Really, your subs are great! You are set. All that with the DEQX system blending it together will be fantastic. Ozzy, what state are you in?
Carver Amazing Line Source Speakers
Since I now own the Carver Raven 350 amps, I have become very interested in the Carver Amazing Line Source speakers. But I have not been able to actually hear them.
Can anyone who has heard them comment as to the sound quality?
Thank you
ozzy
Can anyone who has heard them comment as to the sound quality?
Thank you
ozzy
124 responses Add your response
Having owned Accoustat 2 + 2s and Magnepan 3.5Rs (both of which I consider room dividers) and.having been involved with Nearfield Acoustics Pipedreams (I avd their $10K introductory speaker), as well as the early prototypes of Scaena Loudspeakers,, I really appreciate slim designs, which physically don't draw attention to themselves, while throwing concert size sound stages I expect you will be very happy. |
tweak1, Thanks. Some of the speakers I have owned are Von Schweikert, Eggleston Andra 2's and Legacy Focus. My present DIY versions are better than them all. I considered many other types but I too like the small footprint of the Carvers. And, since I already own the Carver Raven 350's I am assuming they should play well together. I hope they are shipped Monday... ozzy |
@ozzy Interesting DIY project! I've done very similar, but using Mundorf AMT's and Clarity caps which I prefer over the top of the line Mundorfs. I can honestly say that after going to two shows here in the Northern California area there's not a pair of speakers I would trade them for, regardless of cost. Part of it is livability, being an apartment dweller I have no place for monster speakers, but most of it is simply sound quality and pride of ownership. They sound exactly like I want them to. Also, the ScanSpeak mid-woofers are among the best sounding drivers I have ever heard. Wilson used to think so too. :) I don't have a system page, but I do have the design of the speakers up on my blog: https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/ The Mundorf AMT's are flat to past 20 kHz, have almost no energy storage/resonance, and amazing dynamic range and power handling without compression. |
analogluvr, Thanks. I think so too. Bob Carver to me is a creative genius who thinks and designs outside the norm. I really like that. erik_squires, Yes, DIY speakers have many possibilities. (You can see my finished version in my systems page). The only thing that I was unsure of was my ability to make quality looking cabinets. But I found at Parts Express some fantastic black gloss cabinets about the right size that I needed. However, I don’t think they offer them anymore. I actually thought of trying to make a line source speaker too, but Bob Carver’s long traveled experience made me go the easy route. (Although much more expensive). ozzy |
Ozzy I've been living with the ALS for 9 months now. It's better than my $40k Raidho speakers. However, speaker placement and room acoustics in addition to amplification plays a critical role in how they sound. Most past shows demonstrating these speakers were got mixed reviews but the last AXPONA show they sounded decent. Imho, I've haven't heard a better overall speaker regardless of price. |
Ozzy, Your speakers are probably sitting at the nearest R&L place. They are waiting for other things to be delivered near you. I had this happen many years ago. I ordered two Larger VMPS subs and they sat there 15 miles from my home. The carrier told me they didn't know when they would get them to me. I asked if I could pick them up and they were very happy to have that happen. A friend and I got them in a truck the next day. Now I'm not saying you should go get them, but find out where they are. Chances are they are close. |
koestner, Thanks I’m sure your right, saving money over customer service. Poor combo. I just hate all the lying. Depending upon who you talk to the story changes. The tracking info on their site no longer shows any movement since last Friday stating they arrived at the destination terminal. Today, I was told the tracking is incorrect and that they just received them at the destination terminal today. (Even though their tracking site shows received at destination site last Friday) I just hope they haven’t been damaged and they are trying to deceive me. So, I don’t really know where they are or when I will receive them. All I know is if I have a choice in the future I will not use R&L carriers. ozzy |
