Does anyone on AG truly care anymore about objectivity & sincerity of Magazine reviews?


The latest cover story In the Absolute Sound triumphs the latest 3rd generation YG loudspeakers & their very best, latest technology. While the accolades commence (& do they ever), they only say, "the aluminum- coned midrange driver are carried over from the series 2" conspicuously omitting to mention nothing whatsoever has been done to it - ever (unlike virtually all their competitors who've had numerous major improvements to their MRs). It’s exactly the same driver that came with the speaker when it was first introduced decades plus ago. Their claims for it have not been verified by any 3rd party ever & no audio company has tried to copy their aluminum drivers ever, either. Entry level Paradigms perhaps, but they have the wisdom to understand aluminum cannot be made to compete with the beryllium they use on their upper end product.

Regarding the revised silk dome tweeter, "you may think your speakers excel in this area but until you’ve heard something like the 3s...you may have never heard true high frequency refinement". So a complete dismissal (with no comparisons of any kind of course) of all Diamond, Beryllium, ribbon, electrostatic etc. tweeters, just like that.

Is it just me or is there (from the Wizard of Oz) a clearly implied, "Ignore that man behind the curtain! !" message, as YG simultaneously has a full page, 4 color ad in the same issue & has been an extremely heavy advertiser for years in the magazine?

I’m reminded of the con man’s credo - You can fool some of the people all the time & all the people some of the time - & that’s enough. I had thought that’s not an especially good, long term business model. Maybe I’m wrong on this last, here.

john1

As a kid, the two magazines always available in the house were Gramophone and Autocar.  Gramophone concentrates on reviewing classical recordings, with some equipment reviews.  When new recordings are compared with the finest prior recordings, you can easily read between the lines.  They did not publish bad equipment reviews because they did not want to waste space on them!

I remember a series of tyre adverts in Autocar.  According to the ads, this new wonder tyre had almost double the tyre life, better braking, better roadholding, better handling and it also reduced fuel consumption!  Looked far too good to be true, but steel-belted radial tyres are now ubiquitous for cars.  The claims were true!

I've discovered that products that do not change much, don't get reviewed much.  Get a product right first-time and you will hear about it once in reviews, unless it turns up as a classic in retrospectives.

I’d have to say that of all audio forums with which I am familiar, AG is the one where you’re least likely to encounter an appreciation for real objectivity and quantitative data. 

This is mostly the realm of enchantment where “veils were lifted” by $10K quantum-nano-carbon footers and dyed glass fuses.

It has long seemed to me that a majority of members here believe that price has a direct correlation with performance. 

 

 

Objectivity and sincerity are things to be valued. Just surely don’t ever expect both when it comes to marketing. Especially objectivity. You are likely to be greatly disappointed.

I learn about any interesting audio equipment solely through reviews from magazines, the internet, or YouTube videos. Over the years, I have purchased a very good system. The speakers, not listed, are the only items I would not buy without hearing them first.  The first time I listened to any of the electronics was in my home after the purchase based on what I had learned.

Denafrips Gaia DDC 
Denefrips Terminator Dac
PS Audio BHK Signature Pre Amplifier (tubed input stage)
Pass Labs X260.8 Mono Amplifiers (2)
Sony Blu Ray UBP-X800 CD/Blu Ray Player

Every piece listed above did exactly what I was looking for and expected based solely on the information sources I used.  I do not care how, why, or what alleged gains these writers received; their opinions were truthful and helpful.  Since I live in an audio wasteland state, Oklahoma, they were my only source of enlightenment.

I was sorta gratified to once read in … the absolute sound or stereo review, I forget which ….. that the reviewer felt that the Futterman OTLs that I own are among the 5 best amps of all time. But really, I read reviews these days mostly for entertainment. I’m not buying anything these days other than for maintenance. I’m set with my gear. And I got set by listening …. to the gear through my own ears, not through the ears of someone else as described in their (often silly, hyperbolic) reviews that can be so one-sidedly over the top as to read like paid editorial.  

