Updated the firmware on my Ares 2 and Pontus 2 today. Both updates were pretty easy. The actual firmware update took less than a minute on my MacBook Pro. Overall the sound quality on both was better, maybe more so for the Ares 2. Hearing a little more detail in the music and imaging is better and soundstage is a little wider. Very happy with the firmware update.
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I'm part of a Denafrips group on FB and the Pontus updates seem to be getting a much higher percentage of mixed reviews after the firmware update than the Ares II. I'm now really curious to see how things play out as the upgrade is released to each successively better DAC. I'm wondering if the Ares II is at a perfect level where the differences are heard almost entirely as an improvement, but the more resolving the DAC (and likely overall system) is the more the differences will less obvious and rely more on listener preference. It's possible that the differences become more significant and as a result sound more like a new product than an upgrade to the current one. |
I ran the upgrade on my Pontus II yesterday. Process was smooth - just carefully follow the directions. I am very happy with the results - a definite bump in detail and imaging. Bass is a bit more articulate. I added the Iris DDC to my setup in December, connecting to the Pontus via I2S. That was a very nice upgrade. It's still early, but I feel the firmware upgrade was an improvement almost as much as adding the Iris. |
I also did the update yesterday on MacBook Pro w/Ventura. I am a complete and total idiot when it comes to a computer! I managed to figure it out in about an hour, give or take. Didn't run a timer. I would imagine it would take the average person 10 minutes maybe? I am pleased with the update. I had tremendous snaps when resolution changed. I have not experienced a single one yet today!!! I won't yet comment on the potential "improvements" as I will need a few evenings to be sure. So far I am very happy with the results! Thank you to Alvin and the Vinshine/Denafrips Team! J.F. |
I am a happy owner of Ares II and Pontus II DAC's. Ive updated the FPGA code on Ares II in March, and right after the update I was able to feel the difference. I was a bit skeptical about the update, and I was thinking that I would not feel much difference if compared to the original FPGA firmware that came with the Ares II. I was wrong!! The new firmware improved the sound quality, and now I can hear more details from the music. Clearer high's and better vocals. I was considering selling my Ares II, but with the updated FPGA code, I have decided keeping it with me. The update for the Pontus II became available 2 days ago, and I've installed it. Like in my Ares II the sound quality improvement was easily noticeable. Bass is more firm and solid, at a point that I had to lower the volume in my sub. Vocals are nicer. It became a bit brighter, but not at a point that it is fatigue, and because of that, some people might not like it. According to Vinshine, it is recommended to perform a burn in due to the new logic in the FPGA. Overall, I am happy with the new FPGA code, and I would do it again if I had a Pontus II with the original FPGA code version. Several fixes were implemented and I don't which one improved the soundstage; it is more precise now. Just a small note, the update instruction for Mac, provided by Vinshine is based on an older version of iOS, and users who have the latest version Ventura, the pictures don't match, but it is not difficult to figure out how to proceed with it. Thanks for the exceptional support from Alvin and Vinshine !! Excellent post sales support, which is rare nowadays. |
@dskusa - "According to Vinshine, it is recommended to perform a burn in due to the new logic in the FPGA." Can you provide a source for this? I was so hopeful that I'd finally found something that audiophiles could agree didn't benefit from a burn in. Now the walls are closing in around me like I'm a visitor at ADX Florence. |
I’ll second what other users have said in regards to the effects of the Pontus II update: I noticed increased clarity and more detail right away. The bass may be firmer and perhaps lessened a tad. Someone else mentioned a brighter sound and that may result in a perception of lighter bass. The sound may have lost a smidge of the organic feel at the expense of detail but I enjoy the detail. We’ll see how much the sound changes with break-in but I’m happy I did the upgrade. Make sure you download the latest version of all files vs using what you may have installed from a previous firmware update as my upgrade process failed at the last step until I installed the latest software versions.
