Can a Classe SSP replace a dedicated stereo pre?

Coming to this a little late…. I have had a Sigma SSP and Sigma Amp5 since shortly after the model was released and have been generally very happy.  I thought my experiences might be helpful to those considering Classe.

Prior to buyout that resulted in Classe more or less being temporarily destroyed, I had a problem and the customer service was exemplary.  With a copy of the original receipt (I was second owner) Classe honored the warranty without hesitation and actually replaced my unit because the problem was on a chip on the motherboard and could not be isolated.

For 1-2 years while Dave Nauber was trying to rescue the company, service was questionable at best but they are now back in business.  Unfortunately, Classe has discontinued the “entry level” Sigma series and I don’t believe there is any intention of resurrecting it.  Particularly sad because the Sigma SSP offered a fantastic balance of features/sound quality/and cost.

As we speak, my SSP is back at the service center in NY (no longer in Montreal) and I have no expectation of it not getting repaired and though it is clear that they are less staffed than in the past, in this era… what company isn’t?  BTW, without detailed story, the unit was damaged in a move/renovation so not the fault of Classe.

The two channel, balanced system is very good sound, especially if you consider the money:  DAC, Balanced Preamp, decent optional Phono stage (not currently available) and significantly better than mass-market HT.  I would not recommend the Sigma Amp 5 for anything but HT channels and even with that, I would recommend different amplification.  Over the course of my ownership, I have enjoyed:  Audible Illusions amp, BAT and now Classe CA2300 and CA5100 amplifiers.  These absolutely obliterate the Amp 5 and illustrate to me that A/B amplification still sounds better than class D “Digital” amplification.  I have had this confirmed with auditioning other class D’s as well and though some are better than others I think on average class A and class A/B amps are much better and don’t really use that much more electricity…

The new Classe Delta series sounds fantastic and warrants auditioning for those that can afford it.  It is definitely aimed at the upper end of high end audio with Preamp and stereo amp clocking in around $30,000.  I understand Classe is planning on releasing a “Delta” surround processor, upgraded from the old 800 which I agree is a slightly better performer than the SSP except no phono stage option and no USB audio input and at least 3 generations past CODECs for HT.  I have often thought about upgrading to 800 however the lack of USB and phono are significant issues for the way I use my system so I am living with a slightly lower sound quality until I can afford new Delta.

In summary, for someone who is new to high-end audio that wants a good to very good balanced 2 channel system and a more than adequate single ended HT option all in one box, I would not discourage from the Sigma SSP for a control center, especially when they can be purchased for around $2K or under.  Even today, it offers a good trade off of features vs. value and quality.  But, definitely upgrade the amp(s).  Even for 5 surrounds, I would recommend an older 5100 to the Amp 5 which is often selling for only a little more.  Finally, the SSP really benefits from excellent power cables, interconnects and isolation.  I use Nordost products and I would say they elevate the performance more than an order of magnitude.  In fact I would willingly but the SSP with isolation and power upgrades against a $10K separate pre amp DAC combination without the isolation and upgrades and I think it would more than hold it’s own and you still wouldn’t have HT on the competitors system…

Cautions are:  the original SSP design is now over 5 years old, they have been temperamental in the reliability (not terrible… but certainly not fantastic) and upgrade paths are currently unavailable.  The rest of my system has been significantly improved since I bought the SSP and honestly, I am looking forward to the new Delta or going with separate pre-amp DAC with pass through and an HT control center for HT only.  This will be at a cost of over 10x more, so for this improvement, it will be a lot of additional money.  

My current system includes:  Innuos Zen mini server (with Keces external power supply), Synology NAS, Linn Sondek LP12/Ittok IV arm/Benz silver cartridge, Sigma SSP, Classe CA 2300 and CA 5100 amps, ProAc Response 5 mains, ProAC CC2 center, ProAc ER1 subwoofer, B/W switchable bipolar surround (sides and rears for 7.1), Nordost Valhalla PC’s, IC’s and SC’s (Frey2, Brahma and Vishnu PC’s for minor components), Tyr 2 USB cable, Heimdall 2 Ethernet cables, QBase 8, QBase 4, QV2 and QV1, Audience Hidden Treasure outlets, Furutech wall plates and carbon fiber cover with dedicated isolated grounds to independent ground stake.

I hope this was helpful to anyone considering Classe.

Thank you so much for all of your help! I've now been running a Classe Sigma SSP for about two weeks, and I absolutely love it for both two channel and surround. I A/Bed against my Modwright SWL 9.0SE for pure 2-channel and honestly, sounds just as good in bypass mode. 

