Garrard 301 - Project

@mdalton 

From what I can see, Audio Grail rebuilt is on par with Woodsong. I think the biggest differentiator between your 401 is high quality plinth + feet and then wall mounting + no subs. The way I see my options moving forward; order another 301 rebuilt or continue to tweak 301 on hand. 

@noromance @jperry @mdalton @fsonicsmith 

301 is up and running for past 6 days. It does sound pretty darn good with $15K tonearm/cart combo. Love the classic industrial appearance. I am still getting acclimated with its strengths and flaws in stock form and maybe jumping the gun here but I feel this is not a TT that sounds best in its stock form. The inherent vibration or energy from motor and plinth was out of control. I got it tamed for most part by isolating the plinth with IsoAcoustics mini pucks. I realize, a better isolation solution is probably the next step but what can or should do next to eliminate or reduce inherent vibrations. Perhaps, a aftermarket bearing, platter, idler wheel or even a better, denser plinth. 

Appreciate your input. 

It is incredibly difficult to assist in this situation. It is similar to addressing a hum problem someone is having with their electronics. Are you certain the problem is vibration from the motor? How did you determine that? Yes, the 301 motor is not the smoothest of all motors but if properly rebuilt it should not be causing a problem with SQ. As I have written before a specially designed PSU like the LDA (Long Dog Audio) will help. 

My best advice right now is similar to that given when there is a hum problem-start by eliminating things from your system. First and foremost should be your subs. IMHO, subwoofers and turntables simply don't play well together absent Herculean solutions such as placing the turntable in a separate room. 

My best guess-from afar-is that what you perceive to be motor induced vibration is actually some other form of distortion. Though your plinth is not the one I would have selected, it is very unlikely to be the problem. You don't need a fancy plinth for a 301 to sound great. I would instead focus on these things in this order;

1) Subs-remove and then if problem goes away, reposition or turn off when playing vinyl. 

2) Check the mounting and alignment of the Reed 3P-a pro ought to be considered. 

3) Check the cartridge alignment-again a pro like Brian Walsh ought to be considered. 

4) Have the motor serviced by a pro-I recommend Greg Metz of STS out of Nashville. 

5) Try a PSU. 

6) Relocate your turntable and investigate a different turntable rack-I happen to prefer Symposium.

7) Experiment with different footers-I have had far better results with Stillpoints over IsoAcoustics for the plinth. 

8) Only last do I recommend a new idler wheel unless you have some reason to believe that your existing idler is out of round. 

@fsonicsmith

Thank you so much for taking the time to chime in. This is exactly what I was hoping to hear from someone who has a deep understanding of Garrard.

The turntable and tonearm was professionally installed by my dealer. We went whole nine yards so I am ruling out bullet 2 and 3. Removing subs helped but not a long term solution, that’s why I am now using a phono with subsonic filter.

I would look into bullet 4 once I consult with my dealer (he is in Nashville too). My Garrard was completely rebuilt by Audio Grail, UK so I suspect it’s the motor but external PSU is definitely worth pursuing (and I will eventually).

Bullets 6-7 are in play this weekend as I am going to pull out my 800 plus lbs, Core Audio quad rack from storage and re-configure my system. Being on suspended floor + subs are not the best condition for turntable. Let’s see if changing out racks helps with chassis born vibrations.

Maybe if you would describe the nature of the noise that’s bothering you, others could more easily nail down the source. Tonearm and cartridge misalignment are sources of distortion for sure, but not the kind of distortion that falls into the category of “noise”. In a Garrard 301, you have to think of the motor and the drive system (idler wheel, platter bearing) first and foremost as sources of noise. When those are optimized, you’re left with the pluses and minuses of the design itself.

@lewm 

Sorry for being vague…the main issue is chassis vibrations. As I increase volume, the vibrations in plinth increases causing stylus to jump up or skip grooves. Day 1 was worse as even the footfalls were causing stylus to jump. After installing IsoAcoustics pucks, TT is now immune to footfalls. I can play records at reasonable volume but as I increase volume, I start to feel vibrations coming on when I touch the plinth. Subsonic filter is engaged and subs are ON. 

I am switching out much heavier rack tomorrow, hoping for better isolation from subs. 

