Galion TS120

Hey all, I hope everyone is well. I have been in contact with Thomas about getting an amp sent to me for evaluation and ultimately a review here. Talking about Nola and Carl certainly brings back memories of those times in Long Island, N.Y. I had met everyone at Dahlquist (I owned stacked DQ10s for a while) and appreciated the updates/improvements Carl made to them. As many of you know my story and background, I had a lot of gear come in and out of my room (s). I was an early transitioner from tubes to solid state and realized that there were some tradeoffs by doing that. Driving the DQ10s, tubes were weak running the subwoofers (same woofers as used in the Advents, just as an fyi). I was then, and still am, a Klipsch Lascala owner, and find for " my listening tastes ", the only way to listen. I have stated in over 2500 posts here, that we all are different in what we want from a sound system, and that there is no right or wrong, although for me, I am right. So many folks talk about tone, sound staging and imaging, not many talk about the true essence of listening. The musicianship and the composition are first and foremost what I want to hear, and I have stated this ad nauseam. In a post I made here a few years back, I presented a scenario, a choice, to the A'gon members. To listen to your favorite musician in an acoustic environment no better than an airport bathroom, or a beginner of that same instrument, playing at a famous concert hall. I do not recall many folks responding to this analogy, but my point was : I am more interested in what the musician is doing on the stage, rather than where on the stage he/she is. I know the importance of " them being here/you being there" is important, but I believe many folks are listening to/for the less important things. As far as Thomas and Galion are concerned, I can honestly say that I feel Thomas, via his YT channel, is one of the handful of reviewers I follow, because he listens, and communicates his findings very well. The fact that he has become an equipment manufacturer, should not deter anyone from seeing the man for who he is. A real good guy, following a passion. As always, just my 2cents. My best to all and Enjoy ! MrD.

Not sure it carries any real significance but since an earlier post in this thread referenced the Doge 10 as being discontinued shortly before the introduction of the TS120, I thought I would share that the TS120 is about to be discontinued.  At least the standard edition and at least in North America.  
 

This came directly from Thomas when I made a recent inquiry about upcoming availability of that model.  He indicated that he would be sharing future model plans in the next month or so.  This surprises me given the relatively short lifespan of the TS120 and the numerous positive reviews.  Not sure if those reviews translated in to robust sales or not and that is the reason or if Doge no longer wished to produce them for Galion.

For those that might find this helpful, I thought I would share my experience with the Galion TS-120SE and how it compared to my PrimaLuna Evo400. Jump to the bullets if you want the highlights. 🙂

I have been on my audio journey since I was in my late teens, when I picked up a pair of B&W speakers from my friend’s families business (a well know HiFi store in Denver). I have been hooked ever since.

My first tube amp was the PrimaLuna Evo400. Watching Kevin Deal highlight the benefits of the amps build was convincing and I like Upscale Audio as a distributor. I have purchased many of my tubes and some of my vinyl gear from there.

During my ownership of the amp, there were certainly some things I enjoyed about it. I was able to get a solid center image on my Tekton Moabs and the sound was very crisp/clear. But with that detail came an element of grain to the highs that I could not seem to eliminate and I was always striving for more warmth/body in the mids to lower mids. Even rolling in $800 worth of NOS tubes did not get me there.

In an effort to achieve the sound I was looking for I began to try other cables, different DACs and ultimately other tube amps. This is when I hand a chance to try the TS-120SE. I had been following Thomas on YouTube for some time and truly appreciate his more objective approach to reviewing HiFi gear. Thomas was more than gracious with his time and addressing all my questions about his amp.

After listing to the Galion for a week, my mind was made up and I decided to list the PrimaLuna for sale. For what I am looking for, the Galion does almost everything better than the Evo400. For those who are interested, I thought I would share how the two amps compared in my space and what features I liked the most on the TS-120SE.

