🙄 Broken record.
Cable upgrades
Happy Holidays to all!
I’m reconfiguring my system and am interested in upgrading my interconnects and possibly my speaker cables, and I was wondering if you could make some recommendations.
I was running Audio Sensibility Impact SE XLR between my Benchmark DAC3 HGC (as a DAC/pre) and my Benchmark AHB2 power amp. The amp is running bi-wired Kimber Cable 8TC (I think that’s the model #) to a pair of ATC SCM40 tower speakers. In this setup the bass is tight and the mids are clean - overall I’m quite happy - but sometimes I feel, for my ears, I’d love a bit more openness / brightness in the higher end.
My questions are: would improved XLR interconnects help to open up the top end a bit, without being harsh, and perhaps increase the dimensionality of the soundstage? Or would I be better off starting with upgrading the speaker cables? I’ve been looking at the Cardas Parsec level of cable, and could perhaps stretch to the Clear line, pending your recommendations.
Also, one other question: pending the possible move to 2 AHB2s (in mono-block configuration), do both XLR interconnects have to be the same length? If not, would it cause any timing issues between, say, a 2' XLR and a 6'?
I’d appreciate any guidance. Many thanks in advance.
Best, JAMES
137 responses Add your response
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@magnuman Thanks for your posts. Like you, I have appreciated the Audio Sensibility OCC cables. I had a pair of Statement SEs that sounded very good. I opted to replace them with the Neotech 3001 MkIs, as I thought they were even better. I'm looking forward to trying the Acoustic Zen line at some point. I believe they use OCC as well? I did find that added silver was a bit too much in my system. Instead of the treble frequencies getting a lift, it seemed, to my ears, to be more of a 'tilt', and the low-end slam was attenuated. That said, synergy is in the ears of the beholder, haha! Best, JAMES. |
@audphile1 @mclinnguy Great leads, thanks! I’m going to hold off on trying AZs while I let the Cardas GR settle in. And — because I just bought a used Cardas Clear Beyond Power cord! Arriving tomorrow! Lots of experimenting to do. Gonna try it on my Lumin U2, my PS Audio Duet (w U2 & DAC3 plugged in), and of course, on my AHB2. Hopiing for some wow moments! Best, JAMES |
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@magnuman Could you please use a more respectful tone in your posts? Both@decooney and @audphile1 have been more than generous with their time and expertise, and I’ve learned a lot from them in this thread. Best, JAMES |
James that’s awesome! Yeah definitely get acquainted with the Cardas cables first. @magnuman is this how you talk to people in person as well? |
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No need, he’s messed with it all, seen it all, heard it all, and decided to buy/lease his own mining operation to source some of the best copper in the world. Less known that many come to him for his copper, and use it in their cables, with more than a few manufacturers others mentioned here a lot lately on Agon too. Sold off my last four pairs of OCC high end cables to new owners last year. Nice but nowhere near the level of some of my best Cardas Clear line stuff. A different league that is. |
@jimboman it was great to read they did reterminate yours for you while they were there being serviced and certified. I had a few pairs of the older Golden Cross ICs done the same way, with the new solderless method - with compression connectors. The result is not meant to be an overly-forward -or- ridiculously expansive type of sound and presentation. It’s just "there" in front of you, in a nice way. After the cables are left in place connected, undisturbed, It will be interesting to see what you think at the 30-day point. Best of Luck on the journey 👍 |
Thanks @decooney I’m not sure exactly what Cardas did, but they certainly went above and beyond the minimum. The cables definitely sound better than before their factory visit. I’m giving them overnight cycles, and they are connected and will stay in place, as you suggested, for 30 days before I make a decision. At this point, I would categorize their sound exactly as you did — not overly forward, just ‘there’. We’ll see how that evolves over time. Best, JAMES |