@lalitk Sorry to hear you are having issues. It appears you are getting acoustic feedback. I doubt there is any issue with the AudioGrail work. It is most likely caused by your stand and suspended floor. Can you reinforce the floor from underneath? If your plinth is one of the hollow types, you may not have enough mass to damp structure-borne vibrations. I have no issues with big 12" REL subs. 

“It is most likely caused by your stand and suspended floor”
@noromance 

I suspect just as much. I am counting on my other rack which is roughly 3x in width and weight to provide better isolation. The plinth has a cavity / opening to accommodate Garrard motor and bearing. Wil know tomorrow if I need to look beyond the rack to further isolate the plinth. 

A Friend who is a through and through ID TT user has their Audio System Racks on a suspended floor. There has been various methods investigated / tried out to improve the TT from the Floor Up.

The Audio System Rack is mounted on a Sandbox Plinth, which I know has been claimed to have been substantial in improving things and is very little expense to put in place, even if made look aesthetically pleasing.

A simple method such as this is worthwhile investigating.

The alternative Rack being referred to being 3 x the Width, could have Pedestal Sand Boxes produced to be able to take the support legs of the Rack only?

My own investigations and trials for mounting the Audio System Rack. Has Three Tiers of different isolation materials used before the Steel Plate Base Plinths are mounted on these. The racks are seated on the Steel Plates with a separating footer. Additionally, the Racks are rigidly braced. The TT is seated on a Sub-Plinth Assembly with Solid Tech Feet of Silence as the Footer in direct contact with the TT.

1, The Sub-Plinth Assembly under the Rack does create a discernible difference to the Rack being in direct contact with the floor. Speaker users are knowing about the benefits if using various methods to interface with the floor on any floor type.

2, Rigidly Bracing a Rack is in my experience very discernible as the betterment to the Rack left free standing. My Racks are braced together (my method not so aesthetically pleasing), as well as being rigidly coupled to the wall structure. Assessing this is easy as both are easy to release and A/B compare, both coupling methods in my set up have been very beneficial.

3, Producing support structures under the TT can be undertaken at a variety of costs and even more permutations for Plinth Materials and Footers used as separators and then the TT’s Mounting Feet. Working with the various options of permutations is where the real magic occurs. To really get the benefits it is best when done as the last exercise of the three treatments.

There is not a ubiquitous methodology for this one, I have loaned out many materials to be used on other systems, as the Mount for the Source, the differing environments and methods used to support the Rack, as well as the Rack Type creates very different outcomes of how a material is assessed for its impact on the end sound. Perseverance wins through.

If any of the other suggestions offered by other contributors for the TT are followed up on. The benefits that are yet to be discovered will be even further benefiting when experienced on a Mounting System that is addressed from the Floor Upwards.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/turntable-isolation-journey

@lalitk 

Just for clarification, do the issues disappear entirely if you turn subwoofer(s) off?

@mdalton 

I honestly don’t recall, I must have gone through half a dozen configuration. I can’t check again until everything is put back together, hopefully by tomorrow. 

Sorry for being vague…the main issue is chassis vibrations. As I increase volume, the vibrations in plinth increases causing stylus to jump up or skip grooves. 

This helps tremendously. So without a doubt your problem is not the motor, not the plinth, and a PSU is not the immediate answer. 

The mere fact that a dealer set it up means little in my book. The Reed 3P is at once both easy and tricky to set up. AS in particular can easily be set way too high. Back the magnetic AS quite a way (reducing it) and increase your VTF to the max within your cartridge specs. See if that helps a little. Make sure your deck is level and rock solid in terms of how it sits on your rack (not subject to rocking). 

Your problem though is one of isolation. One way or another your Garrard is set up in an excited/lively zone of your room. It could be in a room node, it could be over a particular springy portion of your floor or both. Bracing your floor joists from underneath ought to be considered. A massive, rigid, equipment stand positioned away from any room node and positioned over a solid portion of your suspended floor is extremely likely to eliminate your problem. Imho, IsoAcoustic pucks are not the proper form of isolation under your plinth. You want to drain energy, not absorb it. Once your rack/stand is ideally situated, mount Stillpoints or similar to the underside of your plinth. 

In the the real world where a bunch of equipment is already positioned-I looked at your virtual system-most of us don't have the energy (pun) to reconfigure the room just to accommodate a turntable. So I realize my implementing my recommendations are easier said than done. 

There is one advantage of repositioning equipment, even if only Temporary.

