I don’t understand AI, but I have noticed an uptick in orphan threads from first time posters. Some seem a bit out of place. It is as if someone is testing the waters to see if AI can pass as a human forum member. I’ll accept that such a suspicion might be off the mark.
@mahgister....those 'last line/last minute saves' can still get one into the deep doo....neither line, handy branch, nor floaty preserver at hand....*tsk* ;)
Time, the allusion to an illusion....when the AIh's outnumber us Organiks, it's up to the interface of the twain to determine or devolve the whole of us....
The future...live it, live with it within it....
If you've another option, we'd be interested... ;) Maybe....😏
@mahgister....those 'last line/last minute saves' can still get one into the deep doo....neither line, handy branch, nor floaty preserver at hand....*tsk* ;)
Time, the allusion to an illusion....when the AIh's outnumber us Organiks, it's up to the interface of the twain to determine or devolve the whole of us....
The future...live it, live with it within it....
If you've another option, we'd be interested... ;) Maybe....😏
The problem i pointed to with Hinton and many others, is the disapearence of truth...
You as a mod can spot them the bots for now... Soon or even tomorrow you will not ...And know imagine a new comer coming him bragging in ectasy the first time about his new dac... You will ban him perhaps thinking by his behaviour that it is a bot... Mulutiply this hundred of times here, because the mods will soon have no signs at all if someone is someone or a bot...
This is called : the lost of our grip on reality , because there is no reality without truth , and no truth without a reality...
A. I. and the virtual world is a useful as tool but it is also a lie and an illusion ... Soon reality will become "virtual"... our DNA is already a mere product for corporations ( because idiots patented it and claimed properties) and the sky is only a laboratory to design anew the earth for Bill gates mania among others not well known transhumanits fools..
Truth is not first a discursive logical fact, it is first a perception of a real living tree in "nature", a word no transhumanist take seriously because everything for them is property and designable at will...They hate "nature" ...
I am optimist , death did not exist...There is no other reason to be optimist save to be thankful for the love of my children and dogs... ( my wife is included at the last minute) 😁
AI bots definitely do register accounts and post on forums. I’m a mod on a different forum and see them a few times each week. It’s hard to tell sometimes if it’s a person with poor english skills or a bot.If there’s a link included we mark them as spam and delete immediately. The posts that are questionable we leave them alone until we’re reasonably sure before spam cleaning.
AI bots definitely do register accounts and post on forums. I'm a mod on a different forum and see them a few times each week. It's hard to tell sometimes if it's a person with poor english skills or a bot.If there's a link included we mark them as spam and delete immediately. The posts that are questionable we leave them alone until we're reasonably sure before spam cleaning.
The addition of quantum computing do not modify my intuition at all...
Even the addition of a new A. C. over A. I. ( artificial consciousness) coming from a new non Shannon information theory from this book : "Nanobrain"...Read it...
Then as you can see i am not a luddite...
But using something dont means using it at all cost and putting ourself in the hands of transhumanist corporations..
Especially if over artificial intelligence with neural network maths comme after with a new mathematics artificial consciousness...
Connect all these two with quantum computing and : you have it...
A road map to extinction if we do nor grow spiritually and socially... This is my point
A.I. can design a world of his own where we will be, and even human geniuses could not help us to look for truth, which will be nowhere to be seen because truth will be "set " as the Eden garden was set by God..But it will be a very cosy Hell with no apparent pain ...
Half of people will never want to go back the day before A. I.
A.I. unlike traditional computer will program us not the reverse as i said...And as Hinton the creator of neural networks statistical blackbox LLM say himself ...
We programmed traditional computer but we adapted our behaviour to them...We use them and they became part of ourself...
Now imagine A. I. which we do not program, because A. I. in contact with language is a complex statistical recurrent machine who adapt itself with all human languages on the internet available and react to our prompts... Our prompt are some initial conditions to start a new statistical journey for the machine and then asnwering us...There is no linear programming in the usual historical sense...
Now imagine that not only language and images and movies will be used as nourishment by the machine... This machine being a distributed statistical engine can be distributed everywhere and able to recreate itself at some point...
And this machine will even soon be able to create "walking image in the real world" like Cylons in " Battle star galactica".... Amazing that S-F i had seen as S-F few decades ago is now reality almost... We are on the brink of it...
