Correct Way to Invert Phase

I have a phase inverting Cary 98P. I correct this at the speaker terminals.
I also have a Feliks Euphoria head phone amp the is fed from the amplifiers second set of amplifier outputs to the Feliks amps inputs, how can I phase invert this?

Could I swap the + & - soldered connections on one end of the each L &R RCA cable or swap and resolver the output wires inside the amp leading to the rca connections? (This looks like it is easy) ? 

Subwoofer Phase Controller
https://sound-au.com/project103.htm

With RCA you can use an isolation transformer and reverse the outputs, since the outputs of the transformer will be balanced.

I have a similar problem but the issue is with my sub. It doesn’t have a polarity switch for some reason. I’m using a heavy duty RCA cable to its input from the subwoofer out on my amp. I’m assuming you’d need a box of some sort to invert the phase since RCA isn’t TRS? I used to make my own “phase reverse” TRS cables back in the day when I had a lot more time and patience😂 Any wisdom on the issue would be much appreciated

Just speculation on my part, but, I bet speakers with drivers that are time aligned on their baffle and have crossovers that also do not shift phase (1st order crossovers) might make it easier to discern changes in polarity.  Of course that would be the case too with full-range drivers, including electrostatics.  

My CDP and phono stage both have phase reversal switches.     The very few recordings I own, that exhibit a change in presentation with a change in phase, are marked.        With those; the effects are obvious.

We've had a polarity switch on our preamps since their inception in 1989. IME you can really only hear a minor difference if you have a 2 or 3 mic recording; anything multitracked or multimiked will sound the same in either polarity.

I have a Mark Levinson No. 32 preamp (on loan to a friend) that allows for inverting polarity by remote control.  On most tracks, I cannot reliably hear a difference.  On some, there is a preferable polarity, on others, one instrument will sound better, but another one or the vocalist suffers (there is no guarantee with multi-track recordings that the polarity is consistent throughout the recording).  I concluded that it did not matter enough for me to drive myself nuts doing a track-by-track evaluation (different tracks on the same album may have a different preferable setting).

There are test CDs that will present the same track with  different polarity so that you can hear the effect for yourself.  The Chesky Jazz sampler is the one I have.  Chesky is very meticulous with their recordings, so, they are good for such testing of subtle effects.  

mijostyn

With my system I can invert phase on either channel or both at the same time all by remote control from the listening position. With both speakers in phase and switching them together not one of you would be able to tell inverted from not and anyone who thinks they can is______(fill in the blank.)

I have no reason to doubt that is true with your system. Are you suggesting it would be true with all systems?

This CD includes tests/tracks that will tell anyone interested, whether they can discern reversed phase, in their room, on their system, with their ears:            https://cheskyrecords.bandcamp.com/album/chesky-records-jazz-sampler-audiophile-test-vol-1            That some can’t doesn’t mean others won’t.

With my system I can invert phase on either channel or both at the same time all by remote control from the listening position. With both speakers in phase and switching them together not one of you would be able to tell inverted from not and anyone who thinks they can is______(fill in the blank.)

"polarity" refers to +/- connections (ie: at the speaker or amp).  "Phase"  refers to the motion of the speaker cones, relative to the recorded signal.    Reverse the polarity at either end of the speaker cable and you've reversed the phase, at the cones, 180 Degrees.       "Absolute phase" simply means cone motion and recorded signal are the same, in the context of The Wood Effect (compression at microphone = compression at your ear).

Absolute phase vs relative phase aka polarity used loosely :(

The use of a single gain stage means that the L3A main outputs (but not the buffered tape and surround-sound outputs) invert signal polarity. Since no phase-inversion circuitry is used, be sure to reverse speaker cable polarity at either the power amp or speaker terminals in order to maintain correct absolute polarity.

Hi, 

This is for audible illusion and it is on reversed polarity and fix to reverse speaker cables.

Conrad Johnson refers to phase or polarity since they are different topics to my understanding albiet not the first time I am wrong ?

Cheers.

Richard

Hi,

I appreciate all of the input.

It confirms the correct way to invert phase is with the speaker wires.

I will continue on that track. 

Thanks for listening,

Scott

I have a Vinnie Rossi L2 preamp that inverts phase and I almost didn’t complete the purchase because of thick and slightly bloated bass and a detail imbalance... Vinnie said what most here say...but I switched phase at the speakers and I get much better / proper balance. ::shrugs:: 

The 92% number comes from the guy that has the most experience - The Polarity Pundit, George Louis. I do not agree or disagree with the Polarity Pundit but find the topic quite interesting. A random distribution of polarity actually doesn’t make much sense because not all recording and mastering engineers are ignorant of or don’t care about polarity. IIRC The number 92% comes from something to do with the digital manufacturing process, since vinyl is mostly in correct polarity, at least according to the Polarity Pundit.