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After reading some saying a little brighter and not as organic has anyone decided to hold up on the update? I was planning on doing an update on my Pontus 2 this weekend but may hold off until more have spoken up on their results. I’m very happy with the detail and bass I’m getting now if I need more Im guessing I can change out cables or tubes. Gaining better bass and sound stage is very appealing but if at the cost of losing it’s natural presentation it is a concern for me. I’m sure there is no going back after update. |
I updated my Pontus II the other day. I'm still on the fence regarding the sound change. Seems like there's been a significant boost in treble. I'm getting glitches that sound like a brief skip that didn't happen before the update. It happens when playing a playlist of mixed tracks and consistently at the 10 to 12 second mark. Happens with my WiiM Pro connected by coax as well as my Primare NP5 connected with toslink. Decreasing the volume didn't help.
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I have a Pontus II in my secondary system which I did the recent FPGA firmware update for and I found the sound quality changes to be sweeping improvements. Very happy with it, and hearing similar results in quality to what most here have been saying. I'm using the NOS mode now instead of the OS mode because it sounds good. Has it been confirmed by Vinshine Audio that this DAC now features a true non-oversampling mode with the recent firmware update? |
I just updated my Pontus II that was running with a Lumin U1 Mini. It used to make a popping sound once in a while and now that is gone. In addition the overall sound is noticeably better. The software and driver install was a PITA in Windows. Ended up doing it on a Mac which was a little easier process. |
I haven't heard a difference from the upgrade on my Ares II. Denafrips confirmed I did the upgrade successfully, and said it may take time to "burn in" (really? firmware? I find that hard to believe, although the fact that the DAC had to be powered down to do the update could have a short-term effect until it warms back up.) I've enjoyed a wide and deep soundstage from the Ares II before the upgrade; having Apogee Duetta II planar speakers helps in that department (even the height of the soundstage is excellent). I've listened to familiar hi-rez classical Qobuz files from my Bluesound Node (the current version) and familiar classical SACDs and well-recorded CDs. The rest of my system is quite high-quality if somewhat vintage, if you check out my system. Congrats to those of you who have benefited from the upgrade. I am going to try an AudioQuest power cable with the Ares II--I expect that could make a clear difference that the firmware upgrade didn't. |
paulcreed455 posts After reading some saying a little brighter and not as organic has anyone decided to hold up on the update? I was planning on doing an update on my Pontus 2 this weekend but may hold off until more have spoken up on their results. so… yeah…I updated last Sunday…strictly for the improved sonics, as I had no tech issues…and after listening extensively…for me…I am experiencing greater clarity…some positives…but as of right now there can be a glassiness in the highs. Symbols sound better but the overall sound in the highs with certain recordings can be synthetic sounding… The DAC NEVER had this quality before. There Is a discussing going on at Head-Fi about this. Many of us are having the same experience. A member there has talked with Alvin and said that we can return our DACs to the previous firmware. I am going to give mine some more "burn-in" and see if the sound changes…but if not I am going to reload the old firmware. That thread is here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/denafrips-fpga-firmware-update-12th-anniv.967375/page-7 |
@bobo1000 I am exactly in the same boat with you: the experienced “glassiness” and the will to wait for burn in and see the improvements. If not, then I wish to go back to the previous firmware. |
I communicated with Alvin last week and he told me all Denfrips products are currently shipping with the latest firmware.What I’d be curious to know is if folks who purchased a Pontous 12th in the FB group are experiencing the same issue with the glassiness and synthetic sound? If not it could be the firmware isn’t playing nice with some aspect of the pre-revision hardware. The good news is we can revert to the old firmware in many cases that is not possible; also Alvin is a stand up guy he’ll make things right. |
Yeah…I luckily have another decent DAC to compare the updated Pontus to side-by-side. My Marantz SACD 30n has a Burr/Brown chip based DAC/streamer which is on the warm side. Unusual for a chip-based DAC, but true. It can lack detail though in that warm ness. I am definitely getting a colder rendering by my Pontus now. It used to reveal more detail than my Marantz..and never sounded synthetic or edgy like it can now. |
