@ghdprentice You’re not trying to be argumentative? I’d like to see what happens when you do try. OP states in the post title for SACD lovers. Yes, it is a free forum, but that doesn’t mean you have to derail it. There is no law preventing me from ringing my neighbors doorbell and telling them how much I hate their landscaping choices, but the general consensus in the neighborhood would be that I would be an ahole for doing so. I generally enjoy your posts, particularly about music, but come on.
I love SACDs, have a DAC and a player that can extract and play the DSD layer in my two channel system, as well as playing them in my multichannel system. It is a rare redbook CD that comes close to them. High Resolution downloads do, however. As for vinyl? I ain’t going there.
Why is it that when someone posts a question here asking about CD or SACD or Blu Ray he gets flooded with posts telling him to listen to lps or buy a streamer, even if they have made it abundantly clear that their interest is in hard disc replay?
@fred60 , I will follow your exploration of Esoteric with interest. Please keep posting
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I went from a OPPO 105 years ago, to one of the very last 205 produced, sold it for more than double the price, bought a Marantz 30n, loved it for awhile, but the disc part wasn't getting much use as I started to stream more. So I sold it and bought a Sony UBP-X1100ES that plays everything, sounds great and frees up lots of money for other streaming stuff.
The funny thing is, since I got the Sony, I tried a few bluray audio disc, and I think they are a bigger improvement over CD than SACD. Too bad they never caught on.
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Op I own Marantz SA10 sacd player, with good balance interconnect like Tyr Nordost this player will compete to less than 10k maybe more.
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Fred,
I am not trying to be argumentative.
It is difficult to seriously discuss what you have said. But, first, a well chosen $50K analog leg will definitely sound way better than your Esoteric K… whatever. Second, by contemporary technology I mean an independent streamer and DAC. Well, that is highly dependent on your choices… but the combo of a transport, streamer, and DAC in a box if for a brief time is a sweet spot,.. it will not last long… or be cost effective when you have to buy music on a physical media.
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fred60
Esoteric vs. PSA/Holo Audio May DAC, either way, you cannot go wrong.
I look forward in reading more about your purchase decision.
Happy Listening!
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ghdprentice
"contemporary technology"? what does that even mean?
I'm talking about using the Esoteric K-05XD (msrp $7500 or 8000) vs. the PS Audio Perfectwave SACD transport (msrp $6500) and the Holo Audio May DAC (msrp $5500) at a total cost of $12K.
There is no way any streamer or "contemporary technology" would equal either of the above choices. I would argue that either choice above would better any turntable/cartridge under $50K. Just like the Esoteric K-03XD.
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I had for a time the Direct Steam Dac and the corresponding Transport. The sound quality combo was pretty good, but the Transport had glitchy problems. Not reading disc, etc.
ozzy
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The OPPO 105 combined with the DBOB digital extractor sounds very good indeed. Light years better than the Oppo by itself.
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@jafant
Thanks. I assure you I made no prognosis of SACD’s capability by using an Oppo. It was never attached to my system. I was very impressed with the capability of SACD twenty years ago with Esoteric and other brands. No question high end players sound fantastic. But today they are such a niche, and you are spending money on the internal Streamer and DAC that could be used for a more contemporary system.
But, as I said. I own an analog end that cost more than a really nice contemporary new car… but for me there is a lot of nostalgia value.
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OP,
Sorry, this is a free forum. So, renegades like me are free to offer their honest opinion, even if off topic or contrary to what the author likes.
A SACD player is a transport, streamer, and DAC in one box. Three functions. As I said… if you love the idea of discs… no problem. I have a turntable. But if sound quality is the only issue… and total cost of ownership… equipment plus content… I would look at contemporary technology.
I do not offer this advise to be argumentative… but helpful. I have often been surprised the horizons opened when a paradigm bubble is popped.
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ghdprentice
I called this post "For SACD Fans Only" for a reason. SACD or CD playback (with the right system) will sound better than any streaming.
