Gun to your head, if you could only pick one, which would you choose. As nostalgic and sublime as Vinyl can be I think I'd have to go with Cd's. Just seems cleaner and more pristine to me.
Based on "rumours" I did some research - current estimates are that 30-50% of LP buyers do not own a turntable - they are buying LP like some buy books simply to decoratively fill a bookcase or record shelf...
However, this is a very misleading statistic.
Those people buying vinyl for decoration, or similar purpose, are usually only buying a fairly low number of LP’s per year.
Those of us that buy vinyl to listen to, who own turntables, are buying a fairly high number of LP’s per year.
Even for me, as someone who has vastly curtailed my vinyl purchasing (I still buy tons of CD’s however), still buy dozens of LP’s per year.
I have a good friend, who I am willing to bet, buys more LP’s in an average weekend, than the vast majority of those buying them just to display, buy in an entire year.
So, in other words, even if 50% of the vinyl purchasing public are buying them only to display, does not mean they are buying 50% of the LP’s being purchased.
I cannot imagine a record sounding as good as a SACD on a high end player. Most of these newer SHM CD's are great too. The 24 bit remastered Redbooks also. Gave up vinyl 40 years ago.
Unfortunately it has always been the most expensive music medium, but you can’t knock it. For home use it can be as good as it gets.
For me, this rings true as most of the music l collect on vinyl and CD comes from original film soundtracks from 15 or 7 1/2 ips studio masters.
There is just something there, hard to explain with archival master tapes that have been carefully stored. Even commercial 1/4” tapes from the 60s and 70s on 7 1/2 ips 4 track, and pre Dolby can surprise.
It’s always a good sound idea, if affordable, to not limit yourself to just one format.
And not only because of the SQ... changing from one side to another every 20 minutes, no thanks... It's true that a few very well recorded LPs may sound more realistic than the corresponding CDs, but this is not a typical situation at all.
I think you nailed it with your valid answer as asked for by the OP. You have put in perspective what the original question was all about, but have clouded the water so to speak.
Your quote…“It’s true that a few very well recorded LPs may sound more realistic than the corresponding CDs” Very useful information for those on the fence.
From my perspective, it doesn’t bother me having to change sides every 20 minutes. What is most important is the sound quality, not an inconvenience.
lf anyone owns a lot of really well recorded LPs, and are not bothered by the inconvenience of 20 minute turnovers…. then analogue, with it’s potential (as mentioned above) “can sound more realistic”, is arguably the winner over digital
If you would have asked me a year ago I’d have answered definitely CD, but I actually heard a system with a newer TT and clean records. Sure there was a click or two, but the sound was surprisingly good. TT, arm and cartridge all together maybe in the $1200 range and the other equipment was vintage.
@mylogic, If the cracks, dust cleaning and demagnetizing LPs does not bother you and you can completely concentrate during 20 minutes of listening, and if you have a super TT and really well-recorded LPs, then you will have an advantage in listening to these LPs over the corresponding CDs. But bear in mind that for the most of the classical rock and even jazz and classical music LPs, the corresponding CDs sound better defined.
Kind of funny that Von Karajan was quoted as saying that Cd sounds better than vinyl. Ray Charles once said that digital kills the music. Both of these men would likely have very keen hearing. Ironically, any Von Karajan recordings that I have are on vinyl and are very well recorded and pressed. I do not own any Ray Charles recordings but I'm sure he was a stickler for quality recording.
In the last year, I changed my preamp from SS to tube, likely a bit of an upgrade from what I used for the prior 20 years or so. My phono preamp has been a tube unit for about the same 20 years. During that 20 year period, I would have said that Cd was a big step down from the vinyl. With the addition of the tube preamp, it is a much smaller step. I'm able to enjoy Cd's a lot more than I used to and with all the tube rolling that I've been doing, in and out, I have found a great deal more detail in at least some Cd's. Most of the ones that were made in the beginning to replace old worn records, were terrible. Not so anymore. It's getting closer.
All that said, I still prefer vinyl 80% to 90% of the time but it is getting a lot closer. I do not stream and maybe I never will. Like a lot of other old timers on here, my collection and my setup is heavily geared toward LP's. I do see a lot of guys who are like myself in listening tastes and many are now streaming. I'm sure there is something to it but I really don't care. Like many here, I have a pretty extensive collection of Cd's and vinyl and will probably never stop buying more. Cd's are practically being given away and so is some old vinyl. As long as people think they can live without them, I'll be happy to buy them up. I've never sold a single album and do not regret that in any way.
Look at the old rock stars vinyl collections. There is something to it. I and many others have amazed many listeners over the years. It never gets old.