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I have the Marantz 6006CD and one of things I like most about it is the warm tone but it does lack some detail so your ears are not playing tricks on you.I perfer to use it stand alone,most of my CD’s are jazz and vocal and I perfer the warmer sound playing directly from the Marantz and bypassing my Ares II in the system it is built around. Burr/Brown chips in some componets still have the "magic" if you like a smooth sound. |
Thanks for the confirmation. I am getting a little buggy with all of this listening. Glad to hear that you have the same perceptions as me. Seems that there are a lot of us hearing this synthetic, glassy sound in the highs. Perhaps some systems do not resolves enough to perceive what we are hearing. I am not buying that as my system is VERY on the warm side. ...but who knows. LOL! Yes...you have me thinking..what do the new DACs (12ths) sound like now. This gives me pause. |
I updated the firmware 3 days ago and it sounded much better than before. The tonal balance is much better from top to bottom. The bass used to be a little heavy comparing to my other dacs, Chord TT2 and Merason Frerot (BB chip based). I am very happy with the new firmware upgrade. The detail and sound stage have also improved noticeably. As far as the synthetic, glassy sound in the highs, I do not experience that. It is maybe due to the warm sounding of my tube preamp, tube power amp, and speakers. My front end: LHY SW-8 -> Lumin U2 mini (via Roon) -> Titan Helen (via Wireworld Platinum Coaxial) -> Pontus II (via Wireworld Platinum I2S) |
My system is as follows: Qobuz via Ethernet =>Pi2 Design Mercury Streamer=> I²S =>Pontus II =>XLRs =>Schiit Loki Max => XLRs => Schiit Freya+ Preamp => McIntosh MC152 Power Amp => DynAudio Contour 20s, w/Stereo REL T/5x Subs using REL’s proprietary hi output lines directly off the speaker outputs from the power amp..subs are tuned way back to be "invisible" to blend-in the lower freq. when the recording calls for it. 😎 |
I tried it with IFi Zen Stream -> Pontus II (via usb) this late morning. It sounded very good too. So far I only put about 20 hours after the update. I also need to mention that the articulation of the mid has improved. It added more emotion to the vocal. Before the update, the Pontus II was well behind the Merason Frerot. But, It is very musical now. So, the update has been very positive for me. (Denafrips did ask me to send a screen shot to confirm a successful update.) |
For those that don't understand "burn-in" it is a real thing I have experienced and measured. I have measured the changes in speakers, resistors, capacitors, etc. after significant use and they all had minor to major changes. The firmware itself doesn't need to be burned in, but the resistors in the ladder do. The volts and amps across them will change the physical properties. HOWEVER, since all electronics with the same spec on paper can vary based on the +/- tolerance there can be subtle to major differences. The system as a whole will adjust based on the actual values. So, some people may not experience burn in because it was already so close to where it needed to be already. But others will hear vast improvements over time because it did need to change to handle the new volt/amp differences. To be clear, I don't completely understand it, but have observed it making and repairing audio equipment and speakers. I started my career as an electronic tech before getting a degree in software so I have just enough knowledge and experience to say this. There are others that have much more knowledge about this with many different opinions because not all of it can be explained. But in the end it is all about your experience with what you have. Is it brining you the joy in listening you want? If not, then you have to continue your journey regardless of this little nit |
kengt"However, if you still have the synthetic, glassy sound in the highs after the burn in. you then really need to contact Denafrips. I believe they would like to hear from you about your issues. Especially, you didn’t have that problem before the update." OH…Vinshine will hear from me, as I would be requesting a download of the old firmware for my FPGA chip. 😁 There is a thread over on Head-Fi regarding all of this where quite a few are experiencing a similar experience as myself. 300 hrs. of burn-in has been mentioned? 😳 One member, José has confirmed that we can revert (via a conversation with Alvin), and he will be doing that ASAP and said he would report his experience. So…I am going to sit tight for the time being, have a little patience and see how this all develops. It’s all a massive luxury issue! 🙃 |
I would like to start by thanking Alvin and Vinshine Team for their hard work and support. Consider the hundreds/thousands of units sold across the world, firmware update program across product lines is a daunting task. And to top off their commitments towards their users, this is provided free of charges regardless of how they were purchased. My hats off.
