I keep eyes on the various markets and haven’t ever seen any Koetsu bodies that would give me concern. I’ve had 6 Koetsu in my hands - about half from used market, some purchased new from dealer, most the the used ones have gone through rebuild via Koetsu Japan (who would have rejected counterfeits). I’m pretty certain a counterfeit (not just gray market; an actual counterfeit attempt) would look or feel quite weird in some way. The Koetsu bodies are very finely crafted.
I share concern in general about 2juki’s sources and practices, but not on the topic of Koetsu counterfeits.
What I do see is a lot of retipped Koetsu for sale! Sometimes just the tip, sometimes the whole cantilever. Sometimes this is NOT disclosed in the ad. You need to learn what these stylus mountings (and boron and joint pipe) should look like up close, and how to spot obvious 3rd party retips. Modern Koetsu uses a very clean interface fit, with (usually) minimal glue. The "mound of glue" mountings are not Koetsu. Vintage Koetsu aren’t as clean looking as modern, but still not a mound of glue. The mound of glue is a perfectly valid mounting technique btw, but it’s never been used by Koetsu. I believe Lyra’s diamond mountings look a lot like Koetsu’s - probably from the same Japanese supplier.
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@mulveling
Would you have a link to a closeup image of a Koetsu diamond mounting?
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@neonknight
Here’s my vintage Musashino Onyx, rebuilt by Koetsu a few years ago. Note the metal "shoe" on the side facing the record, with bulk of the glue used on other side. I’ve seen cleaner examples of this lol.
And here’s their diamond cantilever (also my pic). Very clean mount of diamond to diamond; minimal glue - but the bond to joint pipe is a bit more messy:
There was recently a Koetsu (Burma Jade) for sale that looked like diamond cantilever from afar but was really some 3rd party sapphire job that looked truly awful, even at much lower magnification.
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@neonknight
For comparison, here is a typical Benz (or Van den hul etc) mounting. You can usually spot this from much lower magnification. Only the very tip of the diamond pokes out from the glue! I’ve seen examples where so little tip is exposed you can hardly believe it tracks, but it does - only a very very tiny fraction of the diamond tip is reading the groove! Also my pic:
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So a quality 3rd party service provider like Expert Stylus is unable to retain the sole plate?
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So a quality 3rd party service provider like Expert Stylus is unable to retain the sole plate?
@neonknight
I’m not sure. I think it would be far easier to apply a whole new cantilever & stylus mounting (sourced from the Japanese supplier) to the joint pipe, rather than attempt to retip that same kind of mount to an existing boron cantilever.
Ana Mighty Sound in France had some excellent pics of their rebuild work on Koetsus, which looks EXACTLY like the standard Koetsu mount. I didn’t ask if they’d applied a whole new cantilever, but would assume so. They posted these pics to the Facebook "Koetsu Users" group (I’m a co-admin), and I would never have been able to tell the difference to a stock Koetsu (quite frankly theirs looked even cleaner), so it must be from the same supplier Koetsu uses.
Mainly I wanted to comment on your thread here to warn others I see a lot of obvious looking Koetsu retips out in the wild, and how to start identifying them! It absolutely affects resale value. If considering a 3rd party (in some scenarios, this could be a reasonable value proposition), ideally they would be able to provide detailed pics of their prior work on Koetsu.
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I had my Urushi retipped by Expert Stylus in the UK, recently. They installed a new stylus but did not replace the cantilever. Their work is neat like the original. I could contrast it with a replacement sapphire cantilever plus OCL stylus done by SoundSmith. The latter has a big gob of glue at the base of the stylus, as seen in some of these photos. Since SS replaced both cantilever and stylus (on my Grace Ruby), I have to infer that their replacement cantilever/stylus came to them from their supplier with the stylus mounted as described. Both cartridges sound excellent; the Urushi sounds perhaps better than ever, but that is an unreliable "feeling".
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@mulveling
Thanks for those beautiful and interesting photos. The diamond cantilever in particular is beautiful.
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Thanks @mulveling for the awesome quality pics. Well beyond my pay grade.
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I have owned many Koetsu’s over the years and either bought new or used from reputable sellers. The rebuilds from Koetsu and Anna Mighty sound are the only way to go, I have had several Cartridges from Anna Mighty Sound and they are absolutely top notch in their care for rebuilds. I saw a Onyx stone body for sale on Audiomart recently and it was definitely messed with as the gold trim on the bottom was sourced from a standard rosewood cartridge, I asked about it and got no response, he sold it to some poor buyer that had no idea what he was getting. Be careful as some of the other comments earlier as there are a lot of retips out there being pawned off as stock cartridges
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A number of years ago I saw lots of K’s on Ebay with gold pins. At the time, all K came with silver pins, or so it seemed. Also some poorly made bamboo boxes. @mulveling would know if these were genuine.
