Denafrips FPGA Firmware Update

@dandaroy I need to listen more (unrelated server issues have kept me from listening lately), but my initial impressions were different.  I found the sound slightly better, and no worse in any respect.  I guess YMMV, but, so far, I don't intend to revert to previous firmware on my Pontus II.

So for those that have updated the Venus II and have some time on them what are the changes to it? Any downgrade at all, excessive brightness or  sibilance?  I was hoping for a bit more transparency, maybe better bass control and soundstage improvements if any.

These FW updates are system dependent, involving the system synergy. You have to try it in your own system to know if it is an improvement or not. After the first 3 days, if you like it, then that is it and it will get even better after the burn in. However, if you don't like it, then that means your system can't take the advantage of the FW update. No problem, you can always go back to your original setup. It is just like any upgrade that all audiophiles do.

@jaytor Thanks for your input and information on your Terminator-Plus firmware update.  I have a Terminator-Plus however have not yet tried the firmware update. My system has a good deal of treble energy presently and what I really don't need is more of it.  I'm all for improvements in the soundstage, mid-range and other listening parameters.  It sounds like many are pleased with their other Denafrips DAC upgrades, but not much information on the Terminator-Plus that I could find.  Now that you've had some "miles" on it with the new upgrade, can you shed some light on   what you're hearing with the changes ?    Thanks !   John

@liquidsound - I've been using the NOS mode over the last couple weeks. Before the update, I thought NOS was too dull sounding, but I'm liking the way it sounds now.

However, I haven't done any critical listening since shortly after doing the upgrade because I sold my woofer towers and haven't finished the replacements. My mains (open baffle planar magnetic line arrays) only play down to about 170Hz and rely on separate open-baffle woofer towers for the bottom ~3 octaves.

I just picked up the cabinets, drivers, and amps this weekend so need to get them assembled and wired up - hopefully in the next few days.

@jaytor  Thanks for your quick response.  I have been using the NOS almost exclusively since I've had the DAC, so I look forward to your opinions on it with the firmware upgrade once you get your speakers back on place.

Regards,  John

@liquidsound I suggest you try it yourself. It is not hard at all, especially if you have a Mac laptop. Once I downloaded the firmware update tools, it took me less than 3 minutes to update my T-Plus to V3.7 and the same to revert it back to V1.0. To my ears, the sound of V3.7 is more detailed and focused with more texture and 3-dimentionality. Yes, there is more treble energy as far as I can tell. Also, the sound is not as lush and rich, and less forgiving (for bad recordings) as V1.0.

As I read through this thread I think the biggest takeaway is that ymmv.  My question is why have there been so many different versions of the updates in such a short time period? They just announced still another one for the Ares II/Enya. If Denafrips engineers cannot figure out what sounds best, how do the rest of us?

Good point! Speaking for myself, I was not looking for any change in sound as I am happy with the sound of the DAC as is. What prompted me to try the update is the claim by Denafrips that they fixed issues such as "audio latency", "phase difference between L/R channels", "buffer overrun/underrun due to the Source's Clock and the DAC's Clock differences", etc. I couldn't care less about what they did with "Optimized DSP to improve the sonic performance"... 

If it ain't broke,  don't fix it.

JMHO

Agreed. To make it worse, now my Iris DDC is no longer working properly with I2S output to the T-Plus DAC running updated fw V3.7. I was told by Vinshine that my DDC itself needed a firmware fix since it is "old" (bought new in Oct 2021!). Still waiting for that promised DDC fw fix...

I was hearing micro-distortions (which has been reported by some as well, not all) with the v1.4 in my Pontus II. I probably did not give it enough time for burn-in for the sound. I could not live with micro-distortions. 

I have a Pontus ll that is 2years old now. Have not updated the firmware. I love it's sound.

What the heck are micro distortions???

FWIW I found the v3.7 on my TP to be better than v1.0.  I also have an Iris that while if functions properly playing over I2S, I need to reset the pin out to switch between PCM and DSD.

I also found the USB is now better than the I2S (wasn't so with v1.0) so I am keeping v3.7.  I have a Lampizator Golden Gate and use that as a reference to judge the change from v1.0 to v3.7.  

I suggest giving it a try, but let it burn in for a few hundred hours before listening.

Also I was using NOS, now I find OS with sharp filter cleaner and more pleasing especially with 16/44 files.

