I received a pair of RCA 5960’s NOS from Tubestore Canada as a substitute for 12AT7’s.
Very Very nice.
If you use 12At7’s and NOS, I strongly Suggest you get some of these...NOW.
Anyway just thought I’d put it out there.
TD
Driver Tubes 6922
I've heard a few people opining that the driver tube can be the most important tube.
Why is this?
What do you look for in a 6922?
What differences might I expect to hear replacing my modern GL e88cc with an expensive NOS 6922?
Any recommendations for a 6922 based on actual experience?
Thanks
TD
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Well, I've always had a problem quitting and over reacting. :-) They are back in and Im going to get to the bottom of each and every one scientifically, what it does and when, all before Brent gets back from vacation so I can give him my findings. I'm sure he will be perfectly cool about whatever issues there are.
I always have bad luck though. I had to return my Direct stream jr. because for some reason it wouldn't get along with my pre. That said, everything has been trouble free since then and the H4's have been perfect. | ||
The nos tubes have proven to be too unstable for me. Everything will be sublime for an hour then this one will snow or this one will microphonic or this one will high tone ring. Im tired of chasing which one is doing what. Very disappointing. If I knew I could get a couple nos AX7's and a couple nos AT7's that I could depend on, I would do it, but at this point I just put the GL's in and Im going to not worry about it anymore.
It could be worse.
TD | ||
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@tonydennison interesting I have not had those kind of noise issues with my many tubes. Any tube noise issue I have had was a sign of a bad tube and didn’t get better with use …those GL KT 77 are fantastic tubes…no need to replace those until they wear out. Get some 6922’s first. | ||
For any tubeheads on this thread. Things are sounding sublime. I replaced monoblock input AX7's, and the AT7's in the pre.... Should I even worry about the 6922's in the monoblocks? Thoughts and experiences as to amp drivers? I think because of logevity issues, I will stick with modern GLKT77 power tubes. Thanks
TD | ||
Ok, on the replacement tube from Brent and the other AT7. 1st night the new tube (no pun intended) was quite noisy intermittently which I have read is normal on an actual new tube :-), 2nd night the new tube quieted down but intermittently whistled in a very high pitch. 2nd day, the other At7 whistled on startup. I tapped the tube and it is fine now. Hopefully the whistling will not be a normal occurrence as I woould like to replace the cover on my pre. Anyway, there we have it. Sounding awesome at the moment.
TD | ||
Tony I wouldn’t worry so much about it if the seller will replace a noisy or bad tube. Your going to get bad tubes it’s just going to happen. I’ve been buying most of my tubes used from the same brick and mortar tube store for the last 15 years with great luck. Much cheaper, I just bought some used12ax7’s that test new last week. RCA 60’s black plates $45, 60’s Telefunken smooth plates $55, 60’s Mullard Blackburn plant $45. el34 Mullard xf2’s $100 each. 60 day return no questions asked. Thats pretty much half off NOS tubes.
I've also use Brent for NOS he has always backed up his tube I ended up with a noisy 6922 bugle boy, he had one sent out same day, I do stay away from eBay. Find some good dealers and stick with them they will do you right. | ||
I rolled JJ’s, EH’s, Mullards and I finally found some NOS Amperex with the gold pins from the mid 60’s and I have never been happier. Of the others, only the less expensive EH’s sounded bad. The more expensive ones were better, but kinda sterile sounding. The JJ’s were okay, but we’re just missing something. And for the life of me, I can’t remember why I moved on from the Mullards. All the best. | ||
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@tonydennison ??? I am not getting why I am addressed by yourself. | ||
Or the opposite could be true. So what? I dont have a problem having used tubes. I just dont think you should sell something used and claim it is new. Its not rocket science and I cant understand anyone having an issue with this. If youre seeling something used, dont call it new. I have zero issue with buying used tubes. | ||
@tonydennison the problem is you could buy those tubes you consider new and they may not last or test as new. | ||
If i see a case of tubes wrapped in decades old plastic, I open it to find pristinne boxes with no creases, I open a box to find an unblemeshed tube, I will consider them NOS. If I yank it out of a radio, I would not. If you sell something that is clearly used or has a 50/50 chance of being used....you should absolutely not sell it labelled as new. | ||
@tonydennison no, but just wondering how you would be able to tell if a tube has never been used? I don't think you can tell, by the boxes or the printing on the tube itself. | ||
@tonydennison would you consider a tube as new if has been tested over the years hundreds of times, but never used in any equipment.