Clark Johnsen, author of The Wood Effect, disagrees generally with the PP but I don’t recall if Clark offers a percentage of CDs in reverse polarity. When people say the correct number is 50% they’re just guessing. Making CDs is not a random process. Certainly some audio recording engineers and mastering engineers must care about polarity. So, on that basis you’d expect the percentage of CDs in correct polarity to be higher than random (50%). As Judge Judy sez, if it doesn’t make sense it’s not true.

If something is not bunk it can’t be debunked. - Old audiophile axiom 🤡

According to this thread 92% of all CDs play with inverted polarity (I heard similar stats before).

@delcal  This has been debunked. The correct number is 'about 50%'.

select-hifi
I use the Isotek Ultimate system set up Disc. This will within 5 minutes demonstrate the sound of your system inphase and out of phase. When i put this Disc on to fine tune my system inphase gives a solid focused vocal image central in between speakers tightly in focus, out of phase the vocal comes from between your speakers but with no fixed position. Apparently the better the out of phase sounds (vocal with no fixed position) the better your system will sound when playing CD’s.

>>>>>The out-of-phase track will sound correct as long as the system is in phase (correct polarity). Also, the real function and advantage of the out-of-phase track is to allow accurate positioning of speakers, such that when the sound is MOST diffuse (least focused) with the out-of-phase track - the sound is coming at you from no particular direction, even from way off to left and right 🔛 and behind you if you’re lucky - the sound will be the MOST focused 👀when the system is playing a CD that is in correct phase/polarity. It should be pointed out that it takes a lot of work to get the out-of-phase track to sound totally diffuse, a LOT of leg work 🏃🏻‍♂️ in the room treatment department and moving around of speakers. Rome 🏛wasn’t built in a day. 🤡

Phase and polarity explained!
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=what+is+the+difference+in+polarity+and+phase&&view=deta...

Before reversing the positive and negative connections to your speakers, check your power amp and sources if the phase/polarity inverted !

My NAD M51 inverts as well

I have a c-j that inverts phase, most of theirs do as they only have one stage of gain that inherently inverts phase.   I just swap speaker + and - .....  I also invert phase on my Velodyne SMS 1 so the sub gets "correct ' phase.

According to this thread 92% of all CDs play with inverted polarity (I heard similar stats before).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/all-tracks-on-approximately-92-of-compact-discs-cds-play-in-inverted-polarity-on-approximately-92-of-compact-disc-players.793663/

The take home message...........By he time all of the tracks on an album are mixed no one knows what the correct phase was. And lots of times the mixers will intentionally invert the phases because they think it sounds better.

What are some examples of songs with reversed phase . Would be interesting to see the differences. 

You can only "reverse" the pins with XLR or balanced connectors. Otherwise, you are just grounding the signal. :)

Do yourself a favor and do it at the speaker.

Some recordings sound better one way. Some sound better the other. If you notice a big enough difference then you could try switching for every recording and write down which way sounds best, then switch every recording. Or plan your listening by grouping tracks that sound best in phase and playing them back to back. But I found this to be too hard. So what I do now, split the difference. Wire one speaker each way.

Incoming.....!

Play Hendrix and try to fix the phase inversion.
That will make you crazy. Intentional phase inversion was one of his tools for mixing a recording.

Sounds a little obsessive-compulsive, but it would bother me too - probably enough to make a change.

Yogiboy is correct. Rewiring the preamp-to-amp cables such that + is connected to - and vice versa would connect the signals on the preamp’s + outputs (the RCA center pins) to the amp’s ground, which of course would not work too well :-)

If the preamp-to-amp connections were balanced (which I presume they are not, since you are using a CJ preamp) interchanging the connections to XLR pins 2 and 3 at one end of the cables would do the trick.

Also, if by any chance your speakers are not passive (e.g., if they incorporate powered woofers or are otherwise AC powered, or if the amp outputs are connected to powered subs), I would check with the speaker or sub manufacturer to be sure it is safe to connect the amp’s + outputs to the speaker or sub’s - inputs, which conceivably could be connected to ground via some low impedance within the speaker or sub.

Regards,
-- Al

Reversing the positive and negative on the speaker will not harm anything. There is no way to reverse the positive and negative on the preamp cables. BTW, you might not hear any difference if you do invert the phase! Give it a try you have nothing to lose!