Hi , I’m seeking advice regarding footers and/or platforms under my speakers. I purchased Tekton Double Impact’s and have heavy shag carpet and padding over a cement slab floor. House is 35 years old, cement is thick and well cured. I’m from that old mindset of spikes into cement and I am looking for an improvement. I’ve looked online at Gaia footers and Herbie's Studded Giant Gliders. I emailed Herbie’s and specifically inquired about the studded gliders alone on the DI’s over carpet. I asked about stability and was told the speakers were “ heavy enough “. Unfortunately I just set up the DI’s temporarily to get a little break in time. They are without any footers upright on my carpet. At 115 lbs the speaker does about zero to compress the carpet. I understand weight Vs footprint is abysmal but they won’t even stand straight. I’ll probably put the spikes on for a bit until I formulate a plan. But my first concern is that Herbie’s gliders alone are not enough and due to the minimum cost of the speakers I am struggling with purchasing Gaia’s footers and footer spikes. The seismic stands look exceptional, but I’m trying to be frugal. So I’m looking for suggestions like, gliders or dots with or without spikes on wood / stone plinths spiked to the floor. My goal is to try some sort decoupling (Gliders / Springs / Dots) AND eliminate the need of having to rely on the carpet being compressed. And yes I have cheap speakers and seek a cheap solution, so I get that limitation. Unfortunately I can’t afford Tannoy’s or Fynes to compliment my 180 watt tube mono blocs for at least a year. Cheers , Mike B.
When using Cabinet Speakers there is a lot that can be achieved by setting them up to be at a particular Dimension Spacing Between Speakers, Speaker Toe In and the Vertical Plumb selected for the Front Baffle albeit, set perfect plumb or with a lean towards the Listener or to lean away from the Listener, a 1/2" inch to 1" inch lean can really nail the presentation from the Speaker when the other ideal dimensions for Spacing and the Toe In are discovered for the Room and Listening Position.
The speediest Way to learn about changes without exerting too much energy is to place the Speakers on 4 wheel bogies/skids, this method will create an ’on the fly’ change option where Speaker manoeuvring is speedily executed.
Once it is felt the placement is quite accurate the Speaker Position can be marked on the Floor using a Tape of about 3" Inches thick, the tape is also best if one that can have a demarcation drawn onto it, as small incremental changes to the orientation can be tweaked using the demarcations.
When the Speakers are presenting in a way that is seemingly unable to improved upon, a cheap way to experience a suspended Speaker is to use Inflation Devices similar to those shown in the Link.
For approx’ £20 outlay, each Speaker whilst on the Skid can be gently lifted to take the weight of the Floor. This will supply most of what a purpose made suspension footer will produce.
Additionally it will introduce the Speaker Owner to how lively and precarious a Speaker is when set up as a suspended speaker.
When one is confident all that can be created as a betterment for the Speakers set up in the listening space is achieved, the selection of a Permanent Footer is then the next stage.
I am familiar with AT 616, Gaia and Townshend used under Speakers on Concrete Floors and they are all very very similar in what is the end sound produced.
I have also created a very very similar impression as the suspended method using a Five Tier Support under Speakers, being Cork Pads as the Base Footer(Isolator), a Sub Sub Plinth, Cork Pads as the next Isolator, a Sub Plinth, and then suspension or pad isolation between Sub Plinth and Speaker. The Choice of Suspension Isolation or Pad Isolation for the Top Tier serves more as a tuning method, than a solution.
Sub Plinths can be a variety of materials and need not be expensive, alternating the materials to be the Sub Sub Plinth or Sub Plinth does at times create a change worth producing. A not too compressed Chip Board is one material I always keep available and ready to be used as a Tier.
I think the 2 major factors in deciding whether to use footers or not are of course the type of floor you are on and the speakers themselves. A suspended wood floor would definitely require footers of some type regardless of speaker used. On a concrete floor you won’t get near the vibrations but still may benefit from footers. I think this is where the type of speaker you have comes in. Smaller lighter speakers might still be susceptible to vibrations but a heavier speaker with a very robust cabinet I believe would not realize much benefit. I put a dual indicator on top of my speaker with no sound and the needle didn’t move. I then played music including heavy bass edm and the needle move .006-.008 of an inch. Very little vibration in my opinion. @hilde45
In your test at your friends house what is the jump you are talking about when tapping on one speaker? Was it a jump in sound or did you do a measurement like I did?
Gentlemen thank you for the guidance and please continue. I’m just now stepping out of that old mindset that spikes anchor my speakers firmly to the floor and adding some weight on top makes the cabinet 100% unmovable therefore creating the perfect environment for the drivers to move fore and aft. I’m obviously late to the game , but I hear what you say based on your experiences and the gains you’ve achieved. FWIT about 15 years ago I was on the top floor of the county jail. This building has 5 floors and is the height of a 10 story building. It’s modern and made of steel reinforced concrete. It’s wide , stout and somewhat rectangular. With the inner walls and dividing floors almost like a giant box speaker. It was nighttime and quiet. An earthquake hit and I was sitting on an office chair with wheels. At first I could hear the low frequency rumble then I could feel the entire building sway slowly back and forth. It lasted about 20 seconds and slowly subsided. It then went back to quiet and still with only a light fixture still coming to a stop. Looking back at that from the perspective of this topic gives me a different appreciation of my earthquake experience. Cheers my Peers , Mike B.