I do prefer my Sabaj D5 DAC to the in-built DAC, but it's a small upgrade. I use that for stereo music from digital sources.

Movie soundtracks absolutely come to life with this (which is really important for me), and dialog clarity is pretty phenomenal too. I think it's a very relevant option for people even today who want to combine 2 and 5 channels using just single digital sources, and not having to deal with ht bypass.

I run 4k content only, and I'm able to get around the older HDMI issues by just using a HDMI matrix, so I didn't need the MK2.

Hope this helps someone else on the fence!

It very well could it is all in how the pre interface with the rest of your gear and in fact it may sound better because of how it fits in your system.

I have an SSP-800 for the HT in one room and dedicated two channel in another. They sound much different - but both of them sound good.

But not just any AVP, I’m trying to ask about a Classe product that was designed with 2 channel in priority and not surround?

Yeah, but you’re still replacing a well-regarded tube pre with the preamp section of a solid state AVP.  All I’ll say is be prepared for a different type of sound.  Better or worse? That’s purely dependent on your tastes, but I’d say the Classe is facing an uphill battle.  The good news is that if you find you prefer the ModWright you can just keep it and use its HT bypass to incorporate the Classe and have the best of both worlds, albeit with just a tad bit less simplicity.

in SoCal called a Casita, essential for many. ;-) enjoy your tunes

@akhil,

Sounds like a good deal.  My brother in law who lives outside of LA,  sold a house he bought in the 80's for just over a million.  He bought it for less than 200K.

Thank you bwguy and jakesnak! Waiting impatiently to setup and try the new system!

@stereo5  haha yes, it's a rare find. I live in the bay area, CA, where rents are ridiculous, and I'm still quite young. This is a small house/cottage unit in someone's backyard with a living room, kitchen, bath, bedroom and private yard. Maybe 600 sqft built? But it's perfect for me since I wanted cathedral ceilings, privacy and no shared walls so I can listen to music in peace, and costs only as much as a nice apartment.

Agree with jakesnack.  You will be happy with the 2 channel performance of the Classe Sigma SSP.  Although there might other options for home theatre processing, I am more than happy 
with the 5.1 surround sound quality as well.  

@akhil,

Not audio related but you said you live in a small 1 room house.  How is that possible?  Do you men an apartment like a studio apartment or a truly 1 room house?  Is it one of those micro, 1 room home?   I am very curious, care to enlighten me?

The Sigma SSP in 2 channel is almost identical as the 800. For what you explained and how you intend to use it, you will be very pleased with the SSP. It can be a very good analog preamp. Proper cabling, circuits, can only  propel it further.

Can an AVP replace a Modwright SWL 9.0se?No. Just no.

But not just any AVP, I’m trying to ask about a Classe product that was designed with 2 channel in priority and not surround? People say it sounds nearly the same as the CP-800 stereo pre, which I have no experience with, hence no basis to compare with my SWL.

Have you heard the CP-800 or SSP sigma by any chance?


@jumia, you might want to get a preamp or integrated amp with ht bypass if you want to use both. 2 channel sources feed into the stereo preamp while surround sources feed into the AVR/AVP. Then the pre-outs from the AVR go into the stereo preamp's bypass input so you reuse the speakers for ht.

I could use that as an option, but I'm trying to see if I can simplify down to one amp without losing quality.

maybe ab switch is better as switching between stereo and ht is easier. But ab switches dont get much attention? Why not?

Because most audiophiles are loathe to insert more — and especially cheaper/inferior — electronics in the signal path than necessary as they can degrade/change sound. 

What about an ab switch?

i have a nad17 processor and a lumin x1 and still a stereo pre is alot better. I am looking too.

maybe ab switch is better as switching between stereo and ht is easier. But ab switches dont get much attention? Why not?

Can an AVP replace a Modwright SWL 9.0se?  No.  Just no.  

I’m running a Marantz 8805 with a Mc 8207 amp for music and movies. Music is quite good although I am curious if dedicated 2channel with a ht bypass would be a significant improvement. 