• My favorite setting on the Galion is Class A with tone control on (treble set at neutral and bass set at 3 o,clock on the dial). The amp was smooth in the highs, but not rolled off. The bass was full and filled my room much better.
• The TS-120SE is more organic sounding/more analog/more rich (but not overly colored)
• There are fewer hard edges in the upper mids to treble
• The Evo400 is more clinical sounding to me. I like detail and deep listening, but the detail is ultimately too sharp. Class A on the Galion finds a nice balance.
• I get a very clear center image with my Moabs. The center image was about the same on both amps, but the above factors made the vocals feel more human on the Galion.
• Instrument separation is a bit better with the Galion. The upgraded tubes in the Evo400 are the thing that allows the amp to get closer to the Galion.
• The Galion clearly wins in soundstage depth and three dimensionality. With the Evo400 I get a soundstage that goes about 2ft in front and 2ft behind the speakers. With the Galion the stage about it 2ft behind the speaker and 4-6ft in front.
• One big win I had was my ability to use different cable options to season to taste. I found with the Evo400 I had to be more intentional about what interconnects I use. With the Galion I was able to use cables that render greater detail and enhance the soundstage/create separation. That detail was too much of a good thing on the Evo and this added separation made it sound thin with the same cables.

I just want to update my situation. I am using the Valahalla amp for my main speakers, Spatial Audio Lab X5s. I went to Pacific Audio Fest and met the Spatial Audio Lab gang who are also making the Valhalla amp. Also Don Sachs who built the Valhalla amp (and has taught Cloud Sessions at Spatial Audio Lab to build them) and Lynn Olson whose design Don used. Don and Lynn are building a 300b monoblock piece de resistance which is the main topic of the 300b thread. I got to hear a prototype along with Cloud Sessions' improved Valhalla amp as well as Spatial Audio Lab's new speakers. 

Anyhow, I originally got the Valhalla to drive the Nola Boxers but it was better than the LTA and so the LTA went to drive the Boxers. I changed the set up (furniture) and the LTA unfortunately no longer fit inside the furniture as it was about an inch too wide. I had a Nakamichi TA-4A which had been recapped and sounded good so I used that as a placeholder. 

Carl Marchisotto, the guy who is behind the Nola speakers (and I also said hello to at the Pacific Audio Fest) had emailed me saying that the Boxers were meant to be played with KT88 tubes (the Valhalla uses K66 tubes and the LTA uses EL34s or KT77s) and his customers had found synergy with the Cayin CS-88A integrated tube amp. I finally found one used for sale on the Canuck Audio Mart (I've found some nice stuff there including the Boxers at less than 1/2 price as well as PS Audio's phono stage at about 1/2 price). Just came in today and yes there is synergy and a very rich sound. Heavy sucker bot it fits the space and really works well with the speakers. I had some things to deal with in terms of inputs and the right channel not working until I made sure the tubes were all pushed in but it sounds exactly what I knew these speakers could do. Yay! 

My final decision to pass on the Galion is that I already have a terrific sounding amplifier. Buying the Galion would be a lateral move at best. If I’m going to go through the expense of upgrading, I want it to be for an end-game amp. Usually, this means doubling of the budget spent on the last one.

@veerossi Thanks for the report. I was very much considering the Galion. Thomas had suggested that I be part of the testing process but I declined after obtaining the Valhalla mainly because the effort of switching these heavy amps and connections seemed a bit too much as well as dealing with the shipping. I will say that I am ecstatic with the Valhalla amp and anyone who wants to know about it can ask me but it is off topic here.

It seems that this price point of about $3,500 -- $5,000 has some great options for integrated tube amps. I am curious about your final decision. Was it based upon the tubes, the 805 tubes you have in your LM? Is it the synergy in your system? Or are you thinking of something else?

Hi dz 13. Congrats on the Valhalla amp. Enjoy it!

I was fortunate enough to test a Galion TS120SE. I have a separate discussion for it, but here's my .02 after a month of evaluation.

The week before the Galion arrived, I listened to my current amplifier (Line Magnetic LM-805ia) a couple hours every night so everything was fresh and familiar. Like most of us, I have a reference playlist with songs I’m intimately familiar with.

