Curl or Pass

All the feedback is much appreciated!

Dougthebiker

Another XP-15 owner here -- I've had mine for ~3 years now, and it's definitely a keeper.

On a side note, I have read the XP-17 replacement is a bit quieter still, but also a shade cooler. Take that for what you will.

I would not trade my XP-15 for a JC3+, though I am sure it's also a very good phono preamp.

Do I still lust for a Herron Audio VTPH-2A? Absolutely.

Will I get one? Probably...

I had a Mark Levinson JC 1 or 2, whgichever was battery powered.  I kept my Audire, but the other was equally as good.  I don't think anyone should be anal enough to worry about either designer.  They are both excellent, but Probably Nelson.  He has a great attitude.  Of course JC designed the crossovers and controls for the greatest system ever:  Google:  Dead's Wall of Sound, Images.  30+ McIntosh amps and zillions of dedicated JBL drivers, including a separate system for each of the five bass strings.  Nearly unmeasureable IM distortion, even from the speakers. 

@wspohn wrote:

"I like both, but IMHO neither attains the level of Curl's older Vendetta design (I don't believe that the parts are available to replicate those, although a variant was used in the CTC Blowtorch preamp."  

Completely agree.  JC's Vendetta series are very good.  Might be his life's very best work. 

Some of the FET-based designs suffer from short-cuts in the modern FET manufacturing process.  

I like both, but IMHO neither attains the level of Curl's older Vendetta design (I don't believe that the parts are available to replicate those, although a variant was used in the CTC Blowtorch preamp.

I would also recommend Herron, occasionally come up used around your budget. Check with Herron dealers; they may offer a discount on new units.

I am a MI guy and love my Icon Audio PS2 pure tube phono section. 

Herron, Manley, Sutherland, PS Audio, Pathos Acoustics, Zestos Audio, Gold Note, 

@dougthebiker wrote:

On another note, I’ve never heard of Herron or Tom Evans.  Where could I find some reviews of those?

Dougthebiker


Wow.  You're planning to spend a couple thousand dollars and you haven't even done any basic research into alternatives?  

Do a basic search on "Herron Audio" and "Herron Audio reviews" to get a little background.  Herron Phono stages are legend in the vinyl community.

@dadork, @liamown, @siamo shall we not all kiss and continue being a happy family?

Pass.
On both.

I usually can’t stand George’s posts

Luv you too!

  I’ve never heard of Herron or Tom Evans.  Where could I find some reviews of those?

Have you ever used a search engine?

I usually can’t stand George’s posts, but he’s not wrong here. I use my Nelson Pass designed Adcom GFP-750 in passive mode every day with a 4v XLR output from my DAC and as the Mandalorian’s would say “This is the way”.


As for “Curl vs Pass”, I’m not touching that one. I have a Pass X5 that I love and I own multiple JC pieces it Parasound gear that I also love. 

I’ve never heard of Herron or Tom Evans.

Here's one I'm sure there are other, from what my vinyl customers tell me.
https://forums.whathifi.com/threads/review-tom-evans-audio-design-mastergroove.72863/

Cheers George

Thanks for all the great feedback.  I always appreciate the help, even when a few fistfights break out.  Kind of like a hockey game.

On another note, I’ve never heard of Herron or Tom Evans.  Where could I find some reviews of those?

Dougthebiker

@bpoletti I agree. And by doing so completely negate my previous post. However, Herron products are a cut above.

For the price point your using, there are other phono stage designs that you might find a little better.  One might be a Herron VTPH-2A.  Maybe a few dollars more, but not significantly so on the used market, if you can find one.  

The title is somewhat odd as Nelson Pass doesn’t design phono preamps

The comment is somewhat odd as the company he founded that is named after him sells phono preamps.

The title is somewhat odd as Nelson Pass doesn’t design phono preamps

Lol neither! 

Anyhow, there are several wonderful options alongside the Parasound and Pass. As to the latter two, you can't go wrong with either. It all depends on how much flexibility you want. Yet I went from a highly-rated, well-reviewed, uber-flexible phono pre to a "here's what you get" phono pre and the difference with the latter was phenomenal no matter what cartridge and combo I threw at it.

@clifffff   So true. I hate when someone chimes in with a product completely unrelated to the OP's original question. Yes, sometimes there's a serendipitous discovery (e.g. I never would have fallen in love with my Spatials had someone not recommended them as a Product Z suggestion), but still - just stay in your lane.

Your welcome.

Cheers George 

George,

Thanks for the responsive post. 

Best Regards

And your response here makes you the perfect example.

That’s right, I didn’t start this, I was being responsive to your bs abuse you tried to put on me and my product, even though it wasn’t mentioned originally by me.


dougthebiker : I was steering you to a very very good Phono stage in the Tom Evans range, that have so much gain there is no need for an active pre, a passive will do, and the money saved on not buying an active pre can maybe put toward Tom Evans flagship phono stage.

Nelson Pass:

“We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More source gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.

Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away source signal level so that a subsequent active preamp gain stage can make it back up."

With added noise and distortions.

Nelson Pass:

"Routinely DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a volume control.

What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.

And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp.”

Cheers George

@georgehifi“You are blind to what I said. It then saves the owner then paying $$$$ for a useless line stage preamp.
I’m not telling him to purchase a Lightspeed, a simple $49 Schiit Sys passive would then do, get off your "active preamp pedestal".”

