Calling all Vandersteen Fans

I would say that each speaker 3 feet in from the side wall were too close together and too far out from the front wall for proper power response.Like I said have the truck re-route and I'll pay half if we don't succeed. simple, compliance and call me asap
                      Best JohnnyR

Thanks Johnny,

a very generous offer but the speakers are already back to the dealer and I doubt they'd let me try them again anyhow. >3' from the side walls still had the speakers over 8' apart. The distance from the forward wall resulted in good bass, that wasn't so much the problem. It was the midrange that was too recessed for my tastes. I didn't have any such issues with the 1Cis which makes me think maybe the 2Ces are just not to my taste. I'm not heartbroken over it and content with my current setup for now. 

Yes, I should mention that JohnnyR went to great lengths to help me get my Vandies dialed in. At the end of the day, they just weren’t for me. But I greatly appreciated his help.

JohnnyR at Audio Connection will provide clarity about anything Vandersteen. He hooked me up with AQ GO-4 with my 1Ci's... a great match - sounds really nice and spades fit perfect.

I would say that each speaker 3 feet in from the side wall were too close together and too far out from the front wall for proper power response.Like I said have the truck re-route and I'll pay half if we don't succeed.  simple, compliance and call me asap
                      Best JohnnyR

Sorry to hear as you want everyone to be happy with their systems.  Wish Johnny had a shot at seeing what was up.  I know the magic he's done in my room with both teh Treo's and then Quatro's.....good luck going forward.

Vandersteen 2CE Sigs are just not for everybody. End of story.....Just like what I own......just not for everybody......

Why sweat it just fix it
The only mistake you are making now is to not having the truck turnaround. Re-route is easy
Likely not broken in yet. Bases filled? Ask Questions?
How far out into the room? Bi-wired w solid core
Tilt back? Wider spacing
I’ll bet we can make em work amazingly well. Best JohnnyR

Bases were filled with a mixture of lead shot and kitty litter. They were placed approximately 45" into the room (at acoustic center) based on the manual’s recommendations, but I tried a few inches fore and aft of that as well. I also tried many rake configurations in addition to the graph’s recommendation of 1/2." They were equidistant to the forward wall within 1mm of each other. Distance to the side walls was over 3’ for each speaker, though not equal distances as was advised by the manual. They were bi-wired with AQ Type 4 cable.

I could possibly have the truck turn around, but based on what I’ve already tried, I’m not confident enough that I could achieve what I’m seeking to risk another $280 hit in shipping charges if I can’t make em work. What really makes me question their compatibility is that I couldn’t get the midrange to come forward regardless of what I tried. Even when I boosted the mids by a couple decibels, the midrange remained very recessed in the mix. The midrange of my 2-way Advents was so much more clear and delineable that I was shaking my head in confoundment. It’s ok though, this whole venture has at least quenched my curiosity. If anything, it’s helped me realize how content I should be with my old setup. At least I know the 1Cis work well in my system so maybe I’ll pick up a pair of those again someday.

Why sweat it just fix it
The only mistake you are making now is to not having the truck turnaround. Re-route is easy
Likely not broken in yet. Bases filled? Ask Questions?
How far out into the room? Bi-wired w solid core
Tilt back? Wider spacing
I’ll bet we can make em work amazingly well. Best JohnnyR

Helomech-
Sorry to hear about your experience with these speakers. I know you have had bad luck now...twice! But hey that’s ok, just keep looking. Perhaps the Sterlings will work out to be the perfect match, they look to be very fine speakers. I often think, speaker choice is a very subjective journey. The key is to find what you like, not what others like. Good luck, happy listening.

 Thanks @2psyop 

Yes, extremely subjective - something I realize more and more the longer I'm an audiophile.

Johnny at Audio Connection graciously offered to guide the setup of the 2CEs but unfortunately, I didn't see his message until they were already on the freight truck.

And as for luck, yeah, when it rains, it pours. Because I wanted to keep my business with that dealer, in exchange for the Vandys, I agreed to buy some "open-box" Stirling SB-88s. I've heard these speakers in the past so I knew they were a safe bet, sonically. But apparently it's just not my season for speaker purchases. I unboxed them only to find they have many nicks and scratches in the veneer, a dent in one corner and a dust cap that's disbonding from one of the drivers. I really wish they had disclosed the condition prior to the sale. They should've been listed as "scratch and dent," as are some items in their inventory. I would've rather paid almost full retail for a brand-new condition pair.   

