I would like to start a thread, similar to Orpheus’ jazz site, for lovers of classical music. I will list some of my favorite recordings, CDs as well as LP’s. While good sound is not a prime requisite, it will be a consideration. Classical music lovers please feel free to add to my lists. Discussion of musical and recording issues will be welcome.
I’ll start with a list of CDs. Records to follow in a later post.
Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique. Chesky — Royal Phil. Orch. Freccia, conductor. Mahler: Des Knaben Wunderhorn. Vanguard Classics — Vienna Festival Orch. Prohaska, conductor. Prokofiev: Scythian Suite et. al. DG — Chicago Symphony Abbado, conductor. Brahms: Symphony #1. Chesky — London Symph. Orch. Horenstein, conductor. Stravinsky: L’Histoire du Soldat. HDTT — Ars Nova. Mandell, conductor. Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances. Analogue Productions. — Dallas Symph Orch. Johanos, cond. Respighi: Roman Festivals et. al. Chesky — Royal Phil. Orch. Freccia, conductor.
All of the above happen to be great sounding recordings, but, as I said, sonics is not a prerequisite.
I prefer Bernstein version to the two Celi version in Beethoven Egmont yes ... 😊😁
But the young version with Berlin has nothing to do with his mature notion of the musical time which he exhibit well with the Stuttgart version like you know for sure...
And yes someone can be a genius in intemporal Bruckner and less convincing in mundane incarnated warring Beethoven...
i prefer Furtwangler to almost all in Beethoven because his notion of musical time is at home with Beethoven like Celi concept of musical time is at home with Bruckner...
Bernstein is a so great genius because he can use any of these two way to create musical time appropriate to each composer... Like other great maestros geniuses with him...
Georgiev one day said that all maestros try to imitate the temporal musical direction of Furt. without succeeding completely , I think he is right...The way musical time is out of mundane measurable time and emerge from music itself without being objectively "measurable" at all is fascinating experience with Furt and sometimes with other maestro in some composer...
Celi is a singularity among maestros, because he impose more than any other his own concept of musical time, which is not the Furtwanglerian one, i described above and Celi impose it on every composer...Then we listen Celi fascinating or boring interpretation, it is only dependent on our ability to see what there is to see...
When we listen Celi there is no more time passing, nor the musical time in the Furtwangler sense, nor measurable mundane time, there is only a single moment of variable duration where eternity pour in an everlasting moment like water pouring in a glass andoverflowing or a moment of time elevating or stretching itself to eternity...What is miraculous in his Bruckner is the way Celi never lost intensity in this everlasting moment like in the Egmont case...Time is almost vanishing with him or become transparent so to speak, especially in his Bruckner at home interpretations ....it is a Buddhist notion of time and anyway Celi was buddhist pupil....
He is the only maestro obsessed by time in this sense.... He cannot be judged without be understood...He is fascinating if we understood him , boring if we dont try to understand him , more boring in Egmont for sure, not boring at all in any Bruckner... Unique...
Thank for your kind words...
i am not a musician at all...
I dont know music language by the way, i attempt to decipher it with my ears/brain/body thats all...
Have I mentioned the symphonies of Florence Price on this endless thread? Early 20th Century African American female composer. Featured on Idagio. Recordings on DG with the Philadelphia Orchestra. Like Dvorak, but just that tiny(!) bit more authentic. Utterly lovely and accessible.
This interpretation with Klemperer and these two giant singers is out of this world ...
There exist only one other interpretation perhaps rivaling it...
But the best possible version dont exist...
It will be Wunderlich and Ferrier for me...
The luminous honey hue of Wunderlich voice with the never before heard deep somber subterranean voice of Ferrier here....( or Marian Anderson who is only rival)
I am in love with contraltos voices...I want to marry one... In my next life...
I gotta tell ya' that it just doesn't matter to me if I understand what the words are in foreign language vocals. I just get into the exotic sounds the singers make. The foreign languages add to the the flavor of what I hear. I let the vocalists' artistic expression supply the meaning.
I listened to Jascha Horenstein conduct Brahms3 with the Southwestern German Orchestra. On a Pristine Audio restoration of a late mono era Vox recording. I’ve had the Vox for years though I haven’t played it that often. The Pristine enhancement is definitely worth it. One now perceives air around the instruments and a real soundstage. Solo woodwinds are more prominent, and what used to be a third tier sounding Orchestra now at least sounds second rate.
