Proof of nothing this guy is a turkey big time.(gobble,gobble).
Do Audiophile Cables Matter? Here's PROOF!
I seriously doubt that this will make any difference to the naysayers. But here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC0s6KqQz3g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC0s6KqQz3g
123 responses Add your response
speedbump6, "Glupson, or maybe the nordst Odin, lolN80, why do you guys always take what was really said and turn it into something else." "N80 is the one I specified about changing what was said, but I guess you felt the need to show you had that ability also." Maybe it would be easier to comprehend your sentences if you did not mention two people in same sentence and then addressed only one of them with a plural ("guys"). It would also help if you separated words while writing. Aside of that, I did mention that people who do not desire Lamborghini exist with a caveat "unless it is a Marzal". Explaining that stylistic twist to someone with your writing skills would be way too complicated. Maybe next time. |
glupson, so now you’ve admired that you did not comprehend your own post, and that you did indeed say that you desired a lambo. I know it’s hard to face the truth sometimes, so thank you for owning up to it. Lol two left. It’s the small nuances like that which seem to escape the untrained eyes of a few. |
boxer12, You got it right. I was thinking of posting that to recent posters even geoffkait seems like a well-mannered reasonable debater with admirable writing proficiency. I will not say I miss him, out of some secret pride, but I do wish he came back. At least, he can put a decent sentence together most of the time. Regardless of the direction. |
:) I will sign.... His time to time annoyance is very much compensated by intelligence and wit.... And if someone try to listen to him he could be very helpful...Nobody is perfect.... :) I was worry about his health because it was not a guy to be easily annoyed by anybody and push to quit the forum... We live hard times... Stay safe.... |
@artemus_5 Yep... I was on that comment thread when Danny’s video had just come about. Long debates, apparently there are those that would rather decide for us that our heads are fooling our ears. It went back and forth. One referred to the Richard Clark double blind (kind of irrelevant as that would compare amps within certain distortion and output ratings) as evidence its “all in our heads”. Sad for them, really. |
I have shown a curiosity for Cables used in a System across the past few years. |
So Danny doesn’t know what he’s talking about suddenly? I don’t think it explains all the what’s and why’s, but does represent an example that cables can and do make a difference. There is a video I’ve posted a few times, even on one of genes videos that show a definite measured difference before and after a power conditioner by Puritan was added. Major difference in the measurements, something that gene has disputed and claimed to prove with measurements of his own. measurements don’t always show what the presenter claims they do, and ocd guy was using some of genes own type of measurements. Not one person ever responded to or had an answer to that video, which is rather unusual for that sight. They’re usually very vocal about how you didn’t do a blind test right, or the stars were out of alignment and therefore the results invalid. |
Audio is Alchemy...it all depends on so many factors; the equipment, room, speakers, local power quality, relative humidity, emotional state etc... Best advice is to try before you buy and keep both the emotional and technical bias out of your decision making. If you achieve your audio goal then enjoy! No need to adhere to someone else’s biased ideas of great audio. Trust yourself and use only a few favorite recordings to finalize your decisions. If you find yourself putting on more and more music just to hear how great it will sound on your rig, then you’ve probably nailed it. |
There are two separate issues here. The video demonstrates clearly that cables differently constructed allow/don't allow stray in, acting/not acting as antenna. What it doesn't demonstrate is how a poorly constructed cable acting as an antenna and transmitting an audio signal deleteriously affects that signal. |
Cables do matter.. Only price does little on how good the cable is or how they perform.. People are fooled all the time thinking the more you spend the better it is (for the most part).. Its the design of the cable that matters most.. Start with Mogami cables and use them as a reference when trying to upgrade.. Check out their measurements.. Follow their path.. |
The featured test has nothing to do with audio. It measures a relative inductance of the tested cables while dealing with ~100Mhz frequency and ~500uV signal level. Please make a few tight coils (around a pencil?) on the first tested cable (near the receiver input) and you will see a significant drop of the signal level due to a high-frequency choke you just created. My experience is clear: cables do matter but they also never act alone. Do you want to hear a cable difference? Use two clearly different sounding tracks (from two different recording studios) and two different audio cables to compare using a good-quality A/B switch. There is a good chance they will sound different, but not necessarily on both of those recordings. |
