Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

WRT - "I have been able to uncoil the TFA wire once coiled."

An easy approach - I simply place the coil back on a rod and then pull on the wire straight - effectively reversing the winding process.

That way the strands of the Mil-spec wire does not get knotted up with any extra twists.

Regards - Steve

The helix ground on your xlr is never a twisted pair, but always a coiled helix. It is not a huge sonic degrade if you just use one conductor as the helix. However, two sound a tad better. 

If using two wires on the helix, then just coil them up side by side on your drill at the same time.  Very easy to do.  I have been able to uncoil the TFA wire once coiled.  Took my time and did a good job of getting it straight again. 

I would use a 4-4.5 to 1 ratio on the helix to pin 2&3 conductors if just using one conductor. 

Thanks for the input and confirmation @grannyring Do the ground conductors that make the helix shape need to be also twisted pair or should it be two helix just slotted into each other? If the ground conductors need to be made into twisted pairs first, i imagine it'd be hard to make it into a helix after. Also my current RCA already have the ground helix, would be easier to add a helix than to try to straighten it first then make it into a twisted pair.

Lastly would it be a huge compromise on SQ if I only doubled up on the signal wires and left the ground as single run?

@divertiti,

The idea here is to build two individual XLR cables into one. If you do that, then this is the build.

* Two twisted pairs with each individual twisted pair going to pins 2 and 3. Be careful not to mix up the wires when soldering to pins 2 and 3. Use your multimeter continuity setting and double check as you build.

* Two TFA 16 gauge conductors on the ground .... pin 1.

This is not about total gauge. It is about making two ICs into one. So no, one 15 gauge conductor is not the same or as good as the two 18 gauge twisted pairs!

Also, thicker gauge reaches a point of diminishing returns once you get lower than 16 gauge in ICs.

@divertiti - Unfortunately I am unable to answer your questions because I have no XLR cables in my system

I think that perhaps @wig  and @grannyring can provide better input on this matter.

Or perhaps there is someone else that can provide more concrete feedback?

Regards - Steve

Loving the discussion here, props to Steve for bringing this to the community. I'm running a full loom of DIY helix cables in my system, Mundorf silver gold for interconnect and VH copper for power and speaker.

A few question for the experts here since my system has changed and I need to convert my RCA interconnects to XLRs: 
1. One of my interconnects I'm running a double run of the 18ga Mundorf silver cold, and it sounds very good. When I convert them to XLRs, should I double the number of signal wires to 4 runs (2 runs per signal terminal) since XLR has 2 signals instead of 1? or should I just use each of the 18ga in the double run for the 2 signals?

2. Is my current double run of 18ga effectively the same as using the 15ga of the same wire?

3. When switching to XLR, should I switch to 15ga wires to have the same effective gauge of the original double run 18ga per signal? or would 15ga be too thick for interconnects?

Not the best articulation but hopefully you guys can shed some light,  thanks.

Yes the cotton is smart.  7mm outer diameter works good. 5mm internal diameter.

Great, thank you.  I'll grab a bunch of extra in case I have to build it up as it will depend on what the ID of my return coil is.

Yes the cotton is smart.  7mm outer diameter works good. 5mm internal diameter. 

I'd like to build a Double Double Helix cable.  I'll probably go with 18 awg Airlok for the hot and 16 awg mil spec from TFA for the return.  The only thing bothering me is how the hot and return can move in relation to each other.  That can't be a good thing, can it? 

I saw someone, maybe Grannyring, mention using cotton braid over the hot run to fill the gap.  What sizes and how many layers are necessary to fill the gap with the wire gauges I have settled on?
Am I overthinking it?  Is the cotton braid even necessary?

Agree that all silver VH is too much in a system. I like it as the digital source cable only, USB or SPDIF etc...

I have always liked Neotech silver/gold stranded and would love to try the solid core in Teflon. 

@ grannyring

I used the VH OCC 18 Ga in my IC for over 2 months but it became too forward sounding and noticed that images are more solid with copper when compared directly but it’s a balance for sure because I was initially using all OCC silver.

Currently using OCC silver in Dac and CD Transport PC with great results...

Zenwave Audio is a cable seller and does sell cabling for DIY purposes and sells very good built cabling as well.