The only sources I heard talking about counterfeits were people in the business, with vested interests.
I’ve wondered about counterfeits too, and it’s kept me from buying second hand.
Nice photos, M!
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I have owned many Koetsu’s over the years and either bought new or used from reputable sellers. The rebuilds from Koetsu and Anna Mighty sound are the only way to go, I have had several Cartridges from Anna Mighty Sound and they are absolutely top notch in their care for rebuilds. I saw a Onyx stone body for sale on Audiomart recently and it was definitely messed with as the gold trim on the bottom was sourced from a standard rosewood cartridge, I asked about it and got no response, he sold it to some poor buyer that had no idea what he was getting. Be careful as some of the other comments earlier as there are a lot of retips out there being pawned off as stock cartridges
Absolutely - some of the hacked up Koetsus being pawned off - ugh, wish I could add comments to these ads. And yes, I too mentioned Ana Mighty sound, and I certainly didn't intend to denigrate them or lump them in with other 3rd party re-tippers. Though I haven't had a Koetsu done by them yet, the work they have shown is MOST impressive!
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Photomicrograph of a diamond cantilever shows how much glue to expect. Sorry, can't post it. - anyway, invisibly much.
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A number of years ago I saw lots of K’s on Ebay with gold pins. At the time, all K came with silver pins, or so it seemed. Also some poorly made bamboo boxes. @mulveling would know if these were genuine.
@terry9 Some (most?) of the older Koetsus really did have gold pins. My vintage Musashino Onyx has gold pins - technically I think these were produced (in part or whole, not sure) by Musashino Audio Lab for Koetsu. Today, Koetsu treats them as Koetsu all the same.
For the vintage models, there are so many variations, that beyond a smell test you really need a Koetsu historian (more than me, I top out at "enthusiast" lol) to know what you’re wading into. Hearing that old Onyx for the first time is one of my top 3 most vivid audiophile memories - it was absolutely amazing, and I have no doubt it was 100% original, but alas its stylus was worn and it was showing very poor tracking performance on inner grooves! Now I have it as a hybrid of old and new style Koetsu (modern Onyx coils, cantilever, and stylus, but kept original magnets). I can tell you the modern Koetsu guts are much more detailed & punchy sounding, and the new Platinum magnets are smoother and warmer to balance that out. Ah, but those old coils surely did have some sweet magic in them.
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The older Koetsu cartridges did indeed have gold pins the newer ones have the silver colored pins. I have tried the older ones with the gold pins and while they sounded good I prefer the newer ones as stated better detail and dynamics, the rolled off highs and flabby bass that you read about is hogwash these cartridges to me lack for nothing. My other favorite cartridges are Jan Allaerts MC2 and Haniwa HCTR-01 for reference. You can’t go wrong with a Koetsu…
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The reply from mulveling is why I stay around this forum. Thank you for your time and effort to make all of us a little, or in my case here, a lot, wiser on this subject.
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Btw, thanks everyone for positive feedback on the pics and my experience with Koetsu :) I've been meaning to take more of my cartridge collection.
Nothing else quite does midrange like a Koetsu!
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@mulveling Thanks for the awesome pics and insight. Always a treat to read your commentary.
Can you recommend a Koetsu that will work well with a ClearAudio Performance DC with the Tracer tonearm? I'm pretty sure none of the stone bodies are compatible due to weight.
(and taking into consideration that the current TT will get upgraded eventually, either to a higher end ClearAudio OR the Technics SL-1000RE-S).
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@macg19
Thanks! I tried my Jade on Clearaudio Universal 12" VTA - and that was quickly the end of further Koetsu experiments on the arm. Tracks and plays fine. It's just sonically very flat and dull. Definitely lacking sparkle. Jade is probably the worst Koetsu to match here, for that reason - similar to Coralstone, it's especially warm, even for a Koetsu. If I had to guess, I'd blame the carbon fiber wand more than the mass / compliance match. That Universal arm generally has a bit of a relaxed top end. It matches better to Ortofons, Benzes, and Shelter Harmony.
If I were to try Koetsu again on a Tracer (which looks like a really nice arm in its own right), since it has the carbon fiber wand I'd want samarium cobalt magnets (punchy) and the metal body of Black (I generally like metal bodies on cartridges). The Rosewood and Urushis also use samarium cobalt magnets and could be good, but honestly the Black seems like it could slot in really nicely there. Unfortunately I haven't heard these Koetsu models, but being somewhat familiar with the effect of magnet types and body materials, this would be my best guess!