I've noticed a statistically significant difference in the 2 cable camps: 1. naysayers are almost always engineers, either professionally or via years of hands-on experience in labs, studios, etc. They understand intrinsically the scientific method as well as bias. They can also read scopes. 2.. "audiophile cable" supporters are rarely technical and have no formal training in engineering or the technical sciences, e.g., doctors, lawyers, accountants, business persons, and other generally hard workers that didn't have to go thru the pain of 30-page-long mathematics equations. They may be able to argue the merits of any amendment or perform a cardiac bypass but you ask them to program the clock on a VCR and you've essentially found their kryptonite. |
Jason, your powers of observation seem to be severely lacking if you believe that to be true. Obviously you are in your own camp two with your ability to observe. There could be another camp you missed.. Those ones look at things they can’t afford like lambos, and decide they have no redeeming value, not because of any scientific reasoning, only because they want to justify not spending. I suppose you could go on and on based on what one or two people claim or Dosnt claim, or make up categories based on your own apparent bias. Anyone reading just this thread will see many disaparities in your statement.Mb which is why most people who don’t deny there are differences will say you just have to listen. And because one cable works well in one system is not a guarantee it will match well and sound as good with a different set of components. |
jasonnewell ... naysayers are almost always engineers, either professionally or via years of hands-on experience in labs, studios, etc. They understand intrinsically the scientific method as well as bias. They can also read scopes ...You might want to read more carefully. While many cable deniers claim to be engineers, their renderings here often reveal that they’re not. And many who clamor for scientific double-blind testing, for example, are often exposed here as having no idea about how such testing is properly conducted. Unable to control their anger, some have even been banned from the group. I think you are mistaken to believe that anyone can "understand intrinsically" scientific method and bias. Knowing how to implement the scientific method is not intrinsic at all, but a learned skill. Part of that skill is understanding the many ways in which research can be compromised, regardless of the diligence of the scientist. It is very easy to get things wrong, it takes a lot of vigilance to get things right. |
jasonnewell The common denominator between the naysayer and the cables afficionados are for Jason their relation to numbers mesurements, positive for the naysayers, negative for the audiophile snake oil buyers... Simple measurement dont tell all the story... Life is not so easy my friend.... This is ridiculously simplistic, sorry... The cables problem is also linked to individual listening experience history, and to some audio system particular characteristics with too much parameters involved and non linearly measurable like room acoustics, mechanical resonance problems, and the general noise floor of the house and of the audio system... «Science is too much difficult to be understood by scientists only» -Groucho Marx « We need balls and heart and not only brain» -Harpo Marx « History of science IS Science» - Goethe (uppercases are mine) |
I was raised on Julian Hirsch "wire is wire", absolutely convinced for a good 20 years that my freebie patch cords were as good as it gets. Until one day I brought one of my freebie patch cords into a store and the owner let me compare side by side with something from XLO costing about $75. Which to me at the time seemed an absolutely insane amount of money. After listening to his very fine rig with the XLO I paused the player and plugged in my patch cord. Instantly it sounded like I had broken his stereo. It sounded just awful. I was convinced it was going to be hard to hear any difference and there I was not even making it back to the chair and the difference was hitting me upside the head like a two by four. Anyone who's listening skills are so dismal and their brain so defective they still want to argue this, they simply need to find another hobby. Because they suck at this one! |
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Mahgister gets it! Pertinent to this topic, I have been finalizing my cables for my current rig over the last year. I’ve learned to take my time and evaluate slowly and under various states of mind. My history with high end audio is fairly long and excessive. Entry level to uber expensive and all points in between. A couple of years ago I decided to re set things again without the influence of outside noise, i.e...magazines, online chatter or dealers. I have heard and lived with enough gear over the years to have a handle on what I need to be happy, so....I set a reasonable budget and attempted to bring a dynamic live sound to my den. Variables were to be few hence simplicity was to be the rule. At the heart would be my Krell Vanguard Digital Integrated Amp. So musical and full bodied with great extension. For a source, I wanted something reliable and capable of doing justice to my vast collection of CD’s and SACD’s. I chose the Yamaha CD S2100...neutral, accurate tone with great dynamic range and detail/extension. Most critical was my choice of loudspeakers. I wanted dynamics and headroom that could give me Club level sound while conveying accurate tone and musical expression. I chose JBL 4429’s mostly by gut instinct and a chance look at a MUSIC DIRECT catalogue. Most of my audiophile speakers over the years always seemed to be less than realistic sounding in the midrange and dynamics department. With a 60 day return option I figured why not try something