Ethernet Wiring

Why not use mesh network such as google or eero? Is there evidence that a hard wired long run connection sounds better than a short run of better quality Ethernet cable from a mesh node? Just curious…I’ve been running Eero for few years now but never tried a hard wired long run. In my mind it makes no sense over the mesh network if you can isolate the mesh node far away from components to not be an impact from RFI and EMI perspective. 

Use CAT6a. You’ll have no issues. 
30’ of 6a is less than fifty bucks from BlueJean

It is not recommended for a few reasons.  The sharp edges inside the ducts can damage the wiring over time due to vibrations or expansion and contraction due to temperature changes.  In addition, there maybe signal interference due to static charges building up from the air flow. 

In addition, it may also be in violation of local, state, or federal building codes.  And keep in mind, for safety concerns, it is generally required that the wiring is plenum rated when run inside of a HVAC system.

It should be fine, and the duct might provide shielding. 😀 That said, I have switched to using a TP-Link extender with a Stack Audio Smoothlan inserted before my Innuos streamer. This actually sounds better than the 30’ Blue Jeans cable, in my system.

It can be installed in the air return ducting. You will need to use plenum fire rated jacketed cable though.

Other options for running the cable?  Is the floor in the room  pad and carpeted? It is possible the cable could be installed around the wall base trim under the carpet. Between the carpet tack strip and the wall base trim. 

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Clever!

Single family residence, no fire walls involved, as long as you are not passing thru any fire damper, preventing it from closing .... easy enough to seal with this stuff

https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Gardner-Bender-1-lb-Plug-Duct-Seal-Compound-DS-110/100212441?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D27E-027_011_TOOLS_ACC-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-NA_Priority2024Ended&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D27E-027_011_TOOLS_ACC-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-NA_Priority2024Ended-21843354617--&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21843375815&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UeTNi23JBEM6IvS-SrR3pVC1&gclid=CjwKCAjwo4rCBhAbEiwAxhJlCaS4hL0IwUjHk7XTJFlSfB4xtuK0m54N8twzGgsU3O8RnOZ3_NHkwBoC78gQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I made beads of this sealant to seal my woofers in my restored AR-2ax speakers.

Technically, this would meet building code.

3M Fire Barrier 1.45 in. x 6 in. Moldable Putty Stix MP+ Flexible 76

Use Cat 6 Plenum rated wire and you'll have no problems. I used a hardwire backhaul for my mesh routers and have no issues.

Invest in a good punch down tool for the terminations and keep them neat and clean. Get or make a holder for the jacks & plugs when doing the terminations, it makes life much easier. No magic, just good workmanship. 

@elliottbnewcombjr recco for sealing the penetrations is solid. 

Avoid repeaters - by their very nature they halve the available bandwidth. Use mesh routers instead.

Worries about about static or thermal concerns are unfounded. Of course I only have 40 years experience with Ethernet cabling - Coax, Cat 5, Cat 6 in homes, offices, schools, and enterprise-class data centers, so what would i know? 

Interesting...

CAT5,  4 pair UTP Ethernet cable was first introduced in 1995.

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  CAT3,  4 pair UTP Ethernet cable was first introduced in 1991. Good for voice, not so much for data though, as I recall. 

Installed miles of RG62/U coax cable in the 1980s for desk top dumb terminals. 

Also installed some RG58 coax cabling in the 1980s.

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@lovehifi22 ,

Project status?   

The cable would be inserted into the duct about 15’ away from the furnace plenum.

I assume a straight shot through a 6" dia round supply duct to a ceiling mounted outlet vent register? (Naturally the ceiling register would be remove when installing a fish tape to pull in the data cable.)

Good luck if you first have to travel through a main supply duct to the tap off for the 6" dia round branch duct that feeds the ceiling register.

FWIW, I would recommend you purchase the data cable from Blue Jeans Cable. They will make you a cable cut to length and install RJ45 plugs on each end of the cable. Cable will then be tested to make sure it meets specs standards. Not just a wire mapping test.

Protect both connectors so they are not damaged during installation. 

I’m retired now but at my last work place they ran cat 5 through the building ducts and it was a huge improvement over the previously horrible WiFi that we had.  There were no issues over the year and a half of use before my retirement.  I chatted with installer who said that they do this all the time.  He said that he had never encountered an issue with warping due to HVAC, which was the first question that I asked.

  Ethernet cable is inexpensive.  Even if something did warp after years of use, replacing it should not be to painful 

Thanks to all for your helpful comments and suggestions. 
Greatly appreciated. 

