As a previous owner of the Parasound P5, next year(when your bank account has recovered!) I'd suggest a new pre. The P5 is not completely faithful to the signal and the phono section is nothing special, something that is common among budget components. The problem is, pre's can get very expensive as well, especially with manufacturers that use a distributor/dealer network. Everybody needs a certain percentage to make it worthwhile.
So I'd suggest an internet direct manufacturer where prices are much better for the performance delivered. When I directly compared my Halo P5 to a Schiit Saga pre, the Saga had significantly more detail and a better soundstage. It retails for $350. There are several options in the direct market.
Well it’s been 6 months since my last post and I thought I should update everyone. After sampling as many as I could I kept coming back to a set I heard many years ago. I found a pair for sale here and made an offer. Now I am the proud new owner of a beautiful pair of Wilson Audio Watt Puppy Series 8. I’ve been using them for about a week now and am absolutely in love with my choice.
Thabk you for everyone that provided input input along the way. It was a long journey and a difficult decision to make. I did have to go a little over budget but sometimes to get what you want you have to make that sacrifice. No regrets.
If you're on Instagram you can see pictures and follow my journey @dussenm3
The audio Dr. reference to choosing musicality or accuracy is absurd. The whole reason high-end audio exists is the replicate a recording as accurately as possible. Unfortunately, if the recordings are poorly engineered that playback can be fatiguing. You do not buy a system based on its ability to color the recording with its characteristics. My father was a Julliard trained jazz pianist and had a Steinway grand in our living room which I listen to almost every day. I played jazz guitar for nearly ten years and know what instruments sound like. I have a pair of Martin Logan master series loudspeakers along with a paraquat 2905’s electrostatics. I am using audio research on the Martin Logan’s and Cary audio electronics on the quads (second system) I just had a chance to listen to the Vandersteen Audio Quatro against the Martin Logan’s and quads and they sounded like speakers rather than music. I find the most significant difference was listening to drivers on the Vandersteen rather than the cohesive image generated from the electrostatic speakers. The timbre of the instruments and attack were much better on electrostatics. I also find some dynamic speakers that stay true to the original recording such as the Wilson Benesch revolutions (auditioned at the Rocky mountain audio show) and still like the Rogers LS 3/5 A’s for musical accuracy in the mid-range. I think one of the finest loudspeakers for the money was Sanders new Electrostatic which was incredibly realistic sounding. I’m in the process of downsizing my systems and would recommend looking at the following loudspeakers. I think the monitor audio new gold series for $7000 retail is an excellent speaker and was reviewed highly by absolute sound. Wilson Benesch is less expensive speakers that range between $5000 and $10,000 that sounded quite good at the audio show. I have to mention that my opinions are based on listening to primarily jazz and blues. I was one of Linn Sondek premier dealers at one time but Primarily listen to the high-resolution digital source (24 bit depth/192 or recordings using MQA). I once thought digital sources sounded like transistor radios compared to vinyl, but the differences have diminished exponentially.
PS in the 90s I owned one of the most prestigious audio stores in the country and was introduced to the audio business by Dan D’Agostino of Krell and Levinson. I did business with many of the industry icons including Bill Johnson (who used to fly his plane to deliver audio research product to me) Bill Conrad, Nelson pass, Richard Vandersteen, and too many more to list here. I also imported along with Paul Heath the JR Rogers loudspeakers from Britain.
I've heard speakers that take my legs out they're so amazing to hear at the shop only to get home and wonder where's the magic. Some speakers, Kef and Revel off the top of my head have elaborate xovers and can sound lifeless in the wrong room or with less than several hundred watts pushing them. I think if you want sota and full range you will have to find another couple grand and shop in the $10k market. The persona 3f is on sale it isn't full range but the bass it has is tight and full and you'll be happy with it. the f228be has a tweeter and upgraded drivers also can be found for $7500. I love the mid range of the Kanta 2 but not sure if the bass can keep up with the rest. PS do your taxes b4 shopping this year, nasty surprises in store.