Wig : )

Yes indeed two is all you need, but 18-20 gauge would be better if they had it to try. Even when I tried the Mundorf solid core silver/gold the 18 gauge was better than the thinner gauges. Crazy expensive however. Zenwave is a cable seller, not DIY wire seller? Right?

Have you tried the VH silver 18 gauge in your ICs? I find it rather perfect. Two runs on the positive.

Sounds like you were able to purchase some wire from Zenwave?

Quick DIY Helix Interconnects Update!

Guys,

I have been experimenting with different wiring for over 4 months now and can report the cabling I am using and offer you 2 options:

Option 1: If you are looking for a tad more resolution over your copper cabling, I recommend removing the copper and adding 2 runs of Zenwave Audio 26 Ga (Neotech Teflon solid OCC silver/gold).

Option 2: If you are wanting even more resolution without sacrificing a thinning of sound with all silver and love the beauty of copper (I do), I recommend 1 run of Zenwave Audio 26 Ga silver/gold and 1 run of Zenwave Audio 26 Ga solid OCC pure silver wire.

I also tried up to 4 runs of wires per interconnect and couldn’t really discern any differences and after corresponding with several wire distributors and cable builders and the theme is that 2 runs of wiring is all that is really needed and 24 gauge was the type with minimal skin effect; 26 gauge got me close to that…

Wig

@ williewonka @ grannyring

Outstanding information and evaluations!

Wig

@goose - all updates will be there next week - I was waiting for the upgrade to the IC's before making changes to the site update.

The content of the site is still relevant, it is just missing the Neotech wire. There are no changes to the fabrication approach, just the wire used for the signal or live conductors
   
Basically - I will  now be including the Neotech wire on my site, in addition to the VH Audio and Mundorf wires.

The only difference in this thread - I mentioned that I removed the insulation on the power and speaker cables.
I will not be covering this approach because of the related tarnish/oxidation issues, which I am finding are too difficult to overcome for the average DIYer.
I believe leaving the insulation in place is not too detrimental to overall system performance and I do not want to recommend an approach if it means that the wire has to be changed in a couple of years after it has turned green and impacting performance

As @grannyring just posted above, we are now talking about very small personal preferences and system synergies...
- On my system I prefer the Neotech
- On his system he prefers the VH Audio
- and if we were able to listen to each others systems we would probably agree on the choices we have each made for those systems.

There is very little difference in performance between these two wires - they are both excellent choices.

Perhaps combining them throughout the system might be the right choice for your system.

@oldears - agreed, Furutech does make some very good solid core wires. I recently heard from a fellow DIYer about how pleased he was when he upgraded his power cables with a 12 gauge Furutech solid core  wire.

There are just so many wires - and so little time :-)

Hope that helps - Steve

I don't know about the Neotech 18 ga solid core, but your description reminds me of short balanced cables I built a long time ago with Furutech FA-13S 16ga OFC solid core cable. The Cu is very maleable and the cables can be formed and stay where you put them. They had a somewhat sweet string sound.

Thank you for this update Steve. You have been working! Seems your result is somewhat system dependent. I find the VH wire more refined and not as up front sounding. I am very familiar with the Neotech wire as I have used it in builds (electronics) for many years. In my system I find it a tad forward and forced compared to VH. Now this is subtle thing and not day and night different.  I find the VH wire a tad more refined and less forward. Too forward sounding is a sensitive sonic area for me so my subjective taste kicks in here.  

I recently used the Neotech copper in my power cord and while I love it, it is more forward sounding and would not use it in my other power cords because of that.  System balance is good right now and I am afraid to mess with it. 

So many variables from system to system, room to room, person to person that I think we are now down to system synergies and preferences. I really don’t think one is the best option for all situations and systems.

I do like the Neotech silver & gold conductor very much, but they don’t offer it in a gauge I would want (18-20).

Steve,

It would really be helpful if you could update your website with the “best of” builds for IC’s and PC’s.  It’s getting difficult to follow this thread with all the great experiments.  I appreciate all your hard work and others, l just don’t want to miss out on a great build!

AND FINALLY...
- a 2 x 18 gauge Solid copper(Teflon) Neotech wire, replacing the 2 x 18 gauge Solid copper(AirLok) VH Audio  wire in the interconnects!!!

