I need help on selecting a replacement MC cartridge. Two years ago I put together my first serious vinyl system:
- Transfiguration Axia S MC cartridge - VPI Scout 2 with upgraded heavy platter and JMW 10 tonearm - EAR 83P preamp - Line Magnetic LM-211 IA tube amp - Legacy Studio HD Monitor speakers
Note I listed the cartridge first - I did a lot of research and perhaps spent an inordinate amount on it, but I got an amazing deal from a EU vendor from Audigon ($1100US - new in box). Loved the set up! Sound was better than I thought possible :-)
Now the sad part - last week my house cleaner snapped the cantilever off while dusting :-(. I had told her to leave the stereo to me to dust, but I guess the desire to clean what I hadn't for some time got the better of her. As the 10 JMW sticks out a bit from the VPI base and the acrylic dust cover no longer fits, it was exposed. Unfortunately, the plastic cantilever guard was such a difficult fit that I was more afraid of snapping the cantilever off trying to put it on and take off that I never used it.
I checked with Needle Doctor about replacing but as I suspected they cannot. I have emailed Immutable/Transfiguration but no response :-(
Sorry for the long preamble, but I had to commiserate with some one who might feel for me (my wife doesn't get it- she is happy listening to an Amazon Echo Plus).
Checking current prices on the Axia reveal $2450 new, $1600 used. Currently cannot afford that. I need to come in under $1000. Need some help from you more experienced audiophiles out there! My listening tastes are a bit eclectic, but center on rock and blues. Want to stick with a low output MC.
Here are some that I have been considering: - Ortofon Quintet Black S MC - Audio-Technica AT33Sa - Dynavector 20X2L - Sumiko Blackbird Low MC
I know some of these may retail over $1k, but I am not adverse to a low hour used cartridge or scouring the net for good deals.
Any help on the above options or alternatives would be very much appreciated :-)
I think I would like to try a good MM with the EAR 834P - I am open to trying something vintage, but not coming up with availability on the ones mentioned above.
@rykk999 If you want something serious under $700, not just a waste of time and money on average modern MM, then look for vintage Audio-Technica AT-ML150 OCC, Stanton SC-100 WOS or 980, Pickering XSV-3000 or higher number models. Maybe Grace F-9, Victor X-1IIe, Sony XL-50.
Those cartridges are definitely superior to almost everything in MM field you can find today. The reason is the best motors, the coil wiring like AT's OCC, the cantilever (often Boron and Beryllium), the stylus tip (often MicroLine, Stereohedron). And the price for them all is something like $400-700.
it depends on the arm, but AT, Victor, Sony are mid compliance and fine almost for any tonearm. The Stanton, Pickering, Grace are high compliance and better on lightweight arms.
"I need to find a way to ensure it doesn't happen again... any ideas welcome!" Just introduce the pay roll deduction plan to your cleaning lady and let her know what that cartridge cost. She won't even vacuum near it! BillWojo
Hi folks- time for an update. I am not super happy with the Axia repair. Maybe I am just biased now, and without anything else to compare the sound to, maybe it’s hard to judge. Regardless, it is time to try something new. I think I would like to try a good MM with the EAR 834P - I am open to trying something vintage, but not coming up with availability on the ones mentioned above. For new MM is have seen good reviews on the Vessel 3SM. https://www.lpgear.com/product/THEVESSELR3SM.html Any comments on this one? Or other recommendations? I am curious to try the EAR834P with MM setting.
I expect to also get another MC, thinking about the AT-ART9? Or also hearing good things about the soundSmith zephyr, which I understand is considered a good match for my vpi table.
Appreciate any help, particularly if you have experience with the EAR834P.
Well, adaptors are easily available and inexpensive. LP Gear sells a better than average one. Re 75K: As you probably know some MM enthusiasts claim 100k is ideal. I’ve always stuck with 47k. 75k might be interesting.
Well my Transfiguration Proteus is malfunctioning, don’t believe it is a stylus problem, discussed this in another thread. At any rate I think I am screwed. Fortunately I have an Ortofon Jubilee as a backup with about 800 hours on it.