I admire JH, and collect many of his recordings, but his Brahms 3 isn’t really for me. It is definitely old school, autumnal Brahms, although extremely well done. It sounds deliberate and thoughtful, and not like the flabby mess that Giulini made at the end of his career, and less gimmicky than Bernstein’s outing with the VPO
The Brahms symphonies are each great, but I find few recording rise to the challenges of the music. Conductors including Karajan, Stokowski and more recently, Ivan Fisher, emote and editorialize too much. The Carlos Kleiber Brahms 4th, though, is astonishing, as is Furtwangler's WWII live recording of the 4th. The sound is not great in either, though. It's poor in the Furtwangler, as should be expected from the vintage. Abbado/Berlin, in better sound, is good, not great. Does anyone have any suggestions for Brahms symphony recordings in modern sound?
Well here is something that, at minimum, you will find more 'modern'. A road less traveled for sure. Paalo Berglund and the COE. If you are tired of over orchestrated, bloated Brahms, performed by large orchestras, which is so abundant, perhaps you should give these a listen. I find them quite attractive. If you like what happens here then maybe you should give his Sibelius a listen as well.
I am a new contributor to this classical forum, and am delighted that there is an Audiogon group that is focused on the much neglected classical repertoire by audiophiles. Certainly, there is no other branch of music can that can fully test the excellence of audio systems like classical!
I recently picked up the recent Brahms symphony cycle on CD at Tanglewood with Andris Nelsons and the superb Boston Symphony.
I have never heard Brahms interpreted quite like this, and my appreciation grows with every repeat hearing. Nelsons imparts a new fluidity to these great works - and nowhere is this more evident than in the relatively neglected 2nd Symphony. You will be captivated by this performance as well as the sumptuous sound quality of this relatively new release. It is time to experience the wondrous subtleties that unravel so perfectly under Nelsons’ direction.
I haven't hear Nelsons in Brahms. The reviews have been somewhat mixed. For the record my favorite cycles are
1) Kurt Sanderling/Dresden Staatkapele mine are on Japanese Blue Spec discs but they always seem to be in print somewhere.
2) Walter/Columbia SO (stereo-there are several Walter mono cycles which are even better performances) only a low energy Fourth keeps this from top rank
3) Klemperer/Philharmonia O.K., Klemperer could be granitic, but Brahms was definitely in his wheelhouse
4) Jurowski/Pittsburgh on Pentatone-the best Multichannel set
5) Karajan/Berlin P I give my nod to the seventies cycle, but there is a more exciting live Brahms cycle from the early seventies recorded in Paris in good FM stereo available from Norbeck,Peters, and Ford (norpete.com) that blows away the studio cycles. The more live Karajan I hear, the more I realize that he could have tremendous spontaneity)
I'd like to hear the Steinberg/Pittsburgh set that was just released by DG, I think it is mentioned a bit upthread
The Janowski is a solid cycle. Pittsburgh is a great, and under rated orchestra, the interpretations are well shaped, and Pentatone is truly an audiophile label. If you are a Multichannel enthusiast, there really is no other MC Brahms cycle that comes close (I have 3 others-maser/Gewandhaus, Manze/Helsingborg, and Paavo Jarvi with the Bremen Chamber Orchestra on Blu Ray. The Jarvi is excellent but it's small band Brahms, much like Berglund/COE. You do miss some oomph in the bigger moments). If you don't care about multichannel, the Janowski is still a worthy set that sounds great in two channel.
I was hoping to do just that and to hear what people had to say about the myriad of different Brandenburg Concertos out there. It’s like the three bears, this one is too fast, this one is too slow and this one is just right.
Just listened to Cafe Zimmerman and I kinda liked it.
I've always liked Pinnock's Brandenbergs with the English Concert, although there are many fine ones out there. I like the energy they project in their performances. It's interesting to me how much the original instruments versions that now seem to predominate have made some of the old versions done in the 60s that I grew up with sound sluggish or too lush to me.
I have been listening to an oldie but goodie Brandenberg, Karl Ristenpart with the Chamber Orchestra of the Saar. It will sound anachronistic next to HIPP versions but I love it. The players (including Rampal, Andre, and Veyron-Lacoix) are superb and the tempos are sane. Their is energy in the music, demonstrating that one doesn’t need hyper caffeination to sound involved
This Ristenpart version was my best one because of the perfect tempo all along... On vinyl...
I loose it when i go digital thirty years ago...