Yep - after the success with the power and speaker cables I just had to try it on the IC's - and very glad I did.:-)

Both the VH audio wire and the Neotech 18 gauge solid copper wires are stunning performers...
- dynamic, articulate, amazing clarity and details, larger than life Imaging and focused sound state with a reality seldom matched by TOTL cables.

So why was I glad I tried them? one word - smooooooth !!!

This was probably the most difficult audition I have ever undertaken...
- there was definitely "something" about these cables, but putting my finger on it was extremely difficult.

All of the usual metrics (listed above) seemed to swing back and forth
- dynamics were a little crisper on the Neotech
- details seemed a little clearer on the Vh Audio
- image was expansive and focused for both, but that seemed to change slightly from track to track

Even my best albums were not making the difference convincing, but there was something with the Neotech that kept pulling me back to them.

Finally, it took a listen to  Ricky Lee Jones an Diana Krall to nail it - WARMTH !!!

Warmth is one of those metrics that can also be interpreted as a lack of upper end detail - but that detail was still there but with a softer more realistic presentation.

Once I had locked into that presentation, all became clear
- the mid tones seemed softer, fuller and warmer,
- the highs, such as cymbals were less harsh and had a fullness to them,
- the bass lines were not louder, they just revealed a deeper texture
- and the vocal sibilance much more palatable.
- Basically - more "body" to the music across the board

Now I must stress these changes are small they took a while for me to nail them down, but now I have, it makes listening that much more pleasurable because I know what to listen for and it's now the music is a little less fatiguing, not that it was an issue with the VH Audio - it's just that much more more pleasant now. 

So this ends my Neotech Journey, maybe. The performance of the copper wire is now making me take a second look at their solid silver wire.
Which sorta completes the circle, because the first quality wire I used was 24 gauge Solid Silver from Neotech - go figure :-)

Hope you find the information helpful

Regards - Steve

Bill aka grannyring was gracious enough to build me a couple of more cables, another set of Double Helix RCA's and a SPDIF digital cable.  I now have Double Helix RCA's in both of my systems between DACs and either preamp or integrated amp, and the SPDIF digital in my main system. I also have a Double Helix USB cable that I have not used yet but will once I decide on streaming service/method. Very pleased with the natural sound of these cables. Thanks!

I also replaced the 5 runs of VH Audio 18 gauge on the live conductor for the power cord used on my conditioner with two runs of the Neotech 12 gauge solid core copper in Teflon.

I dry-crimped the copper spade ends, then soldered where the wire pokes through the barrel ends, added small heat-shrink over those, for solid, secure and sealed effects.

My audible results mirror Grannyring, Williewonka & Wig exactly📢😉📢

I forgot to mention - the PC (above) was ultimately for my 200 watt A/V system subwoofer.

Now - the internal 200 watt amp grabs the voice coil and controls the 8" long throw speaker cone the way it was designed to do, delivering crisp, clean textured bass tones and LFE’s.

The improvement was most noticeable :-)

Regards - Steve

@wig + @grannyring - Glad you are still finding improvements :-)

POWER CABLE UPDATE...

So I had some Neotech 12 gauge left over and decided to upgrade the live conductor on one of my A/V power cables.

NOTE: I did NOT remove the insulation of the Neotech wire as I have with other PC’s

But before installing it in my A/V system, I figured I would try it out on my Bluesound Node 2i streamer - which originally had a PC with a 1 x 18 gauge Solid Silver wire from VH Audio.

One again, the 12 gauge Neotech outperformed the VH Audio wire...
- larger more spacious and accurate image
- improved bass detail and texture
- improved clarity and details

It seems there was no impact to clarity and details, so for safety and longevity I will be using the Neotech wire WITH its Teflon Insulation from now on.

What about the existing cables with bare Neotech wire?
- the copper seems to be holding up very well on the cables where I have removed the insulation
- I keep a piece of bare wire on my audio stand to see how it tarnishes
- my cables have a clear PVC tube over the bare wire so I can see it
- the bare wire on the audio stand has started to darken
- the bare wire inside the tube is still very bright

It seems that provided you seal the ends of the tube using heat-shrink (with adhesive) it will slow the oxidizing process.

But since it appears to make very little difference in sound quality - leave the Teflon in place :-)

Regards

This is the best read on Audiogon. Great information. I wish i could build some of these cables but i no longer have steady hands.

@grannyring 

That's awesome and exactly what I noticed, everything has a sense of fluidity and effortless flow...