Such an investigation should cost very little monies and now the TT is set up, the only treatment for the TT following relocation, should be to re-level the Platter. 

There is lots that can be learned about looking out for the needs of the styli, when used for the role in the groove to produce mechanical energy to be converted to a a very low voltage electrical current.

The Styli will receive ambient energies, of which certain types are able to adulterate the energy generated by the groove modulation.

As the methodologies for reducing transferred energies to the Styli improves, the end result is the perception of the end sound increasing in presenting as tidied up sound improves.

Platter Mats also fall in to the considerations for control measures.     

“Your problem though is one of isolation”

@fsonicsmith

I agree. I spent the weekend reconfiguring my system by switching out to a much heavier rack and pulled out couple of digital components that weren’t in the system due to limited rack space. I end up dusting some of my favorite CD’s..lol!

Back to TT, things improved greatly but not to a degree where everything is perfect. Thankfully, no external feedback from subs, internal vibrations are tamed 95%. IsoAcoustic pucks removed and TT is back on Finite Elemente slim cerabase temporarily until I find a better solution. I have uploaded new pics in my virtual system.
https://www.audiogon.com/systems/11092

It’s a work-in-progress, still long ways to be on par with my Streaming setup. Thanks again for your invaluable advice.

My local dealer puts 301, 401 and Thorens 124 tables into ultra expensive systems.  He likes the Ortofon tonearms with these tables.  This past weekend, he was showing off a extremely pretty to look at 301 in a gloss veneer plinth and a brand new Tri-planar tonearm.  That is the one quite expensive arm he likes and a customer was interested in it.  When Koetsu folded up shop, he bought as many cartridges that were still available that he could find.  For this table, he used an Urushi Vermillion from his remaining stock.  The system with this table in it sounded fantastic--bold, big and lush.  

@lalitk 

good development.  How does 301 at this point compare with the SME when you had it in your system?  And whatever happened to the Koetsu that you purchased?

“How does 301 at this point compare with the SME”
@mdalton 

Too early to make any assessments cause 301 is not completely dialed in. But I do see myself enjoying 301, for a very long time. SME 15AV is a great sounding TT, much quieter and robust than the 301 on hand. And it has lot to do with the plinth. If there is a weak link, it’s the plinth. I cannot recommend DAS Acoustics for 301/401 plinths to anyone…the interactions, quality of build fell way short of my expectations. 

Koetsu deal fell through so hopefully there will be another opportunity to own a Koetsu in near future. 

The individual who I reference for materials worthwhile considering for Plinth Builds does the materials testing.

This same individual has made it known that a Modeller Putty known as Newplast, is excellent as a substance for improving the Damping Properties of materials in use that don't measure with an attractive Damping Factor.

A treatment with this within the rebated area of the Plinth and concealed underneath might be the way to extract more of what is being looked for.

Update; Added Viablue spikes and TriBase to plinith (found them in my closet). Gain another 3dB in volume without further introducing any vibrations. I am now at volume where I can comfortably listen to the record’s.

Now the big question, invest further in a SRA type platform or pursue one of SMD Acoustics Bespoke Plinth‘s

https://www.peakhifi.co.uk/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command=ShowProduct&db_pid=882

And bite the bullet also upgrade the bearing,

https://www.peakhifi.co.uk/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command=ShowProduct&db_pid=718

Let's back up. Which platter are you presently using? I am a huge proponent of sourcing the very best after-market bearing available and have done that with both. my hot-rodded Thorens TD124 and Garrard 301 but I also sourced heavier platters than the OEM on each. On the other hand, there is something magical about the OEM lightweight 301 platter and OEM bearing, particularly the grease bearing. Considerations boil down to the STYLE/character of the sound you seek. The heavy duty precision bearing and heavier platter produce a more neutral and arguable "cleaner, quieter" sound, the OEM platter and bearing provide a more propulsive and dynamic sound that may be noisier, but is more fun. 

