Simply put, replacing a slow blow with a fast blow risks "nuisance" (unnecessary) blows, while replacing a fast blow with a slow blow risks extensive damage to the equipment (and conceivably even the possibility of a fire) if a fault were to occur.
A substantial change in the "nominal melting" (amps squared-seconds) parameter of a fuse, which would result from a change between fast and slow blow types, amounts to a design change in the equipment, which should not be done without careful analysis. And the information about the design that would be necessary to do that analysis will generally be unavailable to the end user.
Regards,
-- Al |
Hopefully, people listen to AL in that that is really the thing that "matters" most with fuses.
How different ones in good operating condition sound is a distant second IMHO. Lots of other ways to tweak ones system without putting it at risk IMHO. |
Mapman, I like the IMHO. As long as people respect the fast versus slow distinction and the amp value on the stock fuse, experimentation is perfectly safe. Why you would advocate avoiding the fuse tweak, I don't understand. |
Tbg,
In general, I do not advocate people open up their expensive gear and make a tweak in the interest of better sound unless they really know what they are doing. Accidents happen, and there are many other much less risky ways to tweak for better sound. In some cases, vendors might even void a warranty if the device is opened up by anyone not authorized.
For someone who truly knows what they are doing, more power to 'ya!
|
Mapman wrote,
"In general, I do not advocate people open up their expensive gear and make a tweak in the interest of better sound unless they really know what they are doing. Accidents happen, and there are many other much less risky ways to tweak for better sound. In some cases, vendors might even void a warranty if the device is opened up by anyone not authorized."
Thanks for the words of caution. Crap, I already had my Oppo modded! Please don't rat me out to Oppo. Lol |
Mapman, I know your concerns but most components have externally accessible fuses. |
Just a short update.
A couple of my friends reported back that they are satisfied with the AMR fuses that they purchased.
The fellow with the Maggies noticed an improvemnt,just waiting for another update about how an AMR fuse does with his Rega amp.
A year ago, I wouldn't have been able to give them one for free to try in their gear for fear of some mishap.
I see some are still hesitant to try them,but the ones that can be replaced in the IEC power inlets most gear have doesn't require a degree in EE.
I can also state that a .5 amp fuse will blow if placed where a 5 amp fuse is supposed to be.
Lesson, always check the fine print on the fuse,now I use a magnefying glass.
I guess all the reviewers who show the innards of the gear they are reviewing have voided the warranties?
I'm curious,how about some references to the less risky tweaks?
I'm always open to investigate new ways to get better sound.
The upgraded fuses have been simple to install and not very costly(AMR-$20.00) and I've had no issues.
After all the more costly upgrades and tweaks I've used, I'd say they are a bargain.They do more for less than the other things I've tried.
So fill me in. |
"They do more for less than any other tweak I've tried"
Lacee that's my conclusion also after using the Synergistic Research Quantum fuses .
They provided a very noticeable improvement. As long as one observes the proper fuse value markings and the slo -fast blow distinction there's much upside potential with little cost and minimal risk.
Regards, |
I'm a little late to the party but my experiences with HiFi tuning fuses in my previous gear (MBL preamp) yielded a noticeable improvement in clarity. I am very bummed out that my non of my current gear has any external fuses I can change. |
Oh, found out the Accustic Arts Power 1 mkii integrated I just bought does have a replaceable fuse. Sweet. I will be picking up the Hif-Tuning Supreme and SR Quantum fuses to compare. I will report back in a few weeks. |
Update,my friend reports that his AMR fuse for his Rega Elicit amp was the last tweak he feels that he needs to do.
He has been satisfied with his sound many times over the years, and that usually lasts for a few weeks, so if he keeps his system intact, then I would say the AMR or other upgrade fuse maybe the place to start and end in this hobby for some people.
I would suggest that anyone who is starting to tire of the sound of their system, or is looking for a change, that a $20.00 investment in an AMR fuse is the place to start.
If you are still disatisfied, then start on the buy/sell wagon and good luck. |
You can't go wrong with the AMR, because they are such good value as a three pack. But the SR20 fuses are just the best imo.
My theory as to why the SR fuses are so directional, is that going by the minimal information available, Synergistic use a high voltage 'Telsa' conditioning process. So they are conditioned in one direction. |
Agisthos, when I asked SR if they were directional, I was told that they put them on the Tesla Coil both ways and therefore are not directional. I have found them quite directional. Some people suggest directionality by the way the lettering runs. In the five instances were I was pretty sure what the right way was, having the fuse lettering run the wrong way was best sounding. The best thing to do, however, is to try it both ways. But you should realize that the fuse may take some time to sound its best. |
Hi All ,Has anyone tried the SR fuse with and without the
WA Quantum chips? Was there a marked difference and how.
