Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

+1 @arafiq and @lalitk!

I know moving on from the N20 was a bit premature, but while I had planned to have the cash “locked up” in my demo gear until I was through testing, I had a buyer approach me, and I know how long gear can be listed even at fair market value.  In short, I am rather fond of BOTH of my kidneys, lol!

@lalitk 

Some folks may see these purpose built DAC’s as compromising or lacking in features but they focus on one thing, and do it well rather than try to be all things to everyone.

As usual, lalitk hits the nail on the head. Good and sensible advice.

@nyev

Catching up on your musings…LOL! I see you’ve sold N20 and enjoying Merason DAC1. Personally, I wouldn’t have sold N20 until I’ve found the DAC that checks all the boxes. It’s all good, this is your journey. Just have fun and don’t be afraid to step out of your comfort zone. As long as you’re not giving away your kidney to afford your musings, you’ll be fine :-)

The Merason DAC1 is a fine performer. The NOS DACs are known to have more natural presentation. The highs tend to be smoother and clearer, and the entire presentation is more analog like which is what most of us strive for and hope from our digital gear. Some folks may see these purpose built DAC’s as compromising or lacking in features but they focus on one thing, and do it well rather than try to be all things to everyone. Streaming resolution maxes out at 24bit/192kHz so you’re A-Ok with DAC1 and Gryphon onboard DAC’s. When you get your MU1, be sure to use a good AES cable between MU1 and DAC1 / Gryphon and you will realize full potential of all components as intended by their respective designers. Follow @ghasley lead on all things with MU1 to achieve best outcome before considering another streamer or DAC options.

Be patient with the process and keep it coming!

lordmelton

What grates my posterior is those two clowns Coco and Bungle recommend and endorse a DAC to you that doesn't do 176 Khz.

Perhaps in time your anger will subside. Meanwhile, many audiophiles enjoy DACs that won't do 176 kHz. Some are even happy at 96 kHz, and will recommend them accordingly. Then there are those who use NOS DACs. That's an approach I've never understood, but it works for quite a few.

For me, that's part of what makes our audio pursuit interesting - there is no One Way. Some insist that there is only One Correct Way and as @lordmelton reveals, most of them get frustrated quite quickly and for some it rises to anger. 

The thread about underhung arms suffers the same problem - the concept angers a few and the fact that they've never seen or heard one makes no difference at all!

@lordmelton , okay, my mistake.

The DAC1 is a really, really fine DAC. You will find almost all people agree. I enjoy it! It’s not very obvious that it doesn’t do 176k (aside from with USB, so Innuos works great!). I mean, they say everywhere it supports up to 192k so unless you very carefully read the manual how would you know that USB supports all rates but not others? Finally, this DAC is purpose built to be musically enjoyable. No bells and whistles, no frills. If you feel the need for a display, that’s okay! I don’t need one.

This DAC works just fine for USB users (Innuos) as @ghasley used it with.

It’s already been worth the experience!

My Innuos stuff has no display either and I think that’s really cool in a stealth sort of way.  I’d actually prefer if the MU1 didn’t have one!

It’s all good and no worries! It’s the internet. There’s a lot of nastiness on these boards but I’ve also gleaned a TON of great info on this forum over the years. Including on this thread.  Hopefully I’ve helped others somehow as well.

I could be mistaken but I think @lordmelton may be a bit miffed that I sold the Aurender. But to a very happy buyer upgrading from his N10 who just received it today! To each their own.

Will continue posting updates on the remainder of this journey for sure. Waiting patiently…. Okay, maybe not so patiently :)

@arafiq 

Ignore the pompous ignoramus and please carry on. 

I would add quite childish. Pompous is being kind.

Charles

@nyev let me repeat. There quite a few of us who are following your journey with great interest and really appreciate your candor. Ignore the pompous ignoramus and please carry on. 
 

Looking forward to hearing your impression of the MU1 streamer with both DACs. 
Keep it coming. 

Makes good sense @ghasley and thank you as always.  I am really quite interested in the MK2 version of the DAC1 too.  In theory it should compete at a much higher level, but there are no reports on how it sounds yet.

@ghasley 

I can switch between 2fs and 4fs on the fly and I find the differences to be so minimal that its probably confirmation bias on my part. YMMV.

I find this very likely to be the case. I believe that there’s a potential in getting to caught up with numbers and tech sometimes. 4f does not have to be the default “best” setting for every DAC and circumstances. Great advice to take your time, relax and listen.

Charles

@nyev 

A couple of observations and a little cajoling to follow.