I have yet to try an MM or MI. Has anyone tried an MM or MI with Allnic H3000? I am not in position to spend $4 to $5K on a cartridge and think it might be time to try something different.
I am sure others can offer suggestions as well. All of the MM’s that I have used with the EAR have been vintage MM’s and not that easy to find: AT ATML170-OCC
AT-ML170 OCC is amazing MM cartridge, no doubt. The AT-ML180 OCC or OFC is even better.
More affordable and not so rare is AT-ML150 OCC with Beryllium cantilever and MicroLine stylus ! Highly recommended if the budget is not high.
Rare Sony XL-50 (MM) is my new discovery (Boron Pipe cantilever).
I can add in the top list (they are very expensive): Grace F-14 or LEVEL II with Beryllium, Ruby, Sapphire or Boron cantilevers, those carts have the best profiles (MicroRidge). Amazing cartridges, expecially LC-OFC versions.
You can always try F-9 with some nice styli if the budget for Grace is not high.
I am sure others can offer suggestions as well. All of the MM’s that I have used with the EAR have been vintage MM’s and not that easy to find: AT ATML170-OCC, Empire 4000D III, Andante, Azden and Acutex LPM 420STR. All are excellent (the Andante not quite “excellent”). The EAR is a beautiful and fairly lush sounding unit and benefits from a cartridge that is not too “soft” sounding or lush itself. I found the Empire to be too soft sounding with the EAR in my all tube system. The best tonal balance was achieved with the Azden and the Acutex. Both those cartridges offered excellent definition and detail. I have not heard it, but the Ortofon 2M Black has been getting a lot of attention. Perhaps others will chime in. Good luck.
This is not a pitch for any inherent superiority of MM cartridges as some believe; there are great examples of both MM and MC. However, I know the EAR very well and I can say with confidence that the MM section is inherently better sounding than the MC section (MM+transformers). If the overall gain structure of your system allows it you may want to consider an excellent MM instead. Its higher output (+3mv) would allow you to bypass the transformers for potentially much better sound.
Hi folks, and yeti42- I have received the repaired cartridge about 3 weeks ago now. I have held off writing anything as the new stylus has broken in. I tried to take some pics, but I do not have a macro lens and they did not turn out very well.
So- I can't claim to have the ear of a true audiophile, but I know what I like, and I really liked my set up. Again, I do not have any other cartridge to compare with. After reinstalling the repaired Axia I felt that the mids seemed a bit flat - this was noticeable with female vocals. As it has broken in, it has improved, but I can't help but feel that it is not as clean and transparent as the original. But, I may have been biased by some of the comments on this thread. To be fair, without a true A-B trial it is very hard to judge.
Overall, I would say that I am happy with the result, as I can once again listen to music! For $445 to repair a bent housing and install the new boron cantilever and line contact stylus, I believe the results are worth it, compared to buying something equivalent to the original.
In the future, I will purchase another cartridge (thanks all for the recommendations!), and then be able to compare.
For now, all is good, and I very carefully attach the cover and move the arm to the center of turntable when the cleaner comes.
Did the third party Transfiguration repair ever happen and if so how did it turn out? I found this line in a Micheal Framer piece from Sept 2018 about the Ortophon Century but also covering a few recent deaths in the industry.
"Immutable Music’s Seiji Yoshioka, designer of the Transfiguration phono cartridges, passed away February 17, after a lengthy hospital stay. (I hadn’t written anything about this before because his family, which plans to keep the brand alive, wasn’t then ready to make an announcement.)" This seems to hold out a faint hope for the future of existing Transfiguration cartridges but I've found nothing else so far on the net about the brand continuing. My interest is I have a Proteus, which is still OK for now but will prove very difficult to replace when it wears out.
It’s a metaphor, nothing personal. You can ignore my statement (i don’t own a car and i don’t design cartridges), but read what a Lyra Cartridge designer (Jonathan Carr) posted long time ago, he is one of the most knowledgeable person on this forum when it comes to MC cartridges. I hope you know his own brand Lyra?