Wig : )

Wow.  The more I listen, the more impressed I am. More at ease, better sense of control, larger stage, better focus, greater bottom end solidity.  

I replaced the 5 runs of VH Audio 18 gauge on the live conductor for the power cord used on my conditioner. I replaced with two runs of the Neotech 12 gauge solid core copper in Teflon. I left the Teflon in place. Yes indeed this was a significant upgrade in sound. No doubt. Wonderful.

I will do the same on the power cord to my SS Coda amplifier next. I figure the VH Audio is fine on the dac and streamer so I will leave those alone. I will use two runs of Neotech 12 gauge in Teflon for the live conductor in the amp’s power cord.

@facten

When you hit the 75-100 hour mark, you will notice the sound stage opening up  with more depth and layering.

After 125-200 hours, your staging is beyond the boundaries of your loudspeakers, layering and depth much more tangible with details rendered clean, extended and very natural sounding.

Your system will continue to improve with the addition of more Helix cables...

Wig😁

@williewonka

Thanks Steve. I have 40 hours on them at this point , thus far all good

@facten - welcome to the Helix Club :-)

As @wig said - give them a couple of hundred hours burn-in for a stable sound - they will still improve a little after that - generally a bit more in the area of fine details.

They can exhibit some strange behavior between 20-60 hours, but that will subside.

Power and speaker cables also have a very positive impact - but the IC's are a nice place to start.

Regards - Steve

Speaker Cable Update - with just over 250 hours on the cables they are settling down nicely

There were some moments where things got "Twilight Zone" strange, but they did not last

The improvement I was most intrigued by was  the perception of three dimensional space, which has improved to the point where reverberations, apparently from overhead is making the perception of being in the concert hall that much more realistic.

Dynamics, clarity and details are improved over the 14 gauge Neotech wire and with the improved imaging and focus adds to the perceived reality.

But I do find the amount of bass did not change from the 2 x 18 gauge solid copper from VH Audio. However, the amount of texture within low frequencies on certain tracks has improved considerably, which made the bass sound a little "lighter", but more enjoyable

I am/will monitor the brightness of the copper wire inside the PVC tubing. I am hoping that sealing each end of the tube will prove to be an effective deterrent to the oxidizing process.

Hopefully by the time the bare copper has oxidized, an alternative to Teflon Insulation  will be available - perhaps foamed Teflon ???

On the positive side - the move by cable companies to the more advanced insulation types is trickling down to the parts providers, so there is a real possibility of foamed Teflon becoming more  of a standard in the near future.

With that - I will sign off :-)

Regards - Steve

Nice update and info Steve! Thank you. 

I was recently asked...

Do you consider these cables shielded? For example, could the ICs be used on a phono stage and keep noise out?

And here was my response...
---------------------------------
I've had some good and one bad result in this area. I think it depends on the many factors that can come into play in an audio system e.g.

• grounding of components
• for example, NAIM only grounds the neutral on their source components - not the amps
• their approach often leads to hum when non-Naim source components are used
• grounding the neutral side of the amp circuit will fix this issue - by making a grounding lead 
• grounding of the turntable arm
• if done right there should be no problem, but many times it is arm grounding is incomplete
• Cartridge selection
• some cartridges can be more prone to RFI
• e.g. Grace cartridges can produce hum on some Rega TT's
• wiring of the arm
• I use a one piece harness from the cartridge to the phono stage
• some TT's has a joint to a larger gauge cable at the arm anchor point
• some have phono sockets at the rear of the turntable
• Any of the above can be problematic
• the phono stage
• good ones mitigate a lot of RFI issues
• phono stages with grounded power supplies are often the best choice
• tidy cable positioning
• poor positioning will exacerbate the situation

These are the reasons I tend not to recommend Helix for TT use. Trying to debug a hum is always problematic
Having said that - A friend with an all tube system experienced terrible hum

Other DIYers have reported excellent results, but their gear was top quality and they appreciated the need for cable positioning - some with tube and some with solid state

I generally recommend using 24 gauge wire for the signal and 20 gauge Mil-Spec for the neutral with a 4:1 or even 5:1 ratio of neutral to signal wire length - the reason for such light gauge is that thinner gauge wires are less responsive to RFI

The helix acts like a faraday cage for some protection, but it is not a "fully screened" solution

As an example - I tried a standard IC (16 gauge Duelund signal and 2 x 16 gauge mil-spec) in my system and held the IC against a Helix power cables in my clenched fist - with the amp on Phono and turned up to full volume I did hearjust a little hum

By comparison - you could hear hum at normal volumes on my friends all tube system with the cables separated

So it is not as simple as i would like in order to recommend using Helix for TT's

It's more a case of try a regular Helix IC and if that works go for the lighter gauge version
---------------------------------------

So, under the "right conditions" The helix Interconnect will provide exceptional performance between a turntable and phono stage.

