Garrard 301 - Project
I have been contemplating for a while which turntable to pursue given so many choices. Every time I look around, I just can’t help drooling over a fully restored Garrard 301 or 401. Aside from being an idler-drive, I keep reading and hearing about their unique ability to reproduce music with its sense of drive and impact thus making them very desirable to own. And with available meticulous restoration services and gorgeous plinth options, what’s not to like, right!
Would you please share your experience, good and pitfalls (if any) with a restored Garrard 301 to avoid before I go down this path.
And what about the IEC inlet and power cord, would they be of any significance. My two choices would be Furutech FI-09 NCF or FI-06 (G) inlets.
I have already purchased a Reed 3P Cocobolo 10.5” with Finewire C37+Cryo tonearm/interconnect phono cable with KLEI RCA plugs option.
Still exploring Cart Options, so please feel free to share your choice of cart with Garrard 301 or 401.
And lastly, I would like to extend my gratitude to @fsonicsmith, @noromance @mdalton for the inspiration.
I had a SME 10 and went to a Garrard 301. Never thought about looking back. I'm not sure if a power cord makes much difference, but a power supply like Long Dog or Hanze does make a difference. https://www.longdogaudio.com/product-category/power-supplies/ My system is posted if you want to look. Good luck with your Garrard journey Jim Perry |
Jim @jperry Thank you for your recommendation on PS. I am familiar with your fine system and may have conversed with you in the past. How about this for coincidence, I used to own SME 15AV with Hana Umami Red cart 😊 |
I have heard the 401 with the LDA Speed Controller Prototype and the Marketed Model. I have also heard the 401 using the LDA Speed Controller compared to other Speed Controllers, produced as designs to be DIY produced. I do believe the LDA is the better as a basic design to a DIY basic design, but have heard a bespoke modified DIY Basic design that was parity or possibly a little better that the LDA on both a 401 and a GL 75. I use a Nigel Built (Personal Built Model) NSC on my PTP Solid 9. I know the Idler Drive Sound very well and have encountered many ID's including the 301's, I have heard these models in a large selection of Plinth Designs, but not all demo's are in the home system. A good selection are in systems I know quite well. I today find the DD TT, especially in my own case, a Vintage Japanese DD TT, when mounted on a particular plinth type, is much more attractive to my unique preference as a method to replay a Vinyl Album. |
I’m obviously a big fan of idler drives, as I have a Thorens TD-124 in addition to my 401. I’ll give you a brief synopsis of my journey with the 401: - Purchased it on ebay from a UK seller; had it shipped directly to Woodsong Audio (Chris Harban) in Idaho. It was not in as good a shape as described on ebay, so Chris did one of his full restorations. All the steps involved are listed on his website under “Garrard 301 Restoration”. - I decided to have Chris repaint the chassis in piano black; this was because the stock gunmetal color would not have looked very good with the blue I had picked for the plinth. Why blue? To match the Italian tube integrated and phono pre I was pairing it with. Some traditionalists may have a problem with that, but it turned out stunning, and is now one of the turntables featured on the Woodsong website. (pretty cool!) - Chris installed an IEC outlet on my 401, but I don’t know what brand. A couple years ago I replaced a stock pc with a straightwire gray lightning. Nothing particularly expensive, and I can’t tell you it made a difference, but my own experience is that PCs are more important on the amp and phono pre than on the TT. Also keep in mind that I’m using the original motor, so ground is floated on the IEC outlet anyway. - Regarding the stock motor: I’ve had the 401 for 6 years now, without any servicing. Since my deck was a UK version, the strobe light wouldn’t have worked correctly on the platter markings, which assume a 50 hz signal. So Chris didn’t bother to get that working. Well a month or so ago I installed an LED strobe light conversion kit on the turntable and guess what? Speed is still spot on 6 years later. The speed adjustment dial is still set at noon. Pretty remarkable. Great engineering by Garrard and great restoration by Woodsong. So I’m not sure I’d recommend an external speed controller. - Regarding the tonearm and cartridge: I went with the 12” Reed 3P (Cocobolo); got an amazing deal cuz Chris had a demo he needed to move. I originally paired it with a cheap Hana EH knowing I’d upgrade eventually. Landed on Koetsu Urushi Tsugaru, well, for three reasons: (1) It’s gorgeous; (2) Koetsu was always a destination cartridge for me because, well it’s a Koetsu! (3) Sugano San originally voiced his cartridges on a modified 401, so it was meant to be. That’s pretty much my story. I have one last step in the journey. Am about to upgrade my step up transformer to something more befitting a Koetsu. Am very satisfied with the setup. Hope that helps, and am happy to answer any questions you might have.