First of all, the Merason DAC1 can be end game for some but based on this thread, it was likely to never be more than an external dac proof of concept in your system. You needed and deserved a reference point to see where your internal dac board measured in comparison. You have discovered that it will stack up nicely and that its merely different. In fact, there is a growing body of evidence among many users that zoning in on bit rates rather than the sound as a whole to be an unfortunate use of one’s time. Does it sound great or not? 

When you get your MU1 and the fancy cables, set the MU1 for 2fs and forget about it for a while. Do NOT do any upsampling via Roon…that would be the wrong direction since the MU1 will be your Roon core the anticipated benefits of doing so in my opinion would not outweigh the negeative impact caused by taxing the cpu. I can switch between 2fs and 4fs on the fly and I find the differences to be so minimal that its probably confirmation bias on my part. YMMV.

There are numerous exceptional dacs on the market in the $10-20k range. The MU1 will help you determine if the Gryphon dac board can be satisfying to your ears and be a stopping point for you, however, if you find the Merason more satisfying than the Gryphon dac board then all you’ve learned is a pretty decent external dac is better than a pretty decent dac board. Then you would likely begin trying different external dacs. Ive had too many dacs to re-count for this thread…most of which presented my music wonderfully: Lampizator, Nagra, Playback Designs, Chord Dave, Meitner, etc, etc. I’ve settled in with Totaldac, others have settled in with other brands and found happiness. Thats what its all about. Settle in and listen for a while when the MU1 and your cables arrive. Set the MU1 for 2fs and forget about it. Do you like what you hear? Do you like it a week later?

At the end end of this next phase of this exercise you will discover a few salient data points. 

1) Does the MU1 maximize the performance of your Gryphon dac board and is it enough to be a stopping point for you?

2) Does the Merason improve upon the Gryphon dac board to the point that it leads you to believe the apex performance of the dac board is more similar to the entry point of better dacs?

3) Is the cost differential and added complexity worth it to you?

4) Keep it simple, you won’t learn nearly as much about a future spouse by speed dating as you will if you take the time to get to know them well. The same applies here.

Still waiting for my MU1 and fancy cables.

Today I learned from Merason that the DAC 1 can only do 176K on USB. 192 is supported on AES and SPDIF however. Which is exactly what the specifications state. I suppose I wasn’t sure what that meant, as I thought that would seem odd. This will not make the MU1 happy in 4X oversampling mode when playing 44k source material.

I’ve asked Grimm if there is any way to force the 4X output to always be 192k (which would be fine for the DAC1) and never 176k. But I doubt there is a way, at least, I doubt there is without compromising SQ (maybe Roon could “pre-upsample” to ensure the 192k cap is hit with 4X oversampling but that wouldn’t be good for sound). Anyone know if there is a solution? Guessing not.

It’s a shame because I really like the DAC1. I even love the way it looks. I like how you can see the circuit boards through the top and how the orange leds illuminate the inside when the lights are low.

My Gryphon DAC is more resolving but that’s probably due to the limitation of my $500 RCA interconnects I’m currently is using while waiting for my new cables. But the DAC1 sounds more natural, open, and musically involving. Vocals are more expressive on the DAC1 not due to performance but due to it being more neutral than my Gryphon DAC which I now understand to be quite coloured. I have mixed feelings on this coloration. The Gryphon’s tone sounds great overall but it makes vocals much smaller. The Gryphon DAC’s bass is bigger and rounder (and more detailed) but the DAC1 has far punchier and rhythmic, “carved” bass. This along with the expressive vocals is what makes this more musically involving than my Gryphon DAC.

All of this would improve with the new cables and the DAC 1 could be upgraded to the MK2 version for presumably better resolution. But very sadly, that won’t ever happen if I end up keeping the MU1, due to the limitation of the DAC1’s AES output not doing 176k. Zero issues with Innuos though, using USB!

I feel like the DAC 1 has some heart and soul to it. Too bad…. But it’s taught me a lot about my Gryphon DAC even without the balanced cables.
 

Just did a quick check in. Nothing much changed from last night. Maybe a bit more punchlines and rhythm in the bass but not sure.

The sound with the DAC1 on my basic RCA cables (big caveat) is not similar to the sound when the N20 was in my system, even if it sounds that way. Not at all. The N20 had an incredible density and flashiness that is not at all how the DAC 1 sounds (yes I realize it’s weird to be comparing a DAC and a server!). The N20 had an incredible blackness to the sound, and the effect reminded me of when I demoed an Audioquest Niagara 5000. Again, the Merason has none of this. And as above, there is no clamping of the upper frequencies.

I am starting to see in the Merason what reviewers have been referring to “rightness” of the sound, even if performance isn’t all out through the roof.