@zlone

Is it possible that the TP-Link extender is introducing noise into your electrical power?  Similar to what dimmers do in home wiring?

Are you using any power conditioners?

@boulder_bob I have no doubts that the TP-Link is probably a bit noisy, but my house likely has several other devices that are just as bad. I spent last year working on my power and tried Furman, Puritan, but then settled on a PS Audio P15 regenerator. That pretty much fixed everything, Sunday night sound all the time now. 

I suspect the vast majority of audiophiles have a second rate setup for their streaming network. Modems and routers should be located near audio system, both should be powered via lps, short runs high quality LAN/ethernet cables. For those who've experienced the benefits of network improvements for streaming sound quality the above will further improve SQ. 

Beyond this, disable wifi on this router, run LAN cable from this router to second router which will serve as whole house router with wifi enabled. 

I see audiophiles spend large sums on things like network filters, audiophile switches while they completely ignore noisiest components in network chain. Seems to me having a clean source is superior to cleaning up a dirty source. Craziest thing is doing the above costs little compared to what some spend on some of these network devices. And I do have experience with audiophile switches/filters, not totally dismissing them.

@sns Most excellent write up and very true!

sns

... Modems and routers should be located near audio system ...

I've had the best results by keeping these items far from my system, and using ethernet from there to the streamer, which is in my audio rack.

... audiophiles spend large sums on things like network filters, audiophile switches while they completely ignore noisiest components in network chain ...

That's the best reason to keep them as physically separated as possible from the rest of the system, imo.

As jeff said, you dont want to run cat 5/6 through ductwork unless youhave a small add-on duct running along side it to a) shield the cable from temperature extremes b)  avoid cutting the cable itself. The maximum  cable runs for cat 5 or 6 is 328 meters.  So you are safe with the distance you are wanting to run.

@cleeds Curious why would you think this? 

Properly designed AP filters and switchers, IE. Sonore Optical Module Deluxe, UTA EtherREGEN, Edisoncreation Silent Switch, Sotm, Network Aucoustics ect all are shielded to reduce EMI and RF emissions. I have also used additional shielding internally to my Zenith using Faraday tape.  

That’s the best reason to keep them as physically separated as possible from the rest of the system, imo.

@jcipale  -  

The maximum  cable runs for cat 5 or 6 is 328 meters.

Slight correction... it is 100 meters or 328 feet.

Also, I had a friend check on the residential building codes in Wisconson. Plenum rated cable is required by National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) 262 unless it is run in a sealed metal conduit or metal sheathed (i.e. flexable) covers.  This is a safety requirement and if there was a fire, could void your homeowners insurance policy.

Just to add to the discussion, Below is something I posted in another tread that I think also applies here.

To comment on a "Clean Network"...

@sns - As you said, the WiFi signal is very noisy.  What everyone forgets is that WiFi is a radio signal.  So is the celluar signal your cell phone uses.  And if your equipment, and not just your streamer, is not shielded properly, it will affect the circuitry.  Will that affect sound quality, yep.  At my previous residence I had to change out my interconnects between the turntable and phono pre to shielded cables because I was able to pick up the local 1st responder radio dispatches in the background.  

Just think... hearing Led Zeppelin go "Hey-hey momma, said the way you move...STATION 9 RESCUE 1 POTENTIAL HEART ATTACK AT xxx street..." 

But there is more to the "clean network" in any building.  I have "helped" many friends work on their home networks.  And most of the time it is just correcting mistakes, not spending money on upgrades.  There are so many simple things to improve network performance that people can do without spending much money. 

Off the top of my head:

