@lewm
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts. While I can see your point about not all vintage tubes live up to their reputation, I have a different take on trying vintage NOS tubes. Just like anything else in audio, NOS tubes can be easily a misfit in any given application. To @macg19 point, NOS mullard’s performed admirably better in his DAC versus phonostage.
Whether NOS tubes are worth chasing depends on your goals, system resolution and budget. If your system or a tube component responsive to tube rolling, then it’s totally worthwhile to chase the best possible NOS tubes that can further elevate your emotional connection with music. YOLO!
@noromance
I picked up another nice album off Amazon, Ben Webster - Plays Duke Ellington.
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@noromance
My room is a bonus room, it’s not acoustically perfect but the dimensions offer a lot to work with. The 15’ depth and 30’ width give me some flexibility for speaker placement and optimal listening spot. The 8’ ceiling is standard due to being on 3rd floor and part of a split attic, sloped ceiling angle in the back, which helps with diffusion and reduced parallel surface reflection (a bonus in disguise).
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@lalitk I was looking at your room and can't make out if it's a basement or an attic–like over the garage type of bonus room. 😏
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@aricaudio
Aric, thank you for reaching out. I appreciate your willingness to reconnect. I’ve made peace with the experience and don’t feel it’s worthwhile to revisit or invest further into it. I trust you’ll understand and I wish you continued success.
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Lalit, We had conducted business about 6 years ago and had been in touch via email many times since then. We have not conversed in over two years. To my knowledge there was not any unattended business or things left in the air. Your statement seems to imply otherwise. Please contact me directly via email since it appears there are matters to discuss. Best regards, Aric
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@noromance
I’d prefer not to go into all the details publicly, but let’s just say my personal experience left me with enough hesitation that I’ve decided to steer clear moving forward. I know others have had great experiences but for my part, I’m just choosing to not purchase his products.
Hope that makes sense and thanks again for understanding.
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Ha! I can't win for losing! Care to elaborate?
Based on my experience, I won’t be buying anything from Aric Audio (new or used).
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Based on my experience, I won’t be buying anything from Aric Audio (new or used).
duly noted!
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@noromance
Based on my experience, I won’t be buying anything from Aric Audio (new or used).
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@macg19 I haven’t heard either so I’m not recommending them per se, merely offering examples. However both have had solid reviews from trustworthy (known personally) posters over the years. I have heard the Gold Note and wasn’t impressed. Too dull. The Aric is customizable at the build stage. Better components are critical.
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PS. @noromance the Aric does look really interesting.
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@lalitk I forgot - the Mullard’s are marked 12AX7 not any of the variants suggested.
@lewm Brent Jesse has various Amperex/BB available, yes they are expensive but I trust him in terms of authenticity.
I disagree on the value proposition though - while I do agree the Sovtek 12AX7LPS is very good, the NOS Mullard’s and Tele’s are more pleasing to my ears.
@noromance I bought a used Model 4 on Lalit’s recommendation. I think it is ridiculously good for the money. I knew my Goldnote PH-10+PSU-10 ($3k new) was a bottleneck after buying a Clearaudio Innovation and an MSL Signature Platinum, but was holding off a next-level PS for a while. The Model 4 is way better than the GN. Maybe not end-game, but will definitely keep me happy for a while.
The Aric MC is 4.5 times the price of the model 4. Have you heard both?
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@noromance
Totally hear you and I appreciate the feedback. On surface, the Softone Model 4 may appear to be weakest link given rest of the components in the analog chain but Model 4 phono turned out to be pretty darn good and wonderfully engaging. Having said that, I am keeping my options open as far as trying more phono’s down the road.
And hey, you’re right—YOLO.