Tawa. |
Captain, you comments are illogical.
Live long and prosper. |
Tawa, yes there is a substantial improvement in clarity and dynamics. The sound stage becomes more involving. In my opinion the fuse WA Quantums have the biggest improvement. |
Thank you Tbg,i have tried the SR fuse in my phono stage and it sounds great with slow music, espiecally female vocals.
when playing music of the uptempo or fast and furious variety I quickly lose interest.not too sure what it is, can only suspect a loss of timing or so called PRAT.
This is with the WA Quantum chips 2 ,I will try them without the chips in the near future. |
Tawa, turn the fuse around. |
The Audio Magic fuses leak when blown. I had one blow in Transporter and when I went to remove it, there was oil leaking. Luckily, I removed it before it leaked into the circuit board. I would not use these fuses even if they created a 3d holographic image from my system. Must be a violation of electrical codes and a danger to the equipment. |
I just received a response from Audio Magic to my question, "is the liquid inside the Nano Liquid Fuse conductive?" His answer is, "No." |
Were it conductive, how could one blow a fuse? |
Doesn't even border on Rocket Science, does it? |
Shamanjr, fuses are meant to blow when something is not correct in the system. You could consult Jerry @ Audio Magic before blasting the product twice. |
Isochronism, I think the question is why did it leak, not why did it blow. |
Sometimes when you blow things, they leak. |
Liquids expand when heat is applied, and liquids will not compress(had to go somewhere). Any overload, that heats a fuse's element slowly, will also heat the liquid. A rapidly blown fuse element; not quite as much. |
Roxy, I wouldn't touch your comment with a ten inch pole.
Rodman, I have a few of these fuses. They are not completely filled with the polymer. Maybe about 75-80%. I don't know what the coefficient of thermal expansion is for this particular polymer, but it would take an enormous amount of heat to pressurize the fuse to the point of breaking the glass or pushing off the end cap. This particular fuse is a 800 milliamp fast blow fuse. If the OP's Sony drew enough current to do this, he's got more to worry about than a non conductive polymer on his PC board. |
Mr B- I wonder what the odds are of one of these fuses getting off the line completely filled. It would then take very little expansion, to result in leakage. Hydraulic pressure HAS to go somewhere. Perhaps combined with a loose cap/poor seal? Manufacturing anything, without some kind of failure rate(however slight), is next to impossible. I just don't believe that it's leaking when it blew, was simply coincidental. |
After reading so many posts about fuses on the net, it seems too many people are overlooking the safety factor these fuses are made, and used for. Some people even state they are using jumpers in place of fuses. Some people state they leave the home while their system is running too. I hope they don't live in a multiple family dwellings, and are putting others at risk by doing what they choose with these protection devices.
I've also read somewhere that Liquid Fuses may be filled by them. In my opinion, if the fuses were tested before by any independent labs such as UL, they need to be tested by them again, such as UL (other testing agencies too), for any of the past testing agencies markings to still be valid. The fuse element (or burn wire) runs hot. It may be close to its melting point during a listening session. If that element is immersed in a liquid, they may not blow as fast as originally designed. A fast blow may take on qualities like a slow-blow fuse. A slow-blow can be slower yet, than its designers originally intended. I can see the liquid heating up, while cooling the element up during operation. This is why I believe they need to be tested accurately again, in my opinion.
Maybe these were retested by some independent testing agency after the modification? The equipment they use to measure the blow times can be expensive, and may not be owned by some of these after market companies. It would be nice to know if they were tested, and provide a new spec sheet too. It's common sense that when the element (burn wire) is immersed into a liquid, specs will change.
A lot of engineering goes into products, and all of the parts used in them. For the customer to change to something that may have taken years to be designed by knowledgeable people, may be more risky that they realize. Don't forget, every part used took time to design. A fuse is there to protect the product, and to prevent fires. I would make sure the fuse you use can safely protect you, and your product. Neighbors too. I wouldn't experiment with unknowns. Again, designers put fuses in them for protection.