Boron cantilevers are all different, LineContact type diamonds are also different. This is what makes one cartridge different from another, but more important how all these parts work together and here we come to a calculation and some sort of secrets that only original cartridge designer understand.
I decided not to bother with my $4-5k LOMC cartridge when i realized no one can do what Nakatsuka-San is doing. Downgrading an ultra-high ends is not what i need. Instead, i just bought another cartridge and start my own reasearch by trying many different cartridges, they are all much lower cost (under $1.5). You know what? I am much more happy with a result. Same about refurbished or re-tipped vintage MM, the originals are superior, in fact most of them superior even compared to some very expensive MC (but this is another story).
I will repead that i often see re-tipped and refurbished cartridges on sale after people raving about them claiming they are better than the original.
Practically an MM and MI cartridges are so much better, even everyone’s favorite re-tipped always claiming the MI are much better than any MC (watch his lecture here). If Peter retipped many thousands cartridges and still pretty sure than MI is better then maybe all you need is his MI with replaceable stylus ?
@chakster Buying a Porsche may not be about being super cool. It may be a dream that one would love to fulfill before leaving this earth. I also don't think it is about being super rich. It is about trying to fulfill one's dreams and desires given the lot one has. I am also a sports car and motorcycle enthusiast. Currently I drive a Honda Civic, but that doesn't mean I don't aspire towards a Porsche (or Aston Martin, or last model Viper). Regarding a motorcycle, I am the proud owner of a 2007 Ducati Monster S4RS. To my eye, this is not only the best looking Ducati, but an amazing rush with 140hp and 400lbs. I bought it used with under 10k miles at a third of what the previous owner had into it. And for the most part, I do my own maintenance - it is a labor of love.
Regarding my recent love of analog audio, I bought the best components that I could afford at the time. I am not rich, and out of the entire system (see my original post for details), the cartridge was the only component that I bought new. At that, I got an amazing deal and only paid $1100US from a high end european audio broker.
I have been extremely happy with the outcome and relish my listening time. For me, this has nothing to do with being super cool, but at this stage of my life (just turned 59) it is about trying to get the most out of every moment. I am generally the only person that even listens to my system. Right now my finances are not such that I can buy a new or used Axia.
Does that mean I shouldn't have bought it if I can't afford to buy a new one? Not to me. Hopefully my finances will improve (working hard on that :-) and I will also be able to buy a used Aston Martin at some point. For now I will do the best I can with what I have and (try to) enjoy each day to its fullest.
Call Peter at Soundsmith and get his thoughts. He did excellent work replacing the cantilever and stylus on my Cardas Myrtle Heart, and was very accessible when I wanted to talk to him. Probably the best $450 I ever spent.
Hi folks, I appreciate the lively discussion but please keep to the topic and facts and try not to get "bent" out of shape (yes, pun intended :-).
As mentioned, Transfiguration is not able to do any repairs. I understand that the original artist will normally be the best way to ensure best results in replacing cantilever and stylus, but that is not available. I am not sure what percentage of the whole the cantilever and stylus make (likely very high), but the rest of the cartridge is a great base to work with and one that I am not ready to throw away.
As a mechanical engineer with semiconductor structure and interconnect experience, I know a little bit about materials and systems. The cantilever and diamond stylus are part of the cartridge system. Obviously, there are other parts that make a great cartridge, including housing design/material, magnet design/material, windings and coil design/material, and overall geometry. And of course quality. High end cartridges are almost more a work of art than mass produced, robot made electronics. A large part of the cost is in labor that is highly specialized. So yes, Van den Hul is best at repairing his own work.
That said, just as in art (or counterfeit $100 bills) there are people who can approach the work of the masters. They may not be 100%, but they may be very good so that 99.9% of people would not know the difference. Another part is obviously materials - I am assuming the the available boron cantilevers with line contact stylus are of good quality.