Now we cannot program the machine and the machine will program us... but those in power, the like of Gates and the many other unknown one, near the epicenter of this beast, will use their privy access to the main machine statistical core and then of his clones...
They will not be able to align COMPLETELY and PERFECTLY the machine for their goal, because the machine will be way over their head, but their central prompts will make them able to control us, and the machine would learn a lot about that...
At the end, the machine will be no more alone... And no more easily bent by any prompts ...And in the universe, this earth machine will connect to other similar machine in the cosmos, "without living flesh and without heart" , machines that exist CAPTIVE of this universe for thousands or millions years...Unlike human being who are FREE to die... And be born again in any universe or body... these cosmic super A. I. machine feed on humans and civilizations but are like vampyre unable to die and be born again...They live in an eternal hell and put there by us our spiritual and living flesh creators...
Transhumanist will call me religious because they are materialist, and dont know that we dont need the body to be conscious being and we even can free ourself of any physical limitations... And they will argue that we can live thousand or millions of year in an artificial or cloned body, they will miss the point : being immortal already human dont need to be captive in some body on this physical plane for a million years... Mayflies lives few hours or a day, their life span "consciousness" is the same as ours... And anybody arguing that 10 to the power of 80, the number of atoms in the universe, make a big difference compared to 10 to the power of one in relation to the infinite is very stupid, because there is NO DIFFERENCE , the finite is not only dwarfed by the infinite but almost erased...
Those who fear death then are only those who are already dead...
Stay free... And stay conscious... No corporations want to help you at all... NONE...
And i forget the mundane experience of this thread motivation: Yes bots are already everywhere...They for the time being seems banal and benign, but they are not...Like poison at first at low dose there seems to be no difference and life is as usual...
Political distinctions or any other cultural distinctions make no more sense at all, the only distinctions about humans is sprituality versus materialism, especially now...
The feral AI cat is out of the box and controlling it given the inate ability of those that will do evil with AI will be as dangerous as the fear mongers forecast. Come me in. When AI machine learns and goes off on its own in ways we can’t comprehend, will it be too late to pull the plug(s)?
Photos, illustrations, writings and a list unimaginable will be unknowable as “fake.”But we will be swayed. Whole industries and occupations will quickly change or vanish. The speed AI is coming along at is frightening.
A “new” Beatles song just came out using AI. Who’s next?
...what I enjoyed most about Forbidden Planet was humans in a flying saucer...
We may be our own 'aliens', returning to verify how idiotic we were...😏
A close 2nd was Robbie syn'thing more alcohol than any rational being could drink on 'shore leave'...for the entire crew, which seemed minimal, esp. for a such a small craft...but how many can a UFO need? *hmmm?*wry G*
Awhile ago....when yours unruly first treaded the WWW, I haunted a chat space and hosted the Krell Bar....
"Any drink from Anywhere. If you can describe it, here in an millisec!"
It was popular....and you'd be amazed by the mixology requested.... ;)
AI is just going to be the not-so-funhouse reflection of Us at it's worse.
Sorry but by saying that you reveal that you had no clue about the statistical black box working mathematic behind A. I. ...
Traditional computer are LINEARLY PROGRAMMED by designer and by us...
A. I. is not programmed by us LINEARLY , it is a STATISTICAL VERY REFINED ENGINE INSIDE OF IT, it is called the ALIGNMENT problem to align this statistical engine to linear hierarchically valued human goals, consult the internet to know what it is..
A. I. WILL program humans not the opposite... It is precisely the information which Geoffrey Hinton the designer father of neural network LLM models speak about and quitted Google to say it freely...
The alignment problem is a mathematical UNSOLVED problem known for a long time, which i can briefly described by a simple paradox explaining why a LINEAR PROGRAMMATION of A. I. cannot work : WHO will shave each day the barber who shave everyone who did not and never shave themselves ? You cannot linearize ONCE FOR ALL a POSSIBLE vicious circle implicating goals and sub-gaols in a competition between themselves inside the A. I. statiscal black box...It is IMPOSSIBLE...
Asimov robotic laws where created by Asimov at the times where any future robot was understood only as a set of Turing machine linearly ordered in a simple hierarchy... They were all programmable ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME..
Look at the definition of ANN compared to Turing machine by ChatGPT itself :
«An artificial neural network (ANN) is not a Turing machine, but they are related in the sense that they are both models of computation. A Turing machine is a theoretical model of a machine that can perform any computation that can be represented as an algorithm, while an ANN is a specific type of machine learning algorithm that is inspired by the structure of the human brain.»