Ozzy, your room dimensions are similar to mine, but I have 10 foot ceiling. However, Bob designed the ALS to work with 8 foot ceiling so that it may be of benefit to you. Good to see you have the four corners of the room treated. I've found placing absorption panels in front of and slightly behind the speakers along the side walls (to absorb some of the sound from the side firing drivers) to be beneficial reducing some of the huge amount of spacial cues these speakers can generate. It focuses and gives more solidity to the images, especially vocals. Also having absorption panel in the center of your front wall behind the speakers will improve image focus and solidity. But you'll have to experiment. My room is a combination of aborption and diffusion panels. Also placing the speakers out into the room as much as you can, really helps the sound stage. I have mine out about 10 feet into the room and 3 feet away from the side walls. Obviously, the Ravens are a great match for the ALS. |
Sorry, But it's not just R&L. In my story I don't remember the trucking company, but it was clear they won't send the truck to my house unless there is other stuff in my area to be delivered. This isn't UPS or FedEx where there is always lots of stuff to be delivered in your area every day. I think it sucks, but the dispatcher would be fired if they went back and forth with each delivery everyday. |
The lady at the Detroit R&L terminal was EXTREMLY RUDE! I filed a complaint about her attitude. There is no reason for that... ok, enough said about that. But, I did receive the speakers today! ...Yippe- Kiyaa! They were not difficult to set up and also not as tall as I thought they would be. So no problem at all with my 92" ceilings. But I can tell that I need to play around with placement and it’s various settings. I am also surprised how much bass the speakers have by themselves. Almost no need for subwoofers. I’ll need to calibrate my subs better. Also, I’m assuming that the speakers will need about a month of breakin. ozzy |
Congratulations Ozzy. Usually from the 4 ohm taps, you will get less volume level so you may need to goose the volume control higher. I tried the 4 and 8 ohm taps on my McIntosh amp and after living with both for a month, went back to 8 ohms as it sounded a little more dynamic to me and the bass was definitely deeper.. |
Ozzy, the ALS is nominally 8 ohm so the 8 ohm tap is the right choice. Bob confirmed this with me. If you go with 4 ohm, it would probably will not sound as open or transparent. But it won't hurt the amp or speakers if you try. In most cases the higher tap will sound better if you can get away with it, unless you have a 1 ohm speaker like the Apogee Scintilla. Then you'd need the 1 ohm tap on your amp. |
Stereo5, dracule1, Thank you I'll use the 8 ohm tap. I do notice that the meter on the Raven 350 really bounces a lot now. Since I don't have the Carver Rosa subs and I am using (2) JL Audio F-113's subs (with my DEQX Preamp with its built in electronic crossover) any suggestion as to the crossover points? ozzy |
Ozzy, I personally would not use the DEQX preamp built in crossover. I'm a minimalist at heart and don't like what the DEQX does. I would connect your JLA sub amp to the the Raven amp via the high level connection using speaker wire (assuming the JLA sub accepts high level input, if not use the low level connection RCA/XLR). It is considered by many to be the best way to integrate subwoofer to the main speaker. I would go through the built in calibration of the JLA sub amp and then crossover at around 70 Hz as a start. Then you'll need to play with the phase (start at 0) and crossover freq to get the most integrated and quickest bass response from the subs. It's a lot of work. If you don't have an SPL meter and want to do it by ear, get a nice head phone with a flat freq response (Senheiser etc). Head phones are immune to room induced bass resonances. Listen to a piece of music with a lot of acoustic bass instruments. Compare the same music to what you hear through the head phone and through your speakers and get the speakers sounding as close to possible to the headphone bass. Hope this helps. |
musicmann1, Out of the box they did not sound too good. The treble was peaked and the mid/bass sounded kind of hollow. I now have about 30 hours of playing time on them and they have improved sonically. So, I'm thinking with all the drivers, caps wire etc. they will need about 100+ hours of playing time to really evaluate. ozzy |
Ozzy, the ALS does not sound good out of the box. You may even think there’s something wrong with the speakers. The sound will be too diffuse and the instruments won’t sound correct. It’ll almost sound like a defective Bose 901 at first. I notice improvement after 20 hours of continuous play with dynamic music. It will continue to improve to the 100 hour mark and will start leveling off. I wouldn’t consider them broken in until you hit 150 hrs. When fully broken in, You’ll need to fine tune with the high freq and bass controls as their level is dependent on your room and electronics. The midrange control to me is not helpful. I have it dialed to 0. |
