Ebay selling my missing amplifier

The items were insured. The UPs claims are unresolved. Meaning no money was reimbursed to either of us. Thought that was a given.  The point of the post is about Ebay selling missing/ stolen goods.  

@snook2 

The UPs claims are unresolved. Meaning no money was reimbursed to either of us. Thought that was a given.

I agree with you, it was a given.  Not sure why anyone would have thought otherwise.

Now that we have some data, you should have your attorney contact the appropriate people at UPS. It isnt your responsibility to track down/retrieve the goods. Since you have an open claim, you only need to prove that they most likely sold your goods to the third party. Threaten to file suit in your home venue for the full amount asserting theft by UPS. At what amount did your insure? 8 months is along time for an open claim. You are more patient than I.

Sheesh, why are so many audiophiliacs such low life's? People stay out of trouble by minding their own business,

@wesheadley 

It is extremely rare for FedEx or UPS to lose a shipment like this -- especially if was insured.

@ghasley 

here’s the way it works. If you ship something and say have $1,000 insurance from Fedex and then they lose it, they pay off. 

Total BS. No it is not, and no they do not.

No they don't. I shipped a speaker by FedEx and it disappeared. They contract third party companies to make deliveries and the only "proof of delivery" is a piece of paper that says Delivered. No accountability, no investigation, no payout. 

The paper said Delivered. End of claim. 

eBay has a security department that can be reached by the sitemap. In the past, at least, they have had attorneys, former prosecutors with experience, on staff. You would need at least the listing number of the article you believe to have been your stolen property and probably any identifying information to verify your claim: insurance claim information, police report and any documents pertaining to the item in question (warranty papers, original boxes with serial numbers, etc.) If you were paid for your losses, your insurance carrier may have an interest, if you suffered partial loss (insurance deductible, e.g.) you obviously have an interest as well.  If you know where the article is being sold from and are able to contact local authorities there, that may be another option.

Not so I retired from U.P.S. High value shipments usually over 5000 are put into cages, and must be signed and scanned.  The driver or loader puts it on the plane, truck or trailer, and it is scanned again .They can locate a package by the last employe that scanned it. They know at all times where the packages in there custody are. You can't just pick it up and throw them in your trunk. It gets traced to you the minute it goes lost. Even non insured packages are scanned at every destination. They get scanned as they go around the belts inside the U.P.S complexes BIG BROTHER IS NO JOKE. They will talk to you if things get lost. And Fedex is no different as they copy from us.

@macg19 -- Wrong. You have no idea how high value packages are handled by major shippers.

BTW, I had a total of one package "go missing" while it was in the UPS system. It was insured. They could not prove delivery (and their software knows where every package is during transit). They paid my claim.

Much later I was informed that it was found in a UPS substation where it had been set aside for reasons unknown. It had been sitting there for months, unnoticed.

I have no idea how high value packages are shipped? Wrong again @wesheadley 

I'm an executive at a medical device company. We ship large, very expensive devices across the US and around the world every day.

Things get lost, damaged during shipping, scheduled pick ups for RMAs don't happen, and getting paid on an insurance claim is nearly impossible and requires a ridiculous amount of time and resources. 

Buying insurance often just means they'll look harder for your missing package.

You were lucky with your one experience with a UPS claim.

I also have one personal experience with a UPS claim for damage in transit, and they refused to pay it even with extensive photo documentation. 

@macg19 -- You’ve changed the subject. The OP was about a LOST package and NOT a damaged one.

Damage claims are a totally different animal -- not even remotely the same as UPS losing a package during transit. Damage claims are notoriously difficult to get compensated for as they will almost always try to blame the shipper for inadequate packaging.

To equate the two different types of claims is to confuse the subject of the OP. His item was lost, not damaged, and my comments spoke specifically to that situation.

@wesheadley I did not change the subject.

Things get lost, damaged during shipping, scheduled pick ups for RMAs don't happen, and getting paid on an insurance claim is nearly impossible and requires a ridiculous amount of time and resources. 

The singular example about a damaged item was my one and only personal example of being screwed by UPS.

Dozens of business examples. And all of our packaging has been drop tested by FedEx and they still make it difficult regardless of loss or damage.

In my case, the item was shipped in a custom wooden crate (real, solid wood, not fiber or particle board). Entire packing process and the pick up of the pristine crate was documented with video. The lid was screwed in by 8 long screws, and they still managed to destroy it. 