@anzaanimalclinic Thanks for sharing your experience. I had reservations about TP running V3.7 fw at the beginning due to added brightness to my system even after hundreds of hours of burn-in, although it did give more details, focus, and transparency to the sound. A week ago I changed XLR IC from pure silver to copper (Oyaide TUNAMI TERZO XX V2), left it on 24/7 with V3.7. I listened to the system again this morning, it sounded much better, the brightness has been tamed. Yes, I also like the OS mode now as it is more dynamic and 3-D,  the sound in NOS mode in comparison is somewhat muddied and flattened.  I prefer slow filter for my system. It just sounds more natural.  This was done with USB connection only, I didn't compare with Iris DDC I2S connection since I don't like having to switch I2S settings between FLAC and DSD playback. I'll give the DDC away to a friend ;)  

I have a Terminator Plus.....tried every firmware available.....i was kind of happy with the latest firmware (3.7) as it was a mix of the first firmware and the 3.6 version........ but as many others, i have some micro distortions in the tweeter and mid drivers f my ATC50....not in all songs but i think was a random problem....burn in? maybe....but i could not live with those distortions....so I flashed with 1.0 and my dac came alive again!.....

if the micro distortions are a  common issue within many users why dont vinshine or denafrips check and correct this problem...i think they are doing many good things and i really appreciate that we can have the possibility of "playing" with different firmwares...but please you have to correct this kind of problems or else we will start to hate or dacs!!

rgds

FYI. Denafrips is still working on a fix for I2S in old DDCs that are not compatible with the DAC running updated firmware. It seems more complicated than updating DAC. Here is what Vinshine tech support said this morning:

"The latest DDC are already installed with the latest firmware update which includes similar i2s optimization as the 12th firmware for the DAC. As a result, the i2s will be compatible.

Regrettably, the firmware update process for the DDC is more complex compared to the DAC, primarily due to limitations imposed by chipset variants.

The firmware update process may not be straightforward, and it could potentially require a programming tool. This could make it more challenging for customers to perform the update on their own.

Consequently, we are still exploring for a feasible solution to get this fix. "

Maybe i missed it, is it possible currently to revert to the original firmware if needed? ( I have been sitting on the fence w.r.t the Venus update.)

@deep_333 - Yes, Alvin provides a link to the original firmware as well as the new updated firmware, so you can switch back if you aren't happy. 

@jaytor , thanks for clarifying.

@fthompson251

So for those that have updated the Venus II and have some time on them what are the changes to it? Any downgrade at all, excessive brightness or  sibilance?

Yes, as with all Denafrips DACs -- give the new firmware some weeks to fully burn in. No joke!

I was hoping for a bit more transparency, maybe better bass control and soundstage improvements if any.

All true and there. It is really a new DAC -- not entirely better in every department, but sure worth a try. Once you set up your computer, you can flash back and forth the firmware as you like - I spend several evenings A/Bing the both versions available for Venus at the moment.

@mr_m micro distortions are small static or zzz sound during playback that last much less than 1 second. As if the music distorts, but only very short duration. Happens randomly and infrequently and not repeatable. 

There is a new Venus II/12th firmware version V3.5 vs the "old" update V3.3. Has anyone tried it? Any comparison changes, vs V1 or V3.3?  We updated my Venus II to V3.5 yesterday and it's running non-stop now for burn in. My problem is I have no pre amp currently until mine gets back from repairs so I cannot listen to the changes.

Apologies for the long post but please bear with me.

I sidestepped the first FPGA update for my Venus II based on some negative comments and went straight to the more recent 3.5 release that had better user feedback. 

Update went ok and reported success but on reconnecting the DAC in my system i was greeted by a sound full of distortion, it was awful.  I use a Hermes DDC and I2S connection.

After panicking that something had gone horribly wrong i tried USB. All was fine so i breathed a relief that the FPGA update process wasnt the issue.  This led me to play around with I2S config on the Venus thinking there was a chance this may have changed or need resetting post update.  Dont recall seeing anything about this in the instructions.

On changing the I2S pin config on the Venus i found 3 settings that played without distortion, i am not sure what the original setting was on the Venus as it worked straight away with the Hermes without having to do any config changes.

The 3 settings that played without distortion all had vastly different sound characteristics, something i didnt expect.  One was devoid of midrange and bass and one bloated, thankfully the one was fine (011 if i recall correctly).

So if you are using I2S bear this in mind.  It may also help to have some guidance from @alvin1118 about this if possible.  I know HDMI cables can differ but didnt expect more than one setting to work.

In terms of the sound via 3.5 (and the better I2S config!) i can sum up the sound  -bigger, deeper, more decay and background detail, tighter and more detailed bass, better treble clarity and improved focus.  My jaw was on the floor with respect to the bass depth and transients, shockingly good.

There is a major downside that others have noted and that is instrument body, vocal feeling and emotion have disappeared.  This is a big issue as others have noted.

It was at this point my mind went back to when i first bought my Venus II, it was thin sounding and almost tinny at times, it nearly went back!  I was aware of extended burn in times so thankfully persevered to enjoy the gorgeous fleshed out sound i had prior to doing the FPGA update. 

