Fezz vs Raven

Thanks crawfish!  Great info.   

I totally agree with @macg19 : your choice of phono stage should be led by the cart you’re using. That being said, I’ve heard great things about Schitt (in fact, the folks at Raven Audio often recommend them).

FWIW, I used the onboard phono stage in my Technics 1500 SL turntable for the first year of my current setup (with a Nagaoka MP-200 cart) and my Raven Audio Osprey made that system sing! It sounded fantastic. When I upgraded my cart to the Nagaoka MP-500, I wanted a better phono stage (tube based with more gain as the mp-500 has a lower output than the mp-200), so I upgraded to a Quicksilver phono pre amp. Does it sound better? Absolutely. Is it a night and day difference? No. The mp-500 extracts more detail from the grooves and has better channel separation. The QS phono pre creates a thicker sound and much wider/more defined sound stage. But my system sounded great before upgrading.

So, if I were you, I would go with the Raven and Schitt combo for now. Set a baseline/reference point of your system’s sound signature. You’ll get TONS of listening pleasure without breaking the bank and you’ll get to know what you’re looking for in your next upgrade (if you even need one at all). That will give you time to research and save for your next move. Most importantly, if you do finally upgrade either the cart or phono stage or both, you’ll be able to fully EXPERIENCE THE UPGRADE! Skipping straight to "the best" robs you of the journey of hearing your system get better and closer to your optimal sound over time. Just my two cents.

Good luck!

P.S. when we say, "the phono stage needs to match the cart," what we mean is there are several technical considerations that need to be right for your vinyl to sound good: MM vs MC carts are two different paradigms (they require very different gains and you have options for how to achieve the required gain), MM carts are sensitive to capacitance, different carts require different loading (i.e. impedance settings) that your phono pre will have to accommodate, certain carts sound better with a tube-based phono pre, while others prefer SS, etc, etc...

@sandrodg73 *matching the phono stage to the cart, not the amp. A great cart needs a great phono stage to perform well.

Thanks macg19. Can you elaborate more on matching phono stage to amp?

I owned a Raven Osprey but moved to SS due to speaker choice. It is a very well made, sweet sounding amp. In a lot of ways I miss it. If you buy new you really cant go wrong with the 45 day trial - the restocking fee if you change you mind is fair IMO.

I have no experience with Fezz.

The Schitt Skoll is great value and I have had it in my system while my GoldNote was out for warranty replacement, but really the phono stage needs to be matched to the cart not the amp.

Thanks much Everyone for taking the time to respond. I kinda like what I'm hearing about Raven in the last few post.  USA built definitely a plus for more than one reason.  Big question....how important is the phono pre?  If I buy a nice Raven or Fezz, or whatever tube amp and a $300 schitt pre will the $300 pre bring out the magic in my amp of choice or do I need to spend up to match the amp?

I'm currently running a Raven Audio LE Osprey and I absolutely love it. Here is my full review of it (including the A-B test against the McIntosh MA252 Hybrid):

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-of-the-raven-audio-osprey-integrated-tube-amp-and-corvus-referen

Where else are you going to get a super high-end amp that ships with NOS tubes??! 

I'll echo allears4u's endorsment of Raven amps. I owned a Raven Blackhawk for several years and loved it. The personal attention from the owner, Dave Thomson, was remarkable, as well. 

I've owned the Raven Nighthawk for at least 5 years now. As a tube newbie I made every mistake imaginable. Wrong tubes in wrong spot, ran without a speaker connected. put too much nano contact enhancer on everything, This unit is super well built and reliable in the extreme. But more importantly, it punches way above its price point! The sheer humanness and shocking real-ness really grabs your attention. I have Klipsch Lascala II's, my source is primarily an Audiolab CDT6000 transport and a Nuprime SE9 DAC. What's underrated is the personal service the owners invested into my individual issues and questions. AND...the main owner Dave Thomson (Raven Dave) is a "tube guy" that treats your tube choices as a master chef giving you advice how to curate the perfect "flavours" of your amp to synchronize perfectly with your room, equipment , and personal tastes. Amazing Integrated amp and company, cannot recommend too highly!!    

Only thing I can say about Fezz is that during a review in Stereophile of one of their amps, the guy found out that one channel was down about 3dB from the other one. He never figured out why but did the review anyway. This issue was hopefully a "one off" that is not indicative of the general quality Fezz devices have. I'd just want to know return policy and costs up front if necessary for any electronics I buy, just in case. 