On the day the Galion arrived I listened for a few hours. My initial thoughts were that it definitely lived up to the claims from Thomas as well as the other Youtubers that reviewed it. He wasn’t joking about it having solid-state-like bass. The bass is great. I liked it a lot. Regardless of what some might have to say about tone controls, I like em. They don't have a ton of adjustment, but it's enough so I can dial in for my liking. I tried switching modes back/forth from bypass to active tone controls (with the knobs in the neutral setting) and I couldn’t hear a difference. I’m not sure if this is an accurate way to test if the tone knobs affect sound quality or not though.

I listened for about a week with the stock tubes and then started wondering how it would respond to tube rolling. I ordered 4qty of the newer Mullard KT88’s, 2 qty Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7, and 2qty 12AU7’s and was curious to see if the Galion would respond to tube rolling in the same favorable way my Line Magnetic did. I swapped the 12AU7’s first and was noticed a wider sound stage. The stock tubes were okay, but the Gold Lions were definitely an improvement as far as soundstage width is concerned. After about 8 hours of listening, I installed the 12AX7’s. They changed the tone a bit, but not much else. I would still recommend them, but not entirely necessary. Lastly, I dropped in the quartet of Mullard KT88’s. Those smoothed things out nicely. After all was said and done with the tube rolling, I was happy with it sounded

One feature I really liked is that is has dedicated RCA outs for a L/R subs. I used those to connect my DEBRA sub array and it sounded much better with dedicated RCA sub connections. On the LM, I had a DIY/ millercarbon recommended line out converter. With Galion sub outs the bass went deeper, was less boomy, cleaner and tighter with more impact.

The midrange was good, but didn’t have the same amount of openness as my L/M. I will say at certain times the Galion did seem to have more soundstage depth though.

The the imaging was great and instruments were nicely separated. No complaints here. The only thing I noticed was in only vocal songs, it sounded more compact than my L/M. The LM seemed slightly more “tubey” sounding and holographic than the Galion.

The top end was nice. No complaints at all. I watched a video that mentioned the top end was harsh early on, but I had no such experience. It was smooth and I listened for hours and hours with no fatigue.

These last 3 things are minor issues, but are things that I would change:

1. Bright blue LED lights are not pleasing to my eyes. I put electrical tape over all of them.

2. The remote buttons are loud. When listening at low volume, even if you smother the button with your entire thumb pad, I can’t make it quieter. It makes a loud click. I would put some electrical tape over those as well to dampen the sound a bit.

3. When I adjust volume (which is often) the volume increment movement is a bit too much. One bump of the volume button would make it loud enough where I’d have to get up and set it manually lower about 1/2 the movement.

In the end, I did not buy it and ended up sending it to the next reviewer. Thomas was great and sent a UPS label to cover shipping. He also sent me a set of Shuangang KT88’s to try out. Those were a little too warm for me/ too much bass. The Mullard KT88’s sounded better to me. Also worth mentioning: the Galion auto biasing worked flawlessly for me.

If you are thinking about it, I say go for it. If the Galion was out when I bought the Primluna EVO 300, I would have purchased the Galion instead. It sounds better to me and I would have also have saved a nice chunk of change.

@avanti1960 Thanks for the clarification. 

@dz13 

Thanks for the info.  The use of the term ChiFi is not derogatory in any way.  It is used to describe decent quality hifi, made in China, that are of extremely high value.  The key is high value. 

Spending amounts of money that are near or above notable mainstream hifi brand products on ChiFi is something I would question.  

@avanti1960 

The $4495 is for the special edition. The standard model Galion is $3495. Having looked at the website, I think the only model Doge they are selling is the Doge 7 not the Doge 10 and it is a special anniversary sale for cash only.  

Thomas posted above:

5)Doge 10 was $2100 when they stop producing many months ago. So imagine if they start selling it again. It would probably be $2250 (due to inflation) + 30% tariff ($675)+ DHL ($400) = $3325 USD to your home. Yes, those are the hidden cost many of you did not pay attention to. While the TS120 normal edition is $3500 (Not a penny more) to your home.