I can see how people say that this DAC encourages you to listen to music and says, “stop worrying about all that HiFi stuff”. It feels like that old pair of jeans that is maybe a bit worn but just fits right and is comfortable. Which may not be the most exciting thing in the world, but it’s just friendly and inviting. First time I fired up the N20 in comparison, to continue the analogy, it was like a brand new pair of designer jeans that needed assessments still for proper fit. Totally different sound with the N20!

I’ll also say this.  You know those odd tracks that never never quite sound right on your system?  Maybe it’s a me thing.  But u2’s One has always sounded weird on my system.  For the first time ever it sounds totally at ease with the DAC 1.

@arafiq , that fact has not been lost on me either, lol!

Definitely in the honeymoon phase for sure….

The sound now is not limited in the high frequencies like I found with the Aurender however. I think the “more confident” and open midrange is nothing to do with performance of the Merason, beyond the fact that it is more neutral than my Gryphon DAC.

I am NOT going to say I love the Merason until I’ve lived with it for some time and go back later to the Gryphon DAC. I suspect that whether I end up liking it or not is going to be dependent on two things: whether I am too attached to the coloration of the Gryphon DAC, and whether the Merason has enough detail for me.

Your reaction to Merason sounds similar to when you got the Aurender. 
Just sayin’ … 😃

Thanks @ghasley. I know the Merason isn’t end game, especially considering how comparatively inexpensive it is. Regardless of how it sounds now, I’m learning things about my Gryphon DAC module. People have said it’s got a little warmth but I now think that is a big understatement. The entire bottom end and mid bass has quite a lot of warmth, and it’s very detailed at the same time. I think that boosted lower frequencies is the reason I’ve felt the mids and vocals are recessed and overly delicate and small. I think it’s causing the midrange tension I spoke of. This is what happens when you boost lower frequency tone controls, the mids can become a bit pinched off. So what I am hearing with the Merason is I think mostly my ears adjusting to a more neutral presentation, where the midrange is more prominent and open. Have to say I like the coloration of then Gryphon DAC though - it is a pleasing tonal balance. But I think there are trade offs with the more constrained mids. It will be interesting to see if I can adjust and be comfortable with the more neutral presentation in the end. I hope so, and I think it’s possible.

@nyev 

Greetings. I wouldn’t listen too critically to the Merason until you get proper interconnects. Output from the balanced Merason outputs doubles up to 3v. The 1.5v output from the rca outputs combined with your “classic” Audioquest interconnects is a “thing”.

Again, be patient, take good notes. The Merason Dac1 is very good and after its been left on 24/7 it will improve…but it isn’t end game…this is really more of an experiment for you of what a solid performing, stand alone dac can bring to the table vs your inboard Gryphon dac. From its balanced outputs the sound will change considerably. Good luck.

I know it is far too early to be listening this critically. But you know how it goes, new toy and all…

I went back to the Gryphon Diablo DAC module for a bit. I realized that what I perceived to be more bass MAY be actually due to the Gryphon DAC being warmer leaning, with a more bottom-up presentation. I believe the Merason may be more neutral leaning, aside from the gentleness in the upper mids. I think it may have been in the Pursuit of the Perfect System review where the guy mentioned he thought the Diablo 300 was actually quite neutral and that the warmth people attribute to it is actually coming from the DAC and not the amp. I am thinking I might be agreeing with this now!

The Gryphon DAC is still better with detail resolution and spatial presentation, but as I mentioned, everything is just smaller, narrower and more delicate. Something I incorrectly attributed to Innuos above in this thread. My sincerest apologies Innuos! Things are more confident, coherent and “in the room” with the Merason. I know it may sound like I was saying about the Aurender N20. But the difference is with the Merason the sound is far more is wide open and I’m not missing any top end frequencies at all, as I was when the N20 was in my system.

@ghasley I have to thank you for convincing me to try an outboard DAC and suggesting the Merason DAC1.

My DAC1 arrived a bit early. I’ve quicky unpacked it and connected it using the very basic cables I have on hand. The unit is really in mint condition. With my Innuos gear, I can confirm the sound is very enjoyable and natural. The reviews I think are largely accurate. It is a hair less resolving than my amp’s DAC module, but it more relaxed, easy going, and less “wound up”. In comparison my amp’s DAC module has a tension to it that makes it less relaxing. Vocals and all sounds are bigger and less pinpointed/edgy than with my Gryphon DAC module. Vocals are also properly presented boldly and up front instead of being set too far back in the mix and made to be smaller when using my Gryphon DAC. Another quality I was unsure whether my Innuos gear or my Gryphon DAC was responsible for, until now. Now I know! I think my Gryphon DAC has a touch more of a full and bigger bass sound. I’m also noticing the slight smoothness of sound that many of the reviews mention. The highs are not rolled off at all, rather, upper mids are just easier going. Snare drums hit with clarity and crispness but they don’t jump out like a gunshot anymore when the volume is cranked. All of this makes for a very easygoing but engaging listen without resorting to a closed in sound.