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Thanks for the mention lalitk. As the photos in my profile show, I favor a large plinth, as large in all three dimensions as your rack can accommodate. Forgetting about any thought process that a massive plinth absorbs vibration, the real estate on the top allows for all arm lengths without a cantilevered arm mount hanging off of the edge of the plinth. Unfortunately it appears that Russ Collinson has moved on from plinth building. The alternatives for a quality plinth are pricey. Stay away from the two different plinth builders seemingly based in Muldovia seen on eBay. I have one sitting idle in by basement where it will likely remain. The Reed arms are a bit tricky to mount because the mounting template supplied by Reed is confusing to use. You are going to need a bit of patience or the assistance of a Reed dealer to mount its P-S in such a way as that your cartridge can be optimally aligned. Your choice of rack for the deck will be critical. I use Symposium's rigid (non floating top) model. The rack should be massive, offer good isolation from vibration at the top shelf, and should offer leveling footers. The IEC and PC imho are not important. I have had no compatibility problems among a broad range of cartridges, currently a Lyra Etna SL and a VdH Crimson Strad XGW. I use Stillpointe footers under the plinth. Though more willing to be of assistance if you are buying something from him, Steve Dobbs (Xactaudio) is a great source of information. As I think I told you in a PM, I chose to go with an aftermarket heavy duty brass bearing from Ray of ClassicHifi in the UK. And that is despite the fact that my 301 came with a NOS grease bearing (which I have kept for later use one day).
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Never heard a Garrard 301. I loved my similar era Thorens TD124, it’s 11.5lb platter the reason for (your words) ’drive and impact’, best Bass I ever had. If my wood floors were not so springy I would still be using it. I see some very tempting Garrard 301 restorations with custom plinths. Personally, I would get a plinth allowing two tonearms (add 2nd arm in future?) and a Dust Cover, thus consider the shape of the Plinth, and it’s appearance with dust cover on. You can get new dust covers easily, any size, a rectangle easier and less costly. Many beautiful Plinths exist, but do not plan for dust covers, i.e. this maker uses many exotic woods
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I would forget history, get it to be my main TT. get the great TT, get a great tonearm with removable headshell and a modern MC cartridge of choice, optional cartridges on headshells waiting for their turn. It could compete with nearly anything. My Thorens TD124: I used an SME-3009 II Tonearm with Shure’s last great MM: V15Vxmr, beryllium cantilever, micro-ridge, tracked at 1.0 g. I think a part of the ’best bass’ Tonearm: consider ease of adjusting arm height, not so much for perfect VTA, more for if planning on a few cartridge bodies that might be slightly taller or shorter . Others exist: I have installed: my Acos Lustre GST-801, loosen by hand short arm locking lever, turn for up/dn, tighten (easy, smooth, adjust while playing)
my Russian 12.5" arm, has micrometer for fine height adjustment, BUT you have to loosen two allen set screws (after you find the right size allen key), so: precise but not a quick change for a different cartridge. (not removable headshell anyway, I just mean: micrometer, precision, if not easy ...) Two Micro-Seiki 505’s for a friend (just mounted two new cartridges for him this past Saturday. Loosen short locking lever by hand, move up/dn, lock by hand, easy, however not as smooth as Acos, I would not do it while playing. Quick enough, simply lift arm up, adjust by hand, arm back down. Another feature these arms have is an adjustable fitting for the headshell to set azimuth. loosen tiny screw, rotate fitting a speck, tighten tiny screw.