@niodari “If the cracks, dust cleaning and demagnetizing does not bother you….”
All the above don’t bother me. As regards to the demagnetising, l never do that, never had a problem with static at all. I use new plastic liners on all new records if they have paper or cardboard inners. I would estimate that half of the LPs are 40-60 years old as l specialise in a certain genre and type of music. Most have not altered at all in this time playback wise.
Too much worrying about a little bit of noise seams to be an all time consuming nonsense for some people. The music itself drags me away from any of that. I compare it with driving. Do you look at the windscreen and any dirt or blemishes on it continually when you drive? Or do you view ahead and look through the windscreen and focus towards the business end…at the traffic ahead of you?. There is no difference in my view with playing and enjoying music.
The secret for me is not accepting a poor pressing, return it. I only ever consider keeping a less than perfect copy unless it is collectable or rare. Live with the imperfections.
My type of music l have is spread between LP, Reel to Reel, CD, SACD or DvdA. I never bother to stream but I’ll take whatever physical medium is available for the music l want. LP or CD are the two main contenders, but l find that LP reproduces the more emotional end product.
CDs normally fill the gaps for me when l can’t source a reasonably priced LP, or the music has never been released on LP.
@billpeteLove your comments. Keep up the education. Never sell those albums.
@mylogic, I like your remark to "live with imperfections" (I am often envious of a stamp whom I see in the street). The less we depend on our environment, the better for us. Though, if the windscreen of your car has too much of dirt, you won't be able to drive, or you will need to lower your speed to an inconvenient level.
When I miss the analog sound, honestly, I prefer to use of type deck, which sounds really nice on many of the cassettes that I have. I can't really say that the LPs I have sound better on the turntable that I have.
@niodari”When l miss analogue… l prefer to use a (cassette) tape deck”
An interesting subject and your comments should not be overlooked.
l did not include a cassette deck in my choices as l do not own many pre-recorded tapes. l also agree with its potential as a source of enjoyment if you purchased a lot of pre-recorded music. Cassettes in the 80s actually took over market share from LPs. It would be a shame to loose that tactile memory of youth and all the memories that can add so much to the music.
l have a couple of Tandberg cassette recorders. The TCD330 was a 3 head and the best l could afford in the 80s, which was a golden era in the format. The best it got for most brands before CD broke through. The 330 had the facility to set the tape head azymuth. A signal was generated, recorded and played back simultaneously so that adjustments could be made to optimise each tape before recording.
One thing l did notice was that some pre-recorded cassettes were not up to “scratch” so to speak. I believe cassettes were recorded at high speed to increase productivity, so sonically there was some loss in sound quality. I remember a friend of mine wanted a better recording of the “Live and Let Die” soundtrack as the cassette sounded “dull” I covered the anti recording slots and recorded from LP over the original programme. It was noticeably better.
I used my cassette recorders for compilations, live radio shows and one off TV programmes. Cassette had its day and was a very useful convenient medium that was capable of realistic playback, and for a relatively small cost. The nostalgic qualities it triggers should you have sufficient recorded material can not be ignored.
@mylogicThanks for the encouragement. No worries, I will never sell my vinyl collection. I give away Cd's now and then, extras or ones that never get played.
@niodariCassettes are a great medium. As mylogic posted, with 3 head decks, can be very good indeed. I used to record all of my new records onto cassettes and then play the cassettes most of the time to save my records from wear. I gave up on that idea when cassette decks started eating the tapes. My son still has a cassette deck in his system and has a lot of tapes. My wife has one in her office system. I do not have one in mine. With a good operating deck, it is still a very fine way to listen to music.
I really don't understand all the talk about the inconvenience of playing records or owning them or for that matter, owning any media like Cd's, tapes or whatever. I'm old and retired and I am not so busy that I can't take time out of most days (evenings, normally), to spin some records or put on a Cd or two. Having thousands of records and hundreds of Cd's, it's hard enough to decide what it is that I want to hear. I think I'd be lost with streaming. Having too many choices might not work for me, don't know and am not likely to ever try. I do find things on Youtube now and then, listen on my computer and if I like it, I'll buy it on Cd or vinyl or both. Anyway, just a few ramblings from an old time avid listener. Enjoy the music, no matter how you choose to listen. It's all good.
@mylogic, I agree that cassettes are good alternatives to LPs. The only problem I face now is the maintenance/repair of type decks (also that of cassettes). The Pioneer CT-F1250 that I bought used is a completely wonderful deck, in both, the reproduction and recording, but when it works properly. If failed some time ago but after some cleaning it recuperated, however, it started to fail again. The mechanics, fast-forward, rewind, were too weak from the beginning. Finding parts and repair is a problem. I have also Nakamichi CD2, one of their latest models, it works properly. Sound reproduction and recording are ok but just incomparable with the Pioneer. So, it makes not much sense to use it.
