I feel your taking a chance buying a cd player that's 17 years old....
Crazy to buy a 17 year old CD Player?
My ARC CD2 just died...I think the laser finally gave up the ghost. Any how I've got thousands of red book CDs in my library and need a replacement player. I'm thinking an ARC CD 3MKII or the Mark Levinson 390S. Am I crazy to be thinking this? Got a budget of around $2000.00. My system, though dated, is made up of higher end stuff: ARC 25 pre amp, ARC VT 150 mono amps, VPI TNT IV, Wilson Witts, all running through Transparent Reference (Balanced).
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Well, it's been about 4 months with the Ayre5xeMP. Basically happy with the sound......the ARC had been dead for so long can't make valid comparisons to it. The only problem is having tasted of the Apple, am now wondering about streaming and the like. The Ayre has no digital ins so am looking at an outboard dac. Such is the nature of the hobby. Still, my CDs sound great and am listening more these days, so it's all good. |
Forget about trying to get a low jitter signal from a CD player. You have to spend at least $20K to achieve this. You can get the same or better result by purchasing a cheaper CD player, even used, with S/PDIF output and reclock it with a good reclocker and then drive a good coax cable to your DAC. Get a transport that is new enough to use the triple-laser technology. Even cheap Blu-Ray will work if it has S/PDIF output. CD transport - $300-400 Reclocker - $600 Coax cable - $250 total = $1250 |
An Oppo UDP 205 will give you video as well, plus a very fine DAC that you can use with other sources such as a Chromecast Audio or a television. I have my tv connected to my stereo system for much better audio, and I do not need multichannel (two Quad 2805 electrostats are big enough in the living room). And playing opera with both high quality video and excellent stereo audio is a joy. |
I like Dekay's post suggesting the Cary DCM600 on sale 1/3 the price. https://carydirect.com/shop-now/digital-sources/dmc-600.html |
There's a sweet tubed CDP, a Raysonic 228, for sale on USAudioMart. Original price: $4,000. Seller is open to offers and seems motivated? There is also one for sale on CanuckAudioMart for CAD$1,250 (~US$1,000) which should give you some negotiating room. |
Even though I like both of my CD players, I agree with many here, like zagoreos and anzaanimalclinic, CD players have moving parts, power supplies and other parts that can age, create noise, and are not simple devices like a spinning HDD and memory buffer or chip. Too me a computer or streamer device can deliver a cleaner and clearer presentation of the music. That and the fact that digital music is in it’s infancy and is evolving rapidly. I don’t think it will be long before the quality of the sound will match master analog tapes. Option 1 You can get a $750 streaming device and have $1250 left over for a great DAC. The Bluesound Vault 2 can do both jobs and would allow you to rip all your CDs into it's HDD. Option 2 Find a used NAD M50.2 (also with the option to rip your CD collection) and prepare to be amazed. |
I have bad experience with old CD players, specifically a Quad CD77 with a CDM 12.4 laser mechanism and a TEAC VRDS 9. One problem is that in many cases, plastics used on the laser lens housing get polymerized with time. If the lens itself is made of plastic, the laser fails reading the CD properly. If the lens mount gets polymerized, the laser gets misaligned with obvious results. The thing is that even if you get hold of an identical spare part, there is always a risk that its plastics got polymerized just by sitting on a warehouse rack. Apart from that, components age with time, especially drawer motors and caps. I would avoid any old CD player, unless I could get it dirt cheap. |
I found playing a CD from a SSD music server smoother than from a CD player (and easier). I would try to spend about a thousand on a music server and a thousand on a DAC. You can upgrade either in the future. Maybe add DSD or MQA if they are around in 5 years. Also you can download hi rez. and raid all you buddies CD libraries. |
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Let me be the last in the thread to suggest an upgrade to an Oppo CD player. I have had the 103D for several years and with a $375 upgrade from Stereo Dave's Audio Upgrade (which was without a doubt the most efficacious tweak I have ever had done to an audio component in my system), it is an excellent CD player. I have run the Oppo signal through several different DAC's, including the Schiitt Gungnir and Channel Islands Audio VDA 2, and hear no improvement in SQ compared to running the Oppo straight into my preamp. To my way of thinking, Oppo CD players offer unbeatable performance for mid-fi prices. |