Technics EPA B-500 tonearm base, wonderful: unlock by hand, turn outer ring by hand, lock by hand. Same as Micro-Seiki, not while playing: unlock by hand/lift/adjust/down, lock by hand
the up/dn lever is to raise/lower arm, the lower outer ring is arm height. this base allows switching arm wands also, another way to have different cartridges ready to go. the S arm wand is removable headshell; straight arm wand is fixed. |
Slate is not optimum. Sorry but just true. Agree that having a concrete slab floor is preferable to being over a basement with floor joists. But most of us don't get to design our houses and listening rooms (though in my case I did) and many of us like having a full basement. Btw, if you get a speed control unit such as the LDA, remove the eddy brake. |
@lewm There’s good info on @fsonicsmith Virtual System. |
Hi Lewm. I would love to claim that I have tried a slate plinth with either my TD124 or 301 but that would not be true. So when I responded above that it is not true that slate is optimum, I did so brashly and from trusted wisdom. That said, I went through a series of turntables starting in the early 2000's and then started focusing on idlers in the last fifteen. I have talked at length with many experts. I have experimented with several different wood plinths and with multiple platters on both of my idlers. Unfortunately our niche (idler drive turntables) within a niche hobby does not result in very much scientific analysis of matters such as vibration damping properties of alternating layers of birch vs. slate. If you do some research you will find some good threads on the Lenco Heaven site. Slate is not known for absorbing or damping motor vibration or any other vibration. Our lizard brains just assume that slate being heavy and massive it must be good for something like a plinth. I have no doubt that a Garrard 301/401 can sound very good mounted on a slate plinth. My unsupported belief is that the sound you will get is not consistent with the best characteristics of idlers. To draw an analogy, why would anyone take a Harbeth loudspeaker and convert the enclosure from wood to Magico-style alloy keeping everything else equal?
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I know we’ve posted on this before in previous threads. The more things change, the more they stay the same, huh? I’ll reiterate for this thread. As far as comparing the two plinth technologies, I have a 5 x 13 layer solid Baltic birch ply 12" arm plinth topped with 1/3 solid walnut and "veneered" with 1/2" maple. I also have a 50mm PA slate plinth. 2 Audiograil 401s. Modified with 3rd party idlers, bearings and platters. 2 Jelco TK 850L arms. Same Decca London cartridges. They both sound great. I’ve compared them side by side. The slate one is more transparent, airy and neutral, gets less confused, blacker backgrounds, faster etc. I would temper this with the clause that if one likes a warmer, tubier sound, the slate may be the proverbial cup of tea. As far as damping, soft PA slate (amongst other) is made up of layers which defract and absorb noise.
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Fsonic, My own Lenco is mounted in a 50mm slab of PA slate. However, it also benefits from a PTP top plate, a hefty after market bearing, a platter that has been painted with vibration reducing black paint, speed that is regulated by the Phoenix Engineering gear, and two high end tonearms. So I am hardly in a position to say that the slate slab alone is responsible for its excellent performance. But it doesn't seem to hurt, either. I can say I replaced a John Nantais re-plinthed Lenco with the one I have now. the JN unit did not benefit from the PE power supply and Roadrunner, and the slate unit is better for whatever reason. |
I don't use Slate for any purpose in HiFi, but have at one time been interested in the material and as a result, own a very heavy Slab, probably from a Seam that was close to 2500Kg+ per m3. I no longer express an interest in Granite as a Plinth Material, I have many years experience of it used on a 401, and through the 401's new owner being a friend, experienced the 401, used on a selection of Plinth designs of which I preferred the lighter designs, in either a Wood Mass with Damping Pockets or as a CLD Design. I know the 401 Sound very well and the most it has impressed me is during one of my last encounters of it in use, when the 401 was mounted in a Three Way Compressed Bamboo Board cut to be used as a Plinth. I stand by my statement made at the time of the demonstration, being that I have not encountered a 401 that could create such a good impression. With my better understanding of materials today, I do know that the Three Wat Compressed Bamboo Board can have a Damping Factor of 2 - 5 depending on whether