Let's go big picture though; neither the upgraded bearing nor the custom plinth is going to solve your problem. You have a feedback/isolation problem. Your loudspeakers are essentially overpowering your tonearm/cartridge/record interface. If you have a handy friend (or an available contractor) please try my relatively easy-to-implement trick of bracing the floor joists under your equipment rack from underneath. This can be done on a temporary trial basis. Try 4x4 vertical posts wedged as tightly as possible without unleveling your suspending floor against the joists. That said, this will not eliminate airborne energy overpowering your turntable isolation. At some point repositioning your loudspeakers and even considering a different loudspeaker (and subs) may be required. Many of us fixate on the loudspeaker when putting our systems together and end up with a speaker that is simply too large and emits too much energy for the owner's listening room. Then "we" wonder why the sound does not match ones expectations. We can call this the "Magico Syndrome". For example, in my relatively small room my Devore O/93's are perfect and their bigger brother, the O/96's, as much as I love them more in a vacuum (larger room) would do the very same thing in my room as you are currently experiencing. 

But yes, I would never have chosen a DAS plinth. Greg Metz provided me with one and mounted my 301 in it when I bought my NOS 301 from him. I could not get rid of it fast enough. Luckily for me, Russ Collinson of Layers of Beauty was still building incredible custom plinths at the time. And please, try Stillpoints when you upgrade your plinth. You might try contacting Steve Dobbins of Xact Audio for advice. He offers his own design of 301 platter and plinth and is a huge advocate of Stillpoints for 301's. 

You might check SPH bearing. Word has it that it sounds better than most others. I use 2 of them. 

Have you tried springs under the plinth? Test with Nobsound online for $35. I use them. 

Look for my posts on both.

Further, Matthew of AudioGrail sells a plinth. Only one 12" arm but you might reach out for advice.

I know the SPH Bearing will and it does create very noticeable improvement over the standard bearing when compared on GL 75 ID TT's.

Other make good reports about the other TT's these are produced for.

One other method is to have the 301 Original Bearing produced to have not Metal on Metal Contact possible to occur, by having Thermoplastic Parts produced to create the tightest of tolerance interfaces between Spindle Bush and Spindle, as well as having the Thrust Pad produced from Thermoplastic as well.

@fsonicsmith 

All good suggestions…. there maybe options that might not require altering the flooring but could still offer some isolation from vibrations. I do have future plans to replace the carpet with wood flooring, may be at that time I could possibly address the ‘bracing’ underneath my rack. As far replacing the speakers and subs, that’s not going to happen. I am considering all cost-effective isolation platforms or feet under the 301 to see if that helps mitigate the issues.

I know my room and speakers /subs are not the problem based on my experience with fabulous SME 15AV TT.  The 15AV was rock solid and completely immune to any of these feedback/isolation issues. 

@noromance

Sorry I missed your post. Spring base isolation and Stillpoints are next on my list. And I am gathering information on all the available bearings and then going to decide which one gets my $$$. As far Audio Grail plinth, I just don’t care for ‘boxy’ looking plinths..lol!

My biggest concern heading into this project was,

1) am I going to like the sound of 301, and

2) rebuit quality, ease of use.

Both of these are answered to a great degree. I kinda knew 301 won’t be perfect from get go…I chalk this up to my inexperience and couple of poor choices. Despite of its challenges, I’m enjoying spinning records on 301. So 301 is not going anywhere, I honestly see myself keeping 301 around for a long time and tweak it further with parts like bearing, platter and even change out plinth to further elevate its performance.

Also do not overlook the 'fact' the Platter is receiving side force that will add a force to the Platter Spindle.

Think of the Bearing Housing fastened into a quite thin metal as an anchor point. The Force on the Platter that is also being loaded into the Spindle will be encouraging the Bearing Housing to route force into the interface between Bearing Housing / Chassis.

Flexion is to occur and will be most amplified at the Base of the Beating Housing.

Eccentric Rotation can be occurring at the Bearing Base, that is then in a lesser degree being produced at the Spindle.

 The overhang of the Platter Rim from the Spindle and Platter Mass will assist with amplifying rotations that are eccentric. 

A Styli in a Groove in such an environment is going to be functioning in a way that is not allowing for it to be a optimised interface in the groove.

Bracing the Bearings Base, or Rigidly Coupling the Bearing Housing Base is a long time seen fix on TT's that have the potential to produce a flexion in the Chassis, that is at its worst when impacting detrimentally on the Bearing Housings Base. 

A lot can be achieved if keeping the original Bearing Housing and producing mod's for it, most replacement bearings seen today as a commercial offering, are only a end design that utilises plagiarized DIY Designs. 