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I would not go out of my way or to great expense to mess around with Bugle Boys (even assuming you can find a legitimate pair of them, which I doubt) or Mullards, when you can buy either JJ or Sovtek LPS any day of the week at reasonable cost. BBs and Mullards are not any better, IMO. I've got some legit BBs that I bought in the 70s, and they are not better than the modern reissues or as good as TFKs, for 12AX7s. (In my experience, the U, T, and X version of the 12A_7 series must be evaluated separately on a brand per brand basis. For example, 12AU7 BBs are very good but 12AX7 BBs were nothing special.) Then too, some tubes were made in one factory then branded as if made in another. Tube-aholics know all such stories but not me. Best 12AT7 I evaluated were made in China sold by Billington in the UK. GE Gold Star were second best.
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@lalitk I really think you can do better on the phono stage. You are running pretty a much state-of-the-art (within reason) turntable suite and feeding it into a basic phono amp (Softone #4). This is really compromising the analog end of things.
I know you mentioned budget so this might be a better option.
Or an Aric Audio Super MC/MM Phono with some options. YOLO,
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I have not tried the bugle boy or tungsram but I might try and get a pair of the Bugle Boy’s or Some nice Brimar’s.
The Mullard’s I have are 1950s halo getter long plates. I put them back in my DAC after listening to the Sovtek LPS for a few days and they sure do sound nice. They were $450.00 per pair but are now sold old at Brent Jesse but has other variants available.
as you probably know he lists every tube available on his website which has good descriptions but I usually just email him and ask for advice which I may do shortly.
let us know what you end up getting
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@macg19
I placed my order of Model 4 phono, delivery estimate end of June. I am looking at some alternatives to Telefunken 12AX7 NOS to try it out. Do you or anyone else here tried Amperex Bugle Boy - ECC83 (Holland) or Tungsram (Hungry) in a phonostage?
The Mullard’s you’ve tried in Model 4, were they ECC83 / CV4004, long plate (1950s-60s) production?
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I’m finding the new Lond0nDecca somewhat disappointing. The prices are off the charts compared to what JW was doing. The Super Gold retailed at $1900 and now it’s a thousand bucks more. They no longer offer the Paratrace service option on non-Reference models. Decapods seem to be gone. $150 up front to look at cartridges in for service. I’d like to see more transparency on the service costs. The Reference was always a $5k cartridge, LD upped it to a fair $6500 8 months ago and now it’s $8500 and the Jubilee has almost doubled to nearly $6k. I guess I’m just old school and haven’t moved with these expensive times. On reflection, I should be grateful that someone has picked up the task of keeping these amazing cartridges going.
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@dogberry - LD reference is available now.
https://www.londondecca.com/ld-cartridges
and you can email sales@londondecca.com.
I purchased a SuperGold from Stewart about a year ago. Could not be happier. If the SG sounds this good, I cannot imagine what a reference sounds like. Also a good story about the Reference over at Decware. Steve Deckert was/is messing around with a Reference a few months ago and posted some great info/reviews about his experiences.
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Joe Williams was wonderful but not at all like Nat King Cole, who was also wonderful, IMO of course. To begin with, the two sang in different vocal ranges. Joe was a baritone and sang a lot of blues tunes, some of them quite obscure. His improvisations were unpredictable at times. Nat was a tenor. He was also an accomplished jazz pianist and accompanied himself on his earliest recordings, but his work was very mainstream for his time. He took fewer chances than Williams. Hartman was in my opinion the greatest for purity of tone, his work is more in between Nat and Joe, in his choice of material. I think I have all of Hartman's recordings. I wrote in another thread that my go to LP for comparing systems and evaluating upgrades is Hartman's "Easy Living". Human voice is, for me, a good constant.
Pablo recordings were typically of very high quality in terms of SQ. My only quibble is that they came along more or less after many of the great artists on that label had reached and passed their peak capability. Basie and Ellington when they no longer had a stable big band to lead. Ella when she had really lost that purity of tone for which she is revered. Sarah Vaughn was still in good voice when she recorded for Pablo; that is one exception. Joe Pass and Milt Jackson are two others. This is not to say that those Pablo LPs are not anyways quite enjoyable.
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@noromance
Thanks…Joe Williams shares some stylistic elements with Nat King Cole. Another personal favorite of mine is Johnny Hartman…there’s not a lot of recorded material, but what exists is pure gold.