Yeah ,I really remember reading them all back in the 60s n 70s..I took a break buying them now just read them at my Library along with Rolling Stone ...They alway gave good reviews...and no bad ones ...Hear you get more interesting information .

 

 

I read the articles and find them interesting but I never purchased anything from any reviews. I believe most reviewers give honest reports.  The equipment they evaluate is going to sound different in your house. The cables they use, other equipment they are using, room acoustics are all going to be different in your house. The best I have done many years ago when I was very much into it, when reliable audio dealers would let you take two or three pieces home and evaluate them. I would take equipment the reviewers evaluated and evaluate them myself. I would never buy any equipment that has been reviewed without reviewing it myself first. Today there are not as many dealers, so you read a review, then order it on the web and find it is not what you expect, some places will give you time to return it if you are not satisfied, what about the ones that don’t. 

Let me begin with disclosure.  I am a reviewer.  I am not going to defend or criticize what reviewers as a class do or discuss whether the reviews are in some appropriate sense 'objective'.  I have my own approach to reviewing. I view what I  do as a form of 'audio criticism' along the lines of 'art criticism' or 'dance or theater criticism.'   My reviews of components are not designed to express a judgment or encourage or discourage purchases.  They are designed to help explore issues in the distinction between sound and music, help elucidate key concepts in audio such as  'fidelity', 'representation', ' resolution',etc and to connect these concepts as they are used in audio to the role they play in other aesthetics. That's my framework.  So just to give a simple example.  Resolution in a painting or a novel is a way of describing a kind of completeness.  Its opposite is unresolved as in an unresolved painting or novel: both of which fall short in some important way of being capable of providing narrative or cognitive content.  In audio, resolution has taken on a quite different meaning that, from my point of view, is unconnected to anything musically valuable -- and much more connected to sonic attributes of a system.

My interest in this particular discussion can be captured in a couple of questions: what is it that readers expect from reviews?  What is it reasonable for them to expect from reviews?  What are the criteria for determining whether reviews are helpful, and helpful in what ways?

The first thing I would emphasize is that the entire 'high end audio' sector is a kind of ecosystem.  It consists of a set of intersecting and mutually supportive (to a degree) organizations and institutions. Reviewing mediates in some ways between the sales side and the purchase side. The magazines have a role to play in this. That role imposes a very complicated set of responsibilities to both the readers/purchasers and the producers/manufacturers.  These responsibilities do not create necessarily create conflicts of interest, but they cannot help but  create tensions.  The editors, and ultimately, the particular reviewers have to figure out for themselves a way of resolving the tensions that satisfies personal as well as objective criteria or integrity.  The tensions can turn into conflicts of interest when the incentives that naturally arise are not appropriately resisted.  That is why integrity matters as much as it does.

Readers have a right to expect commitment to overall high levels of integrity that reflect an understanding of the fact that this niche sector can survive and prove valuable to all only if the actors recognize that it is an ecosystem that requires a degree of appropriate support for others within it.  This means that in general the review process has to provide some level of support for manufacturers and producers as well as useful information to readers. 

No one should fool themselves into thinking that the cooperation necessary for the ecosystem to survive and provide value for all doesn't create incentives that, if not adequately resisted, threaten to undermine the values it is designed to provide

Just as lawyers have incentives (when possible) to search for favorable jurisdictions and judges for their causes, so too do manufacturers have incentives to search for 'favorable' outlets and reviewers.  That is unavoidable.  There are other incentives in place for reviewers and readers alike, not to mention dealers that can exacerbate the tensions and make one feel from time to time that something has gone terribly awry.

No one should deny this nor should anyone deny that it can be a genuine problem that the industry as a whole needs to address.  The question is whether there are mechanisms in place that mitigate the impact of the incentives and their potentially perverse effects -- beyond reliance on personal integrity.

At this point, we have the advantage of there being so many reviewers and so many reviews to choose among.   It's a greatly democraticize or distributed field these days, much in the way the fall of the giant record labels led to a more general and distributed set of 'curators', e.g. the Pitchforks of the world.  Beyond that, all readers have to judge the integrity of particular reviewers and reviewers must take seriously their responsibilities to the audience.  