The DAC1 is cold still from being delivered - it’s 41F outside now. Between that the basic Audioquest RCA interconnects (bought for $500 25 years ago), I think it’s likely I’ll get some better transparency once it warms up and once my fancy Shunyata cables arrive. And, I can always upgrade to the Mk2.

Just my very early and preliminary impressions. An interesting thing is, like when I had the Aurender N20, the DAC1 seems to address my nits with the Innuos setup. Or more accurately would be to say my nits with my Gryphon DAC module now that I know. The question is, whether I could get the degree of bass and transparency to be happy with it. Between warmup, replacing my basic RCA cables with the new balanced cables, and a possible upgrade to the MK2 version, I can see myself getting there potentially. Not to mention the introduction of the MU1 in a few weeks. With the Shunyata Omega AES. Fun times….

Update: by the end of this long post I am already hearing greater transparency one one song I had first played about an hour ago.

Update2:  Just realized the MU1 had better beat my Innuos gear.  Otherwise I’m at +1 boxes with an outboard DAC, regardless of whether I were to stick with my current Innuos gear or go with the Statement! Pulsar is an option I suppose but I do now value having a server…

@ghasley , a big correction on the DAC1. Merason got back to me and said this:

And same for the Bricasti and Holo May KTE!

Wow @smatsui if I had two systems like that I’d want to mix and match to compare different configurations!  Would be interested in the Aurender/Grimm face off.  Try both in one system and both in the other….

Informative thread, I just read all 9 pages and I’m interested what nyev settles on. I have a W20SE and a MU1 in 2 different systems and I’ve never compared them in the same system. Currently I have the W20SE connected to a Holo May KTE as such:

Router > DX Engineering ethernet RFI filter > Sonore OMD with Uptone LPS 1.2 > Etherregen with AfterDark OCXO clock each powered by a Paul Hynes LPS > Aurender W20SE > Revelation Audio SPDIF coax with BNC connectors > Holo May KTE.

My MU1 is connected via a Revelation Audio Labs cyro silver AES cable to my Bricasti M1SE with the latest DAC board installed in November 2022. I have a Innous PhoenixNET connected in front of the MU1.

I enjoy the sound of both of my systems and the streaming SQ is outstanding. I have to say that I like Roon better than Aurender’s Conductor app for a user interface. I’ve had my W20SE for about 1-1/2 years and the MU1 for about 5 months.

@nyev 

It states AES input at 24/96 on the website. I moved on some time ago and my current dac (Totaldac) is NOS 24/192 on that input, which aligns perfectly with the max of the Grimm. I was all in on DSD, never on MQA. A respected mastering engineer told me off the record (LOL) that he would never record in DSD unless it was "live". He explained its very cumbersome to edit in DSD. True or not, who knows. Convert final mix analog masters to DSD, he's all in...but if recording  digitally 24/192 is quite good.

@ghasley totally agreed.  I’m a fanboy of certain gear (my Diablo) but I’m also aware there are perfectly good reasons to go with a different amp that is equally good.  I’m also open to hearing other opinions and critiques of my prized amp.  I’m well aware of a couple shortcomings it has, but those shortcomings don’t bother me in the slightest.  I’m also aware that a Gryphon Essence setup would likely blow my Diablo out of the water, albeit with a different tonal presentation. And at a much higher cost, despite what people say about Essence being a “value” (which I don’t doubt).

Back to the DAC 1, I know Merason takes a “focus on the basics and nothing else” approach, but the AES limitation to 96k seems to be the only real limitation (arguably of course if you care about MQA and DSD support) of merit in modern times.  As such, I wonder if the DAC 1 MK 2 might support a higher bandwidth on its AES input.  I still have the option to upgrade to the MK2 for a very low cost.  @ghasley , do you happen to know?  I’ve sent a note to Merason to ask.

@nyev 

Frankly speaking, I hope your jaw drops when you hear your Gryphon dac. It would be really cool if there is a unique synergy between a server/streamer and your Diablo/Diablo dac. That was your original goal and to most of us, it is irrelevant whether it is an Aurender, Innuos, Taiko, Antipodes, Grimm, etc, etc. Certainly there are fan boys of some gear and while I'm quite happy with my Grimm, anyone who has experienced a Taiko knows there is more there, there.