This recollection got me thinking.  Posts are talking about burn in required after FPGA update.  Based on my recollection of the Venus sound when i first had it and how it developed over time, i believe the main components at play here are the oscillators and time to settle in to operating temperature and stability.  I am no expert in this but would seem feasible based on other posts re burn in.

The reason i mention this is whether others had to do what i did, disconnect and power down the DAC to perform the update.  I wonder if the posts specifying burn in being required relate to the oscillators having to re-stabilise after being powered down.  Just a thought based on my recollection of the out of the box Venus sound. 

I am hoping that the fleshing out experienced from new will happen again - if it does, even 50% of it back,  then this FPGA update would be nothing short of miraculous.

Update on last nights post. All was fine for the first hour, sound changed over the listening period with vocals defintely fleshing out more as time went on. That was until i started getting artefacts, especially on high dynamic swings, notably drum impacts and bass.

I played around with the I2S settings again, sometimes it would clear but not always. Checked cable connections, rebooted just about everything i could think of including the SoTM SMS200 Ultra (used as HQPlayer NAA, fixed volume with -3db, Sinc-M, LNS15 and 176.4K PCM - nothing too severe) and Antipodes CX. Again all was fine for a bit then artefacts returned. The only other item in the chain is an Audioquest Vodka HDMI 48K cable, all components the same as pre FPGA upgrade.

Mixed feelings when i ended the session, sound (when working) was damn close to what i would expect going from the Venus to Terminator, it was that good. Just need to bottom out the source of artefacts, will raise a call with Denafrips.

Anyone else had similar issues using I2S post v3.5 on a Venus II?

All I can say is prior to 3.5 update my Venus II was 000111 I2s setting. After the update it remained 000111 and I use a Tublus Argentus I2s cable. I have no preamp right now so I cannot listen but it registers as receiving the correct signal. (44.1 -1x)

The joys of digital audio! Turned everything off physically and powered everything back on starting with source and ending with DAC, to that point i had concentrated on rebooting DDC, SOTM NAA bridge and DAC not considering anything else in the chain. I have used the system all weekend without an issue. Why the Antiopodes source would be affected by changing I2S pin out on the DAC i dont know. Maybe something completely unrelated that coincided with changeing I2S. Keeping fingers crossed.

In terms of sound, Firmware update very positive in all areas but still lacking body in mids.  With all the issues i have had i havent really been able to let the system settle.  Intend to keep 3.5 on the Venus due to improvements in clarity, focus and scale/depth and hoping mids fleash out over time.

I just updated the firmware for my TII.  I am very pleased. There was an immediate improvement in the SQ.  I recommend doing the upgrade.  It was a challenge to get it done.  However, it has been worth the frustration. For you, computer whiz, I am sure it was a piece cake.

A quick update on the I2S connection issue for Iris DDC and T-plus running V3.7. Denefrips said they would no longer work on a firmware fix for the old (my bought in Oct 2021) DDC since it is replaced by the new 12th Ed. I bought a new Iris DDC 12th, installed it last night and tested for both PCM and DSD playback. It is now working perfectly via I2S connection to T-Plus running V3.7. The pinout configuration remains as 000, I did have to switch DSD right/left channel set up. Very happy with the sound so far, better than USB direct connection and also better than the old DDC I2S -> T-Plus running V1.0.. Will evaluate more after a few days.

@liangx5  Glad to hear you ended up better than you started with the new firmware and Iris 12th with I2S.

I sold my TP and Iris due to the conflict between the two and because I had purchased another DAC.  I recently purchased another DDC and am using SPDIF on BNC connectors.  The BNC connection sounds fundamentally different than the USB from the TP or my new DAC and also similarly different from the I2S sound.

I wish I had tried the SPDIF before selling the Iris now.  It took a few weeks for the BNC to settle to its best but I knew right away I preferred it to USB.  The only downside is no DSD and max rate is 192.

I don't understand the differences between synchronous and asynchronous but I am now a believer that converting USB or Ethernet with a DDC is beneficial.

​​​​​​

I recently installed the 3rd version (version 3.5) of the firmware update for the Venus II 12th anniversary. This one is supposed to flesh out the midrange and upper bass a bit. So far, I really like - I think the folks as Vinshine really nailed it.

I will say that it took a bit of emailing back and forth to Vinshine to make the update work on my mac - there was something wrong in the file name when I tried to run the install file. BUT - now that it's fixed, I can say really worth the effort. 

Only a few hours in but my impressions are that the mid range does indeed feel a bit more warm and dense. The clarity and detail are still there, but the sound is a bit  more rich, which is what I like. 

One interesting takeaway from this is that the FPGA chip that drives a DAC does in fact do something akin to equalization. That is, it must be giving some kind of weight to different frequencies when decoding the digital file, and I bet that all DACs do this to some degree, but the companies don't want to publicize this much as they know many audiophiles view any kind of equalization as a mortal sin.