As a point of reference : Has anyone here ever heard a Garrard 301 in its original plinth ?  You know ---- the one that the designers of this marvelous TT chose as its companion plinth ?

Original Plinths for Idler Drives of which I owned a 401 original Plinth were built with basic cabinetry assembly practices and were creating a larger air Void.

The non rigidity of the Cabinet ( think Syli requirements) and the large Volume of air caused audible resonance when transferred to the Styli.

Plinths today are usually seen with tight tolerance rebates for the TT to bed into and the Plinth Structure is substantially rigid.

The magic really occurs when the materials for the structure are able to Damp/Dissipate energies produced very effectively, hence the Styli is working in a much improved environment.

It is all about the Styli sensitivities to received energies, keeping the energy passed from the Styli to become the electrical signal to undergo various stages of gain as unadulterated as can be achieved at the Source, which is the Styli.        

@pindac @mdalton @noromance

My Garrard 301 is finally free from the gremlins of air and floor born energy. The solution…20 years old Final Laboratory Daruma 3-II’s from my closet. They have managed to effectively float the turntable thus freeing the TT from any mechanical vibrations. They are very similar to Symposium Rollerblock Jr. I just need to be careful to not knock off my TT off the rack with my knees…LOL!

Atleast now I can focus on finding a more stable ‘isolation’ solution and not think about replacing the plinth.

@lalitk I have stated in an earlier Post:

" 3, Producing support structures under the TT can be undertaken at a variety of costs and even more permutations for Plinth Materials and Footers used as separators and then the TT’s Mounting Feet. Working with the various options of permutations is where the real magic occurs. To really get the benefits it is best when done as the last exercise of the three treatments.

There is not a ubiquitous methodology for this one, I have loaned out many materials to be used on other systems, as the Mount for the Source, the differing environments and methods used to support the Rack, as well as the Rack Type creates very different outcomes of how a material is assessed for its impact on the end sound. Perseverance wins through" .

@lalitk Now the keenness to resolve the mechanical interface has been addressed with vigour and experimentation the solution for one particular and unique environment has been discovered, which from my end brings the notion, your now on your Journey with the Pedal to the Metal.

I still remain firm on the notion, further tidying up of the end sound is able to be discovered, but do ’encourage’, a period of tome to allowed for, to enable thoroughly enjoying the music encounters now to be had for an extended period. It is now important to become very familiar with the attractions being presented during the music replays that are now available to be perceived by yourself.

Many Years Past, a selection of the UK Idler Drive users were Wed to Barry Diament’s guidance for Vibration control, especially the Roller Bearing Footers.

It looks like your footers are quite similar as a function.

It is also widely suggested in the UK that Townsend Isolation Platforms started out as a Product from using the Diament design for a inflated supported platform.

As the Diament suggestions for methods are very affordable and achievable, and in the case of this Thread been successful, the Link will be good to review.

https://barrydiamentaudio.com/vibration.htm

The idea of Perseverance wins through, is the real requirement to create the conditions that work as the perceived optimal set up.

I have been questioned on this, to the point the suggestion is not much more is to be achieved. I do not yield to the idea, there is a reason to stop, honing mechanical interfaces for the benefit of a Stylus to function at it optimised, is for myself when participated in, a real time enjoyment. .

@pindac 

Thanks for your post and the link to the article. It does makes sense. I’ve been determined to make things work and so glad that I’m finally able to enjoy my TT . The root of the problem is my suspended flooring. One of the poster already suggested addressing the flooring by installing Jack posts to firm up the flooring. That’s a long term solution, unfortunately not in the cards right now. I do realize the need to address this as some of the boards have loosened (normal a for 17 years old home) underneath the carpet. 

The lengths we go to, just to spin a bloody record…LOL!  
 

@lalitk That is good news. As long as you are hearing the best qualities of the turntable system. When I experimented with supports and feet, I noticed that tightness, speed, extension, and intensity were impacted by materials and solutions necessitated by compromise. 

@lalitk The time now is to forget 'what was' and enjoy the 'what is'.

The obvious audible intrusion has been tamed, it will be a period of time, before the wish to bring to forefront a sonic that is detected as being not the most attractive is desirable to be tidied up. You are with quite a few trials of different permutations for support to be utilised, before Propping Flooring is the treatment.