Well, this almost feels like it should be the start of a new thread, but -- just plugged the Cardas Beyond Power cable into my PS Audio Duet (which is feeding the Lumin U2 & Benchmark DAC3 HGC via stock PCs) -- and it feels like my system just took a massive leap forward! First blush is a cleaner, more detailed presentation, but not harsh or etched. Saxophones in the Coleman Hawkins encounters Ben Webster sound very smooth, and that sometimes screechy 'kazoo' quality is gone. I can hear the piano much more articulated. The soundstage is wider. The upright bass is not MIA, even with the Cardas Golden Reference XLRs, which up until now, felt a bit bass-shy. I have yet to listen to anything else, and this is totally 'first blush' perceptions -- but I'd say this upgrade is a game-changer. Feels like my components just took a leap upwards in quality. I was hoping for a 'wow' moment, and I think I've got one! The feeling of wanting to revisit all your library is very strong right now. The sound feels more confident, less strained, and that makes me feel more relaxed while I listen, and is deepening my enjoyment of the music. That is quite astonishing to me. And I was worried that I had jumped off the deep end in spending as much as I did on the Beyond Power cable. It's turning out to be one of the best upgrades I've made. Woooo Hooooo! JAMES. |
@mclinnguy Yeah! That's the crazy thing. Even with the OEM PCs on the streamer and DAC, the improvement is massive, right outta the box. I do have an AQ NRG-4 PC supplying the AHB2 amplifier, from a dedicated 10AWG 20-amp line. Now I have to figure out what to replace the OEM PCs with. Not sure I can afford more Beyond Power cables, but perhaps a more modest improvement will still work well? Super fun! JAMES. |
I hear ya, it takes time, for me many years to finally get every piece upgraded, and when it is done start all over upgrading again. Part of the fun though. There are many in here who have responded already who have plenty more experience cable swapping and upgrading than me, so they will chime in regarding whether it is better to stick to one brand, or mix them up for different flavours. But you have 2 of the most important components covered. It is nice to just skip the lower end power cables and jump right up to the thousand dollar ones (+), as that makes a more memorable impact (as you just witnessed) but I don’t think it’s a bad idea to find some used Audio Sensibility statement’s for example on CanuckAudio at a good price in the mean time as you will most likely be able to sell them for what you paid for them, as they hold their value well and are popular in Canada, and it helps train your ears and keep you satisfied for short time periods. Decisions decisions. In the mean time enjoy re-discovering all those tunes you thought you knew well. 😎 |
Thanks @mclinnguy Your comments are bang on the money! |
A good first sign.👍 |
@jimboman since you already got the power cord…in my experience placing the best power cord on the amplifier makes a pretty big difference. Between the AQ and Cardas, I’d try the AQ on DAC and Cardas on amp. Worth a shot. |
@ghdprentice , great advice as always. Thanks. I’m really enjoying the Clear Beyond PC (even with the OEM cords on the front end). It’s even making the Golden Reference XLRs sound much more full. I’m going to leave the GFs in for a full month before attempting any further experimentation. In the meantime, I’m really enjoying the music! @audphile1 , I had the same idea as you to put the Cardas Beyond on the amp first, but the quickest swap was on the front end, and it’s sounding great! I will, as you suggest, try the Beyond on the amp. But I’m gonna stand pat for awhile yet. The current setup is really quite lovely! Thanks again to you both for your help/advice. Much appreciated. Best, JAMES |
@jafant I’m currently running in the revamped Cardas Gold Reference XLRs. Gonna do this for a month before deciding whether to move on or keep ‘em. Also really digging the most recent addition of a Cardas Clear Beyond power cord. It’s doing wonders for my digital front end. I’m bowled over by the improvement! Best, JAMES |
Hi folks: An update. 2+ weeks and 120+ hours of run-in on the Cardas Golden Ref XLRs. They are sounding good! Vocals are smooth, articulate. Soundstage is wide but not thin. Bass seems well-balanced, maybe not as beefy as some XLRs, but very pleasing and controlled. Great dynamics/slam. Highs are clean, clear, and not fatiguing. However, the biggest improvement was the addition of a Cardas Beyond Clear PC, currently supplying the Lumin U2 and Benchmark DAC3 HGC, via the PS Audio Duet. It was a game-changer. Like a new system. A true WOW factor improvement. I was shocked. I don't think I had an understanding of 'synergy' until I heard this change. I still have to experiment further, swapping the Beyond with the AQ NRG-4 (which is powering the amplifier on a direct 20A line), but it's sounding so good I am reticent to upset the balance! I still have to upgrade the stock PCs on the DAC and streamer, but I'm taking my time. And I am curious about going back to the Neotech Mk IIIs and seeing how they perform now. Originally, I felt the tonal balance was titled up, favouring the highs at the expense of the lows -- not all that different from what I felt about the Cardas GRs -- but now I wonder if that had more to do with the PC balance/synergy. Anyway, I promised myself I'd give the GRs at least a month in the system, even though at this point I don't expect much to change. I'll keep y'all posted on my further findings. Best, JAMES. |