the size tested is a Sample dimension or a Plinth Dimension. That as a measurement for a Sample is 10x improved damping in comparison toa MDF Sample. Slate as a Sample has a measurement of 0.017, which is one the last measurements one would select if choosing a material with highly effective intrinsic damping. The Bounce Back of Energy transferred is going to be evident, I will state audible, if compared to a material being used with damping properties that produce little or negligible bounce back of received energy. The material I am now an advocate of, and for a period of time have been transitioning to for various roles. Especially as a Plinth Material, Sub Plinth Material, Equipment Chassis and is the material that will most likely supersede most support materials used in my system is the material referred to as a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood, of which it can be discovered from the Brand Panzerholz and Permali and in my case are both owned. A Sample of Panzerholz and Permali has a Damping Factor of 4 and a Plinth Dimension of 25mm Thick Panzerholz has been measured with a Damping Factor of 7. There is no Bounce Back that is audible from these Damping Factors, and the Dissipation of Energy transferred is one of the Best Measured as well. I will not suggest a Stone, Plywood Board or MDF is a inferior plinth, each material can be quite stable. I am sure they have their fanboys for how the sound produced is assessed. I would myself have a Compressed Bamboo over any of the above, as I know how it has impressed me in relation to what I know about Stone and Plywood Board Designs. Over all the above I now know without reservation I would have a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Wood Board, I have heard this compared to Marine Plywood, MU25 Plywood and the Panzerholz Plinth was instantly discernable for the improvement it offered.
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@pindac @noromance @fsonicsmith all interesting. My only experience is of Woodsong plinths. Didn’t realize, but apparently they combine birch ply, panzerholz, and slate, all in one design. (search for an Art Dudley piece from June 2016 describing a Woodsong 301 plinth.) Does that mean I win? (lol! quite sure we’d all love each other’s decks!)
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I use slate combined with cherrywood in two layers, for my Technics SP10 mk3. I listened to it befor and after adding the cherrywood base. It seemed a touch better after cherrywood was added. Pindac, hoe did you assign a numerical value to damping factor for a plinth? And can you define “bounce back”? Thanks. |
@mdalton, @fsonicsmith, @noromance Thank you for the great insight on your journey and for sharing your collective experiences with Garrard 301 / 401. This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping to read! I did initiate the purchase of a Garrard 301 with full restoration, finished in Sable (black). The ETA is 4-6 weeks. As far plinth goes, I had the same vendor in mind on eBay as @elliottbnewcombjr linked above. Based on what I’ve learned here, I am going to query the plinth maker about the manufacturing process, materials and footers. I plan to experiment with the footers and eventually decouple TT with a SRA Isolation base atop my excellent core audio design rack. As far cart options, I am taking notes on all the recommendations so far. Three extra head shells are already in-house with Reed 3P tonearm :-) Hopefully, Garrard 301 ends being my end game TT! |
Just as Damper and Body Materials used in Cartridges has evolved in the selection for a materials. Materials used for structure in audio equipment has evolved as well, and it is easy to see where the industry is adopting it and not. Linn won't inform on their most recent TT being constructed with P'holz, it is an inhouse name for the material. As does Kaiser Speakers referring to the Bespoke Materials as Tank Wood. There are most likely other Brands with a usage of it and a disguised name to protect their IP. 'Bounce Back' is a simplistic term, used when describing extremely Poor Dissipation and Damping, the Energies are not Damped or Dissipated, hence they are contained and in motion as further transferal, hence 'Bounce Back'. In relation to the TT, being in contact with such a material, the likelihood/guarantee is that the Styli is to be receive energies from Bounce Back, resulting in a contaminated energy being sent to create the initial signal to be transferred for further stages of amplification, where the contamination is included in all stages until sound is produced. Whether the end listener is able to detect the contamination in the produced sound will be open to debate, I have and do, when certain types of structure are being used.