In case I forget. the Diament Guidance, suggests the Roller Bearing will work on improvements to isolation in the Horizontal Axes, there is still Guidance on how to treat the Vertical Axes to have an improved Isolation. There are many who have done this and have found it to be of value. A said, there is also those who are strongly suggested to have built their Business offering the method.          

“materials and solutions necessitated by compromise. ”
@noromance

I hear you. That’s the first thing I wanted to analyze by adding the roller blocks underneath the plinth. During my 3 hours listening with different reference recordings, I noticed no compromises in dynamics or tonality of music. If anything, we gained clarity and solidarity in playback…everything sounds right. I am able to crank up the volume without causing or adding any kinds of distortions to the sound.

It’s a huge WIN, and all I want to do is buy more records, unwrap & clean and play them on my Garrard 301 😊

Thank you all for sticking through my journey.

When setting up support structure for a Stylus to perform at its optimised / close to  optimised. My experiences had, has discovered that 2mm (1/16) in a thickness of a materials used under the Stylus can make a major difference.

The TT is not up and running at present, but because I was very impressed by the AT 677 Mat, I have a Micro Seiki Copy of a Mat made in very similar metal to the AT 677, but at a 10mm, approx' (3/8) thickness.

Forex Foam Mats used as 5mm Thick Mat, are in my set up extremely attractive in use on both ID TT and DD TT's. Take the same material mat in less than 5mm, when used in my system on a DD TT, the outcome is the usage is very short lived. This material type at lesser thicknesses does not perform attractively. 

The same outcome occurred on a system in another Home on a BD TT, the system owner was so impressed with the 5mm Mat I gifted it to them.     

@pindac 

Good point! Platter mats is something I’ve not experimented with yet. I went with Herbies Audio Lab ~ Way Excellent II Turntable Mat in 4mm thickness. They make good stuff so it was an easy choice without driving myself insane over plethora of available options. 

https://herbiesaudiolab.com/products/way-excellent-ii-turntable-mat?variant=12654105919543

@lalitk 

Excellent news.  So where are you with respect to your various decision trees (cartridge, SUT, etc.)?

@mdalton

I am very happy with Etsuro Bordeaux. I do need a mono cartridge, thinking about recently released Hana SL Mono MK II. I also upgraded my phono board with Accuphase Integrated to AD-60 and returned Allnic phono since it was not a day n night upgrade over my AD-60. Once AD-60 fully burn-in, I am going to pursue an SUT, very likely HM-7 or Etsuro. Too bad, SUT’s are not returnable, my decision would’ve been lot easier. Also looking at 301 spindle and platter combo but this looks like a late December or early January purchase.

Are you using an external PSU with your Garrard 401? I know there is a LDA option but then also found this on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204976080738?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=xwT6lKLYQXq&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=LfCp7wcARee&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

@lalitk 

What specifically do you not like about the DAS plinth?  I believe yours is constructed with a slab of MDF on the top.  That's how he builds the plinths with the radiused edges because he can't wrap the radiused edges with veneer.  If it were plywood, you'd see the layers of ply at the radius.

Do you think the top MDF layer has any negatives?  Is the TT chassis coupled to the MDF layer or is it coupled to the next layer of plywood below the first layer of MDF?  I believe DAS mentioned to me that the TT chassis actually sets on the MDF layer, but it was a long time ago and I may be misremembering.

I am very familiar with much of what occurs in the UK with Idler Drives, and the Power Supply in the Link is a New Brand and New Model to me.

As stated in other posts, the LDA, is a very difficult design to surpass.

MDF is basically wood dust and glue. The reason MDF has no purchase when you screw into it is because the glue is the most expensive component, and the manufacturers only put enough in to just hold the wood dust together and no more. It is designed as a very low cost material. I worked for a number of years in the timber industry.

When you buy something like DAS plinth you are buying weetbix wrapped in xmas paper.

This doesn’t necessarily mean it will sound bad, it simply means you are buying a plinth that’s full of wood dust and glue.

Personally on my 301 I used a hybrid of compressed bamboo ply and birch ply. Bamboo ply is harder than Maple, can be CNC’d ( I did mine myself ) and provides a stable platform that won’t warp over time. It is not pretty though, which appears to be important for some folk.

I do not use wood veneers because they are not stable and eventually you can see all the joins and I personally can’t stand that. If I wanted a wood finish I would do a shindo style laminated solid wood block plinth.

