Garrard 301 - Project

@lalitk  I was looking at your room and can't make out if it's a basement or an attic–like over the garage type of bonus room. 😏 

Ha! I can't win for losing! Care to elaborate?

Based on my experience, I won’t be buying anything from Aric Audio (new or used). 

@macg19  I haven’t heard either so I’m not recommending them per se, merely offering examples. However both have had solid reviews from trustworthy (known personally) posters over the years. I have heard the Gold Note and wasn’t impressed. Too dull. The Aric is customizable at the build stage. Better components are critical. 

@lalitk  I really think you can do better on the phono stage. You are running pretty a much state-of-the-art (within reason) turntable suite and feeding it into a basic phono amp (Softone #4). This is really compromising the analog end of things. 
I know you mentioned budget so this might be a better option.
Or an Aric Audio Super MC/MM Phono with some options. YOLO,

I’m finding the new Lond0nDecca somewhat disappointing. The prices are off the charts compared to what JW was doing. The Super Gold retailed at $1900 and now it’s a thousand bucks more. They no longer offer the Paratrace service option on non-Reference models. Decapods seem to be gone. $150 up front to look at cartridges in for service. I’d like to see more transparency on the service costs. The Reference was always a $5k cartridge, LD upped it to a fair $6500 8 months ago and now it’s $8500 and the Jubilee has almost doubled to nearly $6k. I guess I’m just old school and haven’t moved with these expensive times. On reflection, I should be grateful that someone has picked up the task of keeping these amazing cartridges going. 

I’m a fan of the Pablo Basie records: The Gifted Ones, Basie & Dizzy Gillespie, The 3 Basie Jams, Basie & Zoot Sims. I’ve a bunch of his big band work but the later ones above are just wonderful. 
Speaking of Joe Williams, his A Man Ain’t Supposed to Cry album is an outstanding vocal work. A must have.

@lalitk  Note that we were talking about the Tele ECC803S which is never under $700 (used). It's a premium ECC83. 

Yeah, Side by Side is solid. 

@larryi  As you know, you could buy ECC803S for £6.95 each back in the 80s. Now they’re over $1000 each NOS.

Cheers @lalitk 
I only have a Muggsy Spanier album on that label.

@lalitk  Good to hear and thanks for following up. How is the vinyl and remaster quality of the Ben Webster Plays Ballads album. I've a damaged original and forgot about replacing, and frankly was hesitant to get the new RM for fear of it being damaged by the digital process!

@lalitk Great. Give them a few days to settle in before judging. 

I made that suggestion months ago! 

noromance
12-04-2024 at 12:16am 
I haven’t heard an amp that hasn’t been improved by rolling in old production Telefunken ECC83/12AX7.

@dover Funny, I had a drawer full of the box plate Mullards you mention. Nice if one likes creamy, warm, and slow, with no air. I'll concede that Teles can be a little lacking in warmth. However, I maintain that you can adjust tonality elsewhere in the system without slowing it all down in the phono amplifier.

Link to my aforementioned Black Treasures.

I haven’t heard an amp that hasn’t been improved by rolling in old production Telefunken ECC83/12AX7. Failing that, Grant Fidelity have a Black Treasure 12AX7 that is wonderful.

@lalitk That is good news. As long as you are hearing the best qualities of the turntable system. When I experimented with supports and feet, I noticed that tightness, speed, extension, and intensity were impacted by materials and solutions necessitated by compromise. 

Further, Matthew of AudioGrail sells a plinth. Only one 12" arm but you might reach out for advice.

You might check SPH bearing. Word has it that it sounds better than most others. I use 2 of them. 

Have you tried springs under the plinth? Test with Nobsound online for $35. I use them. 

Look for my posts on both.

@lalitk Sorry to hear you are having issues. It appears you are getting acoustic feedback. I doubt there is any issue with the AudioGrail work. It is most likely caused by your stand and suspended floor. Can you reinforce the floor from underneath? If your plinth is one of the hollow types, you may not have enough mass to damp structure-borne vibrations. I have no issues with big 12" REL subs. 

@tomic601 Received the photos. Thank you. Audiogon can wait until the fishing season is over. All in good time. 

@lalitk @tomic601 Yay for "flip!" Jim - need more photos of your recent updates!

You were of course the source of inspiration behind my switch.

@pindac Indeed. I search or sort my collection in the Discogs database. This always turns up some nuggets. Note that I have my collection stored record store style, not library book style.

exposing Albums in the collection that are easily overlooked

@lalitk Like the person who can find everything among a seemingly chaotic mess, I know where most albums reside. Seriously, I group jazz, blues, male vocal, female vocal, rock, folk, theatrical, and classical. All artists are grouped together no matter what category they’re in. I don’t use dividers or formal delineation.

@lalitk Have you listened to the rig yet, or are you psyching yourself (and us) up for the big reveal?

@gladmo All good. 

No fuse on any of mine. I can’t imagine any benefit from adding one. I wire mine directly to the motor make-off block—no IEC etc. connectors—using a vintage flexible tinned copper cable.

@lalitk Indeed. I may have even advised that at one stage! 

@lalitk Checked out the new 301 and plinth. Looks great. I see Matthew went with the standard rubber idler and not the Audiosilente one.

