I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
A question to all who currently own these counterfeit cables…
When you’re ready to move on and upgrade, what will you do with these fakes?
They go in a box in the basement. Not really fair to sell them. I thought of defacing them and selling them, but not worth the time.
In the case of the power cords, I pirated the connectors for some domestic name brand OCC cords I bought that would benefit from the upgrade. The power connectors are top notch on the cables knockoffs that I bought.
FWIW, I did not find that the power, speaker or interconnect cables were anything special. All nicely made, but guessing that the underlying copper/silver quality is poor.
@questforhifi I've wondered about that same thing. The Valhalla 2 Reference Speaker Cable is listed at $750 CDN (OCC wire) on the HI FI Audio site. Also listed for $635 CDN (OFC) on the same site. No one seems to have answered your question yet. $750 is a lot of cheese to try out a set of knock off cables. Also not sure that I would ever believe the OCC claim on Ali. They clearly state OFC in the product description. Maybe it just cost $35 extra to type OCC in the title line. 🤣
The Valhalla 2 Reference Speaker Cable consists of twenty-eight conductors divided into four groups of seven.
Each conductor is made from solid core 99.999999% oxygen free copper and plated with 85 microns of silver. A Dual Mono-Filament wrap is applied and helically wound around each conductor before a precision FEP jacket is extruded over the outside.
The transmission speed of the cable is extremely fast, at 97% the speed of light. V2 exemplifies state of the art technology with very wide bandwidth signals and minimum phase shift.
It delivers incredible transient response and dynamic resolution, preserving depth of musical detail and allowing listeners to follow complex recordings with ease.
Plug: gold-plated spade connectors or Nordost low-mass Z plugs.
"A question to all who currently own these counterfeit cables…
When you’re ready to move on and upgrade, what will you do with these fakes?"
I have a few sets of the Chinese Nordost Odin Gold IC's here. They're good cables (having replaced some $300-$400 IC's) and I now have a few extras (as I upgraded to the Accuphase 40th Anniversary IC's at $20 a pair haha!) and will probably just keep them as it's nice to have some extras around to accommodate changes/additions in the secondary system. Or I might just give them to a younger audiophile who might be building a system that could put them to use, telling them of course that they're fakes.
If I was to sell them on, I'd clearly identify them as Chinese clones and sell them at a reasonable price, certainly less than what they could be purchased for directly on Aliexpress. And the ones I have here have been cryoed and burned in on an Audiodharma cable cooker.
I'd certainly make an effort to sell them to someone that I thought would not misrepresent them in the future, but stuff happens and there are unscrupulous people out there-it is just human nature sadly.
I sold a Koetsu Black (a real one LOL!) about 20-25 years ago on this site that had a few thousand hours on it and needed to be retipped or rebuilt (which was not really an affordable option in those days-would have needed to go back to Koetsu for big $$$, which I was not willing to do), fully disclosing to the Buyer these details. He turned around and passed it on as a much newer cartridge selling it to another member here for big $$$. Info on this may still be archived here-that 3rd buyer complained through Audiogon and I came forward to support him and I believe the buyer I sold to was forced to refund the $$$ and may have been banned.
Unfortunately stuff like this is going to happen, whether it's with counterfeit or non-counterfeit goods. How many 70's Pioneer or Marantz receivers have been picked up at the Goodwill, sprayed with some contact cleaner and then sold for thousands of $$$ with a claim that they've been fully serviced.
As I have stated clearly in threads like these many times, buying the Nordost clones (or the Accuphase branded product) has not taken any money out of the pockets of Nordost. The Chinese "Nordost" are $50 and the real Nordost are $30,000. Yes, I'd prefer that the Chinese not label or brand them as Nordost. But I'd also prefer that Nordost not sell their real Nordost Golds for $30,000. Frankly, I find both to be almost equally distasteful, for lack of a better word.
In the overall scheme of things in my life which I feel are distasteful, though, both rank very low in terms of being excessively bothersome (ie. there are much more important things to get worked up about).