Whether we see ourselves this way or not, reviewers are curators; at least that is what the vast majority of readers see us as (if not quite in those terms).  It would be helpful if we saw ourselves in that way as doing so calls for adopting certain norms and reflecting not only on our role in the ecosystem but on our capacities to fulfill those roles well.

The pressure many reviewers feel to make judgments and guide purchasing decisions should not be underestimated.  It comes as much from the readership as it does from the manufacturing and sales side.  It's reasonable for both sides to want it.  It is unclear to me whether reviewers are typically in a position to offer such judgments or for either readers or manufacturers to take the judgments as authoritative.

But that is OK because, at least from my perspective, purchasing judgments are the least valuable aspect of curatorship.  Providing education is far more important, for in the long run education is required if the audience is to make individual choices that they believe are well informed and with which they turn out to be happy or (at least) satisfied. 

I read reviews to discover what is new, to enjoy seeing the enthusiasm some reviewers have in sharing their experience with others, for information about the direction audio design is taking, and for the pleasure I experience from reading well crafted and thoughtful essays.

At the same time, I recognize that I would not enjoy reviewing if I did so feeling that at the end of a review I need to offer some putatively authoritative judgment about the worth or value of a particular component.  More importantly, I would have little useful to offer if I did.  Fortunately, for me, I have found something that suits my interests and competencies, that is true to my love of both music and audio and the role they both play in my life.  I am blessed by the fact that some readers find what I do interesting enough for me to feel good about sharing my thoughts.

 

Among biased reviews for maintaining publishing/ad revenues, reviewers with alternate music/listening sensibilities and a systematic approach to audio equipment, I cannot wholeheartedly agree with most reviews. 

There are some products I own that have had such universal acceptance and/or accolades that make their reviews worthwhile.  Two immediate products come to mind that I own -Topping D70s DAC and the Dynavector 20X2 cartridge.  The Denon 103 cartridge is certainly another with many optional alterations.  Show me one negative review of the Von Schweikert speaker line since it's inception.  

I've read so many reviews by esteemed reviewers and then audition their reviewed equipment at stores, homes, and mostly at audio shows (with their room/system limitations) that I generally cannot trust reviews unless I've heard the specific equipment in my home with my systems to make my own decision.  

My profile notes what I currently use and do not intend to change.  I don't swap out equipment often and am set for decades to come now with a near SOTA system. 

@bdp24 Wow, J. Gordon Holt. I did not consider him as much as a reviewer as the authority on sound reproduction. I am probably one of a few music lover audiophiles who when I had the opportunity, to install activated carbon bass filtering in my custom built listening room. It works too! He suggested it 40 or 50 years ago (I’m 68 and reading about audio as you have since my youth). I still enjoy reading about new products.

@john1 My neighbor owns YG Sonja 2.3s. After improving his power cabling to Grover Huffman and adding Westmister Labs REI amps, I truly enjoy listening to music in his system but with caveats. They are wonderful for pop music, vocals, small ensembles. They are not enjoyable to listen to orchestral music or heavy rock as they sound small. I used to dislike nearly everything he played prior to the new cabling and amps. I’ve previously heard 5 prior amps in his system and did not like any sound compared to my system. Now, I can relax to pop and vocals at his house. He likes laid back orchestral sound without large dynamic contrasts so these speakers are perfect for him.

Yes and no- complaining isn’t going to change anything.

A review is simply a data point, I do not nor think it wise to totally rely on it - more information including more favorable reviews which would lead me to think I’d likely get the same results, but no guarantees- different audio chains and personal preferences.  I find high value when the component is compared to other components - this allows me to determine some idea of value.

So no, not worth time or effort trying to police reviews for errors.  I’m simply pursuing better sonics while looking at new gear. 

I read TAS and S-phile for enjoyment, not to make purchase decisions from, with the exception of record reviews.