I just received my (new) Oppo 205. Balanced outputs via Cardas cables into my Jeff Rowland gear. It is well beyond my expectations. Honestly - and SACD's and DVD-A sound great - I'm most impressed by CD playback. It makes me question the higher resolution formats...and frankly I haven't sat an critically listened to digital in a while. 5 sampling filtes - I ended up leaving it at the default 'brick wall', but some of the filters definitely shaped the top end in various ways. All this to say - it's a $1300 +/- player which is brilliant, with the very latest transport (note, I didn't say DAC etc etc - but that is true, as well) and media player (if you choose to embark on any other formats). The transport - if you want to play with other DAC's - is brilliant as well. For your budget - give it a try - let it burn in/settle in for a while, and see if you like it. I sure did mine. You could also send it in for a mod if that is to your liking. |
I would stay with an ARC CD player if that's what you're familiar with and have enjoyed so much. Since the OP didn't mention a preference for digital playback other than a redbook CD player, I wouldn't recommend an outboard DAC. I personally prefer an excellent standalone CD player over an outboard DAC. And while my Oppo BDP-95 or former BDP-83SE are good all-around players, they sound grainy and loose in the bass department compared to any Simaudio CD player that I've owned. |
Technics is as good is it gets. Pioneer never knew how to market them. Maybe they didn't know what they had. Second choice, get any box that will take an Oppo drive and hook it up to a decent DAC. I suggest the http://www.aquahifi.com/la_scala.html Spendy, but worth twice the price. |
I have 3 vintage transports. I bought these based on what transport mechanism was used back when they were made. Being that in some quarters it is said that the last best mechanism made by Philips was the CDM9 (standard or pro) And essentially the best of earlier production is the CDM 1 mk ii. I have a Musatex CD-D /C-lok that has been gone through by S. Sank who is adamant re/the high quality of this transport . The Musatex uses the Philips CDM1 mkii. The other 2 --- PSAudio Lambda which uses the Philips CDM9 pro and a Rotel RDD980 which uses the CDM9. Of course I can use any DAC I want and suggest you look for a pristine transport. Ive seen sellers ask as much as $1k for the Lambda.. I got mine for $400 here on Agon. My Musatex also was bought here for less than $400--- incredible scores. My Rotel I also got on here for $150 and picked it up locally. All that being said.. I was told by Theta one time some years back that lasers age just sitting on the shelf. So far I've never experienced a laser failure and most all of my transports have been vintage. My current ones are from the 90's. This site will tell just what mechanism is used on most all transports and players as well. http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/ |
After reading the replies I had to give you my experience. I was going through the same struggle trying to figure which way to go. I was still using my Cal-Labs Delta Transport to an upgraded Wadia 12 DAC (which is an R2R dac). Both very old (mid 90's), so I went on a quest to find better. Every one was saying how much better new DAC's were. All the reading I did pointed me to the Oppo 105 without spending a ton of money. I bought the 105 and was very disappointed. I had read they need to break in so I left it on repeat 24/7 and before the end of the return period I did more A/B testing. It did sound a bit better after breaking in but my wife and I both still much preferred the Cal Transport/Wadia. So then I used the 105 just as a transport with the spdif digital coaxial out to my Wadia. My Cal-Labs Delta transport that I bought new in the '90's sounded much better. How could this be I thought? Both as a transport and DAC I liked my old equipment better. Now, before someone says I'm crazy, consider the fact that the old transports used better mechanical clamping mechanisms where now everything uses a cheap computer drive. Why? Because there is not enough demand for high end CD playback like there used to be. Audio manufactures need to chose from what parts are available on the market. Just like DAC chips, the cost involved in good R2R dac's was too high so the 'Technology' was to make them smaller and cheaper...not better sounding. Now saying that, what you read so much about new players being