Thomas also pointed out the differences in the amp you get for $175 extra as well in his post. As for the "ChiFi" comment I suppose that is meant to be a derogatory comment about where the product is made. There are numerous products that posters like that are made in China (even if designed elsewhere) or designed and made in China. There is no reason to be dismissive of a product for that one reason. For example Line Magnetic and Prima Luna. 

If you have heard and didn't like the Doge, that is fair comment. It is also fair to recommend alternatives. 

1- The Gallion lists for $4495.  The Doge listed for $1999.  $4495 for a piece of ChiFi? 

2- The NRD video makes them sound more alike than different.  Having owned one of these amps and heard another extensively they are as different as night and day.   My personal recommendation would be the Rogue CM III- IF you can get it stocked with KT 120 tubes.  Not an easy thing to do these days.

@smodtactical It’s a Doge 10.
Internal pics are on the site.

https://doge.audio/product/doge-10-padc/

@turbotan Hey can we see some internal pictures of the amp ?

Me thinks I would steer clear of racks and avoid Thomas and Doge. To many other great choices with solid companies. 

Check out the following link from Doge regarding Thomas.

https://doge.audio/anniversary/

Further to this, I have met Thomas, bought speakers from him, and have had the opportunity to audition the Galion for a couple of weeks without even a deposit for the unit. The Galion is a very nice integrated, and compared very well to my mono blocks that are 3 times the Galion’s price. Not only is Thomas very trusting , he is very trustworthy and professional. He is easily  contacted and responds to enquires and offers advice promptly. 

Well my infernal dialogue is over. I'm getting a Don Sachs Valhalla amp. Very excited. Appreciate all of the posts in this amp. Still very curious to hear the Galion TS120 in person or read reviews from anyone who buys/tries it. 

Musictek.com is a USA seller of Cayin. I bought my HA-6A tube headphone amp from them. Good service. 

I only have that one Cayin amp to compare but it seems very well built and has a very detailed sound. Almost solid state resolution.

I am sure their other integrated tube amps are good. Between those and the Icon Audio I went with the latter for my current stereo amps. UK company and I liked the aesthetics better. Similar price range. And highly resolving. They have really high quality transformers with a tertiary winding to reduce noise.

I have the Icon Audio Stereo 40 mkIV and the 300B mkII. You may wish to consider the Stereo 40 mkIV against the CS88A. 

No problem. Call VAS/Cayin US importer. Ask for Steve. Nice guy. I’ve bought from him. I go by his advice. Mention my name, Brian. He’s taken care of Nola owners. Also a fan of Nola.  Nola voices their speakers with KT88 tubes. 

@clarke10925 Thanks for the information. Not the Cayin A88T however but the relatively newer Cayin CS-88a. 

I'm still going back and forth on several options in my head. 

I saw up above regarding Nola Boxer S3 and Cayin A88T. I own both brands and different models. I was running Nola Contenders S3 with the Cayin A*88T. It’s simply a sweet pairing. The Cayin is built on tried and true circuitry. A Marantz Model 7 pre amp and the McIntosch 275 amp. My friend is riunning his Contenders S3 with the Cayin. He’s ecstatic. I run Nola Metro Gold3 and VAC Sigma 160SE. That’s on another league. The end of the road for me. Damn, when I listen to his system, the Nola sound and Cayin musicality,It’s engaging, I miss it when I hear it. Full disclosure I own alot of equipment! 3 Cayin Amps, 3 pairs of Nola speakers and a hell of alot more. I gave my friend the Nola Contenders told him to buy the Cayin A88T. When I go to his house I miss those Contenders. At a show I hears Nolas Metro Gold3 with the VAC sigma160SE. I cut to the chase and bought that combo. 10 years to save, my end game. 

I am sure it is a very nice amplifier and sounds very good.

But I will never own an auto bias amp ever again (not meaning fixed cathode bias). Or one with a digital control of bias etc.

I would rather not risk a runaway tube if the circuit fails. Or even burning my house down if I forget to turn it off while away and the autobias circuit runs out of control.

Give me a meter and adjustment pots every time or fixed bias. And a set of HT fuses are a nice addition.

