Burn Twetter Speaker


This is the second time that the tweeter of one of my Rega RX Five speakers, bought used in a physical store, has burned out.



System Specifications:


 
  • Cabinet Construction: 18mm MDF Real wood veneer
  • Cabinet Design: Band pass enclosure
  • Dimensions (cm) H x W x D: 83.5 x 18.2 x 34.2
  • Weight (each): 16.6Kg
  • Reflex Port: Front ported
  • Impedance: Nominal 6Ω
  • Sensitivity: 89 dB
  • Power Handling: 110w per channel
  • High Frequency unit: Rega ZRR
  • Mid /bass driver (Doped cone): Rega DX-125
  • Side Bass Driver: Rega RR 7.8
  • Type: 2.5 way
I'm using (or was using) them with the Rega Brio-R:

Rega Brio-R Power Output:

Input sensitivities for rated output level:
Input 1 (Phono) input sensitivity = 2.1mV at 47KΩ In p a ra lle l w ith 2 2 0p F .
Maximum Input 1 (Phono) input level = 100mV.
Input 2 to 5 (Line) input sensitivity = 210mV at 47K.
Maximum Input 2 to 5 (Line) input level = 10.25V
Power outputs at 230/115V supply voltage:
50Watts RMS both channels driven into the rated load of 8Ω .
58Watts RMS one channel driven into the rated load of 8Ω .
73Watts RMS both channels driven into the rated load of 4Ω .
93Watts RMS one channel driven into the rated load of 4Ω .
Continued high level use into 4Ω may cause the case to exceed 40° C above the ambient
temperature.



I don't understand if this issue is due to a mismatch with the amplifier since the previous tweeter had already been replaced. i also read in a brochure that "The Rega RX Five speakers, with a power handling of 110W per channel and nominal impedance of 6 ohms, seem to be usable with an amplifier ranging from 30W to 500W, according to the instructions"



However, after reading a couple of articles like this one: Gear4Music Blog and Axiom Audio Blog, it seems that the minimum power of my amplifier may be too low to properly support the speakers.



Since I usually listen at high volumes, though never at maximum volume, I'm wondering if the problem might be due to some sort of clipping or excessive overheating of my Brio amplifier, which then damages the tweeter. I also don't understand why the issue only affects the same speaker each time, and not both.



Maybe an amplifier capable of delivering 100/150/200 watts would be more suitable to support the 110W at 6-ohm impedance of my speakers?



I look forward to your kind response
gio_992

+1 likely underpowered amps overdriven to clipping, therefore need more power OR lower volume to non-clipping level.  Much less  likely - tweeters not engineered well enough for longevity.

While its possible there may be a component problem in one of the speaker crossovers, it's my opinion that you need a lot more amplifier than you currently have and my guess is you would turn up your current amplifier even more if you could do it and hear clean sound. I am guessing that you probably NEED about 3 db or more headroom available in the amp if not more. 6 db wouldnt be too much to have if you want to ensure those tweeters survive. So in round numbers you have about 75 wpc available to you now with your current amp add 6 db more power and you are at 300 wpc. That would be a good place to start. If you know you are going to play loud having an amplifier that puts out twice the power of the speaker's power rating is not a bad place to start. This gets you close to that place where you are very certainly giving the speaker clean undistorted power. The distortion introduced by overdriving the amplifier creates overtones that almost certainly go up into the supersonic range above 20khz where the speakers are not designed to operate and those overtones are there in sufficient power to cause damage. Having too much clean power very rarely ever destroys a speaker under any kind of normal usage. Too little power kills tweeters with regularity...ask me how I know. Back in the day I had a 40 wpc dynaco amp SCA80Q that regularly blew tweeters in my larger Advent speakers. When I upgraded to a hafler DH-200 with a 115 wpc my tweeter problems ceased to exist. I think you will have similar results. Good luck and let us know how things turn out. :)

About 35 years ago I bought my first decent system. I was young, cranked the hell out of it. Turned it all the way up and just a tweak down when the amp red-lined. I went through tweeters in both cabinets. Paid to heave them replaced. Tech was nice enough to explain to me about Square Wave Damage.

On an oscilloscope, a sound wave should look like a wave. When you overdrive the amplifier, the sound wave shows up without curves, but with horizontal and vertical lines. Like a square.

I didn't hear any clipping or distortion when doing the damage but the damage does occur. I have since learned you don't drive a solid state amp at more than 50% of it's power. Now I have 2 amps and less hearing, LOL!

I'm no audio expert by far, but I have not had a problem with speakers since maintaining the 50% rule.

If you read the Stereophile review of the amp, there seems to be some slight mismatch in channel performance. It would be interesting to compare which side has the tweeter fails with the measures for that side in the review. As to the clipping, again this review tested clipping at about 50 watts into 8 ohm and 80 watts into 4 ohms. As speakers in use constantly present variable loads these numbers are "nominal" measures and not absolute. Use them only as comparatives to other like tested products. The OP states he plays at loud levels. His 6 ohm load approximates 65 watts, give or take, at clipping. Remember this is "nominal/static" impedance not music. Musical transients could easily cause this amp to clip at loud levels. I agree with most everyone else that it is time to look for an amp that is better matched to his use habits. An amp comparatively rated at 100 watts or more seems a good upgrade for now and for possible speaker upgrade in the future.

It happen to my Tekton impact monitor tweeter because I got so excited listening to the music and increase the volume beyond the speakers can handle. Lesson learned I am care ful now..Cost $200 plus  labor and tweeter.

