I used to be a firm believer that the signal path should be as short as possible and, as such, I have been using the two-channel system without a dedicated preamp. For a long period of time, I have relied on the digital attenuator in DAC for volume control, knowing the digital attenuator would compress the dynamic range of the sound. Therefore, I switch the volume control on DAC to the fixed mode, bypass the digital attenuation and use the unity gain knob in the back of the power amp for volume control. Depending on the music recording level, however, sometimes I need to turn the unity gain control way down to get proper sound level. This is particularly painful when I use the full-balance connection because of the double voltage gain.
In short, I am looking for a budgetary preamp with quality volume control that either has relay switch stepped control or precise potentiometer for left-right channel match to curb the issue. I try to summarize important (to me) performance catgories as best I can for various good sounding preamp I know (with or without headphone amp/dac) as shown below. It is found the Schiit Magnius happens to have the highest performance ratio. However, I am pretty sure that I likely miss other good performers due to my limited knowledge and would like to solicit for your inputs. Your kind assistance is appreciated.
Great. One of the reason I did not include Freya + in my list is because I do not want to bother with tube replacement in the long run. But Schiit says they have longer lasting alternative called solid state tube, LISST, that triggers my interest. What do you feel about them, @audioman58, @ditusa and @riie if you don’t mind? Do they really sound good as claimed? If not, what are the good choices?
I have no experience with LISST tubes. See my previous post below the Schiit Freya+ stereo preamplifier:
@jayctoy@ditusa @wolfe_garcia @georgehifi and others who have commented so positively on the Schitt gear. Good to hear such high praise of the Freya. Quick question - is it your "forever" preamp? Or are you of a mind to eventually replace it with something else?
The Schiit Freya+ stereo preamplifier is without doubt an excellent performer, Its three preamps in one. I use it with my solid state amps and tube amp and it sounds great with stock tubes. My speaker’s efficiency is 2.7 % In my system the Freya+ is noise free. I use NOS 6sn7GT Ken-Rad (Pre-Ge) staggered plates with black carbonized glass. For me it’s a keeper. You will not find a better tube preamp that is balanced and remote controlled with a 5-Year Warranty and Easy Return Policy, and you can purchase brand new for $950.00! BTW, The Ken-Rad tubes are dated 1944 cost $300.00 factor that in the total price. You must try it in your rig to know if you like the way it sounds. Hope that helps. Mike 😎
Please see the article below for details for mods Freya+ preamp:
Thanks, @rtrlover. By reading its description on PS Audio website,
"At this instrument's heart is the analog GainCell. Rather than using additional sonically-degrading elements inserted in the signal path to control volume, the GainCell eliminates this problem without additional circuitry in the signal path by varying its gain in response to front panel controls."
I assume that the volume control is applied in the analog stage but not 100% sure. Especially, if I was not mistaken, Paul has mentioned that he think the digital attenuation is a better way for volume control. Do you know?
Maybe a bit over your budget, but used will get you closer. Try the P.S. Audio Stellar Gain Cell which has a built in DAC. The gain cell does away with physical volume control. Awarded and highly recommended.
@zlone Good to know the universal remote work on the Freya+. I will probably get one if I do clinch the Freya+ but I am still torn between several candidates mainly Pre90, Freya s/+ and Rogue RP1.
@lanx0003Nowadays not having remote for a stereo system is a crime
Agreed, no preamp would be up for my consideration without one. To me the choice is between Schiit's or Topping based on your list. FWIW, I have a Freya + and I bought a cheap learning remote because I don't care for the controls on the supplied remote. It sure looks nice though.
Hello I have been in this for 40+ years seen and done everything
I have a moderate system for the Mrs ,and building a real smart $$ doing many mods for stock gear never top parts especially Loudspeaker Xovers,
And electronics 4-1 ratio or more Vs $ cost of parts - R&D overhead and markup
keep this in mind , I have a Great Vacuum tube guru friend designer Radu Tarta
who will be building me a bucket list 6Sn7 preamp for $6k would cost you without any Bas $20k retail . Being an ex dealer I pop the hood to see the quality or what’s
lacking ,for example the inexpensive ST Freya+ There are 4 wima caps. Upgrade to the VH audio Odam great improvement ,but only if you plan on keeping it
and synergistic purple fuse Yes does makes a noticeable improvement 3 x better conductance then junk steel zinc buzz fuse
vacuum tubes especiallly new old stock matched. You can literally tune your preamp to your taste, who gives a 💩 if they have to be replaced you are talking 3-3-5 years . There being 4 tubes R side voltage gain ,L side cathode- output ,Right side has more influence I put specific ones R side ,L side another to complement the attributes you are looking for ,, tube amp and preamp can be too much of a good thing ,depending on tube types li grew on tubes in the 70s , these tubes 1950
Sylvania-RCA venture don’t buy the fake tungsols and mullard they are all made in Russia ,they are ok. But fir an extra $100 day $300 a quad night and day better
100 hr runin. Don’t forget back then there was no Solid state inspection of filaments 10 x better, and critical extracting the gas to create the vacuum not even close
10%+ distortion vs 3-4 % max and their secret sauce every mfg hsd
go look up Andy at viintage tube services a true expert kcheck out his website in depth you will learn tons about how they build them ,Andy has the original testing equipment from the real NJ Tungsol ,and RCA . If you want to be a true Audiophile don’t get caught up on $small change , if I don’t have it I save a month
go see Vintage tube services , online Ebay onky if the person has a great feedback rating .