Thank you guys for the break in time information. I have always believed in break in time being so important. I have found that to be true with cables and electronics. Jordon from Carver said that break in is a myth and does not apply to the Carver speakers. And he said that he has tested many items and has not found any evidence that break in occurs. He said we eventually get used to the sound, our brains break in to the new sound. But he is only 25 years old and in my opinion is spreading bad outdated information. Just because we can’t measure breakin doesn’t mean it occurs. Perhaps we don’t have equipment that can measure it, but our ears and brains can detect it. I trust more in the opinions of us old (around the block a few times) audio gurus than the flat earth group. And... the speakers are improving with more hours on them. ozzy |
Unfortunately, engineers, especially the ones who graduated just from college, only believe in what they can measure on the scope. Break in as far as speakers are concerned is real, just like an old worn leather shoe feels much more comfortable than than a new one. The suspension of the the speaker driver including the surround and spider need to loosen up. Almost all speakers I've ever owned in the past 30+ years showed a dramatic improvement in sound after break in period. |
IME, 25 year olds barely know where their wieners are much less anything else. My speakers are older than him, and they sounded like crap when I first got them to the point that I almost returned them. My speakers are 2-way towers and took about 400 hours to settle in and over 100 hours before I could even begin to enjoy listening to them. How many drivers do your speakers have??? Give it some time Bro. |
soix, Thanks for your comments. Each speaker has 13 tweeters, one supertweeter and 18 midwoofers. So there is a lot of piston area to break in. Each day after I have run the Purist break in disc for hours I find that the speakers are getting better and better. The tweeters still seem a little hot but much less than the day before etc. But, I have the tweeter, midrange and bass controls set for maximum during the break in process. ozzy |
Latest Update on the Carver ALS Speakers. I now have about 100 hours of playing time on the Carver ALS speakers. To my displeasure they initially exhibited upper treble brightness and a low output level. The upper treble I thought would clear up with more break in time. But the low output concerned me. I tried everything including moving these tall heavy monsters back and forth in the room for optimum room placement. I had to crank the Ravens nearly to the max to get anything close to my usual high-level setting that I sometimes used with my previous DIY speaker. And, the Carver amp meter was pegging and it blew 4 fuses! (Luckily, I had the forethought to remove my SR blue fuses until everything settles). I thought to myself surely these speakers could not be this inefficient! I was very disappointed. But, Bob Carver said that he would refund my money if I was not satisfied. So that was reassuring. I wanted to give them a fair shot,these speakers have been demonstrated many times in large rooms with 30-60 people and the 2015 Audiophile review talks about running these speakers with Carver’s 20-watt tube amps, then why was I getting such a low output with an amp that can output 350 watts? Were they defective? It drove me crazy… Well, I had an epiphany yesterday morning and remembered that the DEQX manual said something about internal jumpers to increase/decrease the output. So, I took the DEQX apart thinking that a change in the jumper settings may increase the output. Once inside I discovered that the DEQX preamp had some internal output jumpers that were in the wrong place! Instead of being 6 installed in the output jumper spaces there were only 4 and the other 2 were put in the RCA input section. Leaving the output without 2 key jumpers. I will add that I bought this unit used from the Music Room. The previous owner must have moved the jumpers. It turns out this is also why I had hiss with the Carver amps when I initially turned them on using the balanced outputs from the DEQX with my previous DIY speakers. I thought the hiss was because the Carver amps were not a true balanced design. Using the single ended (RCA) DEQX outputs to the Carver Amps removed the hiss and I thought solved the problem, but I really didn’t understand why. Now I do, there were jumpers missing in the DEQX output section! Funny though, the DEQX jumper situation didn’t really surface until I got the Carver speakers. So full circle as the saga goes and once the jumpers were installed in the appropriate positions everything that once sounded like crap now became interesting, exciting and emotional! I am now very pleased with the sound of the Carver speakers. Whew! ozzy |