Everything comes at a cost and regardless of what we each can/can't/should/shouldn't spend, we each punch out where it makes sense for us. For instance, I have have a dedicated room on the lower level of our home. When the heater/air conditioner kicks on I can hear the air from the vents. If I am seriously listening, I adjust the thermostat so it wont come on but usually, I just could care less. I set up the system to sound great in a reasonably quiet room but houses typically have some occasional noise. Every time I think of going more elaborate with my setup, I ask myself how crazy will I be the next time the HVAC kicks on and then I pump the brakes.

I'm certain an Audio Note Ongaku sounds better than my amp...its just not relevant to my circumstance or enjoyment. Some Audiogoners may even squeal a bit and protest when you pick a piece of gear OVER the piece of gear they have. Who cares? While I hope the Grimm is a good fit for you, only you can decide what you like. As I've said earlier in the thread, none of the gear you are trying will sound broken...some just check your boxes, with your gear, in your room all run through the filter of your preferences. I've had good friends love something that I didn't and vice versa....horses for courses they say. I preferred Grimm in direct comparison to Aurender and Innuos. Others prefer the opposite....but something I have yet to see in the forums is "I thought the Taiko sounded broken, flat, horrible".

Regarding cables, If the difference made by inserting $5k interconnects into your system is worth it to you, then its worth it. Don't let anyone tell you any different. Its ok to bring a gun to a knife fight.

Thanks @ghasley , all makes sense with the DAC1.  At 2X OS I can compare the DAC 1 and the Gryphon DAC and see who wins.  That will still be a valid test of how a very well regarded outboard DAC compares.  The used DAC 1 cost me relatively little and I can always sell it get a different DAC if it happens to win the test.  Maybe the Tambaqui, who knows. 

If my Gryphon DAC survives and I’m left with that and the MU1, I will have an uber AES interconnect between them, the Omega.  As far as I can tell my Gryphon’s AES input will go to 192k.

If the DAC 1 wins, I have a unnecessarily premium interconnect.

Ive heard from a couple reputable sources that the Grimm mu1 and mola mola tambaqui is a pretty magical combo. don’t underestimate the benefits of a world class dac with a world class digital source. i just got my lampizator horizon its a total game changer i had no idea the sound im hearing was even possible with my setup.

@nyev The Merason is 24/96 at the AES input. When I owned it I had an Innuos Zenith and fed it via USB. Since I never enabled Roon to upsample so I only fed it native resolutions. Regarding how it sounds with the Grimm MU1 at 2fs only, it will still sound good.

The Merason was suggested as a very solid, well executed, beautiful sounding dac for very reasonable money. It will give you a good idea of where on the performance bar your Gryphon dac board measures up. I suspect the MU1 will elevate the performance of your Gryphon dac via aes that you have yet to experience and the Merason dac will provide a very nice data point for comparison. IIRC the Merason runs dual mono with two dacs with true balanced outputs. Since the interconnects you’ve chosen exceed the $ value of the Merason, I also suspect that $3.5k-ish USD preowned invested in the Merason dac and the $5k-ish USD retail Shunyata interconnects will prove to be a less attractive value proposition than your Gryphon dac. (Subtle, tongue in cheek poke at you there haha) But this exercise should tell you alot. You can set the Grimm up as your roon core, attach the wonderful Shunyata Omega (v1 or v2?) AES/EBU cable to your Gryphon dac and you will hear all your Gryphon dac is capable of. You could also configure your Innuos as an endpoint feeding your phoenix and then via usb to your Gryphon dac and switch between the two streams conveniently.

Did I roll my eyes???? Yeah, I have to be honest I did a little bit LOL.

At the end of the day, try not to get too hung up on bit rates and focus on the sound. I predict that your opinion of your Gryphon dac will spike once you’ve heard it with the Grimm once its well run in. There are many roads to happiness with this exercise. Are there even higher performing solutions? Of course…for me, my system and my ears I found the Grimm to be first class experience for frequent flyer miles money. Let me clearly state though and you already know my feelings…dropping in $10kish USD of cables on the two sides of the Merason leaves me with heartburn although its your party, you get to design the menu.

@ghasley , just watched a highly technical review of the Merason DAC 1 and the reviewer states, twice, that the AES inputs are limited to 96k and only the USB goes to 192k. Is that true? If so, does this pose a limitation for the MU1’s up sampled AES output?

DAC 1 Review, see 6:18 and also mentioned earlier.

@ghasley you will roll your eyes I’m sure but I am going ahead with Shunyata Omega for the AES and Sigma V2 for the balanced analog interconnects. Made possible by my recent sale of the N20. Fought the FOMO, and lost….

I do recall how much I liked the Shunyata Omega PC, despite the fact that I ultimately picked the AQ Dragon over it.

The MU1 and the DAC 1 will have no excuses to not perform their best…

So I’ve been enjoying Bob Dylan’s Time Out of Mind Bootleg Series. MQA version. Not my typical music but the seller of my Merason DAC1 mentioned how much he was liking it and I have to say I’m really enjoying it too.