Unfortunately I cannot say exactly what those conditions are, but if you already have a pair of IC's, try connecting them between your TT and phono stage to see if there is any hum - the "conditions" in your system may be "just perfect"

NOTE: If your Turntable has RCA socket outputs on the rear and there is some RFI interference in the form of HUM or you can hear a radio channel - all is not lost...
- TT's that have RCA Sockets generally also have a ground wire terminal that should be connected to the ground terminal on your phono stage.
- one might think the neutral side of the RCA is connected to that ground wire terminal, but there is a case for not connecting them, so leaving them disconnected is the best option
- I found a simple solution to this problem on the web - Simply attach a small piece of wire from the ground terminal around the neutral side of each RCA socket - apparently it works very well

BTW - for best grounding results from TT to phono stage I ensure a  Spade or Ring connectors makes the connection - NOT bare wire

 Regards - Steve

They will go up a few more notches after burn-in =D

Wig

I’ll leave all of the technical stuff to you in the know, what I will say is that after just 5-6 hours of listening to a set of RCA’s that Bill (grannyring) built for me with this technology and his talents and I am convinced

My listening experience showed too much insulation had a tendency to "closed the sound in" although it would be "quiet"

A thin seal coating on the copper would be preferable AND keeping conductors separated in air, yet in a spiral-type configuration.

@rx8man - thanks for the post - the enamel "insulation" has  Dielectric Constant of around 3.2, which is higher than Teflon. But now I am left wondering if the thickness of the insulation plays a significant role.

Like @stringreen  posted - It would be nice if Chris at VH Audio made his wire in 12 or 14  gage

Perhaps if we all ask for it?

Cheers - Steve

 

Anticables Web:
"How durable is the red coating?

The red coating will not wear off under normal conditions. The red coating can be scraped off with a sharp knife edge, yet a sharp knife would also cut any typical cable as well.

The great thing about the red coating is it also keeps oxygen off the copper through the life of the cables, preventing oxidation and sonic degradation. This is something no typical speaker cable can do. Cut open a 5 year old set of typical cables, and don’t be surprised if the copper looks discolored like an old penny."

And here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/anticables-speaker-wire-have-no-plastic-jacket-insulation

WRT bare wire - the one advantage of the PVC tube is it is perfectly clear, so I can see any oxidation. The wire is very bright right now and easily seen.

I'm wondering if coating the wire with a very thin coat varnish or urethane would work?

Anyone know what the coating is on transformer wire? 
- That is very thin and probably lowers the impact of insulation

Cheers - Steve.

Wonder if Chris at VH Audio would consider making his solid core Airlock copper in a 12 gauge thickness? That would be the ticket in my estimation. I also think the bare copper will oxidize over time, but how much and to what sonic impact? Not sure. 

Great stuff! My guess is the 12 gauge with molded Teflon jacket in place would sound even better on your speaker cables.  I use 2-10 gauge conductors per leg in my speakers cables as an FYI. Sounded better than a single 10 gauge per leg.  These are not Helix cables however. I use Helix jumpers up to my mids and highs. 

Speaker Cable Update. Bare 14 gauge Neotech Solid wire inside PVC tube...

First - I would NOT recommend the PVC tube for any cable over 6-7ft long, simply because the PVC is quite supple and "grippy", which makes inserting the bare wire quite troublesome. I believe the Teflon tube would not suffer the same issue and would probably be just as effective..My cables are around 9ft long and it took some effort to get the wire in the tube.

So, right from the get-go the 14 gauge Neotech (bare wire) in the PVC tube sounded better than the 2 x 18 gauge Vh Audio wire...
- Bigger image
- improved Artist separation and focus - more space around artists
- slightly faster dynamics
- improved clarity
- improved details

That lasted for about 12 hours and then things started to get a little weird...
The image started going a little crazy, with some instruments darting around the image. Also, standing 4ft to the right of center, the central voice appeared to come from the side wall but not from reflections off the wall. But in the listening position it was perfect.