• Put your modem, network switches and routers on a UPS (APC, TrippLite, etc.) They typically have decent surge protection and better than average filtering, and will help fill in the momentary flickers in AC. 
• Most wallwart power supplies on modems, routers and combos are very under powered.  Upgrade it to something that has the available reserves to handle heavier current draw. While something like a sBooster linear supply will work, even a larger (i.e. higher current, regulated switching supply will be an improvement.
• Don't run ethernet cable along or parallel to electical cable.  If you have to cross an electrical cable, try to cross at a 90 degree angle.  This will reduce inductive noise from the electrical circuit.
• Don't run ethernet cable longer than 100 meters between two devices. That includes all the ups, downs, left/rights, etc.  This is the TIA/EIA standard.  Cat 5e, unshielded twisted pair, solid wire should be the minimum wire type.  Cat 6 is better.  Above that, starting Cat 7, will support 10 Gbs rates, is usually overkill, especially considering that everything else on a home network is usually topping out at 1Gbs.  
• If you have to go above 100 meters, then you need to switch to fiber optic cable.  Setting that up is a subject in it's own.
• When running ethernet cable, don't kink or bend the cable.  I've seen so many cables bent 90 degrees at the RJ-45 jack, which turned out to be the data problem.  My rule of thumb was to try and not have a bend radius of less than 4 or 5 inches.
• Don't use those little female to female jumper plugs to extend an ethernet cable.  They are junk and usually will eventually cause problems.
• Keep the contacts clean.  Most cables and switches use brass as the contacts in the jacks.  They will corrode over time.  A pencil eraser or 1500 grit sandpaper works well to clean them.  Some of the "audiophile" cables use gold plated contacts which is a plus.
• If you need an additional switch(s), get decent quality.  At a minimum, get a known brand, middle of their product lines, look for a full metal housing, and a decent sized power supply.  (Netgear, DLink, Linksys are some examples)  If it has POE ports, that can be a good indicator that the power supply is not a bare minimum size.  Avoid the cheap plastic no names like you find on Amazon or EBay.
• A lot of routers have a built in switch on them.  Even if you already have a switch in your network, try and run the ethernet cable from the streamer directly to the router.  The fewer hops to the modem, the better.

One thing I have always wondered that when someone goes and buys a $1000 audiophile switch and replaces all their ethernet cabling with CAT 7 or CAT 8 cable and hears "ground breaking" improvements, is a large portion of the improvement coming not from the new equipment, but rather they fixed the bad implementation of the original setup.  Hard to say....

...my 10 cents (since the tariff on the EU went back to 50%)... lol

-Jeff

foggyus91

Curious why would you think this? 

As I explained: "I’ve had the best results by keeping these items far from my system ..." 

Properly designed AP filters and switchers ... all are shielded to reduce EMI and RF emissions.

Yes, of course.

@cleeds The physical distance between the modem/router and streamer is of little or no consequence. The only possible issue would be if wifi enabled, emi-rfi can contaminate nearby components, since wifi disabled no issue. @foggyus91 explains why quality audiophile equipment would be less impacted by close proximity, still, remember we are disabling wifi which makes the issue moot.

If you're worried about internally generated noise migrating via LAN cables, shorter is always better, longer LAN cable lengths don't magically drain noise away.. Another added bonus of shorter lengths is less financial expenditure. 

Bottom line, modems and routers with wifi disabled, sitting in close proximity to any or all other streaming components will not contaminate those components in any way. The benefits were obvious in my setup. 

As @jeffbij points out, this setup provides both a 'dirty' and 'clean' home network, all streaming components go on clean side. For a more in depth explanation of a 'clean' or audio home network people should check out the Dejitter IT Switch X, this is a highly modified Mikrotik managed switch, replaces router altogether, I suspect we'll be seeing more of managed switches replacing routers in the future. These noisy routers, even with wifi disabled don't belong in really high end streaming setups.

FWIW:

NEC (National Electrical Code) 300.22(B) does not allow an Ethernet cable to be installed in HVAC supply air fabricated duct work for the use as a raceway.

Even the exception doesn’t allow its’ use as a raceway.  

300.22(B) Ducts Specifically Fabricated for Environmental Air.

Exception: Wiring methods and cabling systems, listed for use in other spaces used for environmental air (plenums), shall be permitted to be installed in ducts specifically fabricated for environmental air-handling purposes under the following conditions:

(1) The wiring methods or cabling systems shall be permitted only if necessary to connect to equipment or devices associated with the direct action upon or sensing of the contained air, and

(2) The total length of such wiring methods or cabling systems shall not exceed 1.2 m (4 ft).

https://www.electricallicenserenewal.com/Electrical-Continuing-Education-Courses/NEC-Content.php?sectionID=276

NEC does allow Ethernet cables to be installed in air return plenums provided the cabling is UL Listed plenum rated. (Or, NRTL Listed meeting UL)

FWIW, If the OP does install the Ethernet cable in the supply duct work he should install an insulated  grommet or bushing in the cut entry hole in the metal ductwork to protect the outer jacket, and internal insulated conductors from being cut, damaged, by the supply air movement through the duct chaffing the cable at the sharp cut entry hole of the metal duct work. 

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sns

The physical distance between the modem/router and streamer is of little or no consequence ...

My audio system works best with the modem and router located away from the system and connected to the streamer via ethernet. The streamer sits in my audio system rack.

... If you’re worried about internally generated noise migrating via LAN cables ...