Also, you may void any warranty on your product. It's not a manufacturer's responsibility to repair something that may have been protected by a fuse that was changed by the buyer/user, if it wasn't an exact, specified, replacement. Just because somebody else is doing some experiment and nothing has happened yet, doesn't mean it won't sometime after. Use common sense. Some people seem to be going too far, without having any knowledge about the engineering that went into these products, and possibly, the safety risk. |
Rodman, I agree that something must have gone wrong. The residual gas in the fuse could have pressurized sufficiently to crack an existing flaw in the glass I suppose. |
It would be nice for Mr S to return the fuse to Jerry, for analysis. |
Hifitime, You make some valid points, but I think we need to give people like Jerry at Audio Magic credit for not being complete idiots. I don't know if he has had his fuses retested by UL or not. But I do think when he was designing his fuses he probably didn't just drill a hole in a 5A fuse, fill it with some quaker state 10W30, and start selling them as 5A fuses without ensuring that they blow at the specified current.
However, his customers need to use some common sense too. When I replaced my standard 8A fast blow fuses with the AM liquid filled fuses I bought a 7A fuse instead of an 8. I'm hoping that gives me a little extra insurance that the fuse will blow when (hopefully before) I need it to blow.
I've had about 7 of these fuses in my system since they first came out. They do make a difference, and I think the risk is low enough to be acceptable. For those that think otherwise, there are plenty of non-fluid filled fuses out there. I also have a few SR fuses in my system. |
This is all ridiculous. The fuse leaked and the fuse blew. One thing may relate to the other but not necessarily. There is not much engineering in fuses. The filament needs to be sufficiently thin to blow with at the rated current. If it is slow blow there needs to be some heat absorption to allow for surge currents. In some fuses the filament is designed to be exposed to air and in others not.
ULs is a for profit company and, of course, sells its services. Having retesting of fuses would cost money as would certification of an audio component. This is why you don't see these labels on much audio equipment. Designers can roughly calculate what their circuit should draw and try a fuse with just above that value. They then can see if it works. If they blow many fuses, they go to a higher value, unless they find a problem with their circuit. Obviously too high a fuse value may allow overheating of the equipment and the potential for a fire or a safety issue. |
Hi Guys,
The liquid I use acts like an insulator and will not dissipate heat like alot
of liquids. This liquid has been tested extensively and my fuses always
blow appox 1 sec sooner than a stock fuse, this I can live with. Mr. "
shamnanjr " should send the fuse back instead of continuing to whine.
good grief!.
Jerry
|
Thank you Jerry! Still enjoying your Stealth XXX, Al |
Personally I find the Synergistic Research fuses the most natural balanced fuses. I have tried 5 of the named brand ones either bought or tried through friends.They literally can take 200 hours to fully open up because of the solid Alloy end caps,type of composite metals ? Not disclosed . As far as direction The owner stated go with writing following the current flow.
Which I have done for years and seems to work out well. |
I had to learn some fuses will breakin much more then others for their end caps are a solid alloy and just like Interconnects can take in some cases over 200 hours .look at the Review online of the Synergistic fuses
The reviewer stated even into the several weeks he then heard them open up. What the review does not say is did he have the unit playing music 24-7
As a rule of thumb I just let play for a solid 10 days or roughly 250 hours to fully settle in components ,as well as fuses. The first 100 hours with the synergistic are tippedup in scale.they donot expose type of metal but
I know their new metal Tungston they use in one of their better cables a small % The majority ofCopper,and Silver.The most depth out of
Any fuses I have tried and I have tried the top 5 most popular out there.
Also for the doubters,look at the metals resistance index steel in the common fuse has 7x more resistance then Copper or Silver ,which is a Huge bottleneck X all the fuses. Expensive yes but low level detail,and
Separation of instruments is what the fuses do best as well as small improvements elsewhere.forget the few bucks spent.i spent over $500
Alone when I had the Ayon Skylla dac 11fuses but sonicly worth it.bsd design,the less fuses the better in a circuit. |
Audioman58, I used to double check on rule of following the lettering as the current flow. In six trials that sounded better than the opposite. I will also note that I have always found the little WA fuse chips help the SR fuses if put on the center of the fuse. I have always found that treatment with the Tesla coil is better than cyrogenic treatment, but I have no idea whether they do the same thing. |
I dunno if anyone else has tried it, but I personally find the new Super Fuse from Audio Magic to be very open, detailed and natural sounding. |
Norm,
Never did the Tesla thing but multiple cryo's sound better than just the one. It seems to be progressive, I have had the same parts treated up to six times. Enhances magnets and powders as well. Chill only don't heat temper. Tom |
Over a year now and no problems with the HiFi Supremes in the servo amps. |
Anyone compared the SR Red vs the Audio Horizons Platinum? I have HiFi Tuning Supreme and would like to upgrade for (even) more dynamics and details. |
Great question. Also, has anyone compared the Audio Horizons, Synergistic Research Red and the new improved Audio Magic Super Fuse? |
Jazzonthehudson - First, how are you doing, I hope all is well. Below is a copy of my impressions on another Audiogon thread about the Red fuse.
