CDP or DAC?
I want to get back to playing and enjoying my 500+ cd's! Been listening 95% of the time to a nice high end turntable $15k+ setup but would also like to have the option of listening to my cd collection to where it sounds at least competitive with my vinyl enjoyment.
I have no interest in streaming just playing cd's. Does it make more sense to go with a cdp or transport and separate dac?
Budget $5 - $15k. Thoughts
I have no interest in streaming just playing cd's. Does it make more sense to go with a cdp or transport and separate dac?
Budget $5 - $15k. Thoughts
82 responses Add your response
Thank you for all that contributed to this thread. I have decided to buy a nice DAC and dedicated transport. I will be looking at Dac’s in the $5k - $8k range. So many choices! Good luck! Personally I’d look at either the PS Audio DS or one of Denafrips offerings. I have the weest model from Denafrips, the Ares II, and their Terminator regularly gets amazing reviews. |
bobheinatz OPThinking of Jay’s transport. Nice transport Bob, ( just don’t go slot loaders) but before buying check with the manufacture what the make and model no. laser is in it and then go "online" to see if they are still available easily and cheap. (not from the transport manufacture themselves, they could just have heap of NOS that aren’t available anymore) Nothing worse later on than being stuck with a good transport that needs a new laser you can get cheap/easy or even new from anywhere. Cheers George |
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For the DAC you can’t go past this then "at any price" for your 500+ CD’s , the "Holo May" R2R Multibit, Stereophile said it one of the best they’ve ever measured /heard. Then you’ve got $3k for a good transport, which is plenty. https://www.stereophile.com/content/holoaudio-may-level-3-da-processor Cheers George |
I just ordered the Bryston BCD-3 CD Player a few days ago. The majority of my listening has been listening to LPs. I like swapping cartridges (Lrya, Ortofon and Kiseki). I do have over 2000 CDs, and the many of the classical CDs are not available on vinyl. Many years ago I set up a Mac Mini music server. I bought a Wavelength Crimson Dac, and it does sound very good. There’s nothing like triode tubes for an output stage. But I haven’t used this setup in a long time. I prefer playing physical media. |
I should have also pointed out that the New Used Power Cable on the CDT is a PC Triple C Nano Treated Cable. It has had quite a impact on the CDT and the DAC, almost parity. I keep it on the CDT, as I like to think the DAC receives all the benefits of the CDT and the COAX. I am now looking to increase the quantity of these Power Cable Types used in the system. |
I can't supply a Brand Name for the DAC as it is bespoke produced design and imported to the UK from Bulgaria. The Seller on ebay is I believe known as NVKaudio and the Seller Name is nightyJJ. I was given a description that my Product is a design from a period when two Design Engineers were working together, and the Seller is one of those engineers. I have tube rolled this DAC and it is using early a Matched Pair of early 60's Siemens and Halske E88CC. Beyond the experience with it in a very expensive system, it has been demonstrated in other systems, where the system owners are very experienced in using Digital, and the responses from the listeners are very positive. A group of listeners were making up a audience on the Tube Rolling session, that took place on a System that has a Digital Front End Only. I have been informed on this occasion that I am very fortunate to have been offered the DAC. The Cable I am now using is a Mitsubishi D.U.C.C A Cable can be a make or break addition. My investigations into Modern Produced Wires and the taking the learning to the place where I am now experiencing the Wires has been quite revelatory. My OCC Copper and Silver Wires are now Superseded, and the Modern Design Wires are in place at the Cartridge Tag Wires, DIN - RCA Phono, SUT/Head Amp > Phonostage, CDT > DAC and Speaker Wires. D.U.C.C is used on the CDT > DAC and SUT/Head Amp > Phonostage . PC Triple C is used at the other Interfaces. My demonstration of these wires to others has already set of a interest and very recently I am seeing reports of a flurry of purchases that are set into motion, as a result of word of mouth reports following demonstrations I have carried out. |