different! Luckily, they won my heart fairly quickly with their buttery smooth dynamic midrange and extension. The “Vinyl “ sound was finally there, but with CD’s...hard to achieve these days. Last would be cables. Based on previous successes with certain designs, I wanted to get the power right first, so I went with a Transparent Gen 5 reference for my Yamaha to give my source the best power I could. My Krell has fairly good power regulation to begin with so I tried a few different PC’s and wound up with Anticables level 3 cord directly into the wall (it has its own filter). Cables have just recently settled out to being Anticables level 3 speaker cables with MIT Magnum Jumpers. Interconnects are Transparent Gen 5 Super Balanced interconnects, edging out the Anticables level 3 and 4 XLR’s. Stands for the JBL 4429’s are from Deer Creek Audio...an absolute must for these large bookshelf model monitors. Overall, the performance puts me in the venue with my favorite artists and does so while being faithful to the tone, dynamics and soundstaging inherent on the CD’s. |
My experience back in the early 80s was upgrading from zip cord to AudioSource speaker cable with braided flat small multi-conductor wiring. It was revelatory. Steakster - MasterBuilt Ultra is based on exotic formulation and assembly techniques developed for information transmission systems by aerospace engineers. Numerous high profile organizations, both government and private, utilize this design for mission critical applications. MasterBuilt Audio is the only company licensed to utilize this technology for commercial audio use. I have been a cable beta tester for a boutique manufacturer for over 2 decades. His speaker wire has only undergone about 4 or 5 changes in that time while his IC cables required at least 200 designs to get to his Empress and Pharoah line. I don't know if they would pass noise or filter highs. I just know that music is unaffected by the cable. They are patented air core insulated design without braiding and without individual conductor shielding. The design blocks noise though. See http://www.groverhuffman.com/ I haven't compared them to MasterBuilt, but the price difference is about 50X less expensive. We have compared them to many high end cables costing 3X to 20X more expensive. His Pharoahs are neutral sounding, without compression, without attenuation of any frequencies and extremely open sounding. |
Not all systems work with Shunyata conditioner or power wires. I use to have Jeff Rowland Model 12 Monoblock amplifiers with Cardis wiring and the Shunyata Hydra worked great. I had a lot of compliments from Doug Wilson himself who is a tube guy. Audio Research is his favorite brand. On the other hand, it does not work well with Cary Audio CAD805 AE (Anniversary Edition) Monoblocks. Mind you these amplifiers were not plugged into the Shunyata Hydra. They had their own dedicated lines. The preamps, CD Players, turntable was. That’s why I said what I said in the other thread. I’m currently using Chord Monoblock amplifiers with a Cary Audio SLP05 with the Ultimate upgrade but I’m currently using a Richard Gray 1200 and a PS Audio line conditioner. Speakers are Wilson Audio Maxx3. Turntable is Clearaudio Reference with a Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement Cartridge. Cables are Straightwire Crescendo. Another success with my system. When you can listen to your system for 4-8 hours and not feel fatigue, you did something right with your system. I have a question for all the naysayers. What XLR/RCA’s, speaker cable, and or power cable are you using? Are you using these with your audio system? Please see attachment; https://www.amazon.com/C2G-40464-Value-Stereo-Meters/dp/B0019MGITK/ref=asc_df_B0019MGITK/?tag=hyprod... |
I use the power and USB cable that came with my integrated amp. They were right there in the box I figured why waste them? I use the power cable that came with my streamer and ethernet Cat 6a not sure the name call it brand X. I don’t use any XLR or RCA cables though I did use some XLR from Benchmark at one time. Everything works, is that amazing or what! |
djones512,695 posts08-02-2020 6:58pmI use the power and USB cable that came with my integrated amp. They were right there in the box I figured why waste them? I use the power cable that came with my streamer and ethernet Cat 6a not sure the name call it brand X. I don’t use any XLR or RCA cables though I did use some XLR from Benchmark at one time. Everything works, is that amazing or what! I don’t doubt that your system sounds good. Having a integrated amplifier and a CD/streamer/DAC utilizing a USB can eliminate XLR/RCA’s from the system unless you are using a separate subwoofer. It’s a path to the least resistance. Good for you. A long time ago, I use to have an integrated amplifier. Times have changed and integrated amplifiers are making a strong comeback. I still prefer separates because I get to use the best of both worlds. Tube and solid state combined (preamp which is tube and power amp which is solid state). My system use to be all tube. I’m sure receivers will come back strong in the near future especially since the new generation is not as much into quality sound. Here is a flash from the past. Remember when Apple came up with the iPod? How many of us HiFi freaks hated anything to do with it. When Wadia came up with Digital 170IT we all acted like a bunch of school girls and jumped all over the iPod when we bought the Wadia docking station. Funny how things turn out. Hey, definitely enjoy your system. You seem very happy and at the end of the day, that’s what counts. Happy listening 😀 |