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+1 for Woodsong renovation work (I have a TD124). VG results (for TD124) with "Governor" PSU made by Deco Audio in UK for rational cost: lower noise floor, greater impact. I have VG results after milling -- using pillar drill-- a solid plinth of German "Permali" wood: twice density of baltic birch (similar if not same manufacturing principle of "Panzerholz"). Plinth stands on decoupling tripods. Image of this posted on my system page. Material of modest cost - around 100GBP. This set up sounds fast, detailed and richly musical. As others noted, slate may be less optimal. I have found wood somewhere in plinth or under, as support, gives more natural sound with less edge. YMMV. |
And your method for arriving at a numerical damping factor with plinth materials, Pindac? We also have to ask where is all this spurious energy coming from? Also keep in mind that European slate is different from Pennsylvania slate, just as PA slate is different from Vermont slate, etc. ( I’ve had SP10 mk2 plinths made of both. PA slate was better.) OMA proudly use PA slate and also natural hard woods from PA in their speakers. Slate is layered such that its energy dissipation in the plane parallel to the layers would be very different from its energy absorption perpendicular to that plane. There you would probably get more “bounce back “. But does it matter? What spurious energy is attacking the surface perpendicular to the plane of the layers? In the end also, slate provides lots of dead mass, which I think is beneficial. Finally it’s impossible to resolve the question by back and forth discussion. I built my plinths 10-15 years ago, I’m satisfied, and I’m not starting over with plinths. Typing on my bespoke cell phone made of densified wood. |
What I have been trying to say, particularly with my Harbeth speaker enclosure analogy, is that in my very humble opinion trying to make a 301 sound "airy, transparent, neutral, fast" et al is trying to turn the 301 into something that it is not. Why would anyone take an Audi R8 and install a lift kit and all terrain tires on it? If you want airy, transparent, neutral, and fast, any number of current era TT designs deliver those qualities in spades. The 301 as a result of its design has a more relaxed truth of timbre and tone character. The powerful motor coupled with original very light platter also gives it "snap" to transient's and a strong sense of propulsiveness (my spell check denies that as being a word), but without sacrificing the relaxed overall touch and tone. Why not play to the strengths of the design rather than ameliorate them as if to mimic a modern sophisticated belt drive or DD table? In my case I did, largely out of blind luck and intuition, substitute a heavy duty all- brass bearing assembly and the Steve Dobbs alloy with copper top platter. At one point I was using the Classic HiFi brass platter that weighs 12kgs, nearly 25 lbs. https://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/product/brass-platter-20-mm-oversize/ I much prefer the sound of the Dobbs platter. The heavier platter eliminated all sense of excitement to the sound. How can this be, one might ask? It is rotating at the very same speed and with all that inertia it ought to sound every bit as authoritative. I have no answer. Except that maybe just maybe the resonance of the all brass platter bouncing back through the LP and back to the stylus does something adverse to lively sound. And maybe just maybe all that mass and inertia can not overcome stylus drag and it's effects whereas letting the powerful motor exert itself through a relatively light platter overcomes stylus drag. And yet another factor is the inherent added friction of a very heavy platter on the bearing assembly. All any of us can do with the 301 is experiment. If a slate plinth mated with the 301 sounds the way you want it to sound I can not argue that you have made a bad choice. |
@fsonicsmith I completely understand where you are coming from. In fact, I agree with you. That’s why I have two in the main area—wood with original platter and slate with the other stuff. Note that I am using 401s with the better motor (for stereo) so torque may be less of an issue with a heavier platter. I use the PAC 20mm oversize aluminum platter on the slate with a SPH grease bearing. Far better soundstage and cleaner bass. Anyhow, I believe that the difference between a well-sorted wood, and a well-sorted slate unit is far less than a non-refurbished unit with an old SME arm on a poor support. Isn’t it all about getting the info from the grooves in the most musically satisfying manner possible? Steve |