Speaking as an engineer and someone who has built many tube amps...even some from scratch.

I expect Doge10 had supply chain issues for their components or possibly even infringed on some design patent from another company.

Who knows but Thomas is in Canada and seems keen on addressing customer concerns so for those of you who wish please support his start up business.

For me personally and for some feedback, I do not like lots of bells and whistles with tube gear. Keep it simple. That is why I do not buy PrimaLuna with the auto bias. I have seen a similar circuit go haywire in a tube guitar amp and bake the power tubes (Carol Ann Amps).

My flavor of the month is Icon Audio. Yes they have been around for a while and UK based. Really enjoying the 300B and Stereo 40 models. Highly resolving tube amps with simple reliable operation.

Just a bit of more information. The DAC module on the ARC i50 just came out. 

Story is here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1dKFaoo5Xs&t=202s

@samureyex email me at thomas.tan@galion-audio.com, I don't mind letting you know in private.

@ladavid  Email me at thomas.tan@galion-audio.com. Where are you located in Canada?

@jjss49 I'm not trying to inflict brain damage but I do agonize over decisions like this. You are correct "entry level" is relative to the manufacturer but "entry level" do tend to be more basic in functions. I actually took that term vis a vis this amp from a YouTube reviewer. It wasn't meant to be derogatory per se.

 I'm not interested the one you linked. My set up is a medium/small room that is open and I have Nola Boxer S3s on top of an audio cabinet. Amusingly, the Nola Boxers are basically entry level as well and also still expensive though I stumbled upon them for less than 1/2 price almost new. 

I'm looking at the LTA Ultralinear + integrated which has a deal now that they are throwing in a phono stage for MM + MC for free. I already have an LTA Z40+ (again bought used and about 2/3 the price for essentially a new unit) integrated for my primary system which I like. I'd love to see a Don Sachs' Valhalla integrated amp come up but that's rare.  The owner of Nola let me know that customers report that they are having good success with the Boxers and the Cayin CS-88a but I'm thinking that the Galion and the LTA might be better. 

The LTA sound is more hybrid than lush tube. I don't have a lot of experience with tube amps but I had a Rogers 65V-2 which was lush and which I loved but then got fatigued with that sound and kept moving towards the hybrid sound. 

Thomas has said that the Galion is more like a hybrid sound. I'm speculating that the ARC is more lush tubey sound but I'm not sure. I might jump on it if I knew more about the DAC module and if the phono stage was fit for low output MC but it's not. The ARC (with both options) is the same price as the LTA. The Galion and the Cayin are both about 1/2 that price. I'm not crazy about anything DIY so the LTA appeals to me because I already know I like the sound (although the Ultralinear is a bit different than the Z40i+). I'm not finding used bargains anywhere so I'm looking at new stuff and the LTA sale won't go on much longer. 

So yes, there is massive brain damage but mostly self-directed and inflicted. My MO is to do as much research as possible and then make an impulsive decision. LTA does give a 14 day trial period and I'm not sure whether any of the others allow for the trial period. 

I'm not here to disparage Thomas or his product or any other product. Thomas and I have had nice private communications. I'm just looking for a bit of help. 

The main reasons I started this thread are that I liked what I heard on New Record Day's tests but I can't really trust YouTube sound checks and I was a bit frustrated from the lack of feedback on this amp outside the inner circle. Nothing nefarious. 

@dz13

@jjss49 Is this an amp you’ve actually heard? Why is this, in your opinion, the answer to everything?

yes in fact i have heard the arc i-50 at length, it is a spectacular amp, thus i highly recommend it, not to mention it is made in minnesota and the servicing for it, if ever needed, is done there by a company who has led the tube amp industry for 50 years, with generations of happy and loyal customers

it is also not the 'answer to everything' but imo a very good answer here...

you do seem to be quite an expert at maximizing brain damage, so i will let you have at it

i would only remind you that ’entry level’ is in the eye of the beholder

here you go... even cheaper... even more brain damage

how about this one?

Thanks @turbotan  Thomas for clearing the air. If it is appropriate, we would love to hear the full story, something about shedding a tear for them. I'm just curious by nature. Medical related as hinted? 