Finally had a chance to audition some speakers on the list and eliminate a few. Here’s my updated list. I chose not to add anymore for now as I want to downsize this a bit before adding onto it.
I also demoed a few not on the list and a few out of my price range.
Motorman is right . Do yourself a favor and listen to a pair of Bache audio tribeca 001. I was at the NY audio show in Nov and there were only 2 rooms that had exceptional sound. the Harbeth room auditioning the m.40.2 at $15,000 a pair / and the Bache audio room auditioning a pair of tribeca 001 at $5500 a pair. Two completely different sounding speakers of course. But wow it was nice to see/hear someone who knows how to make a full range speaker. Fostex super tweeters at $1000 a pair,who does that !! Anyway based on your stated music preference the tribeca’s will easily out perform anything else in your price range. Good Luck
See if you can get your hands on a pair of used Anthony Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.5 or 3.1 speakers. They are remarkably "full-range", and remarkable performers, considering their price (MSRP and on the used market).
Also, check out the GoldenEar Technology range of speakers. They are very well reviewed and also seem to have a goal of presenting a "complete" frequency response.
My first thought was the Revel f208, but I personally would look at the Usher Dancer 2 or one of the larger ushers used because they seem to be more amp friendly.
lots of options in the under 5K category. Another consideration, hold on the speakers, put 3K into your source gear, arm, cartridge, phono preamp and spend 2K on speakers. Feed as much music to the last element in the chain. You can a lot of cartridge for $700-$1000 - e.g. Hana and Ortofon, I've heard really good things about the Parasound JC3 jr. phono.
Also if you haven't done some room analysis and treatment, lots can be gained there as well. Great gear in a poor room never reaches it's potential.
Lastly - Vandersteen's and others present some interesting biamping options - with solid state for the bass and tubes for the mid/highs.
Do yourself a favor and check out the specs on the Bache Audio Tribeca-001.... Search for: "Bache Audio" in Audiogon and I believe they have a set of white ones for UNDER $5000. I have a custom set (different color) I have owned for a year and absolutely love them. Crystal clear and great bass with a small footprint!! Greg was wonderful to deal with and you won't be disappointed! I believe they are in Brooklyn but can ship anywhere. Container was awesome, on a pallet and everything.
You can add Audio Solutions speakers to your list. I heard a model I think was the Figaro L at a show and it sounded great. I know it was around $5k in price and a floorstander.
Once again I'd like to thank everyone for the valuable input. This really is a tough decision that cannot be determined overnight. A lot of factors come into play and below are just a few that help cut the list down.
Full Range being my biggest need/want meaning I only want 2 speakers. I
do not want to add a subwoofer. This being said we should be able to knock out
a few. If the frequency response doesn’t get below 30 Hz then in my mind a
subwoofer would be needed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Another
things I can’t do is something that looks hideous. Unfortunately for me looks
do play a part in some of this, after all no one likes showing off their ugly
beat up car and I sure and hell don’t want to show off ugly speakers. I’m not stating
exactly which ones I booted for looks because some of you have your own
opinions which is allowed.
Now
a few I knocked out just because I have no way of auditioning them, which for
me is kind of a big deal. I’d hate to buy a car without a test drive.
Take the time to put Martin Logan Requests on your audition list. You have a room they should work in nicely. I own Focals 946 Electra's, which I run with a 100W amp and love. I'm not about to change my amp and speakers, but you have plenty of power to run electrostatics.The
Requests
may very well have the sound your looking for. They go for $2500-$3500 on the used market.Good luck.PS; They're particular where they're placed, so be prepared to monkey with where exactly do they sound best in a room.
JM Labs Utopia, older floor standing models, maybe a little above $5k, though they would outclass everything else in your system. Match with cables would be important, more than on average, or they will sound bright and forward. Don't know how low at how high db level they go, but you could find this information. Not easy to find, I guess. Very different sound compared to Vandersteen, as an example.
For around $5,000 , I would look at TEKTON speakers and a pair of Tekton subs.. and possibly upgrading your amps to a tube variety, Quicksilver, Decware, VTA, Don Sachs..