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OP, Out of curiosity, how old must a tube be before it becomes a NOS tube. I have a stash of old St Petersburg Svetlana (now SED) power tubes which have been out of production for some time. Are they NOS? They sure are good! FWIW, re NOS v current production 6922/6dj8s after trying/comparing them in a tubed headphone amp, I ended up with JJ's which were very quiet (super important in headphones, you know) and tonally slightly warm. Best of all they are cheap(er) than most other current and NOS tubes. Fairly reliable, I've yet to have one fail. | ||
I've purchased at least 9 NOS matched pair of Siemens, E88CC iterations, over the past 20+ years, from Argentina, Germany (the most), Australia and off eBay. None, in the last 10 years. Mostly: early 60's, grey shields. Actually: all but 1 pair each of early 70's, silver shield, CCa and E188CCs, which were sold because they seemed a bit too strident, in my system. My CDP takes 3 pair and I recently swapped out a sextet of the CCa's (3 different early sixties versions/getters) for 1 pair each of CCa, E88CC and E188CCs, just to see if there was any difference in presentation. I was happy to find everything as excellent and quiet as with the all CCa set. I've stuck with Siemens as my go-to valves, because I found the 12AX7s, my previous CD drive and DACs* took, gave me exactly what I preferred, far as presentation (with nary a hiccup/failure), for quite a few years. Great stuff! * (California Audio Labs Delta, Sigma and then Alpha) | ||
@tonydennison Did Brent say whether the tubes he sells as new are new, to the best of his knowledge, or test new and look pretty good? | ||
@bgross Thanks. BTW Brent is sending out a replacement presently. | ||
About 6mos ago I purchased a pair of NOS, RCA Clear Top 12au7 for my Line Magnetic DAC. I purchased them from a shop that I knew was reputable. When they arrived and I opened the boxes I noted both tubes had a serious flash marks. I mean both looked identical in the way the flash was located in the tube. Called to ask why & was told that happens sometimes in testing and that the tubes in question tested as NOS. I was skeptical and had them tested locally. Sure enough as close to matched as if ever seen and both with NOS life expectancy. Both dead quiet and the tubes themselves brought out the very best in my setup and for certain, DAC. What can I tell you... always a roll of the dice when purchasing NOS so make sure you have a dealer you trust. | ||
Couldn't agree more! +1 | ||
I have come to accept the labeling of used tubes as NOS although I think a better term would be Reclaimed Tubes. All current manufacturers, at least the ones I have used should be utterly ashamed at their ineptness, apathy, ignorance, or whatever it is that makes them seemingly unable to make a tube properly. And I never knew what I was missing. The 1.5 minutes of listening to Black Plate RCA’s and Mullards in my system (even when one of the tubes was dying at the time) showed me that modern manufactures are embarrassingly inadequate. There is absolutely no comparison. The current state of world is so pathetic. Anyway, I have been in further contact with Brent and he will send me a replacement.
Have a great day everyone. | ||
All, In my last post I meant to say "New York OR Heerlen Holland plants". Also in some Amperex tubes, the tube printing is smeared or even partially wiped off and that is not abnormal. The printing is easily damaged during normal handling. Tonydennison, I did not mean to imply that you were overly concerned, I meant more to indicate that there were suppliers that do stand behind their product Pindac, your findings agree with what I have found, that the Orange labeled tubes were not as good as the white label gold pins, and certainly not up to the quality of the SQ or PQ tubes 6922 or 7308. I could not find my listening notes, and I can't recall specific details that I made for those tubes.....just going off of memory there. Best to you all | ||
I have had a few experiences of being demo's 6922/E88CC Tubes, as a result of being loaned valves for a using for Tube Rolling sessions. All Loaned Tubes were tested, and perfectly matched as pairs. All loaned Tubes were ranging from a production era from early 1960's - mid 70's. There were Brands on offer from Mainland Europe, UK and USA. In my Phonostage and DAC the Amperex Bugle Boy (I recall Orange Print) was a no go for myself and others who were present, the intensity of the high frequencies was too much for the ears to settle with. As conjecture only, a overwhelmingly Bass orientated presentation might just come out with these as a viable choice to add a noticeable impact on the balancing across the frequencies. Other Tubes used as comparisons were much more of a 'what's your poison' experience. My Phon's has selected for use, early 60's UK Tubes and the DAC has early 60's German Tubes as the selected type. | ||
Tonydennison, It is not unusual to have a tube fail soon after install, it's part of the deal using 50, 60, 70, 80 year old tubes......I suspect shipping has a lot to do with the failures. Most important is to have a vendor who stands behind his products, and Brent Jessee is one of the best tubes suppliers I am aware of. I've bought a bunch of tubes from him, and he warranted a couple that were DOA. There are dozens of versions of the 12AU7/6DJ8 family and they are numbered differently in Japan/Europe/USA/Russia. I personally prefer Amperex 7308 or 6922 "SQ" or "PQ" gold pin tubes. I believe all of these were made at Amperex (owned by Philips) New York plant in Heerlen Holland.....going off of memory. Below is the best 12AU7 style tube information I've ever found and it is from Brent....talks about most all of the different tubes, and their sound characteristics as well | ||
Hey @oddiofyl why did you buy that laptop just to look at the date & time up in the corner? | ||
Thanx for the info. Hopefully I wont get addicted to NOS, I just want two sets of AT7, AX7, 6922 and hopefully I’ll be set for life.
As to NEW, I am actually not that hung up on that. I’m annoyed that people list items as New Old Stock.....and they are not new.
How hard is it to say, "I sell used tubes I pull out of old radios. They test New and they’re awesome." Thats how to do it. What if I sold a used scarred Mac 275 on Audiogon and I list it as NEW? That wouldn’t be right. But if I sell used tubes, I can call them new? Doesn’t make sense to me. Again, I don’t care if they’re used, but don’t piss in my ear and tell me it’s raining.
That’s all.
T
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I didn't buy it just for that. I test all parameters . I was lucky and found d 9ne that looks like it was in a museum. It was serviced a few years ago by the previous owner. I'm sure Andy is a good guy and reputable, but if I bought tubes from him I would test them as well. As mentioned earlier my tester is fairly accurate enough to verify I'm not getting screwed | ||
Those testers are 60 plus years old so I'm not expecting true accuracy. I want to test for shorts first and foremost. That's what will damage your gear. Tomcy6, you are dead on. No one tracked the tubes that were in those caddies. Repairmen had tons of tubes on hand. It was common practice for a tech to replace all tubes , that way much less chance of a return call. What happened to the tubes that were pulled? They went back in someones caddy and the bad tube was tossed. My tester is within 50 microhmos of a 6L6 and 12ax7 that were tested on an Amplitrex so that's good enough for me. | ||