the Solid state tubes ok at best ,as I stated real nos tubes you Taylor the sound to your taste and last far longer then new fake name tubes. And the Freya+ has 3 modes you can click passive ,no thanks , a active solid state mode decent , then vacuum tube , the new tubes they use are decent but not close to good ,
I have experience with LISST it sounds good a little flatter than tubes but still good. If you don’t want to fiddle with tubes there is Freya S it has the same volume control as Freya+.
@tomcarr Toppings are raved by many reviewers / users including the class A rating by Stereophile (for Pre90). At the same time, one of the popular reviewer (do not wish to mention his name) critizes the A90D actually sounds only mediocre. In particular, he emphasizes the initial attack from A90D is impressive, weighty but that is pretty much it. There is no significant micro dynamics and reverberation coming after that, making the amp sound too analytical / surgical. My question to you is do you feel that is a general sound traits of Topping based on your listening experience?
Yes, @zlone,interestingly I thought about that too. For example, I was really in self debate as to how much weights I should place on "remote." Nowadays not having remote for a stereo system is a crime but then the quality of remote is also an issue too like Topping’s. Aside from that, quality of volume control and power supply are certainly two other criteria should receive heavier weight. I sort of address the power supply issue by adding a proper cost to the units not having linear / xformer power supply.
I owned the original Freya (with tubes) and also own the Topping. Both sound very good. The Topping is a little quieter and a little more neutral than the Freya. After comparing the two, I sold the Freya. I've had the Topping for a year or so and have no desire to look for a replacement. It's very quiet, very clear, and very neutral. It's also very basic, but that is just fine with me. Just my 2c. YMMV.
Good analysis, but I think there should be some weight added for overall performance based on professional and owner reviews. Very subjective, I understand, but pretty important when choosing a preamp. I think the Freya S would rank higher in this case.
Great. One of the reason I did not include Freya + in my list is because I do not want to bother with tube replacement in the long run. But Schiit says they have longer lasting alternative called solid state tube, LISST, that triggers my interest. What do you feel about them, @audioman58, @ditusa and @riieif you don’t mind? Do they really sound good as claimed? If not, what are the good choices?
@audioman58Thank you for the coveat on the Alps / Bourne pot. Regarding AGD Master 19, I just listen to MidFi Guy channel where he stated, on the positive side, wide SS, smooth, polite and affordable price but, on the flip side, not as precise, of clarity as its competitor almost like "tube amp in the solid state form." So, it seems there are coloration / distortion applied on notes through the amp, and that is sort of contradicting to transparency, neutral attributes I prefer from a preamp. But your recommendation is appreciated. I do have an eye on its big brother Master 9 though which AGD claims to be neutral and least color sound (but same claim is on Master 19 as well), but it is sort of difficult to come across reliable review on these Chinese made product.
I am going to put Rogue RP-1 (used slightly over a grand), and Freya + too, in my list for now and expand the list to cover pricier units.
For the record modt cheaper preamps have a round silver volume pot made by alps ,or Bourne ,they ruin the output resolution for they are only 2 pieces of plastic with a conductive coating ,
Audio GD has a master 19 you can get just over $1k
from underwood Wally that is built very well all good grand components
and a 100 step Relay controlled preamp with is far more accurate and 2 Big Rcore transformers for big dynamics and bass ,with a slightly warm balance
@kr4 Silly me. Schiit gears are the same. I was confused at the time when I include the Benchmark and Cambridge all-in-one units in the group comparison. I have taken out which category. Thanks.
@jtcfRogue entry level tube preamp RP1 is more affordable, feature packed and has received favorable reviews. Look promising but, with the similar money, I stumble across also well-received Integrated amp Pharaoh mk 1 (hybrid tube preamp used) for sale. Do you have experience with it?
I agree that many have appreciated Placette products over the years so when I was comparing high end volume controls, I inquired to them back in January.
FYI - unfortunately, below is the message I received back:
Please make a note.
Placette Audio has closed.
Regard
Debra
I strongly suggest looking at the Hattor and/or Khozmo line.
I think you’d be remiss to not look at Placette preamps. They use Vishay resistors in their volume controls and are about as pure straight wire with gain as you can get. They’re all about purity and accuracy in the volume control. That’s their Holy Grail. Hope this helps. http://www.placetteaudio.com/
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