I have on order a pair of Double Impact SE’s at $4,500 (2,000 off MSRP) , These are going to be hard to beat for the $.. They are on sale right now, and since I didn’t want the mirror finish on them Eric gave another $1,000 discount..
I’m upgrading from the Tekton Seas Pendragon’s..
My system for reference : Apple TV4 (streamer) —needs upgraded— Oppo 205 (DAC-CDP) Denon DP59L (TT) Decware ZP3 (phono pre) Decware CSP3 (preamp-headphone amp) Decware ZMA (35 watt PP amp) Tekton Seas Pendragon (speakers) Tekton Cinema (18” sub) Cullencable loom (silver plated copper)
Klipsch rf7lll's. I've owned many, much higher end speakers, but with McIntosh gear, I absolutely love them. Especially for your room size. Rock and roll!
At new and based on your less than 5k budget I would strongly consider and recommend you listen to Vandersteen. There is a reason the model 2 have been so popular for 40 + years. Maybe they won't fit what you are looking for but ANY recommendation of a reasonably priced "full range" speaker should include the Vandies. If you require more bass you can add subs later. 5k on a full ranger, to 20k no less, won't get you there. More important is what sounds right to your ears, room and works with your music preferences and current electronics. There is no simple right answer. As with all speakers, better electronics will yield better and more satisying results. Vandies are most forgiving but capable of true high fidelity sound that produce music at a very high level the more attention paid to realize their potential.
I have owned Wilson Watt Puppy 6’s for 10 years and which are around £4K preowned and full range.
The power amp amp needs to have excellent dynamics because the ohms can drop from 4 to 2 and even below requiring large reserves of power to be needed quickly.
I have found that a tubed pre into a class A power gives excellent results.
I heard a pair of Salk Song3 Encore's at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest last October and thought they were one of the best speakers at the show. At a cost of $6,000/pair they crushed a pair of $60,000 speakers I listened to. I also met Sim Salk and he is an incredible guy. He told me he sells direct so he can afford to buy some of the best drivers in the industry. He said a lot of speaker manufactures who sell to retailers have to cut their prices and in order for the retailers to make most of the money you have to purchase lower quality drivers and manufacturer lower quality speaker cabinets. He is not willing to sacrifice quality at the customers expense and sit back to allow the retailers to make all of the money.
Lots of great options out there. Thank you for everyone who has been giving valuable input. I will reapond to individual posts when I have more time. For now keep the ideas coming.
The reason the Legacy's would be far better is sheer displacement, the Signature is more electrical efficient, has much deeper bass then the Focals. How many sub $10k loudspeakers are rated to 22hz +/-3db and are 93db efficient?
Most high end loudspeakers that are in this gentleman's price range will not be able to fill up such a large room with sound.
So if you like rock and have a big room you need a speaker capable of playing loud and most loudspeakers from B&W, Kef, Focal, Vandy just won't handle this type of application.
Bill Duddleston designs speakers that play loud and fill up big rooms, he favors displacement, hence his speakers use two large 10inch bass drivers going up to 12 inch drivers in other models.
Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Legacy Audio Dealers
You can get Focals for your price range. Not their top of the line stuff, which is out of reach for most people. ATC seems to be with-in your budget. If I was spending 5k on speakers I would audition them at home. Golden Ear is a close match to your Def Tech's in sound.
A plethora of recommendations, as usual! Let me add another: ATC SCM 40. Should be around 4k; if not, go for a recent pair of used 40 or 50 in your price range. Stunning dynamics, imaging, and detail (not harsh). Need power, but you already have that.
Op if you can go up a tad to $7k you can look at a set of Legacy Audio Signatures.
These should be perfect for you:
1: They are 93db efficient so they will play loud with any amplifier 2: They have bass down to 22hz 3: They throw a huge soundstage 4: They have high power handling. 5: They are easy to drive 6: They have superb top end detail
If you want to fill up a large room these can't be beat
Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Legacy Audio dealers
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