A well-designed tube amp has "safety resistors" that will melt long before the tubes redline or "hot plate". Cheaper tube amps might not have this safety feature though.  But "Skunkie Designs Electronics" on YouTube has done tear downs and upgrades of the "cheap" Chinese Willsenton R8 and the Muzishare X7 and they had such resistors in place, although she thought to change the value on one of them for better safety I think. The main thing separating these "cheap" integrated tube amps from the better ones is likely the quality of the transformers. Tube amp circuitry hasn't much changed in 70 years. Of course, anything electrical, even your TV or printer can have an "issue" and burn.

Perhaps not much of a sign Fezz seems pretty new to the market so not many users and Raven is a small boutique shop. The good news is you will hopefully be able to listen to the Fezz amp.

I have owned only the Raven Blackhawk and Osprey and they are well built fine sounding tube integrated amplifiers. Not that familiar with Fezz. 

Thanks all.  I was hoping that someone had 1st hand experience with Raven or Fezz.  Maybe the lack of familiarity with the products by the members here is a sign......

I'd say if you have a good dealer recommending a synergistic pairing go for it, at least stop by Auralhifi and give that combo a listen.

I’ve been using tube amps for 25 years. I’ve never had any fireworks. I’ve lost a couple of output transformers, but that was uneventful. Depending on the circuit design, most tube amps will blow a fuse if a tube runs away. Others, it will take out a resistor, again, uneventful.

Just for a point of reference, I can count off the top of my head, 20 different tube amps I’ve owned. Never had the need to use a fire extinguisher…..

You’re engendering fear that is totally unjustified. I’ve been using tube amps and preamps for 45 years. I’ve repaired and upgraded them. Built a tube amp from scratch. Have read several volumes of tech info on tubes. Yes if there’s a fault in the circuit it can kill a tube particularly a power tube in an amplifier. The affected tube can glow bright cherry red. If you don’t cut the power promptly, the tube will emit a little pop and then die. Fire is a non-issue. The death of the tube acts like a fuse blowing which cuts power across it and terminates the event. The video you referenced does NOT describe an amp catching fire. So give me one concrete example. (Actually any electrical device has the potential to catch fire, so I’m sure it’s very remotely possible but not I know of no instances.)

I'm a very long term user of Audio Equipment with Valve Circuitry, I am giving very valuable guidance.

Out of interest, has anybody checked their Home Insurance in relation to Valve Circuits being used in Audio Equipment used within the home. 

I will check them out. Thank you 

I'd be more inclined to buy more main stream products. Maybe a PrimaLuna with a Music Hall table.

In that case, beware of a lightning strike as well, although that’s more likely than a tube amp actually catching fire.

I'm all in in tubes. Not worried about fires, but I do appreciate a potential safety risk being brought to my attention regardless of how unlikely. 

If a tube glows red, it usually will fail very soon after and go dark, because dead. No fire. Tube glowing red is not any reason to avoid tube amplifiers. I don’t say it’s impossible (Pindac’s reference is to a guy who thought a tube LOOKED like it was on fire, which was NOT the case.), but I’ve never heard of such a thing in my 45 years using tube equipment. Furthermore a tube glowing red is an indicator of a circuit fault (loss of bias supply voltage or an internal grid short), that requires a repair. Tubes per se do not glow bright cherry red unless the circuit mistreats them.

Any suggestions on one

@pindac Bit of a red herring, non? There are thousands of tube amps in use including pro gear that do not go on fire. A solid state class A amp could also burn. 

Separate phono stage all day every day. 

Thanks for the links pindac.  I guess I never thought of tubes as a fire hazard. I'll definitely look more into that. 

Yogiboy, I'm not sure on the phono pre yet. I'm considering getting the NAD M66 or Anthem STR pre.  Both of which are supposed to have good phono stages. Or is a separate better?

What phono preamp will you be using?

The individual who has carried out the testing on the Fezz in the Link, is with a decent reputation for their work done in audio related equipment.

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fezz-audio-titania-test-and-review.405479/

If Tube Amplification/ Tube Devices is a new encounter, there are disciplines worthwhile learning about and adopting when using Tube devices. There are many Tube users, inclusive of myself, that strongly suggest a different approach to using SS devices, is to be practiced when using Tube devices.

Tubes can become extremely hot (Red Tube) when a fault has manifested, which if not intercepted and Powered Off, can become a fire!!  

The Link is showing a individuals experience, there are many experiences to be found, in this case the individual has had their eyes on the Tubes, and got lucky to to their intervention.   

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tube-fire-what-next?highlight=Tube%2BFire 

I'd avoid the Blackhawk as there was some controversy about its build quality and design origins a few years ago.