What do folks think??

@liangx5  It was very interesting reading your results with' the iris and t+.  I recently read a review by another iris/t+ owner that had a different outcome.  I don't remember which update he did but after the update he sold his iris and went back to usb direct saying that sq was better using usb without the iris. I'm about to buy a t+ and will be going from an Aurender streamer via usb directly to the t+  i'm going to try to find the review i mention to see what version update was used and for that matter that I didn't misunderstand what he said to begin with.  I guess like the old saying goes, ymmv:-).

@marco1 Was that also Iris DDC 12th? The version of DDC could make a difference, I think, since the new 12th has some improvements e.g. power supply, new FPGA chip, etc. I could not compare the two DDCs since the old one is not compatible with my T+ after updating to firmware V3.7. I also remember hearing improvements over USB direct when I first installed the old Iris DDC 2 years ago, that time my T+ was running on V1.0 fpga firmware. BTW, I have clock sync set up so the DDC is using T+'s OCXO clock instead its internal TCXO clock. 

@liangx5  Can't answer that.  Still trying to find what I read 🤔

Found it!  He did not have the 12th version of the iris or T+.  So the upshot sounds like pre 12th versions the units were not compatible.  So Denafrips re-engineered and now they are.  Well that’s progress for you.

Seems like things are stabilizing now which is great in terms of the latest firmware updates across the models.

For those with Terminator Plus and have done the update, how do you like it with some more listening time?

@christianb5s4 Check out this site for opinions from some T-plus owners.

My experience was similar. I had reservations at the beginning because of added brightness, also didn't like the fact that I had to switch to USB direct due to incompatibility with my Iris DDC. Burning in did help with the brightness issue, but I was still not completely happy till I installed the latest Iris DDC 12th last week.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/terminator-plus-fpga-firmware-upgrade-review.36987/

Been listening to latest v1.4 on my Pontus II. Glad with the sound, but irritated with the micro fast forwards I am hearing with CDP playback. Happens intermittently and infrequently, but every once in while the song will fast forward a few sec and I know it is not the CD laser.

Sorry to hear about the issues and mixed results; most seem to be associated with the higher end DACs and DDC interactions. My experience is based on the relatively simple update on an Ares ii. My experience was very successful. Aside from some minimal confusion on my part as I stepped through the pretty well done instructions everything went smoothly and was successful. I haven’t had a lot of time with the updated Dac but I’m enjoying the sound. 
 

I have to say that I’ve had very responsive help from the Denafrips staff (given the time zone lags). I believe they are passionate about providing the best support and sound quality possible with their products. I purchased my Ares ii used and they have treated my questions as if I was a major customer. Very happy with my Dac for my investment. 

Denafrips is great. I applaud their efforts! TRULY! 👍🏼
My experience was not good…part of that is perhaps me and my tastes, abilities etc.

I downloaded the first new firmware offering for my Pontus II at it’s release date....The process is a chore for me..iMac..no laptop. I have to take the DAC out of a stack in an enclosed cabinet (hassel #1) , then take it to my office and hook it up to my iMac (hassel #2), and then with my lack of computer skills do something that is very uncomfortable for me…download and install new firmware. Stressful considering the "brick" possibility. After a number of false starts I was able to do this (hassel #3). Reinstall into my stack in my enclosed cabinet (hassel #4). Then listening a lot and believing "for me and my system" the highs got brittle (silk dome tweeters) with much of my music (hassel #5)…This is the worst one…believing the burn-in nonsense..thinking it would change over days…a week (hassel #6)…no change for me. I have at least $25K invested. My system is resolving, but NOT bright….but the sound stayed bright.

This was SUCH a waste of time “for me"…then…I had to wait for the original firmware to be made available from Denafrips (hassel #7). Then repeat hassles 1, 2, 3 & 4 above. LOL! Bringing me to ELEVEN hassles…but let’s make it an even dozen 😀 as I had to listen again and make sure that the sound that I love was back. It was. NO BURN-IN. 👉🏼😁 (BTW…I do believe in burn-in for components and speakers. These DACs when new need burn-in , for example…but I found there to be no change after firmware install over time in my well used Pontus II "for me").

THEN… Denafrips released the next new firmware…which was received better by more listeners…but…I just couldn’t go thru the dozen hassles! 😂💦

Tarun, The British audiophile told me that it’s worth the hassles ….but nah. Perhaps in a moment of insanity I might give it a go. LOL!

I do think it’s great that Denafrips did all this work…and in practice has offered different firmwares for different sounds to tweak their WONDERFUL DACs!

I ordered a pair of Grant Fidelity Treasure Globe 6SN7s for my preamp instead. Fewer hassles, hopefully more enjoyment. Definitely a meaningful burn-in process there…We’ll see! 🤷🏻‍♂️