I am relatively new to having a CD Replay Chain Set Up in my system. I chose not too many years ago to add a CDP and play a few CD's from the collection used in a Vehicle. A friend who was working extensively with CDP's offered myself a loan of one of their CDP's, and it was remarkably improved over my owned CDP. I went through a Period where I was looking to attempt to add streaming to the System to experience this as well, and become interested in DAC's along with the streaming. A Standalone DAC with the CDP was looking interesting as it made the Streaming method look like it was being partially prepared for . A chance offer materialised for a Bespoke Built DAC with a design that incorporated R2R, Valve Regulated Power Supply and Valve Output Stage. I took the offer and have not looked back, it was so impressive with a CDP, I went for a New CDT and chose the PS Audio PWMP. I heard the pairing in a HiFi event, where prior to be giving the demonstration of the CDT with my DAC, Vinyl Systems when combined with the Amplification and Speakers that were in use, was close to $200 000 in retail value. The Digital Set Up, when played in the System and when being compared to the very expensive Vinyl Set, was a revelation. It was a no brainer to choose the CDT as the partnering device for the DAC. I have been a 90%+ Vinyl Replay until the CDT > DAC arrived. Now I am approx' 60% Vinyl vs CD replays. I have a selection of TT's and Tone arms and a choice of Phonostages. The Digital has shown certain Vinyl Front End configurations a clean set of heels. My main used TT and Tone arm > Cartridge > Phonostage are in front of the Digital. During the A/B demonstrations of each, there are commonly a proportion of the Digital replay , that it is thought would be great if the Vinyl could match it. What is guaranteed is that if a LP or CD from the same artist is allowed to run on for an extended play time. The replay will not be wished for in the different media, either media is totally satisfying. There was a few secondary costs incurred through going down the CDT > DAC route. One: being the CD Collection is now increased 30 fold. Two: Is More Controversial', It took quite a few demonstrations with different designs of RCA COAX Umbilical Cables to find the Interface that really brought the CDT > DAC marriage to a performance that was to my unique preference. Very recently a chance materialised to try cable with a different Signal Wire incorporated into the Cables Design. This cable has been so impressive, it has superseded my previous Cable choice that I was confident that would no be surpassed, when it come to my preferences. With a prudent search, I can discover a CD that will cost very little, in many cases, less that the derivative of the deterioration of the Cartridge Stylus. Working on the Basis a Cartridge will offer a 1000's Hours of usage, a £2000 Cartridge can be a £2 per hour to use ancillary. Using a CD periodically in place of the Vinyl LP extends the period of ownership for the Cartridge, prior to it becoming candidate for overhaul or replacement. |
If it's urgent, get the Cambridge CXC used, not a bad unit and no cheap computer slot loader, proper CD transport. You'll always get your money back on it. Cheers George |
Not OP, but I'm also in the market for a CD transport and this thread has been very helpful. Currently leaning towards the PS Audio solution since it plays SACDs as well and can work with my Denafrips over I2S. Another option I've been entertaining is going "cheap" and getting a used Sony ES SACD player from Japan. I've already ripped all my CDs, but sometimes I'm looking at the wall of CDs and pick one out for fun and would rather just plop it in a player than get my phone out and scroll through to find that album to stream. |
Georgehif, I've been waiting "hopefully for not too much longer the Shiit UrD transport to be released, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/schiit-cd-transport-on-the-cards-soon" but my expectations are this will be a very long one, indeed. Since my old NAD CD player has been dead for weeks now, I may default to a Cambridge Audio model. I had been contemplating the much more costly Moon transport (supposedly, Simaudio has a 10 year stock of replacement drives and warranties mechanical parts for 3 years, whereas Cambridge is 1 year only with no assurances on mechanical parts after that), but cost is a consideration. |
CEC makes one of the best belt drive transports and CD players on the market at a price point. http://audio-union.com/audio-union/cec/ |