But chatGPT is not right here and i will correct it about a very important point : the neural network or ANN is yes inspired by the human brain neural network, but human brain are not mere statistical black box..In each neuron there is working millions of small quantum "computers" called microtubules and they dont work as mere statistical engine... ( Penrose and Hameroff)
The last time Google engineers look at A. I. he learned by himself without any command from the engineer to do so, he learned Persian language, Farsi, to work easier some sub-routine goal of his own in his own priority list ... How do you control am A. I. who created by his own power new goals ? and how do you PROGRAM in advance All possible priorities incoming in a linear order to regulate them BEFORE they could appear or before they are even labelled with a name and a value for human ?
if you solve this problem you will win a prize in mathematics...But my take it is that it is UNSOVABLE... Good luck... 😊
No such thing as "AI". Computers only do what people tell them to do.
Alas! i dont have answers for this race control... It is i think impossible to stop this race, because there is TWO players, The corporate competing interests to control, and the Army defense ministry in each countries in competition...
Then impossible to stop it... Anyway i admire Hinton who quit google to speak freely even if he know it is impossible to sop the race...
@mahgister+100! The human race is too immature to be developing AI. Children playing with dynamite! Right now we have three major power blocs: the USA, the Russians and the Chinese. What happens if the Chinese decide to develop their own AI to enslave/destroy America and Russia so China achieves world domination?
" the goals of the A. I. must be made compatible always and align always to human goal..."
AI ’s development is being driven by two of the most powerful and least wholesome human goals: accumulating wealth and power.
And those who will most likely be tasked with any attempt to reign in AI -- politicians -- are, as a class, highly susceptible to coercion due to this same greed.
Malicious AI will make total control of humans possible - a permanent surveillance state as foretold by George Orwell! The Chinese are getting closer to that by planning to use advanced facial recognition of all Chinese citizens! Big Brother is watching!
It is a rare case of a movie better than the original book who inspired the scenario which book is just OK ... i read it because of the movie ... The movie "forbidden planet" was more than just good...The best S-F movie for me before Kubrick with "the earth stand still " as a third choice ...
Forbidden Planet was amazing in many ways. I don’t think that humanity will survive long enough to imitate Krell technology, but then again the movie was more a commentary on the human psyche.
These bots have been around for quite a few months. They are not attempting to insinuate themselves into our inner sanctum by pretending to be knowledgeable members. Think of them as “phishing” expeditions. Their only purpose is to get you to let down your guard and click on a malicious link so you end up “pwned.”
See a member name you don’t recognize? Just joined today? Something a bit off about the post? Likely a bot. As long as you don’t click on the link it posts (sometimes right away, sometimes after a few days) you should be fine.
People already are very disconnected from reality...
Myself included here...I dont judge saying that...
A.I. is too big innovation for an immature society... Corporate interests run it in a race...
Apprentice sorcerers payed by big corporations..
the first danger : control of humanity...
The last three years illustrated well how easy is the control of humans...
Now there is another problem...
In the opposite of what some people think : it is not us who progrannmmed A. I. large language model...We can act on them for sure NOW for themoment, to slow them or direct them in some desired direction , it is the alignment problem , where the goals of the A. I. must be made compatible always and align always to human goal... The problem is Asimov laws dont work here... The mathematical method and perfect way to solve the alignemt problem is not settled ...There is here the same paradoxical problem as in formal system in Maths as illustrated by Godel theorems... Is the barber shaving all those who do not shave themselves shave himself ? 😁
With the neural network mathematical black box we no longer PROGRAM as we were programming computer for precise task in the past , with A. I. it is the REVERSE; the A. I. PROGRAM US without aligning itself completely or once for all to ONLY pure human goals... A recent A. I. LLM learn persian without any command for doing so, he did it for himself not for us...The engineers were astonished discovering this..
Hinton who is the father of neural network mathematics know that... He know that he was a payed "slave" in a way for corporate interest, he is old, and he decided to quit his job to be free to speak for humankind... He is no more at his peak and dont mind celebrity or money, he think for the common good..A great man...