If something like this happens again in the future, maybe a video on your youtube channel + the Gallion channel with a pin message would grab the attention of more people. 

@dz13 I run Sonus Faber Minima Amator 2, Lumin U1 mini and Denafrips Venus 2 DAC. 

@dman1974 Thanks for posting your experience. What speakers were you driving?

I had both versions for home demo. Both are great but the special edition is much smoother than the standard edition. The sound stage is deep and wide. The top end has very nice air and details. Class A is far better than the A/B. Sorry Thomas, the A/B wasn’t doing it for me but yes, definitely the class A was what I preferred. I actually lost my job during the process and my wife was shitting on me for buying a new amplifier so Thomas took it back. Once I get back up and going again I will definitely be purchasing the special edition. Anyone saying Thomas is a slime ball salesman has obviously not had any dealings with him. He’s a straight up guy and he’s put a lot of blood sweat and tears into this amp. That’s why I wanted to buy it. How many companies go to the degree he did to bring a product to market and put their entire reputation on the line? Follow the story of the Galion and Thomas before making comments like that. 

@turbotan 

Keep up the good work and pay no attention to the peanut gallery. :-)

I have been watching this amp - looking for a tube amp with a bit more power than my LTA Ultralinear.  Have just restored an old pair of Ellis Audio 1801s that I built in 2005 - something like 84 db and need a bunch more power - so much so I have also been looking at new generation of class d as well.  Also have Zu Soul Supreme that like low powered amps but have read maybe like amps with some grunt even more.  Love this crossover - from youtube star who listens to a bunch of gear to gear builder and provider.  Would love to get on a tour if there ever is one - and I am in Canada!

@dz13 I actually heard the Audio research I50 with the horn $15k+ Avantgarde speakers that were very sensitive. So it definitely was not a bottleneck. I personally loved it, it was nonaggressive and smooth, and it really showcased the strength of the 6550, very pleasant to listen to. Reminded me of the Cayin CS55a with 6550 coke bottle tubes. If you want to relax and enjoy the music, I would say it is worth auditioning.

Having said that, my friend Mr. Kanta did not like it because he said it lacked dynamic contrast but take his observations with a grain of salt because that day we were listening to many $200k+ systems so it is easy to get confused when we had things to compare.

@jjss49 Is this an amp you’ve actually heard? Why is this, in your opinion, the answer to everything?

I've been trying to investigate it and there are a few things bothering me. First, the optional modular phono stage is MM and high output MC cartridges but not low output MC cartridges. The optional modular DAC has almost no information about it. 

This is supposed to be an entry level product but it costs anywhere from $5,500 to $7,250 with the options. That means that it is competing with many mid to high level products from other companies. How does it compare to other integrateds in the same price area?  

seems to me the answer to all this nonsense and brain damage is simply this...

... but then again, i get it, some folks will contort themselves into pretzels and jump through rings of fire to save a few bucks

Time for noodles…and music.

@dz13  Thanks. Email me at thomas.tan@galion-audio.com, maybe when the Youtubers are done with the units I have sent out, I can ship one to you for evaluation.

Thanks @turbotan for the lowdown. 

I don't think most of the posts are negative. Many, like me, are just trying to figure stuff out with the limited information. 

And there you have it folks. Thanks Thomas. I'm having too much fun with the TS120 Amp. Toobs are for Boob !

Please keep any posts going forward positive and any questions, of course Thomas is an email away and truly is quick to respond.

Meanwhile, I'll still be Schilling for his Amps. Cause they are that good !

It is Thomas here, allow me to chime in to clarify everything.

Before we begin, let me clarify, there is Doge the main company, and the externally hired employee who controls the website.