I was playing the MQA version of Bob’s sessions, and realized that I had years ago read up on all the controversy, went “huh” and promptly ejected it from my mind. So I read up on it again. Found out my current Diablo 300 DAC doesn’t support it. Then I wondered, does my Innuos gear deal with MQA? Went to check settings in Sense, and nope. Nothing about MQA, only DSD stuff. But wait! There’s a new version of Innuos software with press releases saying they now deal with MQA and is “core certified”. So I promptly updated my Innuos software to 2.3.1. And found by default Sense now does “the first unfold” for MQA. Naturally, I tried disabling it and…. I found things were definitely better with it enabled. Interesting!

Now, the Merason DAC1 doesn’t support MQA. And the MU1 seems like by design it encourages you not to worry about MQA beyond the first unfold by Roon. As it’s upsampling board can’t be used if you are passing the MQA stream to an MQA enabled DAC. I like this approach. Makes an argument that having an MQA-enabled DAC is really pointless with a MU1, because a big part of the reason you buy the MU1 is for the 4X upsampling. And you get that benefit even on non-MQA material.

That said I have to say the MQA unfold by Sense, feeding my non-MQA DAC module, sounds pretty good…. Really looking forward to seeing what the MU1’s upsampling can do in comparison.  Not really an apples to apples thing I know.  Just an interesting side note really with the latest Innuos update.

@richh84 , if the MU1 is better than my Innuos Zenith Mk3 and PhoenixUSB, with or without the outboard Merason DAC, I won’t likely bother with the Statement. The logic being that most who have experienced my Innuos gear and the Statement say that the Zenith and reclocker gets you 90% of the way towards the Statement (non Next Gen version). If however my current Innuos gear is equal or better than the MU1 in my system, then I 100% plan to trial the Statement. As I mentioned earlier Innuos kindly offered to send a demo to my local dealer who is not even an Innuos dealer.

I do think I might head the Shunyata route. Only because I’ve trialed their power cords before (Omega and Sigma NR v2) and was impressed, along with their level of customer service. Even if I didn’t end up buying last time. Plus, I’ve read so many accounts over the years of people saying how Shunyata interconnects sound, in general (which is consistent with how I felt their Omega power cord sounds), that I don’t think I’ll be overly surprised. But thanks for sharing your experience with Siltech. I do think I know what you mean about the benefits of silver/copper without the negatives however. Know people feel silver is harsh/fatiguing/revealing/overly lean, but I’ve not actually found any of that to be the case in my system with my components. Except for the revealing part, which I like. But my system seems to do okay even with poor, harsher recordings. Probably because my current DAC is known to be warm leaning. And possibly my amp too although there is some debate whether it’s the Diablo amp or DAC that provides the warmer mids. The Merason DAC1 is also reported to be revealing with a softer smoother midrange so that should be a really interesting comparison when it arrives.

If you get a chance try the Siltech classic legend cables. they use a silver gold alloy conductor. you get the best of silver and the best of copper sonics without the downsides of each is the easiest way to explain the sound. i replaced a few shunyata, wireworld and nordost cables in my main system and couldn’t be happier. and i feel understanding somewhat your sonic preferences this would be a good fit for you. also very interested in hearing your impressions of the innuos statement if you happen to go that route! right now i’m looking at the statement vs n20/n30 vs something like the pulsar or new Lumin U2.

@nyev I presently have a Shunyata Sigma v2 AES/EBU cable. I also have in house a Network Acoustics Muon AES/EBU cable to compare. I can’t reliably tell them apart in A to B and B to A testing. What does that mean for your application? Maybe nothing, maybe something…

Regarding interconnects, I have in the past settled in with Cardas or Transparent for XLR interconnects when I was using Audio Research ref gear. I am also fond of Audience interconnects and speaker cable although, since my setup today is single ended, I use a mix of Audience AU24 SX, Auditorium 23 and Audio Note. What does this mean for your application? Maybe nothing, maybe something.

@nyev I think in this instance you may be worrying about a problem that isnt a problem. Pick up some well made XLR interconnects and call it a day. There isn’t a great deal of sound difference between XLR interconnects…that’s a compelling reason to go XLR whenever possible.  I did hear a marked difference when I bought the Shunyata AES XLR digital cable to replace my previous one. The fact that the Network Acoustics AES XLR cable is very similar also speaks volumes given the price differential.

A couple of updates.