@lewm My days of Ping Pong with you are from this post onwards over, especially on the subject of your preferred plinth material, in relation to my ongoing interest in Plinth ,Materials, where I have for the present settled on a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board as the Plinth Material. There are Links posted by myself for quite some time that shows the Damping - Dissipation Data for many materials selected for a Plinth and other Structures used in the field of audio. I will not be supplying these to you, that search is now for you to satisfy yourself. My two pennies worth, strongly suggests Slate Samples of same dimension from all over the World will measure at very closely to 0.017, which will have substantial Bounce Back as an inherent property. This is very different to your very Layman description of Slate Properties. Again if a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board produced anywhere in the World, if the same dimension will measure similar, especially with 4.0 being the reading for a 4" x 4" x 1/2", which is substantially more attractive as a materials than all others known to be used for structural purposes in the field of audio. @noromance It is good to see your inquisitiveness has taken you to places where modern approaches are being adopted and the benefits are discovered. The SPH Bearing with the Non-Metal on Metal design is one I know very well, and one I was instrumental in having a Composite Spindle Design produced for, which a friend now has in use for their Idler Drive adventures. |
Thank you both for continuing to provide valuable insights on Garrard TT. I couldn’t agree with you anymore on exploiting the strengths of Garrard 301 or 401. That’s what my dealer has recommended, to start off with 301 fully restored to its original parts with a decent plinth. I would like to get a basic understanding of a Garrard TT sound before I start tempering with aftermarket bearing, platter and so on. I still need to figure out cart and phono options..lol! |
@lalitk More than welcome. Note that when you try an aftermarket component, you can always reverse the change. The reason many folks keep the new part is because it sounds better than what was there before.
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@noromance I always state something along the lines of the experience encountered has been the one that most impressed and proved to be the one wanted to be maintained. There is no longer any want to revert to experiences previously had. Bringing in alternative materials carefully selected for the roles to be used has never failed to impress as a betterment when I have been party to the changes being made. I can say this for Wire, Types, Connector Types, Bearing Interfaces in both TT Platter Bearing and TA, TA Headshells and structure materials such as a Plinth or Sub Plinth.
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An interesting statement, I wonder who said it ? "And it's quite possible that Panzerholz is superior to slate; I haven't tried it. To be honest, the foregoing information about the difficulties of obtaining and working with Panzerholz just shows the wisdom of ordering a finished plinth from Albert." A clue maybe, A user of PA Slate maybe and one who bolsters their being a advocate by making it known, OMA proudly use PA slate. I would stand proud if I were doing very well out the realisation of plagiarizing a British Companies concept for a Plinth Product at $3K a purchase. |
@pindac Indeed. Although, I have a graveyard of parts that came with big promises. The most recent rejected items were the Korf ceramic headshell, the SPF 1.2kg copper platter, and the Audio Sensibility OCC phono cable. This is not to say these fine items are not excellent in themselves; they just didn’t work for me.
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@pindac I know who said it, obviously. I'm not sure it matters. This is not a trial by fire. 😉 I looked into using Panzerholz myself, having worked with plans and quotes with a respected builder. I may revisit.