The point is that major shippers do everything they possible can to avoid paying all claims. Also, in the case of UPS, claims are administered by a separate company, which operates on a for-profit basis.

Because that is really none of your business.

I guess I'm the only person to NOT have had a bad experience? I have had a couple of lost items and they were expeditiously paid. I had a pair of speakers I shipped with a $10k value (unbeknownst to me at $5k each). One speaker arrived perfectly, one was demolished. At first they tried to pay off just $5k. I then had my dealer write a letter that the speakers were a pair and matching the veneer and electronics would be expensive. They paid the full claim. I have multiple excellent experiences, others claim to have none. Oh well.

FedEx and UPS don't operate the same way. UPS has its employees handling your package from beginning to end. FedEx contracts with 3rd party companies for local delivery. Those employees are directly responsible to their company, not FedEx. They just show FedEx a paper receipt saying something was delivered, especially in rural areas.

But FedEx has no direct way to interact with the delivery driver to trace your package. If the driver says they delivered it, end of story. You have to deal with the person you sent it to. 

@macg19 -- You’ll get no argument from me about the tender mercies of huge corporations.

My only point is that, when a shipper takes custody of your package, if it disappears anywhere between points A and B, they cannot simply throw up their hands and say "whoops".

If the item is valuable you’re warned to fully insure it or they can settle with you based upon the meager valuations they insure packages for.

If Snook has insured the package, and it went missing before being delivered, they are on the hook for the insured value. I don’t believe for a second that something this valuable will go without the claim being paid. If that is the case, then I believe that key details of the story still remain a mystery. For whatever reason.

BTW Ebay isn't selling your amp, someone with an Ebay account is selling it

I received a response from Ebay store cargolargo yesterday finally. They will open an investigation and will pull the ads down. The ads were pulled a few days before so something caught their attention. I noticed all (authentic) Dartzeel items were pulled. Amazing how much chinese counterfeit electronics use the Dartzeel name .  CargoLargo told there are a dozen reasons why its there and they only deal with unclaimed freight. It came from a Freight carrier however they don't have the documentation at this time from which one. I will wait to see if this amounts to anything. So, they have it, they know I am the owner and should send it back right?  

Nothing that they said to you, at least how you laid it, out makes sense, or is otherwise suspect. "Will pull the ads down". " ads were pulled down a few days ago". It’s one or the other. " Dozen reasons why it’s there" What are they wouldseemlikeit shouldonly be one? "Came from a freight carrier however they don’t have the documentation at this time" Seriously, you’re buying that?

@facten since he is never telling us the whole story, it's hard to follow. I have been sufficiently confused since the beginning.

Reading the OP's comments is like boarding a train with square wheels...

@snook2 - I feel like this is a mystery that should not be a mystery at all. "Paperwork" is a pseudonym for a record that is stored in and and immediately accessible by computer. Snook2, are you original owner of this amp? If not, did you buy it from an individual or a business? I ask because if this was a straightforward purchase then you can prove title easily, and it they have that amp with matching serial number, then you can recover it straightaway. Did you insure it? If so, for how much? Did they pay any claim that you filed yet? If yes, game likely over, if no, then it sounds like you’ll get your amp back or you can file a suit that you would win if this was a simple verifiable purchase, plus your attorney fees too. A no-brainer for something this costly -- unless, perhaps, your amp is somehow, and very unlikely, itself counterfeit.

This is one of the most confusing and puzzling posts I've ever followed on Audiogon.  

Given how expensive that Dartzeel is and having after 8 months gotten nowhere compensation wise, it makes sense to buy a $400 plane ticket to Missouri, meet up with one of the local constabulary, and with proof of ownership with you pay Cargo Largo a visit and personally take it back. And no, eBay isn’t selling your gear. Someone is using eBay as a medium to sell your gear. You sure are matter of fact about this whole ordeal. You must have a ton more money than me, because I'd be flippin' out and doing everything I could.

Perhaps someone high jacked your photos and the listing is a scam?

Hijacked what photos??

Sending a Dartzeel nhb 108 in for upgrades after 8 months of ownership? 
 

A Hafler being sent in to Musical Concepts for upgrades is a plausible story. 
 

However, a Dartzeel…..

C’mon man….