And this from a review of the Esoteric K-03XD ($15,000) out of my price range, but not the forthcoming K-05XD:
"Well this is something completely different. I've not had it that long and am still running it through its paces but I'm coming to the conclusion that this outperforms any turntable that I'm familiar with. And this is coming from a true dyed in the wool, buried in the analog camp kind of person. It doesn't sound like a cd/sacd player or like any turntable that I'm familiar with. It sounds like master tape. Pretty convinced now that DSD is the way to go. No streamer i have listened to and I have heard some truly great machines don't sound like this. It has changed my world view about playback systems. The fact that some fifty cent discs from a resale shop can sound phenomenal makes it a game changer. Disc after disc in my collection sound like I never heard them before. I will definitely think twice next time some limited $135.00 plus disc comes out. That's it for now and I will be listening to a bunch of Mofi sacd discs recently purchased of music I already own on Mofi One Step pressings. It should be interesting. One more thing; it deserves an additional star." Score: ******
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ghdprentice
The Oppo 105 is an okay player at best. You were not experiencing the full effect of SACD. It appears that you are content with Streaming and Vinyl.
Happy Listening!
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I would be willing to give the K-05XD a demo because it has full MQA unfolding and it also plays MQA discs.
MQA has improved significantly since they were called out, a year or so ago and 96khz seems to be the limit of what most recordings are truly mastered in.
Example the Steven Wilson Yes and Jethro Tull re-masters.
So if the price is right I'm sure it could be a contender as a full time DAC and occasional disc spinner.
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You like SACDs. Why? They are not old enough to be nostalgic. I researched and researched SACDs… whenever they were a thing and waited just long enough for the market to collapse and CD players jump forward in performance as hiRez file purchase became a thing. Then, after that, streaming took the lead as higher resolution files and sound quality of streaming equaled vinyl or any other format.
So, here we are. If you really like this niche then, great. I have 2,000 pristine vinyl albums and a world class turntable… although collected over the last 50 years. I try and play an album every couple days. I had an Oppo 105… I gave it away… it was from my home theater… I would never had used it in my audio system. If I was upgrading and not expecting to kick the bucket in the next couple years I would not invest in SACD. My streaming sound quality is equal to my vinyl and exceeds my CD player where high Rez files are played. Qubuz has over half a million hiRez albums… less that $14 / month… millions of albums. But if you really like SACD… go for it.
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Another +vote for SACD fans in 2023.
Happy Listening!
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fred60
Thank You for the update. At this level of performance-price, take your time and choose wisely.
Happy Listening!
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FINALLY!! Esoteric just announced that they will be coming out with a K-05XD this Spring. No pricing announced.
Update: I have not upgraded since I posted this over a year ago. PS Audio has not put their Perfectwave SACD transport on sale for $4K recently, still waiting. But $4K for the PS Audio transport (on sale), and $5.5K for the Holo Audio May DAC would put it around $10K. I think that the pricing for the K-05XD might be closer to $7.5K, but I have no idea. If it is $7.5K, then I’ll go with the Esoteric.
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I use my OPPO 105 with the D-BOB and the Benchmark DAC.
Sounds wonderful. |
You can't go wrong with the PS Audio units. I have both the SACD and DAC units connected and with the HDMI interface you will get direct DSD streaming.
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So you can go the Esoteric route, Luxman new player route (05, 07 at some point) or the new PS audio transport and new DAC sometime in the 2nd quarter of 2022. I am in the same boat and will be upgrading from my Modwright Marantz fully modded player. Of course there are many foreign options from China. One thing to think about is what do I do when it breaks. I have started to move away from non U.S. products for that reason. I don't want to spend x number of dollars and find service difficult or impossible. |
I have the OPPO105d with the Modwright modifications. It is great. |
I have the OPPO105d with the Modwright modifications. It is great. |
I highly recommend the PS Audio Perfectwave SACD transport. I dont think there is anything out there that can beat it at its price. |
Streaming is like kiss lady trough glass door 😀 |
@fred60,Just like you, I like SACD/DSD. I think you have made a great choice going with the Esoteric. One piece of information is that the Marantz SA-10 converts everything to DSD internally.Also, ignore posters who say that players/DACs do not make a difference. Your system is highly resolving. So it WILL make a difference. Would like to hear from you once you get the Esoteric.
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@larry5729 because CD’s sound better than streaming. I’ve tried Tidal and Qobuz and easily preferred my CD’s.
I’ve also went as far as to rip my CD’s to my external HD and then copied to my Aurender N100H. Using my Oppo UDP 205 connected to my Bryston BDA-3 as well as the N100H connected to the BDA-3 every CD played sounded better than listening through the N100H.
