Bi Wiring for speakers question

Jim, this link:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/to-bi-wire-or-not-2

@curiousjim
How exactly did you wire up your speakers?  Does your amplifier have one or two sets of binding posts?

Kalali, Is this the link you suggested?

https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/

Interesting read, but other than not using the gold plated steel connectors that came with the speakers (From other articles), I can't figure out how using two runs of a smaller gauge wire twisted at one end is any better than what I did.  I will say that I wired from the Tweeters down, if that matters.

JD

Thanks hifiman5,

I have some good 12 guage speaker wire that I ran through both sets of connects.  Works like a charm.

kalali, I'll check out the lead.

JD

jim, there's another thread a few inches below "to bi-wire or not" and there's more how to information in that thread. Its very simple. 
Good luck and enjoy your new speakers.

@curiousjim  If you read this entire thread I think you'll know what you need to know.

Hey all,

I'm new to this party, having just  bought a new to me pair of speakers, that bi-wired. Can someone give me the dummys guide to the how to and why to?
FYI, the speakers are Klispch RF 35's, for the basement 2.1 setup.

Thanks.

JD

@will62   Amen brother!😇

BTW.  Have another problem.  My Denon PMA 520 is now acting up again.  Lost a channel and have also had dropouts on the one that still works.  Since I've now spent over $250 on this thing I am thinking it is best to replace it with something new.  Buying used stereo gear unless it is from a reputable shop, is a crap shoot.

BFA then works OK with my speakers.  The one's that came with the BJC look like Interconnects with a fat tip.  Tried turning the collars all the way out but that still didn't work.  These things won't fit my speakers at all.  Will see what Wayne at BJC thinks I should do.  I am inclined to just cut the Banana's off and use bare wires at this point.  Same with the Pin's as well.  But I want to see what he thinks.  

@will62 ,
If they look like a banana with saw teeth then I think they are called BFA banana plugs. I had them on some Transparent speaker cable and they were very brittle and prone to snapping.
B

I was hanging out in a local audio "salon" talking about cables when a dude at the shop pointed out that Bill Low (Audioquest honcho) was standing right behind me. HA…I told him I’d recently been using his Type 8 that I’d terminated as a biwire cable, and he pointed out that something like his Rocket 33 (which he grabbed off the shelf to show to me), has the cable groupings separated and works better for biwire applications as there’s less magnetic interaction…or something…anyway, it made sense, so I got a pair of Rockets and they sound great. Bananas all around since they don't require binding post clamping (I do use spades here and there….mostly to attach my REL cables to the same posts as the main speaker cables on the amp).

Turns out the connectors are not what I expected.  Apparently they are locking Banana's.  They don't look like any other Banana's I've seen before.  Will try to get them to fit this weekend.  I may have to use bare wire or standard Banana's if these don't fit.

There 'ya go...
B

Just hooked up the Type 4 sets to my OM 10's and the Denon PMA520. Wonderful sound and a great pairing.  Better match than the Yamaha A500 amp which plays better with the Castle Conway 3 towers.  

I am going to get a replacement for it and hope the next one is made correctly.  I've read some good things about their cables and hope this time around they get it right.

I would call BJC and tell them your situation. From what I have heard, they are a stand up company. It's always disappointing when things like this happen, but they do. 
So, just give them the benefit of the doubt. The only way you are going to know if they are your 'cuppa' is to try them. If they aren't, then onto Plan B.
Bob

gdnrbob.  I gave my AQ Type 4 with the spade lugs to a friend.  Even though I bought the cable with the larger spade lugs they still were too small for the Mirage OM 10's and Castle Conway 3 speakers.  Not sure why but they would still not fit.  Too small.

Have since found Banana's work on the OM 10's.  They had some kind of plastic insert with a small hole inside where the cables connect.  One problem solved now that I can use Banana's on both pairs of speakers.  No point in trying spades again the way I see it.

Debating now if I should just return the BJC and get a replacement cable or buy something else somewhere else.  The broken pin doesn't have me as pissed off as putting the wrong connector on the other side.  Fatter than a Banana and looks a little like an IC but it won't fit an RCA female connector when tried.

Any ideas?  Should I try another speaker cable manufacture or is this bad QC simply a fluke?

Well, my BJC Belden 5000 10 gauge just came out of the box.  Disappointed.  Have found a broken pin and worse, the connector on one cable for the speaker side, which is supported to have a Banana plug on it is something different.  Won't fit.  The other cable is fine but clearly this other cable didn't pass QC yet somehow managed to find its way to me.  Will have to send it back and hope the replacement is correct.

Yep different brand cables work beautifully for me.

@will62 ,
You do know you can get some Banana to spade convertors?
I use these when I have to. 
https://www.amazon.com/CARDAS-Premium-Speaker-Adapter-Connectors/dp/B00SG3Z922
Reading you post, I think this is what you are looking for:
https://www.amazon.com/Locking-Stacking-Carbonate-Insulated-Thumbscrew/dp/B00O3NTB28/ref=sr_1_1?s=el...