No, I’m not worried about that at all.

... modems and routers with wifi disabled, sitting in close proximity to any or all other streaming components will not contaminate those components in any way.

You may be correct. But of course my system includes other components, too.

@cleeds If any of those other components require wifi I'd rather not have them in my audio system. I run my home theater and every single wifi device in house off 'dirty' side of local network. 

Clocking/timing/synchronization also important for optimal networking, taking output directly from router into streamer not good idea, this where LAN filters, switches, reclocking devices should be placed. 

And the above brings me back to the idea of implementing an audiophile managed switch. One can eliminate noisy router,  filtering/isolation and reclocking all taken care of in one device, no need for all these add on devices/complications.

The single most important thing to remain mindful of,  baseline noise floor is set by the noisiest component in streaming chain, for most that will be the router. Implementing all the finest network components downstream of noisy router is rather futile as router remains the bottleneck. 

Also, don't forget a wifi enabled router not only contaminates nearby components with EMI-RFI but is greatly contaminating itself, max isolation of other components/parts within router is of very little concern to these manufacturers. 

sns

If any of those other components require wifi I'd rather not have them in my audio system ...

My audio system relies on wired ethernet. I don't use wifi for audio other than to control the streamer.

Clocking/timing/synchronization also important for optimal networking ...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident."

... don't forget a wifi enabled router not only contaminates nearby components ...

I don't use a wifi router.

@cleeds All remarks not directed specifically to you. 

Just curious, you state you have modem and router, so how do you provide wifi? While you may not be using wifi with any audio streaming components it still affects your network. I also use only LAN connections with audio streaming components, and have been for well over a decade, disabling wifi and providing 'clean' side home network was beneficial. 

ARHG! 

Everyone needs to stop being an Audiophile with networks. Analog signal is far different over digital packets. The same rules do not apply! Noise is not part of ethernet, noise is not part of WiFi packet transfer. Yes, the radios are noise, but it is not part of the packet transfer, and in fact, it is air-gaped to the receiver. 

You will NOT get any degradation in packets in runs under 200ft. NONE! 

It is perfectly safe to run cat6 inside ducting. In-wall or outside cable would be "best" but not required. Use rubber grommets on the ducts, to run the cable through. 

"clocking" for ethernet? NOPE, not a thing, there are no high end clocks in any enterprise networking gear. It is NOT the same as from the streamer to the DAC. 

Having built in WiFi into your modem is not a bad thing, it will not put "noise" on your precious streamer packets. 

If you are so worried about WiFi noise on your stereo, put it in a  Faraday cage, even if you do not have WiFi in your home, it's still there, unless you live over a 1/2 mile to your closest neighbor. A microwave, puts out more radio noise over almost anything else in the house, as does your cel phone, and tablet. 

Wired ethernet is almost better, be it fiber or copper. Fiber is the only transmission method that doesn't care about any kind of interference, or distance.

Almost all home mesh networks are garbage, talk about noise, lost packets, jitter, bad handoff, etc.. Run cable to a couple base stations, so much faster, and more reliable. 

sns

... you have modem and router, so how do you provide wifi?

It's a separate wifi router for use around the house. 

@mswale Said:

It is perfectly safe to run cat6 inside ducting.

In your opinion...

It’s not NEC code compliant in HVAC supply air ducts. 

06-11-2025 at 07:11am

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I’m late to this discussion.  

Yeah, running Ethernet in a duct is probably not a great idea.  

My biggest issue is that when you have long runs of Ethernet they can inductively pick up a lightning surge.  I recommend the use of medical grade (UL 60-601) Ethernet isolators at the far end of the Ethernet.  The Everrstar is the cheapest I know of, followed by TripLite at over $200. 

Some of the best money I've ever spent on my system was to pay pros to install both ethernet cabling for streaming and before that coax for my FM antennas and cable TV. It's amazing what these guys can do and you're left with a neat, invisible install. There's no cabling in any of my duct work, although in places ethernet runs right next to it, affixed to the duct with little plastic clamps. 

For various reasons, I don't use any equipment provided by my cable co/ISP. I choose my own equipment and contractors. (The sole exception is the little decoder box needed to receive local TV.)

For my system, nothing has bettered this wired network. It's been absolutely stable. No hiccups. Sounds great. No heroic measures required.

I stay away from long ethernet cable runs, longest is 1.5m. By having ISP modem located in listening room, no muss no fuss install, all cable runs short and sweet. Don't care about the long run of ethernet for the whole house router.