And your response here makes you the perfect example. Instead of being responsive to the question from the OP, you just want to campaign your agenda, and when you get called on it you just continue to campaign your agenda, and try to misinform regarding my agenda or pedestal. 

By the way, I am on the “Please try and give a responsive answer to the OP pedestal”

Have a great day!

The @georgehifi post is a perfect example. George loves the Tom Evans phono stages because he "Has models that have big gain so you only need a passive pre to go with them" and George sells Passive preamps.

You are blind to what I said. It then saves the owner then paying $$$$ for a useless line stage preamp.
I’m not telling him to purchase a Lightspeed, a simple $49 Schiit Sys passive would then do, get off your "active preamp pedestal".

Love the Parasound JC3+ and the JC 3 jr
You would be doing yourself an Injustice if you don’t give the PS Audio a look and listen. IMO it is one of the best I have heard. Keep in mind my system. Clear audio Concept with concept moving coil cartridge Krell KRC-3 Krell KSA 200s
 B&W 805n speakers Transparent Super Speaker cable, Transparent Premium power cords, Furman Elite- 15 PF I  For all equipment except KSA 200s all interconnects Mogami studio gold

While I agree that these types of questions often result in posts going off topic quickly, how many people are going to have owned the exact two items someone is asking about? 

I don't know about most people, but I don't usually make a sideways move when I replace equipment.  There's a much better chance that someone would have experience comparing the difference between a $500 phono stage to a $2000 phono stage than what two similarly priced and performing items sound like.

I am with @clifff on this even if he had one post. He may have been lurking for some time, who knows.

The @georgehifi post is a perfect example. George loves the Tom Evans phono stages because he "Has models that have big gain so you only need a passive pre to go with them" and George sells Passive preamps.

Someone asks a question and the responses are so off topic it's crazy.

OP, Sorry about the rant. It would be a better site if posters could get answers to their questions instead of posts from brand name campaigners.

dadork71 posts
@clifff How does anyone with three post say "for the umpteenth time!"

He's establishing himself early....

Anyway, I have the Pass XP-15 and use it with a tube preamp and amps.  They sound great, and the Pass does have a lot of flexibility with mm and mc cartridges.  That came in very handy when I switched from mm to mc when I upgraded my turntable.  Could not be happier with the Pass Labs XP-15, and could not be happier with the dealer-- Mark at Reno HiFi.  Great product and a true gentleman at Reno Hi-Fi.

@clifff How does anyone with three post say "for the umpteenth time!"

XP15 owner here- it’s flexible, quiet, nuanced and dynamic. 

If you're gonna audition you must include Darren Myers Stellar in that $$ range.

Well, I have had an interesting experience with a JC3+. It overdrove my Bryston preamp because the MM gain was too high. However the lower gain phono stages work great with it such as the Pass Labs Aleph Ono, Musical Fidelity NuVista Vinyl and the PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamp. I love the Aleph Ono. I considered moving up the Pass Labs line but Wayne Coburn increased the MM minimum gain and that was a no-go for my Bryston preamp. I could go to the Pass Labs XOno. But haven’t found the right opportunity. 

If you look around you can find a new JC 3+ for $2,300.00 to $2,500.00I have a JC 3+ and a JC Jr. and would recommend them both against anything in their price range.Another phono pre amp you might want to consider but is a step up from both is Whest audio but the Whest will also cost accordingly.I have previously owned a Pass Aleph Ono which was a good phono preamp, so I am sure you would be happy with the newer XP-15.

A: please help me choose between product X and product Y. Both are in the same price range...

B: you must buy product Z! No way around it mate. Z was made by Messiah himself!

Why do we always end up here? 🤔 🤔 🤔 For the umpteenth time, please read the text in the first post carefully so as to understand the underlying question and its full context. Then, if you meet the necessary requirements for answering the question or providing the advice needed (in this case, that is having owned and used both product X and Y, having compared them, and actually having found one being superior to the other in some aspect that is tangible for the author of the question) you may proceed to posting your advice.

On the other hand if you don’t meet these requirements, you need to move on to another page where the messiah thing might gain better traction or stll better, start your own post. 

Back to topic, I would also choose for Pass. When we had it in the store as demo it easily outperformed its peers. I listened to the Parasound sometime later and I did not find it special. 

I had both. The Pass was much quieter and and lots of loading/gain options.

I have the XP-15 and it is fantastic.  I also have a Manley Chinook to compare it to.  The XP-15 is a little more detailed and very neutral and has a ton of loading / gain options.  No experience with the Parasound unit.

I’ve had both.   I’d give the edge to the XP-15 (although they’re close enough that sometimes its simply about what is available when you want to buy)

Both phono pre amps you mentioned are built by incredible talents you would probably need to hear them in your system to decide between them. Pass and Parasound are responsive to calls so you could contact them with questions. I haven't heard either but going blind would lean towards the Pass as it is American made and hardly ever shows on the used market which must tell you something.
Good luck happy listening.

PS: here is the US agent for them

https://www.soundbysinger.com/high-end-audio/phono-stages-and-catridges

I would seriously look at Tom Evens range of phono stages, many hold him up as the Messiah of phono stages. Has models that have big gain so you only need a passive pre to go with them, and have switchable adjustable cartridge loading impedances.
http://www.audiodesign.co.uk/

Cheers George