As in: I'm going to get about as worked up about buying the Chinese clone wire as I am thinking about how disgustingly obscene it might be that Nordost is selling interconnects for $30K at what are surely outrageous profit margins and the guy that's buying them could be donating that money to feed a small village in Africa for a year or even impoverished people more local to him. (Now if the guy wants to buy the real Nordost Gold AND support the impoverished, clearly I could have no problem with that!) And I am certainly not a bleeding heart liberal.
There are a lot of different ways to actually look at this situation. It's not really a black and white one to me. Lots of grey here.
Am I my audiophile brother's keeper? Yeah, in the sense of not misrepresenting something and ripping someone off going forward. But no in the sense of being responsible for the scumbag who might buy from me to resell and make a profit.
And, as I say, there's plenty of that going on in the hobby and sites like this on non-counterfeit product as well.
Yeah some of you’re going to box them up and keep them in the basement when you move on. Or tie your garbage bag with these cables which is even a better strategy. That’s just you though. It’s inevitable that some of these cables will end up on a used market at some point and be sold as genuine. It has been happening and will continue to happen and all of you bragging about this garbage and hyping it up will have something to do with it. On a used market it hurts sellers and buyers alike. It causes unnecessary paranoia and overhead that includes disputes, endless back and forth emails, sending cables to manufacturers to get authenticated for a fee, etc
@pennfootball71 I was raised and believe that if you don’t have anything nice to “Sprook?” you should say nothing at all. It would be an advantageous philosophy to adapt to improve your credibility and support from fellow goners as we share our audio experiences. Name calling instead of being civil in discussing others differing opinions is so petty.
@tubeguy76 sprook comment is for any of us that buy and comment in public about these Ali branded products is how I read it. Agree with you, I would never buy real Nordost so no business impact to them. These cables have more impact on the brands in my price range that I may not buy.
@audphile1 I would never resell these brand name copies. Repurpose the parts or damage and dispose of them.
- what materials are used by the chinese to allow them to produce a Nordost Valhalla or Odin counterfeit they can sell for $50 and still make money
- who builds all this stuff? Have you seen a factory tour? I bet child labor is involved
- pretty sure the CCP is grateful for your contribution
@hdmsorry man but none of what you said above justifies this. If you can’t afford and or don’t like Nordost selling $30,000 cables, don’t buy them. There are plenty of legitimately good cables available from hard working folks like TWL in example. If you want decent sounding affordable cables they are out there. They just don’t look like Odin or Valhalla.
But…you all do as you please. Right wrong or different.
“- what materials are used by the chinese to allow them to produce a Nordost Valhalla or Odin counterfeit they can sell for $50 and still make money
- who builds all this stuff? Have you seen a factory tour? I bet child labor is involved
- pretty sure the CCP is grateful for your contribution”
Don’t disagree but isn’t this the case for all the Chinese parts and components used in products made/assembled outside of China including USA. At least the assembly labor and some of the parts are not. Not even getting into raw materials. I don’t think any of my USA made audio components don’t have ties to Chinese parts or materials.
@audphile1 Your question - what materials are used by the chinese to allow them to produce a Nordost Valhalla or Odin counterfeit they can sell for $50 and still make money, raises a disturbing issue for me. That being, you can actually build a cable for $50 and still turn a profit. The price we pay for cables cannot be supported by the cost to manufacture. IMHO. And I don't have fake cables in my system. I paid thousands and resented the margins every time. We are involved in a hobby that allows manufacturers and vendors to take advantage. Again IMHO. You only need to look at the $7,000,000 power cable to know something is not right.
Get off of your high horse. If you don't like them, don't buy them. As far as the aftermarket sales are concerned, bad guys will do bad things when given the chance. Most of us have no intention of reselling them as genuine.
@tksteingraberno doubt there are parts in our audio components that are made in china. But most if not all are major parts suppliers and the risk for manufacturers to get involved with something akin to the counterfeit cable manufacturing isn’t worth it on many levels including quality which isn’t controlled to the degree required by reputable component manufacturers. The counterfeit industry is a different animal.