😁
No version beat his tempi and dynamic...
My best is now Hogwood recording which instruments recording is better but dont beat Ristenpart dynamics... Ex Aequo in my mind....
Perfect description of Ristenpart for me 😊 :
The players (including Rampal, Andre, and Veyron-Lacoix) are superb and the tempos are sane. Their is energy in the music, demonstrating that one doesn’t need hyper caffeination to sound involved
Nowadays we have even more perfect audiophile recording but none i listened too had the integrated musical timing and dynamic of Hogwood and Ristenpart even if the sound could be more beautifully recorded ... Playing together with the same answering timings responses as in a spontaneous jazz dialogue is a difficult art ... For me Ristenpart and Hogwood had it ...
My prefered version of Mozart Requiem is Hogwood for the same reason ...
I love the Hogwood Mozart Requiem, but it’s a curio because he refuses to use any notes that might have the taint of Sussmayr, so it sounds very truncated. I think that is being a bit extreme, since Sussmayr was an accomplished 18th century composer, had been a student of WAM, and was the choice of Frau Mozart to finish it off.
I found digital copies of all the Ristenpart Bach recordings, a 6 CD set from France, via eBay, at about $15 per CD. A bit pricey, but I had bought a turntable and phono pre just so I could play treasured LPs that are unavailable digitally, and a substantial fraction of my lp collection are the aforementioned Ristenpart Bach recordings. I had bought a handful of other Nonesuch and Vox/Turnabout recordings that I now have been able to locate digital versions as well. Considering selling the analog rig as listening to these noisy, poorly pressed records is reminding me of why I got out of vinyl in the first place
My Nonesuch and Turnabout LP’s are still in excellent shape. As far as sound goes, with my new analog rig some, but not all, are audiophile quality. I use them to demonstrate the SQ of my set.
I love the Hogwood Mozart Requiem, but it’s a curio because he refuses to use any notes that might have the taint of Sussmayr, so it sounds very truncated. I think that is being a bit extreme, since Sussmayr was an accomplished 18th century composer, had been a student of WAM, and was the choice of Frau Mozart to finish it off.
You are right about the "truncated aspect"...
Sussmeyer addition sound right ..
But to defend Hogwood choice, observe that it drive the orchestra and chorus and soloist as in an opera not as in a mass... This dramatic choice is the reason why in my mind this version is so enthralling and hypnotically efficient suggesting at the same times what lack in any other version : the childish fear of death and fear of the Grime reaper and the childish innocence and aspiration to death as a mother; the two contradictory emotions creating the drama ...
No other more liturgical interpretation touch it ...
It is like an operatic mass...Or a sacred Mysteries introduction as with "the enchanted flute "mysteries drama... Mozart was a serious freemason after all ...
The amplifiers on my Triton 1 speakers’ subwoofers were broken by a power surge in my neighborhood. Consequently I’m not listening to much music with a lot of bass lately.
I’ve begun a project of listening to the Beethoven string quartets. So far I’ve listened to op. 18. Quartets. Beethoven’s genius is palpable in these works. He devoured the classical style whole and spit out masterpieces that surpassed even Haydn and Mozart in invention. And this is to mention only one genre he worked with.
Can you use headphones? Also -just curious if listening sans subs puts any significant strain on the rest of your speakers, though I suspect not.
I actually used a recording of Beethoven op 59/1 and 59/3, the first and third Razumovsky Quartets, to audition a sub, many years ago. The salesman was aghast and kept trying to play some rap to show the boom factor. My reasoning was that the Beethoven with its extended cello parts would reflect the kind of bass that I was more likely to reproduce. I had also remembered reading that a musical sub should make even a solo flute sound better by enhancing the room ambience. I would use other music now-Shostakovich Fifteenth Symphony comes to mind-to test a sub, but the Beethoven Quartets would still be useful.
Regarding the Op. 18 works, I prefer: 1) ensembles who play them big and bold, and not like embryonic Mozart; and 2) Vibrato, please. I really dislike Quartets that eschew all vibrato (and coincidentally play at crazy speeds) and completely blow the expressive effects of the music.
My longstanding favorites are the Hungarian Quartet (stereo version)) and the Cleveland Quartet. Most of the more modern recordings I’ve heard are HIPP and therefore excluded by at least one of my criteria
Yes, I have headphones, but I still prefer the speakers. But, you’re right, without the subwoofers the sound is definitely off, lacks body..
‘Hopefully the amps will arrive today.
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