This firmware update process is well documented and relatively painless even to computer illiterates like me. Only suggestion is to start the instruction off by the On-line request first. Placing this in the third step could be confusing for some. This should be done before any computer setup or configurations.
Unit I have is Pontus II (PII) in my secondary system. As for the initial impression, pre-12th, I prefer oversampling in my system. With NOS, there were traces of roughness around the lower treble and space between images. With OS, it sounds as if the overall picture was finely polished. For those who doesn’t believe precise image is natural in life performance, do yourself a favor and attend some life un-amplified performance sitting at the best center seat. This is what the Pontus II mimics with the right system.
It’s been 8 days since the firmware update and the PII had throughly warm up. First couple of days of listening was surprisingly disappointing. The crystal clear highs and transparency dropped a few notch. Room signature of original recordings were suppressed and everything sounded a bit congested. Few days ago, I switch to NOS mode and there reveals the answer, OS is better pro-12th in my system. As of last night, this is the best this system had ever sounded. Glassy highs reported elsewhere here is not founded, but instead teary eyes. Comparing to pre-12th OS mode, the stage opened up another 10-15%. Tonal balance is ruler flat from bass up. Transient attract, though not world class, is quick and impactful. No highlights across the entire spectrum. Transparency is close to top notch equaling my previous reference/Berkeley. Can’t comment on low bass because my PII isn’t handling due to unique configuration in my systems. Off stage and deep stage images are more palpable. Room acoustic captured in good recordings are better reproduced.
Overall, this firmware update brings my system another notch closer to my reference system. Just a note, the PII is driving my baby Boulder/Kharma direct with no preamp in between. The low base was handled through DEQX and a pair of power subwoofers. Henceforth, I can’t comment on PII’s sub-40hz performance.
Above observation was made through my modest system. Should this not be similar to your findings, I hope it’s at least entertaining.
Best Regards Mosler666 |
After listening for about a week post-update I’ve decided to request the old firmware. While the level of detail and clarity has nicely improved the sound is now leaner and less analog. I feel like some of the weight and body has been lost in favor of focus and detail. Hopefully it’s not an issue to get the old firmware restored. I truly appreciate all Vinshine Audio does for its customers (and Alvin is the best) but to my ears the update isn’t desirable. If there’s a process to restore the old firmware then it’s a risk-free trial to see what works for you. |
I’m going to sit back and wait a few months till the dust clears. Plays nice music in current form. To many different versions of everyone’s results. I will probably leave it as is, no upgrade. There would have to be 100% way to go back to stock form to even consider upgrade. Would there be a small percentage of these dac’s that can never go back to stock form? |
I shared my desire to revert to the old firmware with Vinshine and here’s what they said: Our goal is to have the best of both worlds - New firmware with bugs fixed, as well as to preserve the sound quality that DENAFRIPS is known for - ability to reproduce music very much 'analog-like', and improve it further. We are working with DENAFRIPS on this. We aim to release a new firmware for Pontus II (EP4CE6F) in approximately 7 days to achieve that. Thank you, Vinshine!!! |
Besides the burn in, there are still other issues needed to be considered, such as system synergy and weak link in the system. The new firmware may not be the weakest link in your system. Or, it may just be not suitable to your system. And, if you don’t try you will never know. I would say "Take this opportunity. It is free of cost. :) My highest appreciation to Denafrips and Alvin. |
fanofmsu3 posts I shared my desire to revert to the old firmware with Vinshine and here’s what they said: Our goal is to have the best of both worlds - New firmware with bugs fixed, as well as to preserve the sound quality that DENAFRIPS is known for - ability to reproduce music very much 'analog-like', and improve it further. We are working with DENAFRIPS on this. We aim to release a new firmware for Pontus II (EP4CE6F) in approximately 7 days to achieve that. Thank you, Vinshine!!! Hi …Did Alvin tell you this today? |
Besides the burn in, there are still other issues needed to be considered, such as system synergy and weak link in the system. The new firmware may not be the weakest link in your system. Or, it may just be not suitable to your system. And, if you don’t try you will never know. I would say "Take this opportunity. It is free of cost. :) My highest appreciation to Denafrips and Alvin."