I've used the Precision Audio Components 20mm oversize aluminum platter on 2 tables. It's the one sold by Classic Turntables. It brings improvements to bass, and soundstage size. I use the SPH bearing. Reviews indicate it sounds better than the CTC one. It's east to fit. No need to flip but access to underneath chassis is required. 

I’ve heard this from a number of old-school idler fans. However, I’ve two 401s with the Audiosilente idler and both sound better than the originals. The 401s were refurbished and therefore the original idlers were in good condition before substitution. I suspect the increased detail and blacker backgrounds were not what they were looking for.

I don’t know why, but he did not like AudioSilente idler wheels.

@tomic601 Jim, I may have taken liberty with the actuality of the Graveyard! It is conceptual in intent. Korf were good enough to accept the return. As was Audio Sensibility.  I do have the SPH copper platter mat among the usual assortment of tubes, cables, old turntables, amps, etc.

@lalitk I’m inferring from the sable color that you are buying your 301 from Matthew Taylor. Re virgin stock units, he’s been supplying Audiosilente idlers on newer refurbished units. Do you know if yours will have one fitted? I would also check with him to ensure both upper AND lower idler bearings are replaced.

What plinth did you go for? Apologies if you’ve already stated it above.

@lalitk Congrats on that. I saw your comment on mulveling's post. What arm are you using?

@pindac It would be wonderful to see photos. Please consider setting up an entry in Virtual Systems, or by the utilization of a preferred photographic sharing utility. One can describe beauty in endless prose but beholding the vision is the revelation.

@pindac  Back in the 80s, we had a Garrard 301 motor unit mounted on four toilet rolls. With a Grace 707 arm. It sounded better than sitting on granite. Perhaps the roll of paper acted as very fine layers of wood.

@lalitk  Hmmm, they lost me at loss of detail.

See more comments on sound here

If you’re looking for spotlit detail, then it won’t be for you.

@lalitk Yes. I don't use any. I used to use a 10" record with acceptable results. The best I've heard was a thin, soft, vinyl-type compound used in @slaw MyMat. However, it's worth experimenting. I did not like graphite or copper. Forget cork. 

Do you feel the same way about mats?

@lalitk Possibly predictably, I’m not a fan of damping or locking things down. Listening without sounds more open and free. You can buy a reasonable device on Amazon for $27 which looks great but doesn’t add anything. I know. It’s in the graveyard. PS Jeff's a great guy. 

@pindac I know who said it, obviously. I'm not sure it matters. This is not a trial by fire. 😉 I looked into using Panzerholz myself, having worked with plans and quotes with a respected builder. I may revisit. 

An interesting statement, I wonder who said it ?

@pindac Indeed. Although, I have a graveyard of parts that came with big promises. The most recent rejected items were the Korf ceramic headshell, the SPF 1.2kg copper platter, and the Audio Sensibility OCC phono cable. This is not to say these fine items are not excellent in themselves; they just didn’t work for me.

Bringing in alternative materials carefully selected for the roles to be used has never failed to impress as a betterment when I have been party to the changes being made.

@lalitk More than welcome. Note that when you try an aftermarket component, you can always reverse the change. The reason many folks keep the new part is because it sounds better than what was there before.

...aftermarket bearing, platter and so on

@fsonicsmith I completely understand where you are coming from. In fact, I agree with you. That’s why I have two in the main area—wood with original platter and slate with the other stuff. Note that I am using 401s with the better motor (for stereo) so torque may be less of an issue with a heavier platter. I use the PAC 20mm oversize aluminum platter on the slate with a SPH grease bearing. Far better soundstage and cleaner bass.

Anyhow, I believe that the difference between a well-sorted wood, and a well-sorted slate unit is far less than a non-refurbished unit with an old SME arm on a poor support. Isn’t it all about getting the info from the grooves in the most musically satisfying manner possible? 

Steve DobbsDobbins?

@fsonicsmith

I know we’ve posted on this before in previous threads. The more things change, the more they stay the same, huh? I’ll reiterate for this thread. As far as comparing the two plinth technologies, I have a 5 x 13 layer solid Baltic birch ply 12" arm plinth topped with 1/3 solid walnut and "veneered" with 1/2" maple. I also have a 50mm PA slate plinth. 2 Audiograil 401s. Modified with 3rd party idlers, bearings and platters. 2 Jelco TK 850L arms. Same Decca London cartridges. They both sound great. I’ve compared them side by side. The slate one is more transparent, airy and neutral, gets less confused, blacker backgrounds, faster etc. I would temper this with the clause that if one likes a warmer, tubier sound, the slate may be the proverbial cup of tea. As far as damping, soft PA slate (amongst other) is made up of layers which defract and absorb noise.

Slate is not known for absorbing or damping motor vibration or any other vibration.

@lewm There’s good info on @fsonicsmith Virtual System. 

Soft Pennsylvania slate is wonderful. Silent and brings out the speed and detail. I've three 401s in different plinths with 50mm slate being the most capable.

Slate is not optimum. Sorry but just true.

Consider using a slate plinth. More detail, speed, and air. Pay attention to the surface you put the turntable on. Wooden tables don’t sound great. Concrete floors are preferable.