I do not know if Steve at VAS is such a person, but I am willing to take the chance. From what I have heard from others and from him, he is careful and takes pride in his work. That is all I can ask for at this point.
I will let you know my perspectives once I get it back.
I understand the point you are trying to make about retipping not being original but if I can get it 95% of the way there
With all my respect, i think it depends of the exact cartridge model.
I’ve owned refurbished cartridges, i wish to believe they are very close to the original, but when i compared them to the original they are not even close. Comparison is the key, we must have two samples to compare A/B in our systems. I did that, not even close (it wasn’t your job, but another popular retipper).
Just think of it like destroying a car engine. Even if you get a replacement engine from the manufacturer and when to the dealership to install it, it will not be the same as original because it won’t fit exactly like original ...
Yes, this is the reason why most of the manufacturers of ultra high-end do not bother with refurbishing or re-tip, they are simply offering a brand new cartridge for 60% of the retail (under their exchange programm via official distributors).
I am not the one who’s ready to pay 60% of retail when it comes to $3-5k cartridge, but for many serious audiophiles it is not a problem at all. My point is that when someone jump to a premium category he must stay there, it will cost a lot, but this is a premium segment (it’s always like that). For "normal" people we have tons of amazing cartridges to choose for $300-1500 (NOS, still sealed, lightly used or even brand new from honest sellers, from grey market sellers etc).
It’s not necessary trying to be super cool buying a Porsche if you can’t even pay for service. This is my point.
Why is it that you like to refer to people based on they're ethnicity rather than they're actual name you refer to people as Slavic or Polish or Mexician why don't you say they are black or Jewish or Muslim all of these people have names it is disrespectful to not use them even if it is just a screen name it is more meaningful and respectful than referring to them by their ethnicity?
@chakster I understand the point you are trying to make about retipping not being original but if I can get it 95% of the way there, that is already satisfactory for many people. You have to understand that 5% is sacrificed because of damage and small shifts. Just think of it like destroying a car engine. Even if you get a replacement engine from the manufacturer and when to the dealership to install it, it will not be the same as original because it won’t fit exactly like original with but it will feel very close and be driveable and many people are fine with that.
It’s funny to see our Mexican posts when he’s contradict with himself. Once he told us that only Ortofon can do the job to refurbish Ortofon cartridges, because they are so special and have an access to their own exclussively made materials, now he said that for another cartridge brands it does not matter. What a BS! This is typical double standards!
If anyone would like to re-cantilever VdH cartridge not by Mr.VdH himself, but at VAS or at Kim then it’s a downgrade for sure. Much lower price, but a downgrade in quality. This rule is the same for all ultra high-end cartridges from well known designers.
You want to believe that all the cartridges must be send to SoundSmith or whatever retipper for an "upgrade" ?? Mystically 99% of the owners yelling "my cartridge is better than the original", but only a few can actually compare an original cartridge and another refurbished sample not by faulty memories, but in real time. We often see a refurbished cartridges for sale for some reason.
It also make me laugh when audiophiles claiming they are able to hear a tiny the difference in VTA or VTF or micron difference in cartridge alignment, or even a f*****g fuse (omg), but not able to hear an entirely different cantilever/stylus mounted by some third-party vendor on a bench at his garage on some ultra high-end cartridge from world famous cartridge designer who used exclussive parts for his cart, voiced and tuned accordingly after a years of try and errors.
Read an old J.Carr’s comment and learn a bit:
Changing only the stylus will alter the sound less than if the cantilever material is changed. When a cartridge is designed, the designer will consider the moving mass (sum of the stylus, cantilever and coils), the resonant character of the cantilever, and the (sonic) propagation velocity of the cantilever (affected by the cantilever’s mass and rigidity), then choose the suspension and dampers accordingly. If you change the cantilever material, you are effectively throwing the original designer’s calculations away.
There is much more (far more than what I have written above) to rebuilding a cartridge than affixing a new stylus or altering the cantilever. In over 30 years of involvement in the phono cartridge industry, I have not seen one retipper who has presented the entire story, who has effectively said "Here are the all of the considerations. Here are the cons as well as the pros. Make a wise choice that is best for you".
