As soon as GK trolls any thread, it's standard drops.
IMHO grounding the shield effects the EMF.
Can a power cord increase the resolution of an Class D (SMPS) amp by more than 5% ?
5% in relation to a stock power cord.
I can’t really trust dealer comments. I am more interested in reports from audiophiles.
Whats your story? Did you manage to increase speed and resolution of your amp ? (without losses in the bass area)
I can’t really trust dealer comments. I am more interested in reports from audiophiles.
Whats your story? Did you manage to increase speed and resolution of your amp ? (without losses in the bass area)
130 responses Add your response
What does a power cord do? Delivers power. Rather than invest a bunch of money on an over priced power cord. Your money would be better spent on a line power conditioner from APC or tripplite. Class D has an RF power supply like used on computers. A.C. Line noise would affect it just like a computer. The music would be affected by error correction from RF. Class D processes music as 1' s and 0's. I am betting these upgrade cords have RF filtering. The manufacturer would not send an AC cord too small. |
I became a power cord believer about 15 years ago- Synergistic Research Master Couplers impacted everything I put them on from amp, DAC, pre, even the darn digital reclocker unit. I have had fun "rolling" pc cables since (I could argue they may make THE most significant impact of all my cables)- more recently quite surprised by the sonic impact of not just a linear power supply feeding my Amber Regan (significant), but more importantly, upgrading the power cord connected to the linear power supply- now that one was a shocker-huge impact across the board when I did that. Crazy- a little Teradak DC-30 and with an old PS Audio cable on it it increased resolution by the elussive 5% and possibly more. But what about with Class D? I currently have a modest, but mystifyingly impressive Bel Canto 300 integrated (usb from dorked-out Mac Mini and external drive), and I have thrown a half dozen different after market pc cords at it and not a single one impacted the presentation that I could tell- and I really wanted it to...I may need to spend bigger bucks, thus I'm waiting for a great deal on a pricier mid-level pc and will try again. I too have been wondering if there is something inherent to Class D that would somehow nullify upgrading the pc...I will be following this subject with great interest and look forward to reading additional information from our knowledgable community. Cheers! |
geoffkait states: You’re right about one thing, the AC current does travel in both directions. But only one of those directions is audible. See if you can guess which one. A prize for the right answer. So what about one of our favorite amp specs, damping factor which is because Speaker diaphragms have mass, and their surroundings have stiffness. Together, these form a resonant system, and the mechanical cone resonance may be excited by electrical signals (e.g., pulses) at audio frequencies. But a driver with a voice coil is also a current generator, since it has a coil attached to the cone and suspension, and that coil is immersed in a magnetic field. For every motion the coil makes, it will generate a current that will be seen by any electrically attached equipment, such as an amplifier. The amp has to absorb current generated by the the speakers to be able to control them. The direction arrows on your wires seem to point wrong 50% the time for this fundamental part the the circuit that the speakers are a part of. |
Directionality in a power cord,that's fake news folks. Agree and furthermore anyone who claims otherwise is probably an AudioQuest employee using a sockpuppet alias. Sorry, kids - wire of a certain type and purity isn't any more or less directional in any measurable way as it pertains to how it's extruded - much less how it "sounds". |
ostensible_constituency geoffkait: “Oh, brother, one of the A Boys checks in with his usual failure to grasp the whole directionality thing. Doesn’t any one of the electronics EE pretend gurus even understand what directionality is? Once again, we have an amp manufacturer who never got the memo regarding advanced fuses, fuse directionality or wire directionality, including HDMI, Digital Cable and power cords. I have one word: hyper circuit focused!” Man that’s some thick sarcasm if I’m interpreting it correctly, but if indeed you are being sarcastic, Bravo to you! Anyone claiming directionality in a conductor made of 99% pure copper or silver is selling snake oil. Absolute nonsense. And to answer your (poorly worded) quiz - MOST signals on audio cables are AC - hence destroying the stupid "directionality" argument. LOL. >>>>>I realize you’re new here so I’ll cut you some slack. My sarcasm was meant for anyone who doesn’t believe wire is directional. You’d have to be living in a cave not to realize it by now. Hence my sarcasm. |