There seems to be a lot of hate for the OP here.  Not sure why the victim is being blamed.

  Regarding shipping companies-I am a Primary Care Physician.  I have had several FedEx, UPS, DHS drivers as patients.  Many of them are so drug addled that you wonder how they can make it out of the parking lots.  I saw one of my patients making a delivery at the clinic.  He was throwing boxes that clearly marked fragile like rag dolls in the truck.  I had just a few months previously had a turntable destroyed by UPS so I was watching him for several minutes, horrified.  When I saw him in the office a few days later and mentioned this he was dismissive”It’s all insured, man”.  I stopped trading in audio right then and there except for local pick ups

@wturkey, 

He didn't own it for 8 months, he sent it in 8 months ago.

Re-read the initial OP. Your confusing an already confusing thread.

"There seems to be a lot of hate for the OP here.  Not sure why the victim is being blamed."

A lot of 'hate'?? I see none of that. Don't see any victim blaming either. What I see is a lot of unanswered questions and confusion trying to get some straight answers.

@thecarpathian

Right you are. I stand corrected. 
 

Thank you for stepping in and sorting this thread out. 
 

“Tammy” could really learn a thing or two from this fella on how to moderate a thread. 

Back to shipping most packages get lost for two reasons. One, the package gets damaged. But mostly because the label gets ripped off or damaged and they can’t find a return or delivery address. Always include a second copy of your return address and where it’s going to, inside box or package. When lost or damaged the package goes to a clerk who’s job it is to find the original shipper or it’s destination. Without something to work with a telephone # name or address they go into limbo. labels that are held on by tape get caught on the belts or other packages and get pulled off. Always put a second shipping label in the box, this usually solves the problem. U.P.S. retired

We are all apparently finding something of interest in this thread. Some are interested in how lost package claims are handled and some are interested in how rough package handlers are (My local UPS guys knows me well and we usually chat a bit - he does not seem to be as beholden to the clock as he is expected to be. But he handles my stuff with care).

I am particularly interested myself in how one might resolve the discovery of a stolen item on eBay and how this will work out. I have looked before for items stolen from my family (ancient guns, and swords from the Genghis Khan era) and never found them but I would sure like to know I would have a fighting chance to get them back.

For our stolen things we got insurance payments - I assume we would have to return that money, although it was quite inadequate.

I sure hope we do get an update on how the OP, the KCPD, and eBay work things out.

Here’s my advice. Remove ALL reference to the make model and eBay listing. You should really consider removing this post entirely. If the seller gets wind of it poof. If it left your state, you should have contacted the FBI. This is a major grand larceny offense. Here’s the other issue, how did the seller  take ownership?  If so, who actually stole it?  This person may have purchased it not knowing the unit was stolen. The FBI or police will need to get to the bottom of it. Lastly, next time you think of sending such an expensive item overseas or even within the US, do NOT send it by UPS or FedEx. At minimum, use DHL or a proper international freight company and through a freight forwarder. I can’t believe UPS insures items that cost $50k. Best of luck and eBay is not that difficult to reach by phone. I’ve dealt with them but long ago. Amazon the same.

@dobnbav - What makes you think the FBI would be remotely interested in this ? A $50K amp is not grand larceny in their world. Unless they were presented with evidence of a criminal ring moving high volumes of allegedly stolen goods across state lines ;  some big dollar wire transfer crime, etc. they have better things to do. Having had experience working fraud cases impacting a Fortune 100 company you really have to have something that wets their appetite, and is fully laid out with documentation and evidence for them to even sit down to listen about it.

@facten, I must say that is the most idiotic, defeatist bs response and false! If the product crossed state lines it is an FBI, Federal Bureau of Investigation case. State and local authorities have no jurisdiction in other states. Your fraud experience is irrelevant here and evidently the wronged should do nothing. It’s a legal issue and you think $50k into worth anyone’s time? And how do you know or not if this heist was an individual or one  working within a criminal conspiracy. Brainiac, this wasn’t fraud! There are separate groups within the FBI just like within the NY or LA PDs.  They don’t cherry pick. If there’s evidence—in thhis case a $50j event where the potential whereabouts is know, what do you think they might do? Maybe there’s a large organization  located there with assorted high worth items!’ Really, I guess you know everything. News flash, you do not! Plus it helps to be persistent. I love one size fits all know-it-alll dudes. Original poster. Be aggressive, demanding, unwilling to not take no for an answer. As they say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. You may recover your equipment or you may not but at least you have tried! Just whatever you do please don’t listen to this dude. I’ve had people tracked down , arrested and sent to prison three times where I was a crime victim, one a violent one.