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I’m a fan of the Pablo Basie records: The Gifted Ones, Basie & Dizzy Gillespie, The 3 Basie Jams, Basie & Zoot Sims. I’ve a bunch of his big band work but the later ones above are just wonderful.
Speaking of Joe Williams, his A Man Ain’t Supposed to Cry album is an outstanding vocal work. A must have.
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Those are Pablo recordings. Very high quality but small group recordings made during the twilight of Basie’s career as a big band leader. His big band stuff is on lesser labels, like Roulette. Try Count Basie and Joe Williams, on Verve.
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How about Count Basie…my personal favorites, 88 Basie Street and Farmer’s Market Barbecue.
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“Ben Meets Oscar Peterson, Ben Meets Gerry Mulligan, and Coleman Hawkins Encounters”
@mdalton
These albums are must own in any collection and they’re my favorites too. I would like to add another one to the list -
Art Tatum; Ben Webster
The Tatum Group Masterpieces
28 LP’s…wow!
I also love Ben’s work on Gentle Ben and Stardust albums.
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Ben Webster is a personal fave - I have 28 of his lps! Three go tos not mentioned yet include Ben Meets Oscar Peterson, Ben Meets Gerry Mulligan, and Coleman Hawkins Encounters Ben (track 2, side 1 is beyond brilliant).
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“Tele ECC803S which is never under $700”
@noromance
They cost twice as much as my phono stage….yikes!!
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I guess I have written this many times, but for me the TFK ECC803S must be so rare by now that I would demand quite a bit of documentation before spending so much money. Even a TFK ECC83 is in the realm of caveat emptor. I bought my quartet of TFKs in the early 70s, and they have been in my possession ever since, so I feel confident that they are what they say they are. I don’t feel that I am knowledgeable enough to identify by physical characteristics, except for that diamond shape etched into the bottom of each TFK. Anyway, some modern 12AX7 reissues are good enough, in my opinion, that I would not worry about the brand too much. I have heard the Sovtek LPS and the JJ gold pin sound excellent. OTOH, I don’t think much of the Mullard, even assuming that the Mullards I own or have heard are the real deal.
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@lalitk Note that we were talking about the Tele ECC803S which is never under $700 (used). It's a premium ECC83.
Yeah, Side by Side is solid.
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@larryi
Noted.
@noromance
Side by Side (Acoustic Sounds Reissue)
I am really enjoying this classic duo album where Hodges steps out front with Ellington’s graceful support. Swinging, relaxed, and full of lyrical alto work.
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I am not in the hunt for any tube. I already have my preferred tube and I expect it to outlast me. My only significant concern is with securing enough output tubes in my amp to last to the end. I run four 349 output tubes. Those are very rare and expensive. The other extremely rare tube I run are 348s and I have spares and the really cheap 6F7 can be used as a substitute so I don't have to worry about that tube type. Slightly more findable are the 310a and 310b that I run.
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@larryi
@noromance
There are bargain out there if you’re patient. I got my last pair of Telefunken 12AX7 NOS ( Made in W Germany) for under $100. Setup alerts on HiFi Shark and take your pick.
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Limited, and not growing supply (Chinese fakes don’t count), and high demand did that to the price. I’ve had mine for many years and they are still going strong.
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@larryi As you know, you could buy ECC803S for £6.95 each back in the 80s. Now they’re over $1000 each NOS.
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As I mentioned above, I run genuine, old, Telefunken ECC803S tubes in my phono stage. These take the Telefunken clarity and dynamics even further out to the extremes than the ECC83 tubes. I like them in my system, but I don’t think they have universal appeal.
If I were to pick a tube as being universally good and likable by everyone, it would be a Bugleboy. These are on the warm side, but, they have good clarity and are lively sounding. I don’t know of anyone who hates their sound.
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@noromance
I didn’t find anything else on Storyville Label that I couldn’t live without :-)
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Cheers @lalitk
I only have a Muggsy Spanier album on that label.