B

hifiman.  Thanks.  Yeah, I don't understand that advice either.  Will stick with the tried and true method of using the same kind of cable.  

gdnrbob.  Yes, I've already bi wired them to my system when I had the Castle Conway 3's paired to the Denon 520 amp.  But since both ends of the wires are Banana's I have to get new cables to match up the Denon with the Mirage OM 10's which only take Pins since the Spades never fit.  And the Yamaha A500 which also takes Pins but not Banana's will be matched to the Castle's with a new pair with Pins and Banana's.

Just bought a single pair of the BJC Belden 5000 cable to see how that sounds.  Will buy a second set to Bi Wire if they sound good.  Will likely get AQ again for the next set for the other system.

+1 Hifiman. 
Keep it simple Will. The AQ GO 4 is a reasonably priced cable and should not cost a fortune to do a true biwire. Just try to keep the lengths equal and as short as practically possible. And, add a little wiggle room for minor adjustments. Nothing is more frustrating than having to move a whole cabinet of equipment just to get to some cables.
B

@will62  Never run different brands or cable topologies when biwiring.  You want the same cables for both biwire runs.  If not you risk defeating one of the primary objectives of a biwire designed speaker...that of optimizing the function the speaker's crossover network by presenting the music signal to both parts of the crossover in concert.

Separate brands?  In other words, use AQ Type 4 for one speaker and some other brand for the other speaker?  Or do I use one brand for the high end and the other brand for the low end?  Sounds odd.

You should get even better results running seperate brands of Speaker Cables.

When I installed four pairs of AQ Type 4 into my system, I noted a big improvement in the bass in my Castle Conway 3 speakers.  I put on the album Love Beach by Emerson, Lake and Palmer as a test.  Has some very low bass notes in a couple of the songs.  My Mirage OM 10's could always play them even when not bi wired but the Castle's were not.  After bi wiring I could suddenly hear bass notes on that album on the Castle's that previously were unheard.  Overall the sound is much better than with two pairs of cables.

I've had great success running seperate brands of cables from the 2 binding posts on each Mono Block to Speakers. Allows you to run a seperate cable better suited for bass and seperate cable better suited for mid's/ highs.

+1 @elizabeth   Richard Vandersteen, one of the foremost proponents of "true biwiring", will always implore owners of his speakers to run two separate cables of same geometry.  His read on this topic is that you cannot reap all of biwiring benefits if both cable runs are within the same jacket (too much interaction between different strands of cable.

There is a consensus that biwire within a single cable is not as much of an improvement as using two separate cables, one for upper range, one for lower range.

 
@elizabeth ,
I disagree, respectfully.
B

Joe Levy, over at Tempo Electric came up with a great solution for my bi-wire set up on my JBL 4319 monitors. Since he sells single, solid core silver cables, with no terminations (unless you want them), he recommended making the jacket about 3" shorter than usual on one end so I can attach them to both posts of the speaker. That way, there's no possibility of mismatched cables, wires, connectors, etc. 

He brought it up when I mentioned what I'm presently using. Apparently, that's his go-to solution for all of his customers. KISS is now something I won't take for granted anymore. I'll post here again if I hear an improvement (in about three weeks).

All the best,
Nonoise

yup.  Bought those Erik.  They didn't work with either pair and neither did the regular size.  Not sure why but I am not going to try to force them into the connectors.  

They do make "extra wide" spades Will, if you must have them. :)

Spades don't fit my Castle Conway 3 Speakers nor my Mirage OM 10 speakers.  Go figure.  Tried them but they will not fit.

Buying 4 separate cables would be the best way, in my opinion.
AQ cables are awesome. I too have the GO -4. Great value for the money.
Is there a reason for using the banana's instead of spades?
B

@will62   Use spades if you can.  Once again gdnrbob is exactly right.  You can really secure spades to the binding posts.  If there is any tension placed on your cables it can exert pressure on bananas to pull out of the binding post.

Bob.  Thanks for the info.

I have a two pairs of AQ Type 4 cables purchased separately that I use for one system. True bewaring as you call it.  

Going to buy a new set for my second system though I have been reading about the BJC Canare cables being excellent for the cost.  I have the option of buying four bananas and four pins with four cables or could purchase four of one and two of the other as well.  The 4 by 4 configuration does seem to be a true bi wire wire while the other method of using 4 on one side but 2 on the other does not.  

To be safe I may just order four separate cables to insure it is the same kind of wiring that I have with my first system.

Yes, you have the connection pattern correct.
And, yes, it does make a difference. Richard Vandersteen makes his floorstanders with biwire connections. Essentially, you are directly providing a signal to the upper range drivers separately from the lower range.
Reading your post again, I should add that you can also connect by using 2 separate runs of speaker cable, so that the upper and lowers are using a separate cable. This is called 'true biwire' and is probably the best way to connect a biwire-able speaker.
Also, using spades, even stacked spades would be more desirable than banana plugs, as they provide better contact.
Bob