Oh, brother, one of the A Boys checks in with his usual failure to grasp the whole directionality thing. Doesn’t any one of the electronics EE pretend gurus even understand what directionality is? Man that’s some thick sarcasm if I’m interpreting it correctly, but if indeed you are being sarcastic, Bravo to you! Anyone claiming directionality in a conductor made of 99% pure copper or silver is selling snake oil. Absolute nonsense. And to answer your (poorly worded) quiz - MOST signals on audio cables are AC - hence destroying the stupid "directionality" argument. LOL. |
I have a Primare I32. It came with a 5' cord that looks like 16 AWG at most. It is a bit loose at the amp side and pulled almost taught when I have the amp where I want it. I bought a 6' 14 AWG copper cord to resolve these issues. I didn't hear a noticeable difference; but as regards the noise floor, it is inaudible with either cord. The sound system is on a dedicated 15 A circuit wired with 12 AWG. |
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Al, “But a signal having both DC and AC components is nevertheless "operating in an AC circuit," it seems to me. So the only audio-related cables I can think of which are "not operating in an AC circuit" are cables conducting the outputs of DC power supplies that are external to the component being powered.” This is how I have always understood this too but I may be wrong or missing something also. As always Thank’s for your well explained statements, Kenny. |
Any frequency other than zero Hz is AC, in that the direction of the current alternates at some rate. Digital signals and analog audio signals both contain a mix of many non-zero frequency components that are simultaneously present. Certain digital signals may have a significant DC component in addition to their AC frequency components, an example being USB signals which have one of their two voltage states at or near zero, and the other at some positive voltage. But a signal having both DC and AC components is nevertheless "operating in an AC circuit," it seems to me. So the only audio-related cables I can think of which are "not operating in an AC circuit" are cables conducting the outputs of DC power supplies that are external to the component being powered. Regards, -- Al |
I am wondering where Elizabeth is getting her numbers from 2% not 5% for a power cord. % of what. You might be able to say that in your opinion an upgrade in speakers sounded 2x better than what you had. Even Audioquest cannot give you a persentage of improvement from one cable to the next. They just say the more expensive the better the sound. Does a Audioquest Redwood give you a 27% better sound quality than an Aspen? Most people in a blind test cannot tell a $300 power cable from an $1,800 cable. Yet people described the difference like one French wine from a CA I would like Liz to respond and here her comments |
Say, itsn’t Ralph the guy who’s got some weird theory that fuse holders cause fuse directionality, not the fuse itself? Come on people! Give me a break! When are you going to wake up and smell the coffee? ☕️ I see nobody has answered my pop quiz, which audio cables are not (rpt not) operating in an AC circuit. Not even the illustrious Ralph. |
For sure maybe more then 5%. I bought the latest ,power cords from Verastarr Audio with a 30 day return policy and both digital as well as my New Gato 400s integrated prospered well over5 % improvement, digital even more so. FYI. Verastarr has a New line not on the website yet less expensive locally Mike the owner direct. if you don’t need the very time consuming weaved jacket and a couple other extras. Excellent performance per $$ spent vs the competition, this includes system cables also. |
I hesitate to answer the question white because the answer would probably cause angst and consternation white among the usual suspects. I don’t have to white mention any names. Also because this subject enters some areas way beyond scope white. I’m not saying this to be coy white but because I don’t wish to turn this thread into yet white another mud fight. 💩 |
I've heard the tiny improvements or worsening of the sound for that matter, in regards to power cords. While I never experimented with the mega buck priced cords, do they offer any real world improvements over more modestly priced cords? It seems to me there is just so much one can do with the AC coming from one's outlets. I suppose I'm just stating the obvious. I'm not an engineer of any variety. lol. |
Oh, brother, one of the A Boys checks in with his usual failure to grasp the whole directionality thing. Doesn’t any one of the electronics EE pretend gurus even understand what directionality is? Once again, we have an amp manufacturer who never got the memo regarding advanced fuses, fuse directionality or wire directionality, including HDMI, Digital Cable and power cords. I have one word: hyper circuit focused! I didn’t get too many responses to my pop quiz: how many cables and cords are operating in an AC circuit? Why am I not surprised? |
