GaN based SU-R1000 Technics Integrated Class-D, review by TAS
After their unobtainable and unaffordable ground breaking 1.5mhz switching speed, Technics SE-R1 GaN Class-D power amp, this new offspring integrated has finally gotten an in depth review.
Regardless of source – analogue or digital – we notice that the SU-R1000
doesn’t have the most expansive soundstage. Its presentation isn’t
cluttered exactly, but there’s a definite lack of space around sounds
and instruments, making things sound less layered and lacking in depth.
The delivery could do with greater precision when locating instruments
in the image too.
They don't say which speakers were used to make this determination, perhaps all three of them. The review speakers, by the way, are nothing special in my view.
The two I trust the most are Stereophile and then TAS. Can’t wait for the Stereophile one as it will come with bench tests which "usually" backup the listening tests if you understand them .
Yes we can look at another the minor publication Ibtech reviews gave it 5 out of 5 and loved it also
"Beautiful warm soundscape with enormous depth and dynamics Technics SU-R1000 is one of the most unique we have seen and heard in the high-end class."
I’m not sure there are many who want a straight wire with gain.
I’m positive there are, but you don’t do it by making amps nonlinear or with selective distortions in them. You do it with equalizers if needed or change whatever is that you don’t like the sound of, usually the speakers or room. (not by changing the linear items for non linear ones that's crazy) Cheers George
I’m not sure there are many who want a straight wire with gain. In recent years a number of small manufacturers and a few large have been building amplifiers with distortion and noise so low it’s inaudible to humans which is as close to a straight wire with gain as you can get. Mostly these amps are considered boring and sterile. Personally it’s what I prefer but i know a lot of people don’t. There’s nothing right or wrong in any preference but to modify a "straight wire with gain" to sound similar to amplifiers whose distortion is audible isn’t a neutral amplifier. If you take 2 amplifiers that are neutral that measure beyond human hearing then they will sound the same. I’ve never heard this Technic amp but it appears to be one I would like though I know I can get cheaper "straight wires with gain".
Let’s face it, reviews in the two mainstream mags that contain even a brief comparative section are few and far between, and when they do, the components that are compared are usually nowhere near the same price bracket. The mags won’t risk pissing of manufacturers by printing statements like brand X performed, overall, better than brand Y.
Look what happened with Herb R.’s much-heralded cable survey that was announced a number of months ago. How many installments did that have? One.
i think it is called a ’collectively profit-making, self perpetuating eco-system’... the target audience (and often enough, the prey) being the inexperienced retail consumer/hi fi enthusiast
Glad someone around here is stand on solid ground.
And many with that negativity, are just doing that so they can shill for their own commercial interests. And yes nothing wrong with the "a straighwire with gain" adage, as it implies no colouration, which is a distortion.
George lives on his own deserted island.
But you live in the clouds and have no idea about: switching frequency vs low order output filter vs resulting in phase shift down into the audio band.
@twoleftears, Well said. Reviewers are no less immune from the viciousness of the mob than anything audio related here. It’s expected. It’s also why lots of reviewers on all manner of platform have suspended comments or heavily moderate them. The same losers who pounce here pounce there and pollute discussion. Personally, I think they get a kind of perverse high off of it.
If one does a more than cursory reading of the review on the SU-R1000, the reviewer hits all the notes without naming names and even goes so far as to say lots of snobs have written off Technics as a major audio player simply because they’re involved with lots of mid-fi gear and that they’re of Japanese origin. I think a lot of the negativity here can be from that.
I’ve always wanted something that sticks to the old adage of " a straighwire with gain" and Technics took a very big step in that direction, which is why I’m waiting on my Technics SU-G700 (in silver) to come in.
George lives on his own deserted island. His opinions are formed on what he reads he has a link to everything. Very little hands on listening most know that specs will not dictate sound otherwise every component would sound the same. Design and execution is key.
In the end it depends on the individual and budget one can convince themselves that their 3k amp sounds as good as an 8k amp.
Let's face it, reviews in the two mainstream mags that contain even a brief comparative section are few and far between, and when they do, the components that are compared are usually nowhere near the same price bracket. The mags won't risk pissing of manufacturers by printing statements like brand X performed, overall, better than brand Y.
Look what happened with Herb R.'s much-heralded cable survey that was announced a number of months ago. How many installments did that have? One.
EXACTLY ! And that's what I'm doing with the Orchard Audio Ultra Amplifier modules. Five of them with 2 massive Toroidal's for the GaN Amps (one powers two GaN's, the other power's three GaN's) along with smaller toroidal's for the drive stages. Lots of filtering and rectification along with proper grounding.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with switching supplies with all the advances that have been done with that technology. I'm listening to the loaner Ultra Amplifier for a month now and I'd power the modules with switching supplies without hesitation.
But it just looks so cool inside with all those big ass Toroid's (and little ass one's too. Amp modules are coming soon. I have some wiring to cleanup so don't judge my workmanship....yet.