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Pindac, I thought you were never going to respond again to one of my posts? How dreary that you cannot resist. First, I never said slate was superior to Panzerholz. Second, neither OMA nor the British company to whom you refer was first to use slate to make a plinth. The idea goes back to the early 90s at least, but then again, you dislike slate so why bring it up? Also, I do recall the British slate plinths (can't recall who made them); they were insubstantial compared to the OMA products. Funnily enough, Jonathan Weiss said on his website, about 15-20 years ago, that he vehemently disliked me for commissioning my own PA slate plinths (he used more colorful language), using material from the same quarry he uses. That was purely by chance; I had no prior idea where he was getting his slate. Nevertheless, I was not and probably am not welcome in his emporia (Brooklyn or PA), which doesn't faze me a bit. And finally, as I understand it you use a Peter Reinders Lenco turntable, which I believe has a Corian plinth. Who do you think supplied me with the program to have my Lenco plinth cut from PA slate? Answer: Peter Reinders, an exceptionally nice guy who acted in spite of OMA's objection. I used a waterjet operation in York, PA, to cut the plinths (for Denon DP80, Technics SP10s MK2 and 3, and Lenco) from slabs purchased in PA. At the time all this was occurring, slate was very much in fashion, and more to the point, the cost was much much less than the cost of purchasing a Panzerholz plinth for the SP10 Mk2 or Mk3 from Albert, who is another very nice person. And I needed to save the money. At the present moment, I have no doubt that Panzerholz or the like might be superior to slate, but I also have no doubt that slate is very good for the purpose, based on listening. |
@lalitk Possibly predictably, I’m not a fan of damping or locking things down. Listening without sounds more open and free. You can buy a reasonable device on Amazon for $27 which looks great but doesn’t add anything. I know. It’s in the graveyard. PS Jeff's a great guy. |
@lalitk Hmmm, they lost me at loss of detail. See more comments on sound here
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For the record, my making a post is not always an attempt at responding to a post from another. Likewise, my showing a commonly found evidence that a particular individual is varied in their assertions made and stand taken, is also not my responding to an individuals post. What might or might not prove to be of interest, is that the particular evidence used, is one that is 14 years old. The use of Dreary as a description does seem to be fitting for more than one reason when referring to my post. I have made it known, I am not a lock oneself away in a room individual a their participation in Audio as a interest. I get out and take part in a spread wide social network. As a result of my willingness to meet others, I've been exposed to a wide range of Plinth Designs. Where I have been seated in front of and receiving demo's of the fashionable materials for Plinths used for Idler Drive TT's from the 90's and 00's (Granite, Slate and well thought out timber structures are all met in used as a Plinth Structure being demonstrated, of which I chose Granite). The 10's and now in the 20's, have introduced myself to new concepts (very advanced Timber Structures with designs included to aid damping, Increased Compression Wood Based Boards and Highly Compressed Foam Based Boards Polybentonite Resin, Highly Compressed Bamboo and Densified Wood. There is no desire to return to any material experienced prior to my usage of a Densified Wood as a material, even though my experience of Highly Compressed Bamboo on a Garrard 401 has been very impressive and indelible as a memory, the best 401 met to date as my assessment. As for materials I am keeping on, the next will be a Mycelium based product, hopefully all Organic in its origin and able to compete with substances coming from Chemical or Petrochemical origins. Formula One already has a secretive materiel that is very much aligned to this new philosophy. The same person who has received material Samples from me for testing, that are not commonly met materials, and the same person who over the Years been supplying Data on a vast range of materials used in audio. The same person who has in 'certain circles' become known as pretty much the Godfather of Panzerholz through the Testing and Data they supplied many many years ago, will receive from myself new samples of new discovered materials for testing. I am not an expert, I don't have to be, I receive good description of Data from those that really know. That when contemplated by the Layman, helps making decisions to make a change a no brainier, to follow up on the idea to be inquisitive and learn what is on offer. There is an amount of Threads to be found, with a substantial amount of Posts on Spindle Weights, Spindle Clamps and Mats. My input will be I have found through many trials, what I class as suitable to my own unique preferences. Yours will be a Journey of many stops with trials and discoveries to be met or a one stop journey where the alighting the interest ends quickly, I strongly recommend the former. |
@pindac Back in the 80s, we had a Garrard 301 motor unit mounted on four toilet rolls. With a Grace 707 arm. It sounded better than sitting on granite. Perhaps the roll of paper acted as very fine layers of wood. |