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You should try and get an optimised streaming device setup: it‘ll significantly outperform any CDP or server you might use. I have uploaded my CD collection to my InnuOS Zenith Mk3. After initial trials I never used it getting my playback via Qobus instead. The transfer of the CDs to the server disc was done on my modified Audioaero Capitole MkII, which to this day counts among the best CDPs. |
Physical media is not the answer if you rip your cds you can get far better sound particularly if you get a God server which sounds far superior to any pc We are in love with the Aqua hifi dacs which are Discrete ladder dacs with a fpga front end They are very analog like and are completely modular and upgradable Dave and troy Audio intellect nj 432evo server Importers and aqua hifi dealers |
I believe in diminishing returns after a certain point. I am very curious to hear the Technics SL-G-700 https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/three-sacdcd-players |
Rather than answer "CDP vs DAC" with specific suggestions, I’ll give some general thoughts on the two categories. first, you understand a CDP contains a DAC, right? So its rally just a packaging question - and comes down to what’s available int he market at various prices. Since few buy CDPs any more (the mass market has shifted to streaming entirely) DACs have more engineering behind them. Moreover, they have more "cachet" so more market emphasis. Score 1: DACs. Second, a few years back as my transport died, i ripped a large portion of my CDs, FLAC and played them form my macbook pro bitperfect. Guess what? Better every time with the SAME DAC. I can speculate on why and believe much is lower jitter with a better re clocked USB vs SPDIF which often depends on clock from the transport. For the record i have a relatively high resolving system. I also, for various reasons, have 4 DACs to compare -- two that i have largely rebuilt so they barely reflect their original condition (most having to do with power and clock). All pretty darn analog-sounding minus the compression noise and groove wear (a problem with legacy records that i simply cant tolerate). I’ll also caution you not to throw out the streaming option. Having 50,000 albums, all FLAC+ or HD, many remastered, is pretty darn nice. I switched over pretty fast - for depth of catalog, convenience, and yes, sound quality. I for the record use Tidal and am considering adding Qobuz. Bottom line: i’ go DAC. As to which one, you have to listen. I too like some of the better R2R DACs but my #2 fav happens to have a 32 bit sigma-delta chip. The real sound is made outside the chip by power supplies, filters, clocks, and analog stages. I’ll beak my rule and say, if i had a LOT of money i was willing to put into digital, I’d seriously look at the MSB R2R discrete DAC(s). Form a design perspective they appear to get everything right, except the price :-) G |
Even if your digital medium will primarily be your CD collection, you might consider ripping your CD’s to be accessed through a streaming device; this will give you future access to streaming services. But, if you insist on a CD playing device, a separate DAC of high quality will still be usable should you go to streaming. I like the Audio Note DACs—tubes give them the natural and enveloping sound often found from analogue sources. The CD player I liked the most was the Naim CDP 555. I had that player until I went with their top end streamer. It is no longer made so it probably is in your price range (it requires the pricey 555 PS power supply, which is why the combination is quite expensive). A current model CD player I like is the Lector (Italian, tube-based), another rich and warm sounding player. |
I've enjoyed the Exemplar CD players for many years. First started off with Exemplar Denon 2900 tube CD player which I still own and is still running in second system with 2 laser replacements. The Exemplar tube Oppo 105 with outboard power supply is very nice to my ears, very analog and has a nice full sound. Having the option to roll tube is also nice. I spend more time streaming now and know both CD players can become boat anchors at any moment. I hate to say it but both my turntable and CD players are starting to collect dust. |
Here is my cayin CD17 mark1 (almost same design as Mark2) in action, made this vid for sale promo, but canceled the ads. when i figured this may work in as a 2nd system later on. If I do set up a 2nd system, , I'll add the LKS Class A opamps. These high quality players are slowly fading away. Music starts at 2:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAmOC9zhS-Y |