I have liked some Synergistic products and my Mono Amps, the Veritas by Merrill Audio, already have the previous Synergistic Quantum fuses installed in them as part of their design. When I had my PS Audio Perfectwave DAC MKII and Transport I tried the Hifi Tuning Supreme fuses and found them to be a slight improvement. Later I put the then new Synergistic Quantum fuses in both the DAC and Transport in place of the HiFi Tuning fuses. Again there was a slight improvement. Neither made an easy to notice improvement. Besides those I tried a few others over the years. Some you could not tell any difference.
Along comes the NEW Red Fuse. I figured why not give it a shot. They have a 30 day trial. So I contacted my Amp manufacture and asked him to order me a set and if he could please install them.
Please keep in mind that my Mono Amps sound great. I am very happy with how they sound from top to bottom. And have no plans to change them.
I really expected to hear either no difference or barely any. I thought I would have to strain and really concentrate to hear any, if any, difference. I realized that since the amps had been transported and opened that they would need some time to settle once back in my system. So I played some music through them for a couple of hours while I left the house and did some errands.
BOY! Was I surprised. There was a top to bottom improvement and it was EASY to hear the difference.
I have been asked by several people, some of whom own the same Amps, how I would describe the change. I have ONE word that comes right to mind.
REFINEMENT
You name it and it was better. Seriously!
I do not know how they did it but they made a great sounding amp sound better all over. With just a FUSE.
This is one of the best returns in audio I have ever got on my money.
I would love to install them in my Meitner MA1 DAC but it is made so only Meitner can open it, as far as I can tell.
I can not guarantee that you will experience the same but Synergistic does with a 30 day money back.
Regardless what you may believe about whether fuses could make a difference this is a no brainier. You get a 30 day money back trial to see and it is not costly if it works.
I highly recommend them, and it is the first fuse I can say that about.
Now if I can just figure out a way to get it into my Meitner MA1 DAC... |
interesting Hifial, I may give some of the red fuses a spinn in my modded krell 700cx amp, and futher the modds by doing so, cheers. |
I use the Synergistic Research fuses and I think Audiolabyrinth will find the RED fuse to really increase the musicality of his system.
I found it to be a fun and rewarding experiment with no downside. |
Here's a review between the AH and the new Red; I have AH and may try the Red...
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue75/red_fuses.htm |
Thanks Ron for the comp, though that reviewer is using SR for power conditioning and all cabling, and must be grateful to SR for so much generosity. Just need a concluding one between the SR Red and AM super fuse. I have AM Liquid Nano in my mono blocks that could use an upgrade and will order the the "new black" for them and my DAC.
Hi Al, I am doing fine, still happily tweaking and have actually done more than I noted on my systems page. The recent round of cable upgrades, a.o. power cords, has logically made me revisit all tweaks in the power path that does not require sending the unit to a shop. Glad to hear that the SR Red fits well both upstream and downstream and does not exhibit the imbalance that their Tesla SE sockets - though pretty good - have. |
FWIW, a few years ago I went through a few of fuses for my Plinius SA201; HiFi Supreme, AMR and Furutech. The Furutech seemed the most balanced to me with the HiFi supreme more dynamic, but brighter especially in the high mids. The AMR was is a great bargain and very easy to listen to but lacked some detail by comparison. All three were better than the stock fuses and the replacing the rail fuses made much more of a difference than the mains fuse.
My Klyne seemed to like the HiFi fuse more, but the difference was difficult to pin down and I wouldn't swear to the impacts of the different fuses. The pre has only a mains fuse and it is in the DC converter...
Charles-I should be receiving the AMR DP777SE soon and am anxious to see what you think of the AM vs the SR although it would be easy to take for granted that their fuse would be a nice match for their own gear...of course all the normal caveats apply. |
Hi everyone, question, 250 volt 1 amp glass fuse is a fast blow fuse?, the fuse has a straight wire that is not spring looking, however, the fuse is full size, not the smaller of the pics that is on the site of the red fuses, man, I would need four for the amplifier! |