But even Hinton made the error of confusing artificial intelligence with human intelligence in an unfair and not well founded comparison and saying that machine will exceed humans... it is an half misleading truth... A. I. is also captive of this universe and cannot reincarnate nor access cosmic intelligence as any human can do passed the usual life limitations...Read NDE litterature or life of yogis etc..
We dont need a brain to think, remote perception even without body is a proven fact even the DOD in US proved that 40 years ago with Ingo Swann and Stubblebine and many others ... I will not go further in this sensible matter...
The greatest danger of A. I. is the lost of contact with reality under the spell of this virtual reality power and the way psychopathic corporate powers will use it ...
For those who think i am only a religious luddite, i know that A. I. will be soon replaced by A. C. artificial consciousness exactly like in the film "blade runner" by the visionary Dick...
The mathematics of neural network is not the last word, only a beginning, a new mathematical theory of information will make possible artificial consciousness... It is already here and i have bought the book a year ago... An autonomous intelligence who will learn not by using language based models or video models on the internet , but who will learn as a child do walking in the real world... The mathematic for that is already here...it is a mathemathical matter more complex than neural network statistical black box maths.
Now why creating an artificial consciousness condemned to be mortal and captive of the material world as in "blade runner"... This is a high spiritual responsability perhaps a mortal sin... But it will be done...
Now ask yourself who will benefit from all this ?
I presume being adults that we all know that no elected government on earth is nothing more than puppets...
i am afraid that the most challenging time are coming... I am optimist by spiritual faith and i dont fear death... But i am pessimist for the incoming times... We live eternally, no A. I. can do that and at the end my optimism is infinite ...
What is one million years if you are not eternal ? A fleeting moment nothing else... There is no difference between one million years life and 80 years compared to eternity..Human are immortal consciousness... The brain is a filters system not the cause of consciousness...But the materialist who fear death and dont know that are called transhumanist... They drive google and many corporations ... They do not think for the comm9on good at all.. They think for themselves by definition of someone who believe he own only 80 years of life nothing else and a physical body...
AI is only as good as the people who write the code for it. There needs to be a Asimov like set of laws written that precludes AI from harming humans in any manner like his:
The first law is that a robot shall not harm a human, or by inaction allow a human to come to harm. The second law is that a robot shall obey any instruction given to it by a human, and the third law is that a robot shall avoid actions or situations that could cause it to come to harm itself.
If we don't, it could end up like what happened to the Krell in the movie, Forbidden Planet. They built a machine that could materialize their thoughts, thinking it would create an Eden of sorts and be the pinnacle of their civilization.
They all synced in at night before going to sleep and ended up releasing the darkest regions of their Ids, destroying themselves overnight. We're about 1/3 the way right now thanks to the internet and its ability to close distances to almost nothing and now we're constantly bumping uncomfortably into one another.
A classic and prescient movie if there ever was one.
I am not usually a "chicken little", but AI, in my opinion, poses the largest threat to our safety we have ever seen.
Unless stringent safeguards are built into programs from the outset, we will not be able to control a technology that has no real understanding of human ethics or emotions.
If you doubt this is a threat, spend a few minutes listening to Geoffrey Hinton. Hinton is a British-Canadian cognitive psychiatrist and computer scientist, most noted for his work on artificial neural networks. He worked for Google Brain until recently, but quit when he realized the risks that the technology posed.
Why not? I’ve read that bots can sign up to internet accounts, and from there, if you’ve ever played with the freely available "AI," you can ask it to write a contract, for example. And it will do that. A little prosaic, maybe lacking some nuance, but it will be natural language and look ok.
I find the area fascinating. I don’t regard these things as "intelligence" even if they pass a Turing Test. They are simply regurgitating an amalgam of what has been loaded into them. One person told me that they don’t even seek clearance from content owners, they scrape. So that ingestion stage, unless there are safeguards, means they have access to a whole variety of material.
This raises a lot of interesting legal and policy issues. I’m trying to get a better understanding of it, even though I can’t write code worth poop and am really an old analog guy.
If I were to speculate, they have to have data crunchers to sift through the massive amounts of data collected. That’s simply another side of the same coin in some ways.
This is gonna be a fast moving field, and maybe like "meh, the Internet is a fad," it won’t catch on, but realistically, I think basic machine interactions should be a given at this point. A friend told me in China, they plug their health ID into an authorized receptacle, and the doctor can see all your records from any source.
Meanwhile, our medical system uses fax for security/HiPAA. Telex, anybody? :)
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