@dover 

"When you buy something like DAS plinth you are buying weetbix wrapped in xmas paper."

That's a little harsh, no?  I think most (maybe all) DAS plinths are 100% birch ply (not counting the veneer obviously) with the exception of the ones with rounded top corners that I mentioned above.  Those have one layer of MDF on the top.

Look at these pics.  These are all birch ply since they do not have large radiused top corners.  Why would you call that a weetbix wrapped in xmas paper?  Not trying to argue at all.  Just trying to understand what you're saying.  Seems like pretty solid construction to me.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/LO4AAOSwnz9h20LM/s-l1600.webp

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/o-UAAOSwcVphkLUw/s-l1600.webp

Bamboo Board with three tiers as the minimum and compressed on both planes, is a improved Board for intrinsic Damping/Dissipation Properties over most of the usual board types seen used for Plinth construction.

A 401 listened to, mounted on a Compressed Bamboo Board Plinth, is my most impressed listen I can recollect. 

Compressed Bamboo Board as referred to above does not cost too much. As a ,material it can be further enhanced for the attractive intrinsic properties, by applying thinned oils for it to absorb. I recollect seeing Shellac referred to as well as a Treatment to improve the properties, all good on my camp, as aesthetics are also being dealt with as well.

“What specifically do you not like about the DAS plinth? 
@ketchup

The finish and build quality leaves lot to be desired, certainly not worth the asking price. Others may disagree with my assessment and that’s ok. The plinth is on the lighter side and lacks appropriate mass needed to reject the excess energies produced by the motor and the platter bearing. You probably know this, a poorly made plinth will store and then amplify those energies with such efficiency that they encroach upon the music. I may not have the worst made plinth but it is certainly not what I had hoped for. 

The plinth appears to be made from constrained plywood and layered with a polished veneer. The bottom plate may very well be MDF layer for all I know. It took lot of experimenting with different footers to drain the negative energies away from plinth. It’s working well for now, however I wouldn’t hesitate to replace it when I cross path with something wildly superior; both in terms of build and aesthetics.

To have the most attractive aesthetic does add cost, especially if a professional Cabinet Maker Service is to supply fascia materials and carry out the finishing. Spray Paint Coating as a Fascia Finishing can be much more cost effective.

I am today more Wed to a aesthetic that has Honesty, the structure is not masked.

Mass Plinth and Idler Drives are from an era, when not too much was known about materials that are with an intrinsic property for Damping/Dissipation. 

There are extra options today for selecting a Plinths function. Where Mass is a Sink to absorb motor energy, reducing energies transferred through the Platter to the Stylus. Damping/Dissipation, where energies are canned through the material and substantially reduced in their impact on other local materials. 

There is plenty to be read on a forum like Lenco Heaven, to produce a basic idea for how each in use are perceived. 

My recollections are those who moved on from a Mass Plinth have not returned to the structure. Damping/Dissipation has its attractions.

I am also in the prefer Damp/Diss Camp. 

I have been enjoying analog bliss for past month or so. There is something very endearing about Garrard 301. Is it the timeless classic design or the toe tapping musical engagement…maybe little bit of both. 301 is a keeper!

I believe it’s time to further explore and maximize my investment. So, I ordered a heavier/thicker aluminum platter (topped with gun metal matt) and brass oil bearing to try it out. And more importantly, a custom plinth with dual arm boards. Opted for much sought after Hawaiian Koa in Satin finish with Brass arm-boards. The plinth weighs about 85lbs and arguably his best work off late. I can’t wait to experience it in my Man Cave…expected delivery around April 2025.

Cheers!

@mdalton 

SUT will be here after Capitol Audio for further exploration :-) 

@lalitk 

who’s doing your plinth?  Re SUT, is that the Etsuro?  And I’ll be at CAF - let me know if you’re coming.

@mdalton 

Plinth - Same source as yours :-) As far as SUT, very likely EMIA as a test case and then I will decide between Hashimoto or Etsuro. I won’t be at CAF but plan on going to AXPONA 2025. 

@mdalton 

I took a slight detour and bought Softone Model4 Equalizer. It appears to mate well with LOMC carts. Since I already own few NOS 12AX7/ECC803S tubes so it should be fun tweaking this little gem. Will know how good this thing sounds by end of the month.

Here is the product link

http://softone.a.la9.jp/english/Model4/m4-1.htm