Totally agree! I have seen enough positive responses not to be tempted to give it a try. The bad news for me is that my T-Plus is the last one in line to get updated, the good news is that hopefully by then they would have already learned and come up with a better/improved firmware :)
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Besides the burn in, there are still other issues needed to be considered, such as system synergy and weak link in the system. The new firmware may not be the weakest link in your system. Or, it may just be not suitable to your system. And, if you don’t try you will never know. I would say "Take this opportunity. It is free of cost. :)
Totally disagree! My system is performing amazingly and I have all my other digital sources to confirm it. Up until the FW update, the Pontus II had some advantages on sound quality but now it is simply the worst I ever had: flat, tiresome and not engaging at all. Before was sublime. Changing my system to pursue the dac “new sound” seems really absurd to me. |
Have a Pontus II. Downloaded and installed configurator as per the instructions and the USB driver as well..Device manager showed the DAC and the USB lib as described in the instructions. I started the firmware flash and got an Xbitblaster error that just went on and on...DAC is bricked now. Wont turn on. Any ideas? |
If it is bricked…you will have to send it down to Todd in Texas (if you are in The U.S.A.). I have dealt with him…he is super professional, with fast turnaround….but you may want to wait and see if there is a second firmware release before doing that. I think right now, that Alvin is overwhelmed (and possibly Todd), but he will get back to you. Definitely. Vinshine is a good group of people! We are all going to need a bit of patience, right now. |
@audiofilo123 "Auralic Aries Femto connected with Audioquest Carbon USB and Belden 8402 from the dac to the amp." "After some listening hours I get the impression that, despite the enhanced soundstage and definition, there is also some kind of artificiality to the sound. ------------- I have 3 streamers, Auralic Aries Femto, Ifi Zen Streamer, and Lumin U2 mini. The Auralic has been with me the longest time. Ifi Zen is just for curiosity. And at last, the Lumin is serious and mature. It is more analog sounding, relax and musical. It will take the full advantages of the firmware update. Good luck and good listening :)
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My Pontus II has the EP4CE22F chip and this is welcome news. I too feel that while the new firmware has added some clarity and details that the treble does sound a little more prominent and there is a loss of some overall weight to the sound. As someone else said, I swear I sense a bit less soundstage depth now as well. I still sense layering but seems like the stage overall is less deep? Also, I’m now getting a pop/skip via coaxial from my Zen Stream a few seconds into every track and I let Denafrips know this. Really looking forward to this potential new update for Pontus II EP4CE22F chip owners. |
@audiofilo123 "Changing my system to pursue the dac “new sound” seems really absurd to me." ------------------- I would have to agree with you on this. Now it comes to the realization of whether the new dac sound is actually an improvement to your system. This would be the system synergy. To me, the updated firmware is great. It leaves us with a lot of potential. :) |
From what I read in HeadFi forum, apparently Denafrips are aware of the complaints and diligently working on releasing new firmware updates for Pontus II with both EP4CE22F and EP4CE6F chips. We shall see... Anyways, I have never seen such an active interaction between a manufacturer and audiophile community... simply amazing. |
Yeah, it's pretty awesome. I'm following the discussions at other forums as well. Denafrips is great. To the point mentioned earlier, I have also started taking some measures to voice my system due to the change and for now have simply moved some power cords around. Most notably I had a power cord with Rhodium plated copper plugs on the Pontus II and decided to use a cord (same design) with pure copper plugs to offset some of the high frequencies and bring back a bit more warmth. If there is a way for them to bring back the tonality with a bit more warmth/fullness/natural high end, but with the clarity and detail of the new update, that would be great. |