@hilde45Thanks , I’m looking forward to visiting. Also on my to do list is visiting the coffee bar “ ESP “ to hear their system. My son booked it for his customer appreciation night 2 years ago. @sls883You have a killer system, congratulations. I hear you on the price. I went CHEAP on my speakers and at $3200 for speakers, the podiums are a lot. I see them at $1800 direct in a listing here on Agon. @willow7, I am definitely considering what you’re saying, that is one of my major considerations in this thread. The “ More Stuff “ link from Hilde is definitely worth reading. As far as the slabs/footers I should obtain some in stone , wood and cement. Then try all 3 spiked and flat without anything under them. I’d need to go about 18”X 24”. That gives me 6 possibilities and then there are a half dozen ways to couple the speaker with the platform. I guess that’s 36 combinations? You guys have already done the leg work and I appreciate your input. The big curve for me is the moisture that wicks out THROUGH my flooring. I have carpet , glue down hardwood, tile and one room with pre LVP on a moisture barrier. I’ve encountered condensation and wetness and mold when I have anything more than a couple square feet that doesn’t breath and traps the escaping moisture. I live in a pretty dry environment but the ground my house is on is clay hard pan and it’s so bad I get effervescence causing minerals and salts to form. I moved my Peleton recently and I pulled back the 6’ equipment mat and you could smell the moisture and feel the dampness. That was the room with the moisture barrier and the LVP floor. Had I not accidentally discovered it , my floor would have been ruined. We’re finalizing a kitchen remodel contract and my wife bought 2 slabs of quartzite. I’m right there with you in regards to having some stone cut. The other thing I’ve considered is making a mold and pouring Quick-Crete slabs and including some type of threaded receptacle for spikes/ footers. Cheers , Mike B.
Had a local shop cut some granite (counter top) into the size/shape desired (slightly oversized) as a base for the speakers and then placed on the floor consisting of thick carpet over concrete. Similar to concrete patio block idea except with some family approved style. A few hundred in cost that worked well for SQ and improved stability - preferred over Gaia.
I read a review of Podiums and they are said to work on all surfaces including carpeting as is, without spikes. I was unable to resist. So I ordered a pair. I've known a number of audiophiles with great systems and for all of them the improvement level put them in the no brainer category. So, not sure why I hadn't got them before.
@buellrider97 Wheatridge has an audio store, Crescendo, which has great stuff! If you visit, please give me a shout. Message me and we'll set up a listening session! I did that with another fellow visiting his kiddo and it was great fun.
I think reaching out directly to Townshend might get you a good price; not sure but they're very responsive.
Also: I totally agree about calculating the weight with stuff on top of the speakers! I love my speaker weights and I actually see them up there (they are barbells) and they have gotten me working out a bit during my listening sessions!
Thank you for the compliments about my system. I'd be nowhere without the help on this forum and via local people.
@hilde45, Greetings and thank you for your input. I’m thinking I’ll need size 3 for the platforms. I saw them on AGON for I think $1700. They look like my top pic so far. I’m feeling confident that I can just run them on my carpet. Also on my spiked ZU’s I ran a 4lb stainless weight at the front edge on top. They are essentially jumbo TT record weights. We’re changing out the nearby 900 sq ft of flooring to glue down oak laminate in about 2 months. The seating area in the room 18’x17’ with the back 10’x18” already wood. Eventually I might go to wood or more likely a thinner dense Berber. FWIT , I’ve always appreciated your input as I’ve watched your system grow. I totally dig your JBL’s and all the effort you’ve put into trying gear and exploring room treatment’s. If I had TMR near by I’d be trying a lot more stuff. Also my kid in Wheat Ridge just put a bid on a second house. I’ll probably be there late fall. I was there last summer but we had a family party there and a wedding in Estes. I was too busy to see any gear. If I see a window when I visit I’d love to meet you. Cheers , Mike B.
@buellrider97 Not sure if Townshend has spikes but I don't have them and I don't need them with my podiums.
There's an interesting theory relevant here called the "Theory of More Stuff"
It basically simplifies vibration isolation abd posits that introducing "stuff" between an audio component and its support surface will always reduce vibration to some degree.
It dismisses two impossible outcomes:
(a) vibration increasing (violating thermodynamic laws) or
(b) remaining exactly the same (unlikely given a change).
Therefore, the only logical outcome is attenuation of vibration.
Various materials and combinations, from spikes and plates to sand and concrete, can achieve attenuation. And more "stuff" often leads to better results – consider, e.g., stacked platforms.
The goal is to optimize this "stuff" for the best results in the simplest way.
