My philosophy is that if the sonic signature of an audio item does not suit you right out of the box, no amount of burn in is going to make such a huge difference where you will change your mind. I’m not saying, things will not open up or improve. Heck, you may learn to like it. However, the general, major sonic qualities should be present from day 1.
Some cable companies should offer replacement tubes. By the time you burn their cables in, you’ll need to change out tubes (tic).
I believe in burn in. However, some companies use it as an excuse to talk people out of returning their products.
ketcham
Does anyone here have thoughts on cable cookers to expedite the process of burn in?
Glad you asked. Cables do improve with burn in. Everything does. And will improve equally well whether its music you're playing or hooked up to a cooker.
The question is, why bother? Everything I have heard either sounds good right out of the box, or it doesn't. Nothing that sounds bad ever turns around and magically becomes good after a hundred hours. Sounds good, then sounds even better? Sure. But if it doesn't sound good right away don't waste your time, send it back right away. Any cable worth the money, it will sound good right away, and then as you listen it will only sound better, and better, and better. Usually so fast you can hear the changes happening even during the first few minutes. This goes for everything by the way, not just cables but speakers, phono cartridges, amps, tubes... everything.
This whole idea of patiently waiting hundreds of hours for something to sound good is a sham some people get away with because so many others haven't figured out this simple fact.
Does anyone here have thoughts on cable cookers to expedite the process of burn in?
Different cables bring different qualities and our subjective interpretations are varied as are the systems and environment the cables are placed. Cables like any gear may be of benefit or not. This does not mean any one of us is right or wrong, the cable design is either a good fit or not.
Like finding a mate, some cables may be more popular but that one-off may be the best fit of all.
I found positive results with ZL Technology and am approaching a replacement loom. They are based out of Korea and designed by Kang Su Park of Allnic Audio.
I haven't changed my components for 13 years and one, 30 years (SME IV). I have modified my preamp and amps slightly and installed an SR blue fuse. I've also had Hallographs for 15+ years and latest Stillpoints for about 7 years. The SR products and Perfect Path tweaks were added recently. Only the cabling has been upgraded as I am a beta tester for a manufacturer. I don't have SOTA equipment, but I have very musical equipment that doesn't need endless upgrading. I am happy with them.
It’s a little bit dangerous IMHO to ascribe up and down changes of break-in or even *any* changes over a period of time due to the fact that most audiophiles are continually adding, changing or deleting cables, equipment, room treatments or tweaks, not to mention all the other variables that affect sound. - day vs night, day of the week, weather, and things that uh, go bump in the night.
Geoffkait - I never said that I would endeavor to cook a cable for 500 hours. Someone on the forum posted that it could take that long. I thought that was ridiculous as you did.
I am satisfied with 24 hours on the cables I audition. Sometimes I allow an IC it to stay plugged in on a full band radio station with classical and rock for 5 days, especially on cables from other manufacturers. I don't use a cable cooker. However, just allowing a cable to play for 6 to 8 hours often yields superior results. For A/C cables, they get plugged into a frig for a day or two. They also usually sound quick good after 8 hours in an audio system only.
(The corollary is that inadequate cables don't sound good regardless of the time they spend cooking). Enter your text ...
I'm not trying to be completely negative or insulting concerning this subject. However, I am always interested in new advancements in audio. Cables included. I think comments positive or negative are a good balance to subjects that are controversial. I realize most posters here have made up their minds on this subject. However, people new to this hobby have not. Perhaps reading some opposing views will help them understand they need to do more than just casual listening to help make the correct choice for themselves.
Geoffkait - I never said that I would endeavor to cook a cable for 500 hours. Someone on the forum posted that it could take that long. I thought that was ridiculous as you did.
I am satisfied with 24 hours on the cables I audition. Sometimes I allow an IC it to stay plugged in on a full band radio station with classical and rock for 5 days, especially on cables from other manufacturers. I don't use a cable cooker. However, just allowing a cable to play for 6 to 8 hours often yields superior results. For A/C cables, they get plugged into a frig for a day or two. They also usually sound quick good after 8 hours in an audio system only.
(The corollary is that inadequate cables don't sound good regardless of the time they spend cooking).
"Prove it?" Would't go there. You may challenged to pick out high end cable with the lights off. Better yet, pick out the same high end cable with various levels of burn in times. You are correct, talk is cheap.
Fleschler, let me cut to the chase, if you don’t mind too much. The Audiodharma Cable Cooker breaks in cables and power cords in two days. The break in track on the XLO CD takes a little longer, but nowhere near your (ridiculous) number of 500 hours. Besides nobody sits around listening to his cables break in for days on end nor do they generally break them in continuously - an oft overlooked, detail. I mean, come on, do you think audiophiles really sit around listening to their cables break in? For hundreds of hours?
No matter how much you have in the end you would have had even more if you had started out with more. 😀
Thanks for sharing your comments. Internet trolls have no place on these forums, they are in need of a life. I've done documented breakin for over 3 weeks non-stop playing of the same recording. I've been doing this style of breakin and referencing for well over 30 years.
As for the people that can't hear breakin...well...I guess they can't hear it. Nothing more can be said about it. For those of us who have mastered the art of burnin and the maturing of audio parts and pieces, it's a fun adventure.
One would think in a hobby of change one would enjoy the process but many of our fellow listeners have never made it beyond instant coffee. They sit on the sidelines and cheer or heckle but never get into the game. Their loss.
Geoffkait You know I’ve been a beta tester for almost 2 decades for a cable manufacturer. I’ve tested 100s of cables, just a few dozen of his competitors HEA stuff (High Fidelity, Transparent, Nordost, Audioquest, Mogami, Magnan, Monster and Tara Labs come to mind).