Maybe this is just the universe telling me to be content with what I have. 

Vandersteens are fussy about tilt.  Not good for those with OCD. 

I use a Huepar Box 1-R laser level for this. 

But if you made some effort to follow the instructions, and it didn't work for you, I would move on.

Helomech-
Sorry to hear about your experience with these speakers. I know you have had bad luck now...twice! But hey that’s ok, just keep looking. Perhaps the Sterlings will work out to be the perfect match, they look to be very fine speakers. I often think, speaker choice is a very subjective journey. The key is to find what you like, not what others like. Good luck, happy listening.

Sad to hear this.
I do know that speakers take a while to 'break in', but sometimes things don't work out.
I hope the Stirling's do the trick.
Bob

Well guys, unfortunately, the 2CE Sigs aren’t working for me. I’m really quite baffled (no pun intended), because they sound nothing like what I recall of the 1Cis. I played them quite a lot over the last week and regardless of placement tweaks, I just couldn’t duplicate the decay of the 1Cis. The midrange is also quite lacking in detail compared to nearly all my other speakers. On the plus side, I didn’t notice any sibilance in the high freqs as I did with the 1Cis. The bass extension is also very nice, though sometimes it sounds like it’s overwhelming the cabinet with resonance.

I realize speakers can take a long while to break-in, but these would have to undergo quite the transformation for me to keep them.

After boxing up the Vandys last night, just for kicks, I inserted my 43-year-old Advents into the system - same cables and all. I’ll be a monkey’s uncle - the Advents were producing more detail, greater midrange presence, better imaging and just overall greater musicality. I know that’s hard to believe but that’s what I was hearing. I’m sure at least 5 out of 10 would hear the opposite. Anyhow, my dealer was agreeable in making an exchange for a demo pair of Stirling SB-88s - a speaker I know I’ll enjoy.

I still appreciate everyone’s responses and advice here.

Happy Listening.

great stuff and thanks for sharing.

I finally received the speakers, unfortunately, the 26' of bulk cable I ordered with them had been cut into 5 random lengths (wtf?). So I'm using stranded cable in the mean time. I was surprised to discover my Audioquest Suregrip 300 spades were able to fit the barrier terminals.

I had my previous speakers hooked up to my Rogue CM-II prior to receiving the Vandys but decided to switch to my SS amp for initial break-in. They're certainly good overall but I need to play with positioning. I had positioned them according to the manual but not getting the decay I remember with the 1Cis - I suppose that would be a matter of tilt setting. 

The bass is definitely improving with each listen. I plan to hook them up to my CM-II this weekend to see if that amp was responsible for the better imaging and soundstaging I was getting with my other speakers (Spendor SP2/3R2).

the Anticables copper spades are very soft and yield a nice gas tight connection without excessive torque.

helomech have they arrived yet ???

Not yet. I was hoping I'd have them before my vacation, but had to postpone the ship date because they're coming by freight. They should arrive in a few days. 

I ordered both Vampire and Furutech spades, and will probably use whichever is a better fit for the barrier strips.

 I would have gone with AntiCables, but being as I occasionally re-route my cables for use with different amps, I'm afraid the insulation coating wouldn't hold up long. My gear is housed by a rather heavy entertainment credenza that necessitates the speaker cables being snaked behind it whenever I have the urge to switch amps.

the Anticables copper spades are very soft and yield a nice gas tight connection without excessive torque.

helomech have they arrived yet ???

Soft copper spades might likely sound better than gold-plated...

Bi-wire, bi-wire, bi-wire. Not doing that will degrade SQ.

I managed to source some of the gold-plated-copper Vampire spades.

If you are getting the cables from AQ or a dealer,  they should be able to offer spades that fit the Vandy's.
The GO-4 that I got from Johnny fit like a glove.
Bob

Used DBW AQ Rocket 88 ,used DBW AQ Rocket 44 ,used DBW AQ CV4
Gibraltar. Castle rock, etc

https://www.grainger.com/product/4WYY9?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIibDs-pG-4gIV1AOGCh1HtgGJEAQYASABEgLJZ_D_BwE...!