If you want to scale up, a used Fidelity Research FR64fx in good condition ($1500) is hard to beat for a match to Koetsu. You'd just need an armboard, and I'm not certain if it could fit the Performance / Ovation's small circular armboard. Perhaps worth checking though. I really love these FR arms on my Innovation series tables. Not just for Koetsu, either. On Innovations and Solutions, the FR64fx fits (only just, but it does) on their standard Graham Phantom long / flat armboard. Also have the Graham Phantom II Supreme and it's really good sounding and a dream to setup, but dang I just like those FR arms.
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@mulveling Thank you - you've given be a lot to think about / explore.
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FWIW, the stone bodied Koetsus work well with the Kuzma Airline- it doesn’t have high vertical mass, but the horizontal mass is considerable (this, notwithstanding Franc’s claim that the air bearing is frictionless and makes that irrelevant for most purposes). I have a Jade and Tiger Eye, both new from factory. The Jade is very good; there is some criticism that it makes everything some the same- i.e., a coloration. The Tiger Eye, which took time to break in, has more high freq information, and I’ve been running that for a while.
These are special cartridges- normally a high mass arm of the old type is required. But the combo of air bearing linear tracker + Koetsu works magic in my system; it isn’t just midrange purity-- I’ve had Van den Hul, Lyras top offerings and Airtights- none had the bass dimension and tone of the Koetsu along with that magical midrange. 
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I know the initial post was about Koetsu forgeries, but the discussion went sideways into 3rd party retipping.
I had been using Van den Hul for a couple decades. With COVID19, I decided I didn’t want to chance sending the cartridge across the pond and so I tried someone local, Steve Leung of VAS. I plan on writing a review of moderate length of the work he has done for me on my Rosewood Signature and Onyx, after my new room is complete (taking forever: I’m slowed down from bypass heart surgery) and I have had time to fully break in the Onyx, but for now suffice to say that Ana Mighty and Expert - to say nothing of insanely expensive Koetsu itself - are not the only options. Steve says that he refurbishes to Koetsu specs.
I’ll never sell these cartridges so I am not worried about resale, I’m just concerned about performance.
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Keep us posted - my retip / reconstruction time is coming.
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@scm
The pictures are of a legit Koetsu. Seller is in Japan, so you'll probably get a legit Koetsu. I thought the "Signature" model had the different body shape and metal cover with "lip" like the higher end Urushi & RSP, but it they might have made it like the standard Rosewood more recently - I'm not familiar with that part of the line.
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@mulveling ..Thanks, I`ve been helping my buddy find a cartridge that would be a step up over his nearly worn out ZYX Ultimate 100.
He did buy that one and it will be interesting to see how it sounds.
Thanks Again
Steve
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@mulveling....Nice catch on noticing the lack of the 'bump out' at the base of the cantilever shown in the picture 👍.
I let him know and told him to double check that he will be getting a Signature not a Standard Rosewood.
Steve
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@mulveling....Nice catch on noticing the lack of the 'bump out' at the base of the cantilever shown in the picture 👍.
I let him know and told him to double check that he will be getting a Signature not a Standard Rosewood.
@scm They might have legitimately changed that, more recently. Koetsu has made little changes to production over the years, which sometimes makes it hard to parse out what's what. That's a real challenge for older Onyx models. And good luck predicting whether an Urushi will have smooth-bore or threaded mounting holes!
You can see the Rosewood Standards for sale from Japan have a very dry, light-colored looking Rosewood. Yours shows a dark, rich Rosewood color. So the way to distinguish *might* simply be a more selected piece of darker Rosewood. The Signature Platinum (which I do have) adds a light coat of clear lacquer, which makes its look richer and shinier versus the matte Signature and Standard models. The Platinums also always have a serial # that starts with "P" like "P356".
If the Japanese seller is adamant it's a "Signature" model, I'd be inclined to trust him.
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@mulveling He`s waiting for a reply and I sent him a link to this thread.
Much appreciate all the information !!
Steve
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That would be my guess too, tho you never know w Koetsu.
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Ok some more sleuthing around and I found this:
https://www.koetsusea.com/The-Wood-Series.php
I`m inclined to believe that it`s a Standard according to the pictures.
@scm You should have your friend contact / email Koetsu S.E. Asia (Mel) directly and see if he has anything interesting in stock.
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There is a very high risk Koetsu's may appear that are not the real deal, especially after seeing a very recent report that Koetsu are no Longer in Business.
"It's with a very heavy heart, I sadly have to report that Koetsu is no more!
Having had a conversation with Koetsu's longest standing Distributor in the UK, Absolute Sounds, the simplified story is, that the family don't want the business to continue outwith their hands, and don't want to risk tarnishing the brands reputation and legacy by selling to an outside entity, which is honorable and admirable, in this day in age, too many originally family owned businesses have drifted from what was originally intended, take Gucci as an example, now a massive corporation with no family members involved, and dare I say long lost their original direction."
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