@billpete, You may still try to stream with the autoplay on. Take your favorite group/musician, once the reproduction is complete, Tidal, at least gives a nice selection of "similar type" of music. I thought that the blues was dead, but thanks to the steaming, I learned that there are young good bluesmen, similarly in jazz (unfortunately, the rock seems to be basically dead except that some old guys still continue to produce, good examples are Robert Plant and Ian Anderson (pity that Ozzy Osbourne just passed away).
PS I just auditioned two well-recorded cassettes on the (properly functioning) Nakamichi deck, Thelonious Monk XDR on Blue Note and I am still listening to Pat Metheny's Secret Story, comparing to the CD version via streaming on Tidal. Streaming has a bit more defined sound reproduction but also brighter and more agresive, while the deck gives more peaceful and softer sound (a rough comparison, SS vs tube sound). The current setting is with a tube amp.
Which one do i like more? Honestly, I enjoy more the cassette, and this with the Nakamichi (with the Pioneer, which does not now reproduce well, there would be an even more clearer cassette preference).
It sounds like the Pioneer problems with wind and rewind are slipping belts. If this is the case l suggest some research on eBay. There are lots of compatible parts for cassette players, CD and DVD players that incorporate some belts. Your deck may even be listed with a full service set.
Tandberg cassette decks always had separate motors directly driving those functions which also resulted in rapid forward and reverse times. These motors cleverly slowed down near the ends of the spools to avoid snatching. If the Pioneer did this (like Tandberg) it may be some sensor problems. So get the cover off and have a look, new belts would be an easy fix
With regard to claiming “l cannot imagine a record player” sounding comparable to a SACD on a high end player. Maybe it does or maybe it doesn’t, and you admit you don’t really know. I can only assume you are thinking of 40 years ago?
One thing l do know is that phono amps have advanced technically a long way in 40 years. Most record decks back then (and a high probability yours) in general, were matched with amplifiers having variable quality onboard MM and MC inputs. Modern high quality phono amps are a stand alone different breed, designed just for that one purpose.
@mylogic, Thanks indeed for the suggestions, I'll try to get deeper into it. My main concern with the Pioneer deck now is not the fails in ff and rev (which one can still tolerate), the problem is in the playback, the sound is dull with a very narrow frequency range. This happened also before, but typically, after several tries the reproduction was getting normal. The Pioneer is also direct drive, like your Tandberg - I'll try to check the belts and sensors, and probably the motors you mentioned also need repair/substitution.
Thank you for the personal message. Sorry to say that I could not reply directly to you as l do not have an authorised account to do so. I don’t give my phone number out or share my financial details for payment methods with any forums, or other organisations unless it’s absolutely essential. I can’t see the need for that…. A bit like “big brother” antics. That probably explains why l do not receive unwanted calls and scams.
Interesting to see what you said and l appreciate the information, and your personal choices in equipment feedback.
When cds came out ,I said I only like vinyl lps...everyone said ,you don't know anything.....now vinyl in ,buy the prices...please don't tell me ,with inflation there the same....please...like a jerk I sold my lps because my ex said you don't need them cds are better...yeah ok so I sold them...divorced her...and rebuilt collection cheap...but then cds were like used for a buck....well I been buying like crazy....and have thousands....so I like both...but a buck for a cd ...come on man...lol
I just added a DVD player Denon model 2800, which is formatted for HDCD. It replaces my Denon 20 bit Cd player, which I used for over 20 years. It was a very fine Cd player but is getting old and has had a couple problems over the years. One dirty pot, simple fix and most recently the Cd tray often closes immediately upon opening. Annoying but other than that, it's been fine.
I was noticing that several of my latest Cd purchases have been HDCD's. I thought most of them sounded very good on the old 20 bit Denon but maybe not better than other Cd's that had been well recorded. Adding the HDCD player to the system changed that. They are really very very good and now getting very close to or nearly equaling what comes from the best vinyl recordings. Very interesting, indeed. All this fun for buying an old DVD/HDCD player for $40 on ebay. Came with no remote and a missing stop button but was guaranteed to work with a remote, just didn't include one. I bought a remote for I think $15, also on ebay. My wife and I were pretty well blown away but what we heard last night, listening to Cd's that we're buying for $1 or $2 each on a bargain Cd player. Fun stuff.
I just watched a YouTube review of a new Maxell portable cassette player. You already know how that went. I was really hoping to play my new Peter Murphy cassette on it.
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