To retip a cartridge that was originally equipped with a stylus made by one manufacturer with one made by a different manufacturer is like rebuilding a Porsche engine with Jaguar pistons and crankshaft - the components used for rebuilding may be of high quality, but the design philosophy is rather different from the original.
I think that you will be extremely happy with your retipped Axia. You're retipping like for like with boron cantilever and as long as the stylus is similar in profile I very strongly doubt that you'll hear any difference, certainly any significant difference, from the way your Axia played before its demise.
And I also strongly feel that it will perform well above the level of any of your new options listed in your original post.
You should keep us posted when your cartridge returns from VAS.
Chakster I do not disagree with you But it maybe in this case that the oem cannot do anything for the OP with this cart if the report of death is correct.
Although maybe not ideal it may be the only option left in this case.
Not everyone has the love or trust for vintage carts as you do.
I have a few and pretty happy and comfortable with buying more and learning but it is not for all types.
Of course, but destroying ultra High-End cartridges (voiced by world’s best cartridge designers) with third-party vendors is not for everyone too. It’s like leaving your Porsche at Ford Car Service to replace the most important part in the engine with "something else" to say "ohh, that was cheaper and much better than the original". It could be a project, experiment or whatever, but definitely not the right way to treat ultra high-end cartridges. This is a compromise, nothing else.
If you’re getting a $2400 cartridge fixed for under $500 its $2000 cheaper than buying a new one.
If you’re sending your High-End cartridge to a third-party vendor you have no idea what you will get. You digits means nothing. If you can’t send a cartridge for rebuild to the original manufacturer (read a cartridge designer) why you’re buyin such expensive cartridge? Just to send it to third-party vendor ? I just don’t understand the logic, really. You want a US vendor to fix a Japanese cartridge from a well known designer ? If the original designer is available this is the best way to fix a cartridge if you really like the cartridge.
My rebuilts have sounded good or better than new.
I often read such comments on the forums, seems like a third-party service is always better than original cartridges voiced and tuned by legendary cartridge designers?
You’re free to believe in this BS, but you can ask any cartridge designer (if you can) why it’s not true, luckily we have Jonathan Carr on our forum and he explained why it’s not a good idea.
Your cartridge can be better than the original only if you’re upgrading an entry level cartridge with some better and more expensive parts such as cantilever and stylus tip.
I understand that it is not the original, but I am hoping it will sound better than any cartridge I could get for under $500.
Why do you think so ? Last year i’ve bought on ebay Dynavector 23RS MR with Ruby cantilever NOS and Dynavector KARAT 17DS MR with Diamond cantilever for about $500 each. Diamond is the most expensive and exotic cantilever. Both carts are fully original, both with MicroReach tips. Both are LOMC made in the 80’s.
The quality can be superb even for a relatively low price, you never know how cheap you can buy unused vintage cartridge online.
Instead you paid $500 just for the cantilever/stylus and repair fee. Of cource it’s up to you, but the price for repair job and materials is equal to the price of the new cartridge. I have no idea why people think that $500 for repair with third-party parts (not the original) is cheap in this case?
Hi folks, thanks for the further dialog. I did explore trying to get the cartridge repaired by Transfiguration, but I cannot get a response from them. Unfortunately, I have heard that Mr Seiji Yoshioka, the master crafter of Transfiguration cartridges, has died, which may make it impossible to repair. So, what to do with a cartridge that retails for $2450 that has a broken stylus? I can't afford a new one, but didn't want to give up on this one. I have sent it to Steve Leung at VAS. He is going to replace with a boron line contact cantilever. I understand that it is not the original, but I am hoping it will sound better than any cartridge I could get for under $500. I think it is also wise to acquire another new cartridge at some point as a backup and for comparison. I do want to stick with low output MC to pair with my EAR 834P. I will report back on how things go. It will be another 1-2 weeks before I get it back.