I believe the best performance and SQ will be using a linear power supply
That’s exactly what I did in the 2nd system with my Hypex NC500 monoblocks (same as BelCanto Reference-600 monoblocks). Two things I did that took them to another level, I now have a massive linear supply and the other was when I also completely bypass the Hypex modules input gain stage, because my MSB Discrete R2R DAC has up 7.5Vpp variable output and can drive each of the NC500 poweramps balanced in stage itself direct.
Would you rather have your 1.5MHz and lesser SQ
Yes defiantly the 1.5mhz or more switching speed "and better sound quality" it brings. Because the 70 degrees of phase shift in the upper mids/highs https://ibb.co/2thS6y2 on Class-D’s will then be almost reduced to 0, like good linear amps that have FR’s out to 200khz and because of that they also have almost 0 phase shift in the audio band
1. The SE-R1 needs to be at 1.5MHz to perform as it does, considering the rest of its design.
2. The AGD does not need to run that high to perform as it does. Its design and execution are superior, I believe. sure, they increased the frequency to 800MHz now, but the improvement in SQ is incremental not dramatic.
3. You’re always mentioning specs; you should mention SQ. Both AGD’s are superior in SQ. Would you rather have your 1.5MHz and lesser SQ? Of course not!
4. I believe the best performance and SQ will be using a linear power supply. I had an H2O S250 Signature, B&O and linear, and it performed beautifully with Apogees, including Scintillas. I’ll wait for that amp rather than jump into the current wild, wild west!
audioman58 Coda also uses 40 Bipolors on the outputs day Huge 3kva potted transformer
Great output stage setup for the bases to me the best of linear high bias SS amp/s. Gryphon, Dan Ago, Krell, John Curl etc etc all still go this way, and still to me nothing competes with them when hearing them.
But Class-D is going to be the norm that's fact, especially with offshoots of Technics SE-R1 and it’s 1.5mhz switching frequency, but still even these amps can’t drive speakers like Wilson Alexia’s etc. Like what those Gryphon, Dan Ago, Krell, John Curl etc etc linear complimentary bi-polar amps can, and they'll still be around for those that want the very best, with the very best of speakers that are usually very hard to drive.
As it not possible "yet" for GaN or any complimentary Mosfets to keep almost doubling their wattage for each halving of impedance from 8ohm to 4ohm to 2ohm like the big Bi-Polar amps above can do.
George you have been critical of many designers, engineers, builders and brands. What amps, preamps, DACs have you designed built or what patients do you hold? Just wondering before I invest in my next piece of audio equipment.
I have a good friend who has listened to the Technics in depth And it is very good but felt his Coda CSIB integrated was more complete in several areas ,in other systems they may like the more nimble Technics, the Coda uses The Latest Mosfets, FETs, gan are the latest fastest FETs , and the Coda also uses 40 Bipolors on the outputs day Huge 3kva potted transformer , I myself bought the Coda and just installed IMO the world class Latest Jupiter waxed paper Copper foil capacitors for the Class A preamplifier output section. It is very good it will compete with top separates in the $10 k+ range,which says a lot. 35+ years in business ,10 year warranty,and Made in USA 🇺🇸
Perhaps it is for other designers but Alberto knows more about GaN’s than others.
Well for those that know it’s not good to put all that wattage, current, signal etc etc through those tiny touch contact tube pins, they will be a problem after a while. Even the designer said the tube thing was a bit of advertising gimmick in an interview.
AGD’s Audion first gen is "only" 400kHz and is considered to be an excellent product? Their second gen is up to 800kHz I believe.
See even he knows that the higher is better. As the SE-R1’s at 1.5mhz!!! is minimum, to have close to zero phase shift back in the audio band. As this Hypex at 600khz shows has (red trace) https://ibb.co/2thS6y2 with 70 degrees!! phase shift at 10khz! and still 50degrees of of phase at 2khz!!!!! >2mhz in the future will be the best.
George, you are aware that AGD's Audion first gen is "only" 400kHz and is considered to be an excellent product? Their second gen is up to 800kHz I believe. So, let's stop touting 1.5MHz as the requirement for excellence. Perhaps it is for other designers but Alberto knows more about GaN's than others.
Yes, another nothing review. "
It has notable competition at its price range"......then says nothing about its competition.....so, how do we know how it sounds without a reference. Just another money making review. Rave and do not compare......then the advertisers are happy.
I am sure it is very good.....but how good? you cannot tell a thing from this review.
Don’t think I ever said it had 1.5mhz switching speed??, just it’s big bro the SE-R1, I seriously hope it does too. As 1.5mhz switching speed is far better than 600khz, as then there’s no 70 degrees phase shift (https://ibb.co/2thS6y2) then from 1khz to 20khz in the audio band.
And I’ve always maintained they (all Class-D’s) have a problem driving speakers like Wilson Alexia into very low impedance’s. Cheers George
..and yet the reviewer didn't note: 1. What music he played.2. How the amp specifically performed with that music. 3. What the rest of the system was. and the most important spec for George: switching speed! This is a seriously lacking "review". Finally, another Class-D amp that can't perform below 4-ohms and at $10K. Pathetic.
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