@dobnbav - The only thing idiotic is you thinking that the FBI has nothing better to do than assign an agent to find someone’s amplifier. Have you actually sat down with FBI agents? I have. How about a US Attorney? I have.  I had 2 retired FBI agents in our corporate security department reporting to me for 9 years.  Have you worked directly with any?  Whether you think otherwise or not they are not going to get involved in a situation like this unless it is far more consequential in the aggregate.. And ,for something like this you’re going to have to provide them with evidence that it is more than an isolated instance to get them maybe interested. So unless you've had direct experience dealing with them I'd suggest that you keep your comments to yourself

One more time:

eBay is not going to help you - directly. 

MAKE A POLICE REPORT WITH ALL THE DETAIS; DOCUMENTATION, SERIAL NUMBER, PHOTOS, SCREEN SHOT OF YOU EBAY AD.

Then have then contact eBay and follow through through: 
https://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/law_enforcement_customers.html

This is the only hope you have of recovering your amp or being reimbursed for its value.

There is no harm in reporting this to federal authorities, but I wouldn’t count on A lot of help as a result. United States attorneys offices, generally have a threshold amount of loss in a Matter like this before they will open and prosecute a case. That threshold amount will typically vary with larger offices requiring a greater loss. For most, that number is going to be above $50,000. 

this is not conjecture as I was in the justice department for several years. With that said, it may be worth reporting because there’s always the possibility that this case could be linked to others of a similar nature that might create some interest. Reporting it to the state authorities where the component is currently located might be more likely to get investigative action as knowingly possessing stolen property will be a state crime in all 50 of them
 

good luck

Who have you contacted at eBay? You should contact the fraud prevention office there. Also, is your article listed in the North American eBay or in one of their other national auction sites. The appropriate fraud prevention office might be through that subsidiary's sitemap.

Do you have documentation? (Warranty registration, purchase receipt, photos of the gear before you sent it off, mail/parcel service receipts and insurance papers, loss claims, correspondence with the repair facility, documentation of their receipt of the amplifier, invoices/estimates for repair acknowledging their possession of the device, documentation of payment for service, if any,) If eBay does not respond, call them on the phone. File a loss claim with the shipper if the item was sent and not delivered. Contact the U.S. Postal Inspection Service if the USPS handled the shipment. If you can afford DarTZeel gear, you probably have an attorney who can help you. I am assuming you have recorded the eBay listing and gathered the contact information of the seller. You may need to contact law enforcement in that city to notify the police of someone selling stolen goods. Did you report the item as stolen? (By now you should have.)

Part of this makes me wonder if you are trolling. Someone who would source and buy equipment like this ought to be organized enough to not need advice of this kind.

@snook2 is, IMHO, without a doubt trolling, or is willfully hiding key facts that, if known, would have ended this thread long ago. He has willfully chosen to not answer a slew of important well-intentioned questions by myself and others in this post. The only question that remains is why @snook2 finds stringing decent folks along with his booshwa so irresistible, and I suspect most here already know the answer to that question, and that word begins with the letter "A". Enough said.

I suspect most here already know the answer to that question, and that word begins with the letter "A". Enough said

Alzheimer's?

Apparently there are no new updates.

What an odd thread...

Based on the limited data, the guy likely sent his amp back under or not insured. Shipment gets lost. Sender gets upset and either accepts the insured amount or digs in. Shipper could give two hoots because you either declare its proper value or you dont. Lost/damaged/unclaimed goods after a period a period of time are sold to a third party by the pallet, especially if the declared value was low. Sender has gone radio silent because he likely made a few errors in judgement by declaring such a low amount at the outset. 

I'd sure like to know the details about what's really going on...

I hope no one was stupid enough to purchase the Cargo Largo '108!!!💯

The end result is that it is owned by Cargo Largo. They purchase lost items through auction at a collection site. I have tried every angle to retrieve the amp. They all reply that it is under investigation. I even received a call from the Postal Inspecter who in essence said to let it go. I understand people  and a few attacking nerds wanted details but I never received anything definitive to post.