I caution you to NOT solder those cables.  It is not the best connection.  Are you getting them terminated by the dealer or from the company? I don't know if AQ sells them terminated.  Just my opinion. Others may say differently.

I typically use good ol' Kester 60/40 - I find it stronger than the silver stuff. I plan to use a crimp connection in addition to solder because the wires might be too small a gauge unless I want to double/ triple fold the ends. 

Do you know of a solid core cable  that has larger gauge wires? 

great choice ! enjoy them in good health. 
my memory is the factory cold welds the crimp and they sell silver solder IF you must solder, takes quite the iron to muck with that stuff...

YOu'll probably love them the way most do.  They are such a great value still.

I caution you to NOT solder those cables.  It is not the best connection.  Are you getting them terminated by the dealer or from the company? I don't know if AQ sells them terminated.  Just my opinion. Others may say differently.

Congrats on the purchase. Hope that you have a lot of enjoyment out of them. 

@helomech,
I think you made a good choice. I was just posting my experience with adding subs to Vandy's at full range.
I wanted to use my 2w subs with the VLR's, but space dictated otherwise.
The Hsu subs are good enough for my office, but I wouldn't trade my 2wq's and Treo's in my LR.
Bob

^ I considered the new VLRs with the carbon tweeter, but decided I want to give another shot at living with a 3-way speaker. I typically prefer 2 and 2.5-way speakers, but I suspect the time and phase alignment of the 2CEs will eliminate the lack of coherence I encounter in most 3-ways.

I am running a pair of VLR's with HSU subs at full range.
I have to admit that I have to dial down the crossover point below 80 hz in order to get a good seamless transition.
Though Vandy's may not go to 20 hz, they go pretty far down- and let's face it, there isn't much happening down there anyway (unless you listen to organ music).
Bob

Good choice! I've heard the most recent versions of the 2CE Sig II's, and they are definitely the best yet. Adding a Vandy sub (if you're so inclined) makes for a unbeatable combination.

Thanks. I already have two Golden Ear subs that allow high-pass crossover. I'll try running them full-range first. 

helomech,

Good choice! I've heard the most recent versions of the 2CE Sig II's, and they are definitely the best yet. Adding a Vandy sub (if you're so inclined) makes for a unbeatable combination.

To the OP- I think you made a wise decision getting the 2CE Sig II’s. I bought a pair of these some 6 years ago and had listened for about 30-60 days to as many speakers I could find in that price range. I bought Analysis Plus Brown bi-wire cables and paid strict attention to proper setup. Also I had learned that although the speakers are forgiving in whatever quality level of electronics you feed them, they DO reward you with better sound if you step up source, preamp and amp quality. For affordable speakers they can be quite impressive. To add bottom end, one can add a good sub or two, although I have not done that. Enjoy... you really picked a great speaker and Richard is a great designer/engineer. The Quatro would be my next change in speakers but I need to hit the Mega-millions lottery first. Haha

Update: I ended up purchasing a brand new pair of 2CE Sig IIs. The dealer received them just this week, so they should be the latest and greatest iteration. Luckily, I was able to negotiate a price based on the $2700 MSRP (Vandy now lists them at $2999, and at least one dealer is asking even more (?)). 
Now I'm impatiently awaiting their arrival. 

I almost went for 3A Sigs, however, I'll likely be moving in the near future and my system could end up in a smaller space, so had to take that into consideration. 

Also bought some AQ Type-4 cable per  the recommendations here. I plan to terminate it with the standard 1/4" AQ spades for now. I just question how well they'll crimp onto those rather small-gauge wires. I suppose I'll have to reinforce the crimp with some solder. 

05-17-2019 11:26am

I use an Ayre AX5/20 with built in cross over. 

