaker. You may find the sound improved or maybe not. Experimenting is part of the fun.
And? I was hoping for an exciting ending here. I have just stumbled onto mapleshades info and this thread and was hoping for resolution. ;) Let me tell you my story. I actually kind of reversed my way in to this situation and feel like mapleshade is right. My system sounded pretty good to me for the last 10 years. I've got large tower speakers spiked through carpet and pad over cement basement floor. I placed them using some cardas formulas 1/3 the room blah blah and found a pretty good spot. However, I recently thought Id try some fine tuning tweaks so I put them up on wood furniture dollies to move around and got a very noticeable improvement in sharpness and clarity and a harder hitting bass. So for now my speakers are spiked feet into a piece of mdf resting on a few cement pavers and just floating on top of the carpet with similar result and I'm trying to figure out what's going on. Like you, I don't want to pay $1000 for a couple of wood blocks, but I think they might be on to something and want to try to replicate their set up with out shelling out that kind of stupid money just to see if it works.(no offense Mapleshade, I don't think you are overcharging your totally in the fair market price for a quality piece of maple there is non cheaper any where on the planet, Ive looked. I am just not made of that kind of money.) Mapleshade says to spike their base into cement and spike or wood floor type footer your speaker into their woodblock. If you read mapleshade web site, nothing works like maple. all other substances are garbage. mdf, cement, blah blah blah, all sound like trash. Other info I found is that open baffle speaker builder clayton shaw at spatial audio also made a comment on a youtube video I saw about how a speaker reflects through the room and that the floor had a huge impact on the sound. (Not exact quote but along those lines and I may be wrong but think he also said cement is the devil(well he didn't say it like that)). Im not sure if my results are due to uncoupling my speakers? since they are just solidly attached to cement blocks RESTING on carpet or Is it floor reflection? is it speaker height? is it vibration? good grief, to many variables.
I am a DIYr and will probably just try to build a sand box for now. Ill try a 4" thick sand box built out of hardwood spiked to cement with a floating hardwood lid top and then speaker spiked to it. Its probably going to take me several weeks to dial this all in and Im not even sure I'm working in the right direction or using the right material sand is just like loose cement. and the hard wood cost will be a few hundred dollars. :(
I know this is a mostly dead thread, but do any of you people actually use proper measurements to determine if there are audible differences or do you believe in your ears being super special and able to distinguish tiny, tiny differences?
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