@mswale 

" If the same tweeter keeps blowing there might be something wrong with the XO. "

Agreed!  Thus, my statement: "Just curious if it’s the same channel that’s failing?"

Could be a number of technical issues, including the XO, amp, etc.

Might also want to pull out the crossovers and take a looks. If the same tweeter keeps blowing there might be something wrong with the XO. Depending on how old the speakers are, the XO might be worth rebuilding, or at least re-capping. 

Second thing WPC does not have anything to do with clipping an amplifier.

                                         Talk about an ignorant statement!

     Just to be clear: an amp’s power supply and number/type of output devices determine what WPC it can cleanly output, prior to clipping.  Bottom line- it’s still all about exceeding the amps output power (WPC).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)#:~:text=Because%20the%20clipped%20waveform%20has,or%20simply%20blow%20a%20fuse.

Hi, gio992.

Just curious if it’s the same channel that’s failing? Not sure how relevant this is, but could open further (possibly relevant?) conversation.

Speakers have voice coils that warm up when power is sent through them. Sort of like an electric range. The more current, the hotter it gets. Along with the omelette that’s sitting in the pan on top of it. When sustained power passes through a tiny tweeter wire there’s not a lot of headroom (or, forgiveness) there.

The combination of a not-so-efficient speaker and moderate powered amp at high volume levels is, historically, not the best plan for success. Using a car analogy: I like to launch my vehicle from 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. I can attempt this in my wife’s 99HP Fiat 500x convertible until I a) burn out the clutch -- or b) die of old age, whichever comes first. Or do it on the first try with my Shelby GT350. Clutch still fully intact, and I am only seconds older, rather than years older.

What we’re dealing with here is some sort of dynamic compression. You want the music to be hard-hitting, energetic, and dynamic. Something is presenting limitations to the process. Most likely, the amp is just running out of "oomph" and presenting sustained, long duration energy to a tweeter that’s not a fan of long duration energy. Tweeters can survive short term peaks, provided there is sufficient space between the notes to allow them to cool off. One speaker manufacture of a speaker line we sold claimed to send a 400 watt peak into their tweeters to test them. This might just be "technobabble", but it’s not out of the realm of possibility that could be valid if presented to the tweeter for a few microseconds.

Anything you do to decrease dynamic compression will be helpful. Crossovers with "production grade parts" can be a factor. I have not been able to find out anything about the Rega RX5 crossovers. My assumption is that they are using good "stuff" inside. (We’ve had very good results with improving the signal path to tweeters with our mods and getting a much more lively tweeter output -- thus lowering the need to crank up the volume). Higher gauge speaker cables can be a factor in dynamic compression. Dynamics get squashed -- turn up the volume to compensate. Broken tweeters. And last, but not least, I’d take a good look at the power being delivered to your electronics. I found that power delivery upgrades (wall plugs, PCs, and real power distribution vs "surge protectors") helps ALL components, improves instantaneous response and gets you noticeably most impactful output. When you can reduce the volume knob just a tad and obtain the same (or higher) perceived volume level, less risk of burning out a tweeter.

Or, get a bigger amp, and meatier speaker cabling, and improved power delivery just to be safe.

Good luck.

I don't think you need 200 watts but definitely need an amplifier that is stable at higher output.

Check out Klause Bunge's offerings at Odyssey Audio.  I have the Kismet and never parting.

https://odysseyaudio.com/#

 

 

not saying it isn’t your amp, however some tweeters burn out too easily.

The beloved Dynaudio D21 was OEM Tweeter for the JSE Infinite Slope Model II’s. I got mine used with burnt tweeters, replaced them with Dynaudio 21’s.

Every party my teenage son had cost him $60. when I found a burnt tweeter the morning after. They would have the wrong input, jack the volume up, then finally find the source button with the volume way up: snap, crack, sizzle.

I read about a pair of Focals, ...... with ferro fluid, got them, they sounded awesome, never burnt out, same system, same crazy teenagers.

My friend has some SEAS tweeters in one pair of his Model II’s, and a Morel Tweeter in the other pair he has. They both sound terrific.

There may be recommendations for alternate tweeters for your speakers. I got advice from Madisound in the past, he got advice from John Sollecito (the JS in JSE), and Parts Express.

2 things  send the tweeter to Bill,. Legal at Miller Sound in PA to see if he can repair and maybe tell you why it keeps burning out

Second thing WPC does not have anything to do with clipping an amplifier.

 

Happy Listening.

To put things another way, you need sensitive speakers for low power amps, or powerful amps for insensitive speakers.

 

For a decent sized room, I start thinking in terms of 200watts for an 89db speaker if I want it loud.
Remember, it takes twice the power to raise SPL by 3dB. If you are trying to listen to something with lots of bass at high volume, you will clip the amp very easily.

 

Here is a nice white paper on the subject from Crown

https://www.crownaudio.com/how-much-amplifier-power

 

Every response so far is pretty much spot on.

You absolutely need a more powerful amp, and I wouldn't be surprised if you ALSO need speakers that can handle playing as loud at you probably play.  How big is the room you are playing in? 

To be a bit more specific, would an amplifier that reaches at least 150/200 watts be more effective with my Rega speakers, helping to avoid clipping? Rega rx five : Impedance: Nominal 6Ω

  • Sensitivity: 89 dB

  • Power Handling: 110w per channel

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It looks like you're clipping your amplifier. That creates HF distortion and burned tweeters are a common consequence.

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