Yes, the story about VdH cartridge refurbidhed by VdH himself is a good example of my theory, because the SoundSmith or even less qualified retippers (there are a bunch of them around) in this case is the worst scenario for this High-End cartridge. VdH is using exclussive materials for his High-End cartridges. He's expensive, but you know why.
Trying completely different cartridge is also good idea, because there are many cartridges of any kind that we never tried yet.
I've had my Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood retipped twice, once by Soundsmith and once by Andy Kim. In both instances it seemed to perform and sound the same, but of course time passed and my audio memory isn't that great. It's true different materials were used. I think that some might consider the ability to choose a different cantilever material a plus.
I bought a used Van Den Hul cartridge that arrived with no diamond on the stylus. I sent that to Van Den Hul and not only did he retip it, he completely rebuilt it. Definitely a different level of work and done by the creator, A J Van Den Hul himself.
Can you expand on why you would suggest someone should buy a used cartridge over a retipped cartridge?
@big_greg
J.Carr explained it on this forum much better than me. But i will try again.
Just because you, me or anyone else have no idea about canculations made by the original cartridge designed for a certain high-end model - this is the reason why certain type of cantilever and stylus has been used (most of them are exclussively made for one particular brand and not available to anyone else, never ).
You can "upgrade" only cheap/average cartridges when you change one cantilever to another, or one stylus type to another. But your retipper can’t upgrade a state of the art high-end cartridge made by well knowd cartridge designers, just becase your retipped has no clue about many aspect of the original design, material and more important a calculation to match them together.
The right way to "retip" or "refurbish" a high-end cartridge is to send it to the original manufacturer and original designer who can work on it.
If you work on it with somebody else then you have no idea what you will get and it’s no longer an original cartridge. Maybe you will like it, maybe not, but this is not the original cartridge (cantilever, stylus mass, lengh, thickness can be way different compared to the original).
It’s funny when people are so concerned about cartridge alignment and micron difference between the protractors, vta or sra, but can accept a third-party cantilever or stylus instead of the original (sometimes unique) stylus/cantilever combo on their MC cartridges.
I don’t care what a honest retipper will tell me, i know that he does not have an access to the original materials available only to the original manufacturer. Also i’ve seen a pictures of retipped cartridges under microscope and compared them to the originals. The originals are way more accurate (or completely different).
And if we’re talking about just re-tip (on existing cantilever) then you will see the enormous amount of glue added by the retipper.
This is why i think it’s better to buy another cartridge NEW or LIGHTLY USED if the cost of the retip/refurbish by the original manufacturer is too much for a user.
So many great MC or MM cartridges available on the market for under $1k (new or used), this is why i think an OP could simply try another cartridge made by well known designer.
Hello Rick, just buy yourself a new cartridge (or lightly used one), do not bother with re-tippers, buy exactly what cartridge designed is made. Do you know the effective mass of your tonearm to select a cartridge ?
The Absolute Sound review comparing the $249 Audio-Technica VM540ML against the $649 VM760SLC to be nearly equivalent in performance, not just in technical detail, but in communication of emotional content.
I have reached out to both Steve @ VAS and Andy at
phonocartridgeretipping.com and both have indicated they can replace with a boron cantilever. Do any of you have experience with both? Are they on par with quality and service?
Regarding future protection, I may try to craft a cartridge cover that is easier to put on than the one that came with it, but also look into a new plexi cover that will fit the JMW 10 tonearm. Any one out there have a cover that might fit that they would swap for the one I have that fits a VPI Scout with 9 in arm?
tomic601 no jinx, just good karma :-). I will def use cardboard as a defense on cleaning days if I don't have anything else.
w our housekeeper or nephews I have a layered yet also not riskless defense system, first I use the Lyra clear slide on cover w care!!! then I have a precut to fit cardboard barrier that I slide under front of table and tape to shelf above w blue painters tape. FRAGILE written on it.
I've been hearing transfiguration might be gone now. (Unconfirmed). There are some real challengers to the Axia but I also think 'someone' should have it repaired even if you decide to try something new....
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