Yes, good after 24 hours is if it is a good sounding cable. Horrible if it is something like High Fidelity cables. Sometimes I let my beta cables burn in for five days. If they still sound bad or wrong, I indicate that. If it turns out to be an excellent cable, it sounds "good" or excellent after 24 hours of burn-in. You just have to nit pick everything I write.
As to the Black SR fuse, I have several systems I used them with. Unfortunately, after the initial 10 to 12 hours of enjoying the significant improvement compared to stock fuses, they haphazardly sounded wrong and not musically enjoyable until the 72 hour mark. It happened on three systems. Maybe your mileage is different. I am reporting what I heard.
As to not wanting to wait 500 hours for a cable to burn-in, I am sticking to that. It’s my choice not to have to wait 3 weeks of continuous signal passing through a cable to be able to enjoy it (those High Fidelity cables had several months in my friends system).
I was at a HEA audio salon meeting and commenting on how horrible the Magnapans sounded (3.7 and 20.7). I heard the 3.7 sound excellent (another pair) there previously. What the store owner failed to tell us is that the speakers were brand new and not broken in as well as the Shunyata cabling. Yuk, what a messy sound that was. Yes, speakers require a break-in period which can be significant. Funny that sometimes they do not require more than a cartridge breakin time before they do sound excellent. It is component/speaker/cable dependent.
I’ve been burning in a set of used Cardas Golden Presence RCA interconnects. I’m at 60 hrs.
The sound is exponentially better than when first connected.
These replaced a set of Parsec. These GP are a significant upgrade from the Parsec. The Parsec were a significant upgrade from my old Audioquest Topaz.
I think you need the right components, cables & recording to really get the significant increase. I think many of the naysayers have a limiting factor in their system.
"I wouldn't want to purchase a cable that required 500 hours of use just as I hate it that so many speakers require 100s of hours to break in"
HEA probably shouldn't have stuck it's nose into physics to begin with. It's a weird little hobby full of folks who want "short term" prove it's sometimes blinding itself from the ongoing facts of nature. Putting break in times on anything audio is fools gold to begin with. "Audio" doesn't break in in 30 days, it matures in age just like everything else does in a universe of motion. HEA treats audio like a "Fixed" absolute, when in reality it's a huge variable.
HEA has created it's own little bubble and battles to stay inside of it, as the world matures around us, moving forward. It's like a time capsule for almost engineers. You know guys, an EE is not the same as a Physics Engineer, and an EE or PE that doesn't understood aging is not all that bright in a discussion about motion.
I guess the oddest part about visiting here sometimes is seeing so many who view Earth as sitting still with everything revolving around it, not being able to see that we are in motion among everything else in motion.
As for me, I wouldn't purchase a cable unless I understood cables.
fleschler758 posts02-24-2019 4:12amMy experiences with dozens of cables indicate that they tend to sound good within 24 hours of use.
>>>>>Define good. No one is saying they sound horrible right away. Besides, wouldn’t it depend on the system and the user. Your numbers seem way too low. They appear to be outliers. No offense. If those numbers were correct Bob Crump wouldn’t have gone to the trouble of breaking in all his TG Audio cables and power cords for a month prior to shipping. And there would be no reason for the Cable Cooker or the Burn In Track on the XLO Test CD, the latter of which requires a minimum of two weeks.
This is also relative to the manufacture of the cables. I didn’t notice any difference in Monster cables from the 1980s. GroverHuffman cables can sound good within 6 to 8 hours of use but really settle in after about a days use.
>>>>>>>Define good. No one is saying they sound horrible right away. Besides, wouldn’t it depend on the system and the user?
Same problem with fuses. The SR Black fuse took 72 hours to burn in and sound acceptable in several of my systems.
>>>>>>>>Define acceptable. That’s a pretty broad term.
The SR Blue fuse sounded excellent immediately and just got better over time. The SR black duplex sounded good immediately and similarly just got better over time.
>>>>>>Everyone agrees about that.
I wouldn’t want to purchase a cable that required 500 hours of use just as I hate it that so many speakers require 100s of hours to break in (especially those with berrillium tweeters).
>>>>>No one is saying cables require 500 hours to break in. As for speakers, the drivers alone take many months to break in. You can’t fool Mother Nature. There’s no short cut to Nirvana.
My experiences with dozens of cables indicate that they tend to sound good within 24 hours of use. This is also relative to the manufacture of the cables. I didn't notice any difference in Monster cables from the 1980s. GroverHuffman cables can sound good within 6 to 8 hours of use but really settle in after about a days use.
Same problem with fuses. The SR Black fuse took 72 hours to burn in and sound acceptable in several of my systems. The SR Blue fuse sounded excellent immediately and just got better over time. The SR black duplex sounded good immediately and similarly just got better over time.
I wouldn't want to purchase a cable that required 500 hours of use just as I hate it that so many speakers require 100s of hours to break in (especially those with berrillium tweeters).
So I’ll keep this short. I would love for someone to show me the science behind the “burning” in of your cables. Perhaps I don’t have the ear that some of you claim to have with all of your whimsical descriptions of sound however I can’t possibly believe that there is some mystical metallurgical process occurring with these low electrical currents.
I'll keep this short. No one serious about science has any need for name-calling. (Whimsical, mystical.)
Thank you....but I am very well aware that different dielectrics have varying properties when different signals are applied... we can throw in temperature for all matters of this discussion as well. What we are hearing is very subjective. I’ve seen some horrible cabling (and it was not high end wire) in high end electronics which sounded great in my opinion. What might sound good to you may not sound so good to me. There is a point of no return on the cost. Sorry ...tough to hear the time or cost of burn in.
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