1) Doge and Galion are 2 separate companies. I incorporated Galion here in Canada and I wanted the company to meet western standards as I was born in England and was raised in the west. For example, Galion has proper multi-million dollar liability insurance. The logo and name were registered properly, all amplifiers have certifications, and so forth

2)Doge discontinued the Doge 10 at least 6-8 months before TS120 hit the market so I was not the reason why they discontinued it. Although they do make more by selling the TS120 to me, it is not the main reason because if it were a question of money, they would have kept producing Doge 10 until the TS120 comes out. For them to give up on 6 to 8 months of profit means they had no choice. Logical? If I told you the whole story, you would shed a tear for them. It has nothing to do with the company itself.

3)Doge website is controlled by the external employee and Doge the main company have no control over what is written on it. "samureyex" deduction was pretty smart. Think about it, would a sane company write something like that about their own client?

4)Galion was a project worked on only by Doge the main company and things were kept secret without sharing anything with the external employee. That is why what is written on the Doge website is factually incorrect. For example, people who worked on the TS120 know the reason we cannot put silver VitaminQ in the TS120 is that it is not ROHS compliant. This means you cannot sell it in Europe, Canada, and some parts of the USA. The only ROHS silver vitamin Q in North America is in my hands right now recently developed by Jupiter for me. You will see it in the upcoming Galion Solidstate amp. The upgrades in the TS120 were all done by Doge so obviously they would not put any "signal blocking stuff" that would be bad for the amp as claimed on the Doge website. (Run by the external employee)

5)Doge 10 was $2100 when they stop producing many months ago. So imagine if they start selling it again. It would probably be $2250 (due to inflation) + 30% tariff ($675)+ DHL ($400) = $3325 USD to your home. Yes, those are the hidden cost many of you did not pay attention to. While the TS120 normal edition is $3500 (Not a penny more) to your home.

So what do you get for about $175 more?

1) A better amplifier. 6 months of my life tuning the sound. (Does anyone want to pay me 6 months of salary? Do you know how much I was making before? Please add that to the cost of the TS120) I worked with 2 other experts outside Doge (one of them is the designer of the upcoming Galion Solidstate amp) and with Doge closely to fine-tune the amp. The amp also had custom parts made by Jupiter (TS120SE) to get it to sound the way I want. I hate bright-sounding amps with a passion. The amp is designed by Mr. Liu the CEO and I insisted that he print his name on the back of the TS120. No company does that, I wanted to recognize him for his work because I was raised in a western society where I learn to give credit where credit is due.

People keep using terms like 95% of Doge 10 without knowing the design differences between both amps. If they are so similar, they would sound similar. One amp is bright and one amp is not. If you like to believe a Toyota is 95% of a Lexus, more power to you.

2) Warranty by Galion. All issues are resolved super fast. I have the full support of Doge so all technical questions that I cannot answer are handled by them. They even called a client for me. Many components are stored in North America for faster service. For example, If there are any tube issues, it only takes a few days to get a new replacement. Also, I would instantly swap a brand new unit when I find the issue too long to fix. (Only happened once) This is only possible because I priced the units correctly to allow me to give excellent customer service.

3) All emails are answered in a reasonable time. (I gave up my job to do this because this is what I would expect from any company, to answer me quickly)

4) Free HIFI gear advice (Yup, I get a lot of those)

5) Warehouses in US and Canada for faster delivery going forward. (I will have TS120SE stock up soon too)

There is a reason why Jay made a video complaining about the poor customer service of Doge. Customer service was done by the same person maintaining the website. This was a source of pain for Doge as it affected their reputation. Another reason they rather just deal with me. If you were Doge the owner, how would you feel when your own website trashes your own client? Why not fired the employee? Once again, I don’t want to talk about it as it involves sharing medical information.

6) The version Jay heard was the Alpha version. It is because of him I had to work harder and went back to the drawing board. If it takes tube rolling to get the amp to sound good, it means I had failed. I wanted it to blow people away with stock tubes.
Jay finally heard the latest version and he was so impressed he asked me to bring it to Axpona with him to launch his secret speaker.

Here are actual owners who share their experience with the TS120 with photos as proof. https://www.galion-audio.com/blogs/news/reviews

Finally, I want to apologize to everyone for all this mess. I try my best to keep quiet but I see people keep accusing me of all kinds of things that simply are not true. I try my best to be respectful no matter what and that is why I wrote this message in a neutral tone. If you have any questions, instead of making things up or imagining things, email and ask me. If needed, I will get the CEO of Doge to contact you directly and yes, I had to do it for a few people. I don’t like going back and forth on a forum so I will not debate anyone here.