Audioquest or no, its quite impossible for a wire in an AC power cord to express any directionality. To do so would be taking on characteristics of a diode as George (+1), kosst (+1) and Al (+1) have all pointed out. What *is* possible is that the shield of the cable might be hooked up at one end or the other (as opposed to the ground connection, which is the green wire) which *might* make a difference somehow, and certainly the finished power cord has connectors at either end that tend to make it directional :) Put another way, its quite possible to hear differences in power cords and to also confirm the differences through simple measurement. OTOH, its quite impossible to hear differences in the direction of AC wiring, and this is easily confirmed by the fact that measurement of such yields a null. When someone suggests to you that a wire in a power cord has a directional quality, the best plan of action is to turn in the other direction and run as hard as you can. Since Geoff has discovered this thread, it will no longer suit to continue posting to it or reading it as per usual; snake oil has a highly ephemeral quality and much of it will be applied soon, yielding a similar result as with a directional AC wire. |
Moops checks in with yet another silly comment, guess he’s bored and figures, what the heck, at least he can boost his already astronomical post count. Obviously the whole fabrication process must be controlled to ensure directionality is correct. Not only for speaker cables and interconnects but also power cords and Ethernet cables and HDMI cables. Hiding your head in the sand doesn’t make the problem go away, Moops. Let us know when you guys figure out what the term directionality even means. Pop quiz Of all the various audio cables and cords which ones are not AC? |
Al, what I’m afraid you don’t understand, is that both wires are directional. Both wires should be controlled for directionality. Which is obviously what Audioquest does. Nice try anyway. Then you will hear the effect of directionality, because the audible direction for both wires will be toward you the listener. We don’t care what the wire sounds like in the opposite direction. I don’t think I can say it any plainer. |
Kenny, no, Geoff's statement that only one direction of the AC current is audible is completely incorrect. As I said in one of the recent fuse threads: ... when AC current is moving toward the component in the "hot" conductor it is moving away from the component in the "neutral" conductor. And vice versa. So it is moving both toward and away from the component at all times. And a mains fuse is in series with the current in the neutral conductor as well as being in series with the current in the hot conductor, via the primary winding of the power transformer.So if in fact Audioquest's control of the direction of the wires in their power cords provides any benefit, it is not for the reason Geoff stated. Best regards, -- Al |
🐑 georgehifi geoffkait - “Well, in the case of the new Hurricane power cord from Audioquest you can attribute part of its very high performance to wire directionality.” Once again, a wire that acts like a diode, "snake oil". Brilliant it's trying to rectify the mains, which is AC (alternating current) and changes 60 x a second, more "snake oil" >>>>Oh, geez, you’re just regurgitating 🤮 what costco_emoji keeps claiming - that a wire acts like a diode. Hey, get real guys! Have you run out of ammo? No one says wire acts like a diode. After all this posturing as some sort of electronics EE guru and you still don’t even know what wire directionality means. Unbelievable! You’re right about one thing, the AC current does travel in both directions. But only one of those directions is audible. See if you can guess which one. A prize for the right answer. Extra credit: Why would Audioquest control directionality for power cords if it didn’t affect performance? Do you think naive gullible newbies are scarfing up the new Hurricane power cords because they think that directionality is cool? |
Well, in the case of the new Hurricane power cord from Audioquest you can attribute part of its very high performance to wire diectionality Once again, a wire that acts like a diode, "snake oil". Brilliant it's trying to rectify the mains, which is AC (alternating current) and changes 60 x a second, more "snake oil" Cheers George |
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I have the Bel Canto ref1000m Class D amps. These will flip my circuit breaker if I turn them both on at the same time. Otherwise I never have a problem. The power supply seems to draw a lot of current when turned on, then not so much. I would expect less difference with power cords then with many amplifiers due to the relative efficiency. So I have not bothered to upgrade though its on my list of things to try someday. I use upgraded power cords with my pre-amp and DAC (Pangea) and hear clear differences there. |
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“Well, in the case of the new Hurricane power cord from Audioquest you can attribute part of its very high performance to wire directionality, which Audioquest now controls during manufacturing for power cords as well as speaker cables, interconnects and HDMI cables. Hel-loo! Wake up and smell the roses! 🌹🌹🌹” What do you mean? Surely it is the bottle of magic pixie dust ($1200 per bottle) that they sprinkle on ordinary wires to make them smell sweet as roses. Hel-loo! |