I also have a PS Audio PST on order. |
fred60
I am looking forward to your Esoteric review.
Happy Listening!
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I'm leaning towards the Esoteric. For a couple of reasons. First, I've read some reviews of the Esoteric K-03XD. Second, it's one box. Read this review of the K-03XD on Music Direct:
Well this is something completely different. I've not had it that long and am still running it through its paces but I'm coming to the conclusion that this outperforms any turntable that I'm familiar with. And this is coming from a true dyed in the wool, buried in the analog camp kind of person. It doesn't sound like a cd/sacd player or like any turntable that I'm familiar with. It sounds like master tape. Pretty convinced now that DSD is the way to go. No streamer i have listened to and I have heard some truly great machines don't sound like this. It has changed my world view about playback systems. The fact that some fifty cent discs from a resale shop can sound phenomenal makes it a game changer. Disc after disc in my collection sound like I never heard them before. I will definitely think twice next time some limited $135.00 plus disc comes out. That's it for now and I will be listening to a bunch of Mofi sacd discs recently purchased of music I already own on Mofi One Step pressings. It should be interesting. One more thing; it deserves an additional star. Score: ******
Pretty amazing review. Of course I will buy the 05-XD or the 07-XD with a 60-day "satisfaction guarantee", so if it doesn't suit my fancy, I can return. And one of them will be half the cost of the 03-XD, which is beyond my budget at $15K.
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Who listens to CD’s these days when you can stream hi-res Tidal?
Well, I do and 1,500 and counting. They sound great if mastered well and I heard streaming my dealer with a hi-end DAC and Streamer and nice but not at all impressed, my CD sounded better and the sales guy said well, it hit and miss at times. I grew up on vinyl like I tell my friends to tell me why I should start buying vinyl to just replace 1,500 CDs I own, same for streaming. I enjoy touching and holding a disc, same as well I had my large vinyl collection. Trends are followed, I guess if I had zip I might look at streaming, but I got more music that I can listen to and many recordings will not be on vinyl or streaming, and what would the cost be to just replace the vinyl with 1,500 LP's, Plus turntable, etc. For me, that be $10-15K. |
@8th note: thanks for the comments. I think that is why PS Audio decided to go with the D&M transport (Denon & Marantz) in the new Perfectwave SACD transport. But you have a point. Esoteric uses what could be considered the best transport available at any price. FWIW I will not buy any transport/player that does not have XLR analog outputs. XLR is clearly superior to RCA's. |
Between going with an Esoteric player and a PS Audio I would lean toward the Esoteric for a couple of reasons not relating to sound quality (I haven't compared them).
I have an original PerfectWave Transport - the earlier version that only plays CDs, not the new one that plays SACDs. PSA's nomenclature is very confusing. Anyway, this was a $4k transport and it is on its third drive mechanism. I play an average of a 5 or 6 CDs a week. The drive in this expensive transport is just a cheapo off-the-shelf computer drive that can be purchased for about $17 retail. To PSA's credit they have been good to deal with on the two replacements (the second one was after the warranty) but they have told me that it will cost $500 to replace the next one. It turns out that I can replace it myself and I have already laid in a drive for the next time it breaks. I have found out that drive reliability has been an issue for this model.
I've had several pieces of PSA gear over the years and always been happy until this. It is really disappointing that they would equip a $4000 transport with the cheapest computer drive they could find. Based on this experience I probably won't buy another PSA component.
To contrast, I have a Marantz SA8005 for SACDs and it has spun way more discs than the PSA and the transport has never had a glitch (I had it for a few years before the PSA).
I believe that Marantz and Esoteric make their own drive mechanisms and they are much higher quality than something that goes into a PC for 20 bucks. For this reason I think an Esoteric will be better built than a PSA transport.
FWIW, I am leaning toward getting a Marantz KI Ruby SACD player which would be the last SACD player I ever buy. I can't complain at all about the sound of my SA8005 but who knows, the Ruby might be just a little bit better. I'm in no hurry to upgrade. |
I would love to own an Esoteric one day, but for now, I really enjoy the performance of my Marantz SA-KI Ruby. |
I've had the McIntosh MCD85 SACD for six months. I know SACD/CDs are not a McIntosh core product, but I've been completely satisfied with the performance, reliability and ease of use.