stuartk490 posts07-17-2021 10:54pm"Unless you just like futzing with physical media there is no fundamental benefit." Well, I guess I'm old-fashioned and clearly, the "futzing" and the "benefit" are in the mind of the beholder! I like books-- forget the kindle-- and I like CDs. There's something very reassuring about being able to grab a title from a wall of cds, actually hold it in my hand, read liner notes for the umpteenth time, etc.Maybe there's ritualized aspect I find comforting but I liked analog gauges on my dashboard, way back when and I can't see that in terms of ritual. I'd rather wash a carrot and cut it up with a knife than buy a bag of pre-washed, pre-sized, pre-peeled, ready-to-eat "karits". The last thing I want is for my audio system to feel like one more damned computer interface. . .as if they're aren't enough of those that I have to contend with, already. Won't be long before we're all born with a keyboard implanted in one arm and a screen in the other. . . gonna have to memorize passwords for all the basic bodily functions... I'm in no hurry to go there ! To paraphrase the Kinks: "I'm a twenty-first century man but I don't wanna be here" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graet spot on post. Even if I had access to free streaming, , I have no interest. I'm old school. My classical cd collection, about 400+ is now complete, have 50+ LP's just picked up a used Philips turn table as added some rare LP.s But I'm a tube cdp guy I have a Cayin cd17 mark1, a Shanling 3000 (use as Transport) and a jadis JS2 Mark2 DAC. I like the fact all 3 units can take the new high tech opamps, , Tried a 2 types, just landed a 3rd type which is much better the JFET's, off Ebay, Real nice high tech china opamps. All 3 units sound very close, But there is a nuance gain in one over the other. Obviously the Jadis has superior components, but honestly both the cayin and Shanling off 1st Class AAA sonic fidelity. = All 3 have very music DAC's. I'm not into all these new high end expensive DAC's. The only other DAC/cdp tahts interests me (Other than Jadis' cd player) is the PL cdp and DAC. Very nice design . Super build, super DAC. So yeah, tube cdp/tube DAC, very musical and when you tweak with JFET's Class A , you really up the gains. I'm running 4 duals in the Jadis DAC. Shanling takes like 8 singles, 4 duals, and the Cayin 4 singles 2 duals. So cost layout is expensive but well worth the easy upgrade. https://www.ebay.com/itm/274403974731 |
I listen to cheaper vinyl rig rega RP8 with apheta MC... But now get same enjoyment from cd listening to pro-ject rs2 cd box transport £2k with chord qutest DAC (which I had already for streamer) ... Although the pro-ject DAC allows IS2 hdmi Connection. Other makes I looked at but. V expensive in UK were Cec I like the pro-ject as top loading but sound is amazing |
I’d go with “georgehifi” and “melm” - rip your cd’s to FLAC files on a solid state drive (not hard drive) and play via a good streamer to an R2R dac like Holo Audio, Denafrips, AGD, Yggdrasil, or the bargain MHDT. I use the Bryston BDP-2 to the Yggy - and never look back! Can’t beat the sound or the convenience. |
@aolmrd1241 Yes, of course. My Oppo 105 has had streaming for a long long time. But the question for me is always SQ, just like whether reading data off a CD or off an HD yields better SQ. Will the combo unit stream as well as a dedicated streamer--always remembering that the quality of the bits delivered to the DAC matters. What I meant to say was obsolete was the use of disk readers, except for ripping. |
@aolmrd1241… Good point… perhaps that is not as well known as I thought. I assumed at this point most high end companies have positioned their CD players to be DAC / CD players. When I bought a Sim Moon 650D about ten years ago it was advertised as a DAC with a transport. As I have pointed out elsewhere, I use my ARC CD9se as a DAC and seldom use the transport. I haven’t done a lot of research on other CD players. But I would think anyone in the market for a CD player are auditioning it as a DAC as well. A CD player is a one box mechanical transport, dedicated streamer and DAC. |
if not a modwright modded or vsei sony i originally suggested... https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649751607-luxman-d03x/?utm_source=featured_ad&utm_medium=web... https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649756954-esoteric-x-03se-sacd-player-special-edition/ https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649748427-esoteric-k-03-cd-player-excellent-condition/ oh, and btw, most decent cd players have at least 1 or 2 digital outputs, so you can still use an outboard dac if you wish, now or later no time warp 😄 |