With the VH Audio wire, standing in the same position the artist was always in the center.

So today was day4 (approaching 100 hours) of the burn-in process and I am glad to report the rather flakey image issues have been "cured" and I think things will improve further.

With this wire I now have a full appreciation of what @grannyring refers to as :the "wall of sound".
- the image extends in every dimension and very "3D like"
- improved Artist separation and focus - really is like "being there"
- dynamics are the most realistic yet experienced
- improved clarity - again, like being there
- improved details - you’ll definitely hear new things on pretty much every track.
- speakers? - what speakers? - totally invisible!

The only concern I have with going the bare wire route is whether the bare copper will tarnish/corrode inside the PVC (or even Teflon) tubing over time and impact sound quality.
I did "seal" each end with a 1" piece of heat shrink (with adhesive on the inside) in an attempt to at least slow down the oxidizing process.

Perhaps leaving the Teflon insulation in place might prove to be the best route?
- the question is how much does the Teflon (molded onto the wire) impact sound quality?

I’ll let you know if I ever have to replace the bare wire :-)

BTW - finally fully experiencing that "wall of sound", makes this upgrade well worth the cost and effort. It is immense, enveloping and very compelling.

Until the next upgrade :-)

Regards - Steve.

Power Cable UPDATE: So today’s venture replaced the Cotton Sleeve on the power cable to my amp with the PVC tube mentioned above.

The cable had been completely burned in
- I removed one of the Spade connectors
- inserted the wire into the tube
- placed heat shrink with adhesive at both ends to "seal" the tube
- reattached spade connector and the mains connectors

The improvements, although quite small, were immediately discernible.
- more detailed venue acoustics
- improved clarity, textures and harmonics
- more precise image focus and artist placement

Orchestral tracks sound more spacious and focused and Pipe Organ music (in a church venue) exhibited an improved "perception of height".

I believe there is a downside to being able to reproduce music to this level of detail...
- The "engineered" venue acoustics on (some) tracks that were recorded in the studio have a tendency to now sound a bit "fake" - there is just too much echo/reverberations to be believable

However, the tracks recorded at the venue sound amazingly lifelike. e.g. there is more separation between the the various sections of the Orchestra in width and depth.

Considering the price of this upgrade - About $1.30 - I would say it was worth it. :-)

It would seem the key is to reduce the amount of surface area of the wire that touches the insulation. The Dielectric Constant (Dk) of cotton is around 1.3 and Air is around 1.1

I think the PVC tube is now my insulation of choice when using bare wire for the conductor. Teflon would probably have the same effect, but is considerably more expensive in comparison

I think I have probably squeezed the last ounce of performance out of my copper power cables - I have no plans to try the same thing with the Neutral wire, it would be far to complicated a venture.

Speaker cables are up next for the exact same treatment..
- I’ve decided to try a single 14 gauge bare Neotech UP-OCC wire
- inside the same PVC tube

Will keep you all posted in a couple of weeks

Regards Steve

@rx8man - I didn't realize that - that just makes it "messy" - no [problem :-)

Enjoy - Steve

Steve, the Inakustik has a 20amp IEC, this limits swapping, unless I get an adapter.

@grannyring - thanks for the thoughts - as always very useful.

Initially my thought was to try 2 x 18 gauge because it would be a direct comparison of the two brands of wires

BUT - After giving this more thought, I think I am going to try a 2 x 16 gauge Neotech AND, as a separate test -  a single strand of 14 Gauge Neotech - both bare wire inside the PVC tube that I used in the power cable.

I’m thinking both these approaches will probably perform better than 2 x 18 gauge Vh Audio wires

Will get back to you once I get the wire(s)

Cheers

@rx8man - thanks for the update on your power cables

So I was wondering if you had tried replacing the Helic PC with one of the Mad Scientist cables to connect the power conditioner to the wall outlet and use the Helix PC for either a source or your amp.

If you have tried this what were your observations -preferences?

I ask because based on the various things I have tried, having the Helix Power cables connected to a component (vs. the power conditioner) has generally provided better sound.