so much better is very relative. The real issue that is not being said is the preference of format. The Oppo 105 sounds great if you are playing an SACD, but all my music was on CD. So when reading reviews consider the context of how it is being used. I was very glad I had tried the 105 however because I found that the best sound was actually playing back the digital files (Ripped from CD with EAC) from my NAS going from the 105 to my Wadia. I had tried computer audio before and it was too harsh. The Oppo 105 makes a great digital transport. I ended up buying an NAD M50 to rip and play back the digital files and a Schiit Yggdrasil to play Hi-Res 24bit files as it is an R2R dac and still sounds good on 16bit 44.1 files. I suggest one major piece of advise...You need to hear it in your system! Go to a high-end audio store that will let you have a home demo. If it's a long drive, watch their site for used gear that comes in so you can compare more than one item. |
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I JUST ordered a amazing condition Pioneer Elite DV-79AVI to use as my main cd player. heard good things. as long as it sounds better than my dv-48av and roteldvd-1040 and the 4 other cd players which failed on me in the last 10 months, i will be just fine. its an old unit, but from what i hear, they are reliable, and sound better than 2-3X their price point!! |
Question. Why would you burn your entire budget on just a CD player alone when you can get a good unit and then spend the remaining budget on a nice DAC? Especially when you could possibly get a PSA unit that allows firmware upgrades? I suppose it makes sense if you are absolutely sure the unit is going to produce a sound you are satisfied with and you don't want to mess with other hardware for some reason. I am also in the market for a new transport but I did a quick compare with my current cheapo sony blue ray/cd player vs the new CA CXC transport and there was absolutely no compelling reason to switch. I would really like to get my hands on a used PSA DSMP and see what that sounds like. |
I'll second the POV of the respondent who recommended OPPO. Both the 105 and the 205 have state of the art DACs, and upsample everything to 192/24 and play DSD in native format, including (if you wish) multi-channel analog output. I love ARC gear (use some myself) but the OPPO makes virtually ALL high-end CD players obsolete, from a pricing standpoint as well as from a sound standpoint. Don't be misled by those who claim it has to be wired into a home-theatre system. It requires a simple TV connection for set-up. Once that is done and you have it in "pure audio" mode, it is simply a disk player. |
To the OP question, Yes it would be crazy to buy a 17 year old cdp. chances are the laser or transport won't last and be difficult to replace as many have noted. More importantly the DAC probably won't be as good as many that are obtainable on your budget and you won't have flexibility going forward if you wish to branch into other digital sources. The Oppo 205 makes a lot of sense. It is 60% of your budget. it has a really good DAC. It will play DVDs and Blu Rays. it will add a bunch of options that you may never wish to use, but if you do, you're covered, namely: multichannel, computer audio, and streaming. It has good customer service, which you probably won't get on a 17 year old CDP |
brand new 321 still in box https://www.paragonsns.com/product/wadia-321/ transport refurb with warranty https://www.audiogon.com/listings/cd-sacd-players-ps-audio-perfectwave-cd-transport-memory-player-re... |
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Go back to 1983. "Would it be crazy to buy another high end turntable my Garrard just died? CDs will be taking over anyway". Well album spinning is still going on and turntables are as popular as ever to the young and the old alike. I don't think CD players will go away. I would get another High quality CDC player or transport like a Rega apollo or even Oppo with a digital out for upgrading DACs as you choose. My other choice is to rip all my cds into a Bluesound Vault 2, which also has a digital out for upgrading your DAC. With the BS choice you can get into streaming, even try HQA, but still enjoy your CDs on flac or HQ file format. |
The Rega Saturn-R is a find sounding current model CD player. It is also a very useful multi-input DAC, so you could use it, as-is, for years and also have the flexibility of adding other digital sources if you ever decide to transition to a music server, etc. The Rega is $3K MSRP and a bit over half of that on the used market. It is also built like a tank. |