Off topic: I thought you moved on from the Ayre? I love my AX-5 Twenty, probably the best piece I will ever own. I decided I couldn't wait to save for Treo CTs and bought used Thiel CS2.4SEs. I have since replaced everything from the binding posts to XOs to driver hookup wire (under the tutelage of Tom Thiel, Jim's brother). I am *super* happy.
Somewhat on topic: After break-in on my 2CeSig IIs, the midrange remained somewhat veiled. I was using a single run of Cardas Neutral Reference with an el cheapo jumper. I found a killer deal on two pairs of used Cardas Golden Reference and biwiring really opened up the sound. Still running the GRs on my Thiels which are now configured for biwiring. Replacing the OEM hookup wiring in the Thiels to Cardas nicely snapped the sonic picture into focus. I strongly recommend Cardas but AQ is also a good choice.

No, I have decided to keep it for now.  I really want the Vandy amps, but can't afford them right now. Would then need to also get a new pre, lol.  

@tomic601 

Figured out the virtual systems thing. Posted some photos of my room. 

@tomic601 .
That's a nice offer. But, beware. I loaned a CD demagnetizer to another Agoner and never got it back.😠-no matter, I haven't opened a CD in years after finding streaming music-(though demagnetizing CD's did make a difference).
Bob

i have my Thiel 2.3 running currently w Canare Quad, evaluating it vs a loom of Type 4
I have been enjoying some Kimber in my CT system, it is an internal biwire, was supposed to be temporary as I got lengths needed sorted in new room, but finding it a good system match w overall system, my next move there will be external biwire with it. Certainly an affordable wire, I think it is Tc12
I really like the extreme value anticables present, IF WAF can be overcome. My brother fan his 3a sig for years w them, untill a move caused change in WAF, he now has a shotgun biwire pair of type 4

Vandersteen and Low of AQ share the dbs patent and most v dealers carry AQ. The model 7 amos come w 128 v DBS and AQ speaker cables for a reason, but you should think of them as a system

trying other wire is always good

seriously, if somebody wants to borrow the Type 6 ( which is ancient by AQ standards, by all means just send a pm )

I have spent most of my audio journey with vintage gear. The best speakers I have owned are Vandersteen 2C and now 3A. For my small room, I would easily trade my 3A's for some 2Ce Sig II's. They would be perfect.

If you are enjoying the Advents more than the Vandersteen's, that tells me there are contributing factors that are not the speakers. Like others have mentioned, positioning is important, and I personally think Sound Anchors are the only choice over stock stands. They make a difference.

I have used Supra Quadrax and Canare Star Quad cables. I like the equally. 

Early on, I tried to drive my 2C's with a Parasound HCA-1500, HCA-2200, B&K EX440, and settled on going mono bridge with two Parasound HCA-1500's. That sounded the best. However, I didn't read the FAQs on the Parasound site and ended up with two amps with blown outputs on the L channel. All I can say is that for me, 200+ wpc gave me the performance I wanted. As some would say, they "woke up". 

I have never had any sibilance. Like all my gear, I keep my pots at neutral. However, in the different spaces I've had my system, I have increased the setting on both mid and treble 0.5 - 1.0 db.

The other BIG thing is you MUST pull away from the walls. I don't recall you mentioning how you had your speakers positioned, but in my 11x13 room, I had the speaker center point ~40 inches from the back wall and ~30 inches from the side walls, with slight toe in. Maybe half an inch.

All to say that when you dial your system in with these speakers, I don't know of any speakers at the same price point that can deliver the impact, clarity, and enjoyment I have had. I have owned Vandersteen's more than any other speaker. And for context, here are the speakers I have owned, in no particular order.

ADS L570
Advent "The Loudspeaker" with fried egg tweeter
Allison One
Allison Two
B&W DM110i
Boston Acoustics A40
Boston Acoustics A150
Dahlquist DQ-8
Dahlquist M903
DCM Time Window 3 (currently own)
Infinity Reference Studio Monitors (RSM)
JBL Jubal L65
Klipsch KG 3.2
Miller & Kreisel S-1B & V-1B (recapped and currently own)
NHT SuperOne 2.1 (on living room HT)
Paradigm 3se Mk2
Polk Monitor 7b
Quad 12L
Vandersteen 2C
Vandersteen 3A (currently own)

Now that I think of it, the Infinity RSM's gave the 3A's a run for the money on certain material, usually classic rock that gets congested. The Miller & Kreisel setup is the main one I'm using now while I wait for my Parasound amp to get fixed. Then the Vandies will come back into play.