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@noromance
Ben plays Ballads by Storyville is excellent. No surface noise, the pressing is made in EU. I am not easily impressed but this one is a keeper. I am going to look up this record label and see what else they’ve got.
@macg19
Kenny Burrell Midnight Blue atm.👍
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@lalitk Good to hear and thanks for following up. How is the vinyl and remaster quality of the Ben Webster Plays Ballads album. I've a damaged original and forgot about replacing, and frankly was hesitant to get the new RM for fear of it being damaged by the digital process!
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I dont, but randomly, it was the first album I streamed today after you mentioned Ben - I’ve never listened to it before. Very nice indeed.
Listening to Kenny Burrell Midnight Blue atm.
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@macg19
I had a feeling Tele NOS would be better since I am using quad of Tele NOS in my CD player. Speaking of tube rolling, I always wanted to try Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7 but they are so rare and expensive.
The reissues or newer tubes are pretty good but they simply cannot match the vintage NOS tubes distinctive characteristics adding subtle but meaningful improvements in tone, texture, and timing. Gotta go, just received a fresh delivery of Ben’s new albums from Amazon :-)
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@noromance Lalit - funny, I was literally just wondering how you were getting along with the tele's. Also Ben Webster was one of my go-to's for testing the Softone.
Glad you like the tele's.
I had a chance to warm up and test the Sovtek LPS variant and tried it in the Model 4 and my tube DAC and it is surprisingly good. I think I like it best in the DAC, but at $60 a pair these are the best new issue tubes I've heard so far and easily best the Gold Lion reissue's that were included by the seller with the model 4.
btw, I ordered a new Model 4 from Mr. Yoshimoto - it will ship early next month, then I'll get the used one repaired (if cost is reasonable) and put it up for sale.
Lastly, I did some more a/b testing between the Model 4 and my Gold Note PH-10 with PSU-10 (3 x the price), and it's not even close. My "busted" Model 4 really is remarkable - can't wait to hear what a properly functioning one sounds like!
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@noromance, @macg19
I have been listening to Telefunken NOS 12AX7 since yesterday after 4 days of break-in. Let me first say JJ 12AX7 are excellent tubes for the money. My biggest concern was noise with Tele NOS. Fortunately, they turned out to be dead quiet.
Now the differences, JJ pair in contrast were slightly darker and bit forward in mid-range. Tele NOS definitely has more refined mids, slightly sweet and smoother top end. If I may say so, excellent layering and microdynamics too and very emotionally engaging.
They are allowing me to fully appreciate Ben Webster’s velvety and breathy tenor saxophone fully bodied sound at another level. I own several recordings of Ben’s music and every one of them giving me goosebumps :-)
I can’t praise enough my Model 4 phono…what an amazing bargain! I may order another one for my 2nd tonearm.
Thank again!
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@lalitk Great. Give them a few days to settle in before judging.
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@noromance
Indeed you did and I ordered the NOS Telefunken based on your initial suggestion but then I completely forgot about them….lol!
@macg19 post reminded me that I had NOS Telefunken’s sitting in my closet.
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I made that suggestion months ago!
noromance
12-04-2024 at 12:16am
I haven’t heard an amp that hasn’t been improved by rolling in old production Telefunken ECC83/12AX7.
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Cool, let us know what you think of the Tele’s.
my cart is MSL Signature Platinum, TT is Clearaudio Innovation with Universal arm
Ive order a pair of the Sovtek LPS so I can compare with the stock set up
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@macg19
You’re welcome! Sorry to hear about the issue with left channel, hopefully you can get it repair easily. I really appreciate your feedback on tube rolling, I am still using stock JJ’s …the phono is now fully “broken-in” and I’m really enjoying its warm, organic tonal characteristics. IMHO, this little giant slayer is a perfect fit for systems that are tuned or end user’s prefer intimacy and warmth.
Inspired by your feedback, I am going to swap out JJ’s with NOS Telefunken 12AX7 this weekend. What cart you’re using with Model 4?
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