SACD and CD sound are simply magnificent; the more I play it the better it gets. I also connected my Marantz network player to the MCD85 to use the 32bit DAC, it has never sounded better.
Anyone know where I can get a selection of SACDs? They seem to be a hard to find item. |
Denafrips and PS audio do not have the same I2S pinout.. |
As above, another +vote for a dedicated SACD spinner.
Happy Listening!
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Luxman will be coming out with their 05 and 07 SACD players but I don't know the dates. |
Of the choices you mentioned I'd go with the Esoteric. I recently acquired a (used) Luxman D-06u and it puts my Oppo UDP-205 to shame; a full degree of magnitude better, IMO, and I imagine the equivalent offerings from Esoteric would do the same. |
I have a Denifrips and Topping DACs which I love...but when I try to play SACDs thru my Marantz SACD player ...No sound comes out and I was told that a DAC won't play a Sony licensed SACD.....What's up...You guys all sound like there's a way to play SACDs thru a seperate DAC. |
@tweak1: Thanks-- that looks really interesting, I think that I'll try the Furutech sliver first.
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I bought a 105 new and played it that way for years. It is well know that the 105s biggest issue is/was the power supply. One day while surfing ebay I came across upgrades to the power side. First I did the Furutech- silver wire and a jumper to bypass the 110/220 switch. I was shocked at the level of improvement, so then replaced the OEM power supply with something like this, the product page included excellent DIY photo/instructionss. The combination was about $500 and well worth it to me. Note that I use the XLRs for SACD, and for redbook I have it connected via 1.5m Pangea Premier SE digital coax cable to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5 power supply. IMHO, I would have to spend 2-3Xs more to better it https://www.ebay.com/itm/123213854445?hash=item1cb01e36ed:g:tVUAAOSw7aBVFwZvhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/383918790756?hash=item596357d864:g:upEAAOSwa3BgDr~Xhth |
I have the Oppo 105. I have a lot of SACDs. The biggest improvement was buying the Bryston DAC3, which has HDMI inputs. Program the Oppo to output DSD over HDMI and sit back and enjoy |
Go with the Esoteric- I replaced my Oppo with the Esoteric and it just crushed it in sound quality. |
My concerns with I2S connection (via HDMI) are the pin-outs are not standardized AND I am not clear if it can transmit DSD signals to a I2S input of a DAC. I've inquired with Denafrips' dealer on this very issue and if my memory is correct, he is not aware if PSAudio I2S has worked with DSD to their DACs with I2S. So.... caveat emptor ! |
Hi! I had a similar question and finally I decided on the Esoteric K03XD and I couldn’t be happier.
I was also able to try a master clock and where the improvement was most noticeable were with the SACD disks.
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I bought my first SACD player earlier this summer. It was the Marantz 30N. I really love it and started to build my SACD collection. I also use its built in streamer and internal DAC. Since I recently upgraded my pre/power amps, I also want to upgrade to a separate streamer and a dedicated SACD player.
I already ordered the auralic altair g2.1. Now I am shopping for a SACD player. Following this post
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I replaced my Oppo205 with PSA SACD transport and could not be happier. When pairing with PSA Directstream DAC using I2S connection they are hard to beat. The Mk2 of DS DAC supposedly comes out soon and it should be even better. |
@fred60 No matter what you do, I recommend getting a Sony UBP-X800M2 (or similar) for $250 or thereabouts. This way you have something to fall back on the next you might need it...
Plus, if you buy the Sony first you have something that a high-priced player needs to best or else it goes back to the shop.
I'm not sure your age, but I saw at least one post suggesting you wouldn't be able to hear the difference. I'm 66 and my hearing is nowhere near what it once was. In other words, this Sony's output quality exceeds my hearing capabilities.
Why not try a Sony (or comparable) and buy yourself a piece or two of vintage equipment just for fun. Like a reel to reel? Or a sweet turntable and cartridge? Or that tube preamp you probably want?
Whatever you do, enjoy it!
Regards,
Warren
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I would not pay that kind of money for any of the ones mentioned, that’s insane. Just pick up a nicely used Marantz sa8005. New, it was $1200. Too bad Marantz discontinued it, as now you can't touch a Marantz sacd player for that kind of money... |
You can buy both and compare for 30 days. Why not?
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“For SACD fans only”
Gets multiple replies regarding streaming. Lol. |