@noromance Similar experiments have been done with naked chassis on numerous TT's, even when my friend got their SP10 R, there was a range of Prop's trialed to eke the sound from it that was a betterment. My continuous experiences of using Plinth Materials and experiencing Plith Matrilas has been run in conjunction with working with the overall supporting structure for the support of the Source and System. I have worked from the Floor Upwards and also having industrial type Gallows Bracket fastened to the Walls as a Suspended Structure. The Gallows Brackets has served as a Shelve Support and also an anchor point to suspend shelves from on O Rings, Chain, and Rope. The Suspended Set Up nor the Shelve Support was an attractive option to be used with the Vinyl Source, but complimented CDP > DAC very well. The Vinyl Source from my experiences works at it very best in my listening environment when mounted on a Multi Tier Support Structure, inclusive of Highly Compressed Foam, Steel Plates, Granite as the Sub Base and this is then built of as the mount for the Bespoke Produced Hard Wood Rack that has spring suspension as footers, with a variety of Isolation devices used for under each Shelve. The Racks support for the Vinyl Source is a further multi tier support structure that has been optimised over the years to suit a variety of TT's in varying Plinth Materials. I do believe I got a very attractive sonic from Granite when it was a preferred material, especially when I found materials that was able to keep it in a state of suspension and not compressing to become hard. I found a 40m Diameter dense closed cell round Backing Rod used for Silicone Applications ideal for this role as a Footer for a 9 Stone of Granite Plinth. It is trimmable as well to assist with the bulk of the leveling requirement. The individual who now owns the 401 and Granite Plinth has not got the same from it as I did, even though it sits on the Backing Rod I gave the owner. As for the reason who knows. It might be there is not a understructure like mine used to support it, or the new environment needs different structure very different from mine and the one presently in use ? The 401 owner has done much better with various designs of Wood Board as a Plinth Structure. On one occasion I informed the 401 owner, but in relation to their GL 75's that there is a colouration detectable that is most likely caused by the Sub Support in use. I know how tidy a GL75 can sound as a typical GL75 and as a PTP Design, as I have experience with both through ownership. The 401 owner invited me back to show me how much their TT's had been tidied up, on this occasion I took my Sub Plinth and Stacked Footer assembly with me to give them a demo' and loan. Following their new under TT support demo' the items were swapped out for my own, in this environment they worked superbly, the System owners Jaw was agape😦. During the loan, my devices were plagiarised for their own continued use. The Environment for a TT set up and the Support Structure in use are extremely important to having the Vinyl Source optimised for performance as a set up. A TT will produce a sound and music that is a enjoyable experience in any environment, think of all the Parties a TT has been the source for the music being danced or head banged to. As an audio enthusiast and having learned over many years, things worthy of consideration, I have adopted an active approach, that attempts to address some of the things that are best avoided. I do think I have removed or at worst diminished unwanted influences to the place they are not detected as detrimental to the signal being produced by the styli's interface within the groove. As it is known, Densified Wood as a Support Structure, is where my attention is now placed. My Bespoke Produced Rack, which is very long time owned will most likely become a Hybrid with this material, especially as a Cap attached to the Base of the Legs to house the Spring Suspension and as replacement for the used Ash Wood for Frame Bracing / Shelve Supports. |
@pindac It would be wonderful to see photos. Please consider setting up an entry in Virtual Systems, or by the utilization of a preferred photographic sharing utility. One can describe beauty in endless prose but beholding the vision is the revelation. |
Update: Plinth has been ordered and it comes with M6 threaded nuts, no feet. I got one recommendation so far for Stillpoints footers. Are there any other footers that I should consider that would help decouple and drain any unwanted energy. I would love to install the TT on a wall mounted shelf but that is not an option. I am also considering Seismic Pods from Townshend Audio. Any other suggestions are welcomed! |
@lalitk , I use Nordost Sortfut under my 301. I had Stillpoints but needed more clearance for the Shindo bearing. Can’t comment on the sound difference because Nordost and Shindo were installed at the same time |
If you could win the Footers in the Link for about $180, you will be very happy. These are the footers I have used for years under heavy TT's until Solid Tech - 'Feet of Silence' , took their place under a much lighter in weight DD TT. These are from my side thoroughly recommended for Source, Amp' and Speaker It was these that made such an impression on a friend under their speakers, they went the route of Townshend Podiums at a substantially increase in cost. https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/1129165914/
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