I use an Ayre AX5/20 with built in cross over.

Off topic: I thought you moved on from the Ayre? I love my AX-5 Twenty, probably the best piece I will ever own. I decided I couldn't wait to save for Treo CTs and bought used Thiel CS2.4SEs. I have since replaced everything from the binding posts to XOs to driver hookup wire (under the tutelage of Tom Thiel, Jim's brother). I am *super* happy.
Somewhat on topic: After break-in on my 2CeSig IIs, the midrange remained somewhat veiled. I was using a single run of Cardas Neutral Reference with an el cheapo jumper. I found a killer deal on two pairs of used Cardas Golden Reference and biwiring really opened up the sound. Still running the GRs on my Thiels which are now configured for biwiring. Replacing the OEM hookup wiring in the Thiels to Cardas nicely snapped the sonic picture into focus. I strongly recommend Cardas but AQ is also a good choice.

Very nice of Jim to offer for sure.  I have found that the AQ cables/cords are the most neutral I've ever tried with my Steen's (Quatro) and it's not close. I use an Ayre AX5/20 with built in cross over.  It's a killer set up that could be a bit hot on top I guess. Ayre can be hype detailed.  With a basic set up (thanks Johnny) and AQ cables it just makes great music that I am able to listen to all day without any fatigue. That's not easy to do with 'hifi' speakers.

AQ for my ears.

@tomic601 - you are indeed a gentleman. Very generous offer.
OP- Richard Vandersteen voices his speakers using AQ cables. That being said, I'm very happy with the sound of Anticables (also solid core).

Tom

I did follow the setup protocol. I noticed the decay was highly dependent on rake angle and listening height.

Yes, I used multi-strand speaker cable. I owned some Type 4 in the past with my other speakers and wasn't impressed to be honest. I may try some again as my local dealer sells it very cheap. 

I have a nice 12’ set of type 6 in a shotgun biwire config, vandersteen spades at speaker end, they have about 6 k miles on them, I loan them to unbelievers, all I ask is return shipping via USPS flat rate box...$13

i am not an AQ dealer

@bstatmeister,
I would contact Audioconnection. Johnny sells AQ and his prices are very good. Plus, if you have any issues, he will definitely sort the out.
B

Agree with AC. With Vandersteen, type of speaker cable and following Vandersteen's set up procedure is critical for best performance.

Could someone provide a link to the AQ type 4 solid core speaker cable and also a link to the interconnects? I suppose I could google it, but you guys might have a 'preferred' site with a good price, etc...

+1 to audioconnection.  My 3A sigs were glaring until the modest cost stranded speaker cable was replaced.  

(((Rest of my system is probably)))
Did you mention what interconnects and speaker wires?Did you read and understand the owners manual perform the proper tilt back protocol?How far out from the front wall were you?The decay you enjoyed is part of time correct design but sizzle you mentioned are easily revealed by Vandys and usually from modest cost multi-strand wire that’s causing interaction.Easily fixed with AQ type 4 solid core or above and a matching AQ interconnect.
Best JohnnyR

I appreciate all the input.

For some reference on the sibilance I heard with the 1Cis: Yesterday I bought a pair of near-mint Large Advents (77'), the ones with the orange "fried egg" tweeter. I kid you not, they sound better than the 1Cis ever did in the month I owned them...well, aside from the decay factor. However, I noticed the Advent tweeters exhibit a similar sibilance with some recordings. The same applies to my EPI 100s (I have 6 pairs of speakers currently). In my system, the 1Ci tweets were no more refined than those of these vintage models. 

Rest of my system is probably considered "mid-fi" around these parts. Amps are the Rogue CMII and Yamaha A-S1100. Current sources are Pro-Ject Pre BoxS2 Digital and an Acoustic Signature Wow XL turntable with Hana SL cart. Parasound JC3 Jr. for the phono stage. The most refined speakers I own at the moment are JM Reynaud Bliss Silvers - best tweeters out of speakers I've owned but not the best I've heard. 

How would you guys rate the carbon tweeter against a good beryllium unit? Since I run stereo subs crossed over at 120Hz, I'm thinking I might be better off with the VLR CTs.