Historically, the spring has proven to be the most effective solution. A spring, or any compliant material, acts as a mechanical low-pass filter when paired with an appropriate mass.
The ideal setup aims for a low resonant frequency (around 2Hz horizontally and vertically) and a specific damping ratio (0.16) to effectively isolate audio system vibrations, which typically range from 5Hz to 500Hz. This optimized approach ensures significant vibration reduction.
Thank you to everyone, I have a lot to consider. My carpet is too thick for anything within reason to totality flatten it. Also an afterthought is I’m on a slab on clay with next to zero drainage. My floors wick moisture year round and if an area with any size can’t breath it will mold. So I’ll need a spiked platform or something with a box footer and a couple hundred pounds of weight. I have a pair of 14”x14”X4” Timber Nation spiked platforms that I bought for my Zu Omens. They didn’t provide any improvement because for whatever reason my Omens loved the back loading the carpet provided Vs every size gap I tried. Even Sean from Zu couldn’t suggest a fix. It was one of those times a tweak was a huge negative. Is there a spike available for the Townsend Podiums ? Thanks, Mike.
No matter what you do that 1" of shag carpet and padding is going to impact (sic) stability. How about laying down one or two 24" off-the-shelf concrete patio slabs to act as a base? Then add your springs etc.
I'm using the oem spikes which sit on isolation discs. Basically, two machined discs with carbon ball bearings between them. My floor is carpet on concrete. I would guess that the discs prevent a lot of bass from going into the floor.
In the test we did at my friend's room, his speakers were on carpet on concrete, in the basement. We tapped on one speaker (left) and saw a jump on the right speaker, about 8 feet away. And this was with the Gaia III footers. After the speakers were on the Townshend podiums, we tapped again – and saw nothing. Really amazing to see how much comes across even a concrete floor!
I'm using the oem spikes which sit on isolation discs. Basically, two machined discs with carbon ball bearings between them. My floor is carpet on concrete. I would guess that the discs prevent a lot of bass from going into the floor.
I know there is a fundamental debate between using traditional spikes and advanced isolation platforms like Townshend Podiums. While spikes have long been a common solution, aiming to "couple" the speaker rigidly to the floor, the podiums offer a fundamentally different and I think superior, approach – decoupling.
Why is it superior?
Consider that traditional spikes concentrate the speaker's weight onto small points so that vibrations are drained into the floor, which then acts as an inert mass.
But this coupling is a double-edged sword. It not only transmits speaker vibrations into the floor, potentially exciting it and leading to boomy or muddied bass, but also allows external vibrations from the floor (like footfalls or traffic) to travel back *into* the speaker cabinet. This bidirectional transmission can introduce unwanted resonances, coloration, and a general degradation of sound quality.
Podiums, in contrast decouple the speaker from its environment. They achieve this through a spring-loaded, air-damped system (called "Seismic Load Cells" by Townshend). This acts as a mechanical low-pass filter, effectively isolating the speaker from vibrations down to very low frequencies (below 3Hz). This isolation works BOTH ways: preventing speaker-generated vibrations from affecting the floor and preventing floor-borne vibrations from affecting the speaker.
The other thing I've liked about the podiums is their ability to adjust for height and leveling and the way they can accommodate various speaker sizes and weights, with or without their original spikes.
Isoacoustic GAIA are my choice, but in your situation frankly I don't think they are your best option. Of the suggestions made so far I recommend you carefully consider the link provided by ditusa.
+100 on the Townshend platforms. I have a 30 year audiophile buddy who had the Gaia footers and he did a bunch of A/B with the Townshends and they won the day. I have used the podiums with both floorstanders and bookshelves – under the stands. There is really no doubt that these do a lot for the imaging clarity and soundstage width and depth. Easy company to work with, communication wise.
Although the Iso Accoustic Gaia's are expensive, they are worth it imo. I put a set under my Legacy Audio Signature SE's and the improvement was significant. They are sitting on a hardwood floor over a framed floor on engineered wood joists. So I was getting quite a lot of vibration and standing waves, They are a bit pricey, but very effective on all types of floor construction. And remember if you ever upgrade your speakers you can switch them to the new ones, so it's a long term investment.
Use the spike that came with the speakers and go to IKEA or Any stores that carry bamboo chopping board put it under the speakers. My ps 12 tekton are happy.Teajay used them for his ps12 when we visited Him.
Put the spikes on and put a penny under each one. It should work well enough to get by while you're looking into different options. It will also serve as a reference.when you try new feet/spikes.
+1 on the Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Podium for Speakers. I have them and can verify what is published on their performance and improvement to all SQ attributes is true. Not inexpensive but worth the spend.
I think when you get all the inputs the likely consensus will be: Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Podium for Speakers. By far they are the most highly regarded speaker stands. While I do not have them I know many people that do, and I don't think I have ever heard anyone ever say anything but extraordinary praise. Hmmm, I guess I need to put them on my list. Don't actually know why I don't have them.
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