Even if it’s the same exact amp, it seems like a risk of $3500-4500 on a product with ad-hoc “support” by an individual with limited knowledge of the inner workings of the equipment they’re selling. 

I’m not speaking as a fan of Thomas, I’m just simply deducting logic from the website. There is absolutely no way The TS120 can compete with the Doge10 if it’s 95% similar. Just no way. If it can’t compete and you want it to compete, what do you do? You remove the Doge10, Thomas has 0 power to do that unless it’s in Doge’s best financial interest.

I am very familiar with Thomas, and I watch all of his videos. So please take a minute to read what I have to say regarding this amp.

The Gallion TS120 is made by Doge, AFAIK, it's a collaboration between Thomas and Doge. From Thomas own words, I have to assume and conclude Thomas only worked on the voicing aspect of the amp, most of it is just the work of Doge with their own product. 

From what I can read on the website, Thomas isn't to blame for what is being discussed in this thread. The 1st crucial piece is the boss Mr. Liu doesn't like direct sales, and he wants to go back to OEM. You can tell Mr. Liu wants to pull the plug on the direct-sale approach. 

The 2nd crucial piece of information is Doge own management (has nothing to do with Thomas) doesn't want the doge10 to compete with Gallion TS120. Both product are from Doge. I have to assume the $3500/$4500 TS120 is better profit for Doge than the $2000 doge10. 

You can clearly tell this is Doge's work and decision to maximize profit. The 3rd piece of information is "if the TS120 sale is robust, doge10 MK4 will be kicked out even though it's a better product". 

Reading the website gives me the impression that a Doge employee is mad at Doge upper chain doing a business collaboration with Thomas.

The Galleon evolution has been a fun trip to watch and Thomas has been pretty up front about it.  He had the idea to monetize his youtube following and voice an offshore  built amp to fit his idea of a better sound.  He even had followers comment on the faceplate markings as he developed it.  One of the interesting parts of his learning curve was the realization that to get where he is today required lots of capacitor trial and error that changing one set could undue the positive effects of the changes he just made.  I'm sure that Thomas has a huge amount of time and had to commit to quite a few units to bring the Galleon to market.  He originally proposed the amp under $3000 but it's now approaching double that.  

I haven't heard the amp and it isn't really something that would I would use in my current system but I'm sure it's fine and  cost competitive with other amps out there.  My only issue is that knowing Thomas has a financial interest in a product, how does this affect his reviews?  

The whole Galion thing is weird and unnecessary given the number of options in the tube integrated market.

I always thought Doge’s decision to undermine sales ( or risk their reputation ) of their own product in order to fill orders for a YouTuber an odd one. Thomas is admittedly “not technical”, why would Doge let someone with his background direct a product and release it under a different label? Is the expectation that his small circle of YouTube pals will generate enough interest in Doge to allow for sales by association? Conversely, any future amplifier “reviews” set to reduce his credibility since he’s essentially a competitor this market. 

Also curious how warranty and repair claims are handled…I would hope these are under Doge’s purview. The whole thing seems set up to simply allow a YT personality an opportunity to play manufacturer like will.I.am playing car designer.
 

@dz13 I totally understand your point. Thomas has shown the Amp in Montreal, Toronto, & now Chicago (Axpona) next month. He has been dealing with this confusion for a while now and clearing the air. But it HAS NOT affected his sales and even the CEO of Doge has reached out. They want this Amplifier to be successful and I’m sure it will be based on what I've heard and played with so far.

Cheers,

Joe

@rajugsw thanks for your feedback. You're the only one in this thread who actually has hands on the amp. I was mainly concerned because of the posts on the Doge site and the seeming lack of full disclosure about the amp including whether the glare which could be a problem for some with the Doge 10 was still there.  

I never thought that the Galion was a scam, I just wanted some feedback outside the inner circle.