My only pause with Classe is their less than excellent service. They've transitioned ownership a couple of times recently. I had a CP700 pre that sounded fantastic. It needed warranty work. No power surge was noted. The unit needed a main circuit board and the touch screen replaced. I was the second owner. Classe demanded the original sales receipt before honoring the warranty. Through much pissing and moaning, I got Classe to honor the warranty. I wouldn't complain about this not being the original owner BUT, their are companies who will treat you like gold no matter what. Pass labs for one. They rebuilt an ageing X-1 preamp for me. I braced myself for the bill. $125.00!!! Pass's explanation; We don't believe in making money on repairs. We charge as little as possible to get the job done. I fully expected to shell out $1500.00 or so. (They replaced two boards and the display and fabricated a new box) I've said this here before. I need to say it again as such a company deserves to be heard time and again. Joe 

Bwguy! You are correct, it is a Wolfson! Too much audio pollution in my brain. I also agree with you in regards to it being a great analog preamp. Its hard to beat in digital bypass. Look at the THD numbers in digital bypass. Extremely low.  Akhi I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Sigma SSP's on the used market are a steal! Enjoy....

Thank you dmcneilr and vinylshadow! Your inputs help a lot. 

I have purchased a Sigma mk1 for now, if Classe is still offering upgrades I can try to get that done myself. 

Super excited, I am moving to a new rental and will try both my existing preamp and the Classe there!  

YES.
I have a Classe SSP-800 and it is fantastic in 2 channel.
Read Robert Harley's 2008 review of the Classe SSP-800 and this review:hometheaterreview dot com/classe-ssp-800-av-preamp-reviewed/

However, my peripheral equipment is top of the charts so that is a contributing factor. But Classe makes fantastic processors.

I'd get an SSP-800 if you can. They are being sold for around $3000 or so on EBay. Best deal on the planet.

I have a Classe Sigma SSP MKII as well. I had the same home theater + 2-ch hifi conundrum. I’m very satisfied with it. Is it my Aavik U-380 for 2-ch, no. It is however the best blend of both elements that I’ve found.  I would look for an SSP MKII or an earlier version that has been upgraded. I’ve had both and the MKII does home theater much more convincingly. Best of luck in your search…

@jakesnap.   Actually the Classe uses a Wolfson 8741 chip.

Thanks bwguy, I think I have the same plan and it's good to hear the Sigma is doing well for you.

ghdprentice, I live alone in a small 1 room house, and cannot justify keeping 2 separate systems :) Your theater setup looks great! I am trying to do exactly that, get the best sounding processor I can afford (Hence the Classe), that has analog passthrough.

I have a great stereo system and great separate home theater system, also a large screen TV with high end sound bar in the bedroom. Obviously a separate system is preferred (a TV in the middle is usually acoustically bad)... I would personally add a really inexpensive surround system to the TV and keep separate if possible. For HT I am so distracted by the video, and the 3D sound effect so much an improvement over none that SQ is not nearly as important in that setting. However, you may have to for various reasons.

It has been a long time since I assembled my HT. It is composed of top of the line Meridian surround processor, 5 matching B&W 805s, 2 B&W 800 subwoofers, and a massive Rotel amp. It sounds great. If you are going to combine them, make sure the processor is as high end as possible and has a bipass. You don’t want your sign going through any digital processing. Good luck to you.

I have the Classe Sigma SSP Mkii and am really happy with it. I am primarily 2 channel but have a 5.1 system for music concerts and movies. I don’t want anything more than 5.1, but it can handle 7.1. The DAC is excellent, but I have recently been using Lumin T2 streamer and connecting it via XLR and setting the Classe in digital bypass mode. The Sigma acts as a great analog preamp.

The Dac in the SSP is very good? Hard to say which will perform better. Only way to tell is in XLR BYPASS, run your D5. Then take it out of bypass and listen to the SSP. It has a very good Burr Brown Chip.

Thanks for the replies!

I have a Krell Showcase HT processor. My Luxman Cl38U SE two channel tube preamp sonically completely beats the Krell for music.

I believe the Sigma was deemed better than the Krell for 2 channel performance, so I’m hopeful. Though I think your Luxman is obviously a superior preamp, I don’t think my budget is near that level of performance.

I have a Classe’ Sigma SSP preamp. For a surround sound processor it is outdated. Not good. In 2 channel, setting’s in XLR Digital Bypass it will hold its own against preamps much more expensive.

I only care about SQ, not really much about getting the latest. I can’t get more than 5 speakers, don’t care about Atmos, and have only one 4k HDR source that feeds into the TV first. I plan to split HDMI and feed audio into the SSP, so I don’t need the latest codecs etc.

I have a sabaj d5 DAC, not sure if it’ll outperform the DAC in the Sigma?

I have a Classe' Sigma SSP preamp. For a surround sound processor it is outdated. Not good. In 2 channel, setting's in XLR Digital Bypass it will hold its own against preamps much more expensive.

I have a Krell Showcase HT processor. My Luxman Cl38U SE two channel tube preamp sonically completely beats the Krell for music.