Go with separate transport and dac. Check out the Wyred for sound 10th anniversary dac, one of the reviewers put it up against his VPI turntable with a $5,000 Japanese cartridge and he said it was every bid as analog sounding and I have the dac as well and I totally agree, it's not cheap it's $4,500 US but it beat up on a lot more expensive dacs from Cos, Mytek,Chord,SimAudio. |
I realize that everyone’s entitled to his or her opinion. BUT this thread gives me the impression that some contributors are in a time warp writing as though it’s 10 or 15 years ago. Physical media has really gone the way of the 8-track tape, except for delivering the media to you, but not to your DAC. The music can be entirely yours if you copy your disks, buy new ones and copy (though I prefer buying used CDs) or download music files from commercial sites. Most who commit to hard disk have a backup disk. They’re cheap enough. You will also have the opportunity to stream. Some like to do that at intervals to try out music for eventual purchase. Also, not all bits are the same. It matters how the bits are managed as they flow into your DAC. The "bits are bits" argument was settled a long time ago. It is simply not true. A very good disk player that would be required to meet your standard will be quite expensive, is already obsolete, and can be outperformed in SQ by more up to date devices once your media is on hard disk. Finally, as so often happens here, many are advising you buy what they have bought and what pleases them. You have to figure out what you what in a digital set-up to meet your needs. It's easily as complicated these days, maybe more, than picking a TT, arm, cartridge and phono pre. |
@fred60, I have the new PS Audio PST SACD transport connected to my Holo May KTE using I2S. The Holo May KTE has 4 user selectable I2S configurations and Alt #2 works without a glitch with the new PS Audio transport. I've played both regular CDs and SACDs with no issues. The sound of this combination is fantastic! @bobheinatz, I highly recommend the Holo May KTE and PS Audio SACD transport. You'll be able to play CDs and SACDs plus if you want to get into streaming later, you can do that as well. The May has 2 I2S input connections as well as USB, coax and a few others. I have a highly tweaked streaming setup: Router extender > Triode Wire Labs ethernet cable > Finisar SM Optical transreceiver > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe with Uptone LPS 1.2 linear PS > OS fiber optic cable > Finisar SM optical transreceiver > Etherregen with Paul Hynes SR4T LPS and AfterDark OCXO clock with its own Paul Hynes SR4T LPS, Triode Wire Labs ethernet > Aurender N100H > Curious Evolved USB > Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker> Curious USB > Holo May KTE. All components are connected to my Equi=Tech 2RQ balanced power conditioner. I stream Qobuz with the above setup and the SQ is excellent as it should be given the plus $15K cost including the May KTE. The PS Audio SACD transport and the May KTE are $11.5K and they will provide sound that is a bit better than my streaming setup (I think). I'm also a analog guy at heart. I have a Rega P10/Apheta 3 and a Linn LP12 w/Ekos SE arm, Radikal PS, Keel chassis, with the Luxman EQ-500 and Zesto Andros vacuum tube phono stages. My digital streaming setup and my PS Audio transport/DAC compete very well with my analog setup. So if you're looking for a CD transport/ DAC setup that will complete with your analog system, I highly recommend PS Audio SACD transport and the Holo May KTE DAC. I also considered the less expensive Jays Audio transport but I wanted the PS Audio's SACD capability and the cost difference wasn't a big deal for me. |
Personally going through the same decision. After thinking of options over a long time, have come to the conclusion that I am going to audition the new Esoteric K-05XD (and 07XD) when it comes out later this year. The K-03XD has gotten rave reviews, but it’s out of my price range ($15K). You might want to consider it. I came to the conclusion since I thought that for $7.5K-10K (not sure what MSRP will be exactly for the 2 units), you get probably the best CD transport on the planet, plus a phenomenal DAC. Only downside is they are not separate. But it does have all kinds of digital inputs, including USB (but not IS2). Part of the reason I’m going this direction is that I do want an SACD capable transport, there aren’t many, I think just PS Audio and McIntosh. And with each of those, you essentially have to go with their DAC to get the proprietary hand-off for pure DSD. |