But there are many things at play in a system, so this may not be the case in your system

Regards - Steve

Steve, my mistake as I noticed you already mentioned the Neotech PVC option. Sorry! 

Steve I am thinking your Neotech power cord experience has much more to do with gauge and voltage carried than the sonic qualities of the two brands of wire. I think if the VH Audio wire was offered in 12 gauge would likely sound even better than Neotech. I just don’t think combining 18 gauge conductors for a power cord is ideal. Your results point to that in my opinion.

Now I happen to think 14 and 12 gauge conductors would be better for speaker cables than 18 gauge. Even if you combine two 18 gauge conductors I feel the single 12 gauge conductor would be better....within the same brand. This is based on my listening tests with several well touted brands of conductors. No matter the outer insulation the heavier gauge within each brand always sounded better with speaker cables. Improved fullness, bass drive, dynamics and midrange bloom. I would go with the 12 gauge 🤓 for moderate to high power amps with less efficient or moderately efficient speakers. Highly efficient speakers coupled with a low watt tube amp work fine with 16 or 14 gauge provided the length is under say 10 feet.

Will the 12 or 14 gauge Neotech wire sound better than two 18 gauge VH Audio conductors in your speaker cables? Really don’t know until you try. While the Neotech gauge is more to my liking will that positive outweigh the positive sonic qualities of the VH wire? Don’t know as I have not compared. I would not use less than two VH Audio 18 gauge conductors in your speaker cables however.

Question for you. Neotech sells the solid core copper wire in PVC for $2 per foot less than Teflon. Since it is the same internal wire and you are stripping off the insulation, it would seem smart to buy the PVC version of the Neotech wire. Perhaps you shared this, but I may have missed this.

Thank you so much for this power cord discovery!

Main Helix PC into: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-full-review-inakustik-s-ac-3500p-power-station-and-ls-400... 

All other PC's: http://madscientist-audio.com/presta/power-cords/71-power-cord-with-power-purifier.html

@grannyring - re:...

Speaker cables would be far too expensive for me with this wire.

Since my experience replacing the VH Audio with the Neotech copper in my power cables has been so positive, I’m wondering if the same improvements could be achieved with the speaker cables.

i.e. the latest power able upgrade replaced 4 x 18 gauge VH Audio with Air Lok insulation with 1 x 12 gauge Neotech OCC Copper bare inside a PVC tube - the results are stunning

Would you have any thoughts as to which of the following options might be the most beneficial?

#1 - Two strands of 18 gauge Neotech £6.92+vat+p&p per meter
- basically replacing the same gauge Vh Audio wire

#2 - One strand of 14 gauge Neotech £13.86+vat+p&p per meter
- basically increasing the gauge in a single wire to double that of the 2 x 18 gauge.

#3 - One strand of 12 gauge Neotech £21.76+vat+p&p - I think this is overkill for speaker cables, but the improved performance of my power cable was quite compelling

Note: - I included prices prices just as a comparison

@rx8man - re:...

Helix Power Cable made by member Aniwolfe, that I use for the main line coming into my Inakustik conditioner that works wonders eliminating AC noise issues,

What power cables do you currently have from the power conditioner to source components?

Have you tried the switching them with the Helix cable?

Just curious ?

UPDATE FOR OTHER READERS...

Here is a link to the PVC tube I used to insulate the Live wire on the latest power cable upgrade...
https://www.homedepot.com/p/UDP-1-8-in-I-D-x-3-16-in-O-D-x-100-ft-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing-with-Dispenser-...

Whilst the temperature range (i.e. up to 160 vs. 200 Celsius) may not be up to Teflon standards, at those temperatures the tube just becomes very pliable and unsuitable for use as a pressure/water hose.

As a test - I applied considerably more heat using one of those hand gas lighters that have the "blue flame" - the tube did ignite briefly after quite a long period of time withstanding the intense heat and then went out as soon as I took the flame away.

So for me, this pipe makes a very good insulator for Power and speaker cables i.e. if you want to use bare wire for the signal/live wires. At least it WILL NOT present any issues if someone spills coffee on the cable as it would if cotton sleeve is the insulator :-)

Also - here's the link for the Neotech PVC insulated wire that is cheaper than the Teflon
http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/neotech/neotech-up-occ-hook-up-chassis-wire-page.htm

Regards - Steve