Hello all! Well, after a handful of months, it feels like I've made huge progress in my system-refining journey. The most recent upgrades are: the aforementioned Cardas Beyond Power cable, which I'm using on my AHB2 amplifier, now utilizing a Cardas 4181 duplex outlet, on the 10 AWG, isolated ground, dedicated 20A line. I've added an Audioquest Tornado pc to the PS Audio Duet, which supplies power for the Lumin U2 streamer, the Benchmark DAC3 HGC -- and the newest component addition -- a Benchmark HPA4 preamp. (I also demoed an ARC LS16, which I liked quite well. It was a close battle, but I've decided to stick with the Benchmark. It performs very well, and has advantages in connectivity and synergy with the rest of the Benchmark 'stack') After extensive listening and running in, I've decided to keep my Cardas Golden Ref XLRs, running from the DAC to the HPA4. And I've added a set of Neotech MKI XLRs from the HPA4 to the AHB2. After testing many combinations, including the Neotech MKIIIs (which have 20% silver), I've found the Gold Ref/Neotech MKI combo to be the most musical, pleasing in my system. The most recent tweak has been moving to an Audioquest Diamond USB cable (up the line from the AQ Coffee USB I've had for years). The soundstage and detail with the Diamond seems much improved, with a greater sense of clarity. I'm also about to receive a Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB cable, which I'll compare to the AQ Diamond, before choosing one or the other. As of this writing, the only remaining upgrade on my list is the stock PCs on the streamer, DAC & preamp. I'm watching the used market, and hoping to keep the cable length down to 1M, to reduce cable clutter. If anyone has recommendations for source PCs, I'd love to hear them. I'm looking to spend max $1K USD for the three cords, ideally. The system is sounding really great, and refined, to my ears. I'm enjoying it very much. And I'm very grateful for all the advice I've received in this thread, particularly regarding improving the power equation of the system. It's made a huge impact...one that I would never have predicted. It's hard to believe that I could be almost done building my system, at least, for now. Lots of music to enjoy now, until the next bout of upgraditis! :-) Best, JAMES. |
Thought I'd chime in here, James. First, although it is usually VERY important to reasonably match lengths of speaker cables, there is almost no legitimacy to matching lengths of well-designed interconnects...especially noise-limiting balanced ones. Think about it. Balanced ICs are used for micing at very long lengths...and rarely equal lengths, given asymmetric recording geometries. So, if you're contemplating true solid Ag XLRs, for example (disclaimer: I am ArgentPur.audio), I would COMPLETELY countenance making an asymmetrical pair for you in order to save considerable expense. Indeed, I've used a balanced 3M+6M XLR pre-to-power duo for decades...NEVER needing to rebalance gain etc. But DO keep your speaker cables equal unless you have oversized cables linking to VERY high sensitivity and high impedance speakers that can mask the imbalance sonically. But this much harder to accomplish.... |
Thanks @subaruguru for the informative post. I really appreciate your knowledge and expertise. I ended up with symmetrical lengths of ICs, due to the addition of a preamp, and the subsequent repositioning of the components in my system. So I’m all set, for now. Best, JAMES |
Just skimming through some of the posts and wanted to toss out a recommendation if you are ever bored and want to try something different. I'm using the Analysis Plus Silver Apex XLRs in my system and they are EXACTLY what you described in your post that started this thread. Much more so than the Cardas Clear Reflection, which I also played with in my system. The Silver Apex add space and detail without being etched. If you have a chance to demo them, go for it. |
Thanks @badgerdms for the recommendation. Will add them to my list. I've noted a similar improvement to soundstage/detail by moving to the AQ Diamond USB cable between streamer and DAC, and I’m also demoing the Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8, which I believe is also silver-based. Best, JAMES |