Get off of your high horse. If you don't like them, don't buy them. As far as the aftermarket sales are concerned, bad guys will do bad things when given the chance. Most of us have no intention of reselling them as genuine.
Don’t tell me what to do and I won’t tell you where to go @roxy54
My next reincarnation is in China... What is your big picture ?
😁
Seriously i dont want to throw a stone to anyone buying counterfeit by human curiosity... I am in the same opinion as you about reselling them... It is a fraud...Period.
I never bought a counterfeit even by curiosity as i said because i dont take cables branded name seriously as a main factor ...
That depends on how big of a picture you’re looking at.
This thread should have been deleted the day it went up for encouraging criminal activities. Would have shown that there was at least a ounce of decorum in this forum. Says much of the OP too.
@ericgaleWhere's the criminality? Federal law doesn't prohibit shoppers from purchasing counterfeit products for personal use, even if they know they're fake.
Christ used a piece of money coming from a fish mouth when he says to Peter who need money to go fishing..
For a roman officer this miracle can be interpret as using counterfeited Roman money ...
Some will arrest and condemn people because it is legal even when legal is illegitimate ...
We have seen this not long ago ... I will not enter into details ...
Legitimity in the world has nothing to do with law very often and especially with Us federal law ...
My grand mother called this kind of people more catholic than the pope and in inquisition time they were called inquisitor...
Dostoievsky even wrote a book about the hypothetical christ coming back and arrested because not enough catholic by some of this species of human who condemn easily others ...
Buying a counterfeit cables as a curiosity , experimenting with it if you dont resold it as a true one but throw it in the garbage after using it , i myself dont see a problem...
Geeez…More name calling…can’t we discuss difference in opinions with civility? Otherwise don’t engage in these topics and find another place to vent your anger, frustration or whatever it is other than audiogon.
@mahgisterit is an expression, and was directed at the carpathian fellow. Do you take everything so literally? And we do not speak of this thing (la cosa nostra)
By the way the carpathian spoke less than me but is a golden heart and with no backtoughts but he is often sarcastic in his comment ...
You seems a good fellow to me...
I spoke too much but i love people...
Sincere welcome ...😊
@mahgisterit is an expression, and was directed at the carpathian fellow. Do you take everything so literally? And we do not speak of this thing (la cosa nostra)
@ericgale Please don't ever suggest the deletion of this thread. It's my all time favorite. 18 pages long on the subject of Counterfeit Cables. And best of all, some of the discussion actually pertains to the subject matter. 😂 By the way, I loved your guitar work on Joe Cocker's "Stingray" LP, and Paul Simon's "One Trick Pony". Very tasteful as always. IMHO. Cheers.
@tksteingraber I understand you are a little bit upset about name-calling and completely see your side. But in the title of the discussion, is the word counterfeit…
The meaning is
adjective
made in exact imitation of something valuable or important with the intention to deceive or defraud.
"two men were remanded on bail on a charge of passing counterfeit $10 bills.”
noun- a fraudulent imitation of something else; a forgery."he knew the tapes to be counterfeits"
@pennfootball71 oh wow now you are patronizing us by giving us the definition of counterfeit as if we don’t know its definition. So because the discussion description is counterfeit it gives the green light to name calling agoners? What the….is the logic here.
Personally I don’t refer to them as counterfeit but rather copies because they have just the name on items and aren’t exact replicas. Semantics and a matter of opinion. I’m fine if you define them as such. My speaker cables are named Audiocrast which is sooo much better.
@tksteingraberoh you reject my reality and substitute your own! Spoken like a true counterfeit person! I am so glad you know it is okay to steel intellectual property! I am so glad it is fine to promote illegal products on Audiogon. I feel sorry for you.
@bigtwin-- Amen! I hope this thread breaks the Audiogon record for "Thread With Most Replies", "Longest Running Thread", and "Thread That Caused The Most Pearls To Be Clutched".
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