I sold my N20! I know. Too early as I hadn’t yet tried it with the Merason DAC1. Blind squirrel, three legged horse and all that…. But:

1. The N20 already taught me a lot as I said above. And the sound ultimately is not for me - I know… at least with my current DAC and in its three-legged horse masterclockless configuration.
2. A buyer who is a fan of Aurender approached me. And I know how long it can take to sell high value items.
3. I was able to get back my original expenditure, minus shipping, fees, etc.

Premature, I know, but an opportunity arose and I had to make a call.

Onwards. The MU1 and Merason DAC1 are inbound.

I am still without any AES cable or interconnects, and I need to return my overdue demo Audioquest Diamond AES! A dealer has valiantly tried and failed to become a Jorma dealer, to source a Jorma AES cable for me.

With that path a dead end, primary choices are to go with either Sablon or Shunyata AES and balanced XLR cables. Any suggestions which? I feel Sablon to be highly intriguing. But I also feel resale may be better with Shunyata. I feel either would be great. I want to go with Sablon but I feel a Shunyata might be wiser. After all, if I end up sticking with Innuos after all this, I’ll be selling both cables! Why not stick with the Audioquest Diamond AES that I’ve been demoing? Not sure. If I’m honest, maybe because I see a lot more buzz around a Shunyata and Sablon AES cables. Lots of people go on about the AQ Diamond USB but not really about the AQ AES or XLR interconnects.

@chopandchange 

I put the Grimm in front of a comparatively low cost Metrum Octave v2 DAC and even this lowly DAC sounded far better with the Grimm at the helm.

Having such a solid front end like the Grimm helps you find the best from any DAC you may have in your collection - and in fact will also help you choose and audition any new potential DACs you may want to buy, with the Grimm allowing you to hear them at their very best.

So starting with the Grimm and simply using an Octave DAC (as an example) until you can afford better makes for good foundations in choosing the right DAC further down the line. When you audition these DACs you can be sure you have no upstream bottleneck putting a throttle on the full potential of your new converter.

 Agreed!  Excellent logic and explanation. It is not simply "All about the DAC".

The quality and contribution of the digital source/signal is at minimum, as important and possibly more. Grimm MU1 -Metrum Octave is an excellent example.

Charles

@ghasley , I believe you are referring to the new MK2 version of the Merason DAC 1, which is 50% higher than before? Supposedly it’s been totally redesigned, and there are no reviews or firsthand accounts of the MK2, so I guess we can’t say quite yet whether the new version still punches above its weight at the higher price.

In my case, I purchased my mint MK1 version at a very reasonable price, and have the option to upgrade to the MK2 version at a very reasonable cost.

@chopandchange , your rationale makes sense to me. I too have found that earlier components in the digital chain are not limited by later, lesser components in the chain. As I mentioned before, Innuos demoed their new flagship $28k (CAD) Statement Next Gen paired with the Gryphon Diablo 300 integrated with its DAC module that I have, with the DAC module costing $10k (CAD). Although my DAC module cost 40% less when I bought it in 2019!

The MU1 costs about 35% more than the list price of my Gryphon DAC, so it’s not wildly out of whack from that perspective.  Although I did hear that the MU1 price is going up imminently.

“When you audition these DACs you can be sure you have no upstream bottleneck putting a throttle on the full potential of your new converter.”

+1, @chopandchange

Exactly! You can always explore better converter at later date. That’s one thing I always enjoyed and appreciated about Aurender streamers. 

@adasdad picking up on this response here from you

To me it just doesn’t make sense to put a $10K streamer in front of a $4,500 DAC.

I put the Grimm in front of a comparatively low cost Metrum Octave v2 DAC and even this lowly DAC sounded far better with the Grimm at the helm.

Having such a solid front end like the Grimm helps you find the best from any DAC you may have in your collection - and in fact will also help you choose and audition any new potential DACs you may want to buy, with the Grimm allowing you to hear them at their very best.

So starting with the Grimm and simply using an Octave DAC (as an example) until you can afford better makes for good foundations in choosing the right DAC further down the line. When you audition these DACs you can be sure you have no upstream bottleneck putting a throttle on the full potential of your new converter.

@nyev

Others may differ but I would suggest using reasonable XLR interconnects but to not go crazy. If you read up on the XLR standard, the standard was developed to minimize cable differences. I’ve had alot of good ones...did I hear differences between Mogami and Blue Jeans? No. Did I hear differences between Kimber and Transparent Ultra? Well....maybe? In other words, there may be some differences but certainly not enough (IMO) to merit a XLR interconnect cable quest at this stage of the game. If you have a pair of XLR interconnects, try those first.

RE: the Merason Dac1. I hope you enjoy it. Its a fine dac that punches well above its weight class. With that said, at its new retail price, it is a fair value for the money but no longer the "deal" that it was previously. This exercise will tell you where your Gryphon dac falls in a two dac shootout. What would be awesome, of course, would be if your Gryphon is preferable to the Merason. That would keep your goal of a two box, high performance setup in play.

@lalitk , 100%, I am very interested in all of the avenues we could choose to take with the products that I am choosing to spend some time to experience, even if I’m not planning to charge ahead and follow these paths. You and others on this thread obviously have a lot of knowledge and experience, not only on gear but the approach.

For me my time with the N20 has taught me more about me I think, than about the N20 itself. It taught me where my sonic priorities are, even when other presentations can be very alluring. I know I might “get there” following the path you have charted, but, I want to see which server takes me the furthest without going those extra steps. And to see what the external DAC can do. Not to mention that I prefer a simpler system, lol…

It was @ghasley who convinced me to try a good standalone DAC, as of course, I care about the sound of my system. But, I’m hoping it’s nothing but a learning experience and I get to sell my Merason after my time with it. I will however accept that my digital chain needs to include three boxes, as it is today (with my network switch, server and reclocker as it stands today), if the Merason wins.

I can even see a possible end to this particular journey being that I circle back to Innuos in the end - if I do I will go with the Statement. The difference with my N20 and my current Innuos setup has me wondering if there is some magic happening with my Diablo DAC module and the PhoenixUSB reclocker (which the Statement includes). Hoping when it arrives the MU1 will either confirm this, or it will be the one I prefer, but either way ideally without the Merason!

That said, I want to give the Merason the best chance I can. What are people using for XLR interconnects at this level?

@sc2, @rockrider

I have not tested N20’s USB or SPDIF outputs when N20 is being slaved to external clock. Since my DAC is a Network Attached DAC, the recommended configuration by the manufacturer is through RAVENNA network. In this configuration, I did hear substantial improvement when N20 slaved to my Merging +clock. So contrary to what Aurender manual says, a direct user experience always carries more weight in my opinion. As I said earlier, in my system adding a master clock was quite a revelation thus prompting me to bring in N30SA / W20SE for audition. For many out there, N20 should suffice. For me, I want to see how far I can push digital by upgrading the streamer and even a better clock down the road (yes, merging makes clocks at 3 performance tiers).

@nyev

I hope you view this conversation as another tool to further enhance the performance of your N20. Having said that, at this point in your journey where you’re still figuring out DAC’s, streamers; you needn’t worry about adding the Master Clock or additional cost associated with it. To answer your earlier question about “in terms of the degree of sonic improvement per dollar spent”, IME a better DAC, Streamer or even Master Clock yields much higher returns on your investment over a fancy Valhalla 2 USB cable. Of course, your rest of the system should be appropriately balanced to take advantage of ultra high performance of upstream components. Cheers!

Back to the masterclock topic for a moment, I did notice that the original seller of my N20 just very recently listed a After Dark masterclock that is a two box option, for what seems to be a reasonable price. What a weird model naming convention - Double Emperor or something. Not sure if this is compatible with the N20. Again, not going this route! I’m just curious.

@ghasley , thanks and yes I am sticking to my guns. I am not going to go the masterclock route, even though I don’t doubt the benefits that @lordmelton ​​​​and @lalitk report. I am merely curious about the approach and relative value.

Also, I decided to purchase one of the mint condition lightly used Merason DAC-1’s for a good price. Thanks for the suggestion. Considering the $ it’s no big deal if it doesn’t work out. Especially when you consider the amount I’m spending on severs not knowing if they will work out lol! I wanted to try this DAC in particular because it seemed to be one of the best bang for the buck options, and I couldn’t find an option in Canada where I could demo one. The only downside of the DAC-1 that I can see is it doesn’t do MQA or DSD. Not really concerned with that however as I don’t have DSD files, and haven’t really paid attention to MQA before. Although I hear it is supposed to be better.

I am still hoping I will end up selling the DAC1 and succeeding in my original goal of only one box feeding my Diablo 300 DAC module, but I’m really interested in seeing how the DAC 1 sounds. If the “worst case scenario” happens and the DAC 1 sounds better than my current DAC, the seller told me Merason told him he could upgrade the unit to the MK2 version for a very reasonable price (considering the MK2 costs 50% more than the MK1). The seller ended up instead getting a very expensive EMM DAC.

No clue at the moment what to use for balanced XLR interconnects.

@nyev just a reminder to stay focused on your goals and your plan.

@sc2 My DAC is Musetec not Mutec, although I'm very familiar with Mutec products.

Yes, I know what Aurender says but it's not accurate as far as my experience has shown.

@nyev hasn't been able to show any difference between AES and USB from the N20 even with a more